fwki Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 ....but this is what the "near-to" historic areas are going to look like from now on....True, unless your block jumped on the Minimum Lot Size bandwagon....then you end up with million-dollar SFH's mingling with modest historicals sitting on very valuable land until the last holdout cashes in. Swamplot has these annual progressive maps of the lot-size ordinance blocks.......http://swamplot.com/where-houstons-lot-size-restrictions-went-year-by-year/2010-09-09/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksmu Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I am a fan of the minimum lot size restrictions. I like new development, but I don't like to see micro lots. New development is good for property values....townhomes, not so much....4400 should be the minimum. That is a tiny lot....I dont support the way historic ordinances were passed, but I have not seen the same resentment or cowardly tactics used to pass minimum lot sizes. They are a good compromise in protecting a block from being over developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 True, unless your block jumped on the Minimum Lot Size bandwagon....then you end up with million-dollar SFH's mingling with modest historicals sitting on very valuable land until the last holdout cashes in. Swamplot has these annual progressive maps of the lot-size ordinance blocks.......http://swamplot.com/...ear/2010-09-09/Unless the City made your block an historical district before you cashed in. In that case, you live in a "modest historical" surrounded by new 3500 sf homes, with no opportunity to ever cash in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwki Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Unless the City made your block an historical district before you cashed in....O crap......didn't know that abomination could still attack Norhill from the south. Hopefully the developers we keep up the pace until we're out of the danger zone. I wonder how many more historicals we have to kill off before the threat wanes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heightslurker Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 Is it even worth doing a major home renovation/addition in the heights anymore? Is it too early to tell what the historic districts will do to our home values? We'd like to move forward with a renovation but we are already hitting an HAHC road block.....it's like they want us to live in the 1930's while our neighbors a few feet away are enjoying luxuries like proper insulation, double insulated windows, or god forbid...low maintenance siding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJxvi Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 How dare you challenge the authenticity of the neighbiorhood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwki Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 or the authenticity of your insulation! And we aren't really enjoying all our new stuff, that's your imagination running wild. The carbon guilt is so painful, I'm trading down to a Smart Car that runs on methane from your cracked sewer pipe. Plus I won't be a threat anymore to strollers and joggers at 11th and Heights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Is it even worth doing a major home renovation/addition in the heights anymore? Is it too early to tell what the historic districts will do to our home values? We'd like to move forward with a renovation but we are already hitting an HAHC road block.....it's like they want us to live in the 1930's while our neighbors a few feet away are enjoying luxuries like proper insulation, double insulated windows, or god forbid...low maintenance siding...Have you actually been denied? What particular renovations have been denied? What "suggestions" have been made by the HAHC board?While the historic restrictions will undoubtedly exert a slight downward pressure on prices within the historic district (in relation to properties without the encumbrance), a renovation that increases the square footage of the home will still increase in value, due to the fact that price per square foot is the metric for comparison. Therefore, a 1250 square foot house may be valued at $250,000, or $200 psf, but an addition that increases the square footage to 1750 square feet will likely be valued at $350,000 at the minimum. Since most additions cost well under $200 psf to construct, you will still see a profit on the addition. It just will not be as high as it might have been without the historic restriction. You also will have the aesthetic problem of designing an addition to fit the rules, as opposed to blending in with the existing structure (HAHC and its supporters are architectural retards).If your addition only adds to the back or side of the house, and is only one story, you can generally avoid the ugly requirements of the ordinance and HAHC. Of course, this limits the size of the addition, and therefore, increase in property value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heights_yankee Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Is it even worth doing a major home renovation/addition in the heights anymore? Is it too early to tell what the historic districts will do to our home values? We'd like to move forward with a renovation but we are already hitting an HAHC road block.....it's like they want us to live in the 1930's while our neighbors a few feet away are enjoying luxuries like proper insulation, double insulated windows, or god forbid...low maintenance siding...Here is something you can read. It's not definitive but optimistic for the HDs.http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/cven04/Leichenko-%20Historic%20Preservation.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heightslurker Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 heights yankee, thanks for that...interesting read..redscare, yes, a denial (technically not officially...yet), yes there were suggestions. i hate to go into too many details because it's still an open matter. our plan is fine but we are getting into issues with materials and age (or lack there of) of the materials, etc...there is an appeal process available, first to the planning commission (and then later to city council). When i reviewed the agenda and minutes (planning commission) on those meetings (back to about 2009) i was surprised at how FEW appeals there actually where. Why? Are there more behind the scenes negotiations going on? are people just giving up? I dug up one anecdote of a family just moving out of the historic district after their denial...or maybe there aren't that many denials from the hahc to begin with....(probably some things are hashed out) Anyway, few official appeals (like a few a year at most?) and a lot of them resulted in reversing the HAHC ruling...so that's good news, at least.....a more sensible bunch of people it seems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 lurker.It used to be that replacing wood siding with Hardiplank was approved without comment. It sounds like that may have changed. As long as the replacement windows were the same size as the original, those were approved, as well. It is possible that things have suddenly tightened up. That would suck, since the pro-HD people said that would never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJxvi Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood where the thief or peeping tom walking into someones yard from the back alley would be able to tell that they had replaced the old original windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barracuda Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I would appeal if it's an issue of hardiplank siding. It's unreasonable to expect homeowners to install and maintain wood siding in this climate. I've replaced asbestos shingles with hardiplank and have even installed energy-efficient low-e vinyl windows with HCAD approval. However, the siding was in the rear of the house and on the garage (street-facing side), so that may have helped with the approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heightslurker Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 just discovered this video of a january 2012 meeting of the HAHC for anyone interested (haven't found if they are all online or just this one):http://houstontx.city.swagit.com/play/02012012-101/0/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stWardDude Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 wow - I watched the whole first segment of that video. That commmittee is filled with morons. But then again, its the City of Houston so completely expected incompetence.So glad I just bought 2 blocks outside the HD in the Heights. Complete DEMO this summer Also - its hilarious the committee is worried about every single piece of siding. I personally can't believe the builder in the video wasn't pushing for all hardiplank. I would never buy a wood siding house in houston.I don't know the history of the district and what foresight the city council had, but the resulting backloaded bungalows from the ordinance rules look ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverJK Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't know the history of the district and what foresight the city council had, but the resulting backloaded bungalows from the ordinance rules look ridiculous.Be glad you don't, it would only irritate you to no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heightslurker Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Anyone have any first hand experience applying for and receiving the city's "historic site tax exemption":http://www.houstontx...v/historic.htmlThe work performed must be at a cost of at least 50% of the assessed taxable value of the historic structure or improvements (not land value). The owner shall demonstrate to the Finance Department Director that qualifying expenditures were made for R&P purposes.There are so many variables in the equation. There is so much interpretation as to what counts as money spent towards Restoration and Preservation (as i've found out with dealing with the HAHC).Guess what? the city has no guidelines. I've asked. Each property is evaluated individually. So, there is no way to tell ahead of time if spending all the money on your house will get you this exemption. Which I can't even tell if it's worth it or just something that sounds nice when people ask, "historic district? what's in it for me?"Is it worth it? What work on your house did they consider Restoration or Preservation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't waste time with the City. I find my time much more valuably spent explaining to HCAD that the historic district designation depresses overall land and structure value, which saves money across the board, not just city taxes.I was successful in doing this last year, and intend to do it again this year. HCAD is very receptive to the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannomad Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 "The work performed must be at a cost of at least 50% of the assessed taxable value of the historic structure or improvements (not land value)." That's quite a bit of costly work just to even think about qualifying. "If" you did qualify you would then only get a break of 1.1567% on the value of the new improvements, not taking into consideration that the percentage difference would be even lower with a homestead exemption. If you are going to do the work anyway then it may be worth it, but it's not like the city is going to pay the cost of the improvements. My guess would be this is geared more for well-connected investors of high dollar commercial properties. With millions of dollars at stake, and it being solely a business endeavor, those numbers start to make more sense. I believe the majority of properties with this exemption currently are commercial buildings in and around downtown.For the typical homeowner it may soften your tax bill a bit, but it's not going to make a huge difference. My opinion from how I interpreted the city’s website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heightslurker Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Redscare- true, true...Urbannomad- thanks...i hadn't gotten so far as to figure out what 50% (or 100%) would even do to my overall taxes...the bottom-line...that was my next step..(of course, now i'm realizing that should have been my first step) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't waste time with the City. I find my time much more valuably spent explaining to HCAD that the historic district designation depresses overall land and structure value, which saves money across the board, not just city taxes.I was successful in doing this last year, and intend to do it again this year. HCAD is very receptive to the argument.This was easier before there were actual sales in the actual historic districts. I had a little slideshow for the panel describing the limitations on my house.I put my house on the Protected Landmark list (My choice, my hit on valuation. You may recall that if your house is a "Protected" landmark, you need city council approval for modification or demolition. If it is just a "landmark" you just need to wait 90 days) several years ago.Now our neighborhood is a Historic District, and there are several sales that (sadly) justify close to the HCAD value. I took the iSettle offer (about 2% below what they offered in the first place)IT will be interesting to see the lasting effects of the Historic District designation(edit: corrected designation name.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/HistoricPres/docs_pdfs/histpres_benefits_brochure.pdfthis is a better publication from CoH on the tax exemption. The 50% is on the tax assessed value on just the building. HCAD values on the buildings is usually very low compared to the land on the older heights houses. My 1920 bungalow is something like 60k for the building and 200k+ for the land. So, I would need to do at least $30k to get the exemption. You can use both exterior and interior work to qualify. So, it would take a decent amount of work to get in, but not a huge project. Maybe a bed and a bath. And you can get the exemption for up to 15 years. Add in the fact that your tax assessment will go up when you add sq ft and the exemption may be more than enough money to make it worth the city bureaucracy. You can't win if you don't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 http://www.houstontx...ts_brochure.pdfthis is a better publication from CoH on the tax exemption. The 50% is on the tax assessed value on just the building. HCAD values on the buildings is usually very low compared to the land on the older heights houses. My 1920 bungalow is something like 60k for the building and 200k+ for the land. So, I would need to do at least $30k to get the exemption. You can use both exterior and interior work to qualify. So, it would take a decent amount of work to get in, but not a huge project. Maybe a bed and a bath. And you can get the exemption for up to 15 years. Add in the fact that your tax assessment will go up when you add sq ft and the exemption may be more than enough money to make it worth the city bureaucracy. You can't win if you don't play.You are probably not aware of this, but you just described a situation wherein you will save a grand total of $76.65 per year on your taxes. That amount of "savings" would not even reimburse me for the time spent begging the City to grant me the exemption. But, your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heights_yankee Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 lurker.It used to be that replacing wood siding with Hardiplank was approved without comment. It sounds like that may have changed. As long as the replacement windows were the same size as the original, those were approved, as well. It is possible that things have suddenly tightened up. That would suck, since the pro-HD people said that would never happen.If he lives in the Norhill HD, window materials have always been a very real concern (if they are visible from the street). Our addition has vinyl windows but the rest of the house has wood windows. In Norhill, only wood or vinyl clad wood have been approved for the 8 years I have lived here. I don't know about the other, newer HDs but this is the case in our HD. Hardiplank has been approved on a case by case basis but it has always had to mimic the sizing of the original wood, meaning not the big, wide boards you see on new construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heightslurker Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Or if you have 117 siding (tear drop), then you have no chance of being able to use Hardi.......If he lives in the Norhill HD, window materials have always been a very real concern (if they are visible from the street). Our addition has vinyl windows but the rest of the house has wood windows. In Norhill, only wood or vinyl clad wood have been approved for the 8 years I have lived here. I don't know about the other, newer HDs but this is the case in our HD. Hardiplank has been approved on a case by case basis but it has always had to mimic the sizing of the original wood, meaning not the big, wide boards you see on new construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesw Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 At the planning meetings that I attended Marlene Gaffrick SPECIFICALLY said that because of public comment during the comment period "cementitious siding" would be approved in the historic districts. If the commission is now no longer approving it I would either show them the transcripts or video from the public meetings.CheersJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heightslurker Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Ok, I won't say they never approve of Hardi. I'm just saying it's not a case of a homeowner saying, "i would like to put hardi on my house" and the HAHC saying "ok, go ahead". Definitely not the case for our house.I would love to know what their formula for giving the green light on Hardi, is. Does there need to be a certain percentage of house with rotten wood boards? Does it make a difference if the house is contributing, partially contributing or non contributing? (on the video I posted, they did appear to make different decision based on Partially contributing and contributing properties). Do they take into account style of existing siding?It's clear as mud, as far as I'm concerned....At the planning meetings that I attended Marlene Gaffrick SPECIFICALLY said that because of public comment during the comment period "cementitious siding" would be approved in the historic districts. If the commission is now no longer approving it I would either show them the transcripts or video from the public meetings.CheersJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksmu Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 It's clear as mud, as far as I'm concerned....If you go back to the original topic on this Historic District BS you will see that one of the chief complaints about the whole ordinance was the absolute broad/inclusive language allowing the HAHC to have wide latitude in making decisions....It was brought up then that the HAHC would be able to act without any real set of rules and thus would be rife with abuse....friends of the HAHC are more likely to get special treatment than people who just want to not be bothered....its not at all inconceivable that two identical houses would have completely different approvals based on the ownership....there are no concrete guidelines....its totally upto the HAHC and how they feel the day they hear your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwki Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 ...HAHC ...would be rife with abuse....friends of the HAHC are more likely to get special treatment....there are no concrete guidelines....its totally upto the HAHC and how they feel the day they hear your case.Ok, I see how this is playing out. The path of least reisistance is to make "friends" with certain members of the HAHC since it was set up that way. Then make sure that they "feel good" on the day of your hearing. This is a Louisiana-style commission with certain "Napoleonic Code" rules. What will really help us with our Hardi problem is to find out exactly who on the HAHC is needing a little friendship. Then have a "friend of the court" contractor work it out for us. Let's start naming names and play the game.Let's say I want to put up a convention center hotel in Norhill, with whom should I make contact? Bring pressure on these hooligans with sunlight disinfectant. Or is this just random abuse foisted by idiots pretending to be historians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJxvi Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 If you're new, you might be OK, but certain posters here have alreadyseemed to indicate that the time for retribution had come for opposing the ordinace... (kidding...i think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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