Port of Dallas Developments

[713 To 214]

http://cbs11tv.com/video/?id=11006@ktvt.dayport.com

[2112]

http://cbs11tv.com/video/?id=11006@ktvt.dayport.com

Yea, I saw that the other week and thought it was funny, especially the part about the "Port".

[MidtownCoog]

Looks like HMS Laura Miller is sailing off into the sunset.

It has been totally mytical experience, babe.

Now who am I going to make fun of?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...an/4053517.html

[Willy1]

Looks like HMS Laura Miller is sailing off into the sunset.

It has been totally mytical experience, babe.

Now who am I going to make fun of?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...an/4053517.html

I know... I'm so there with you. I can't believe we're going to lose her as the mayor. I guess we all have to go back to making fun of the school board and City Council. <sigh>

[RedScare]

I know... I'm so there with you. I can't believe we're going to lose her as the mayor. I guess we all have to go back to making fun of the school board and City Council. <sigh>

We feel your pain, Willy.

[tamtagon]

Copied from the Houston versus Dallas shopping thread:

As for the port's effect on Dallas, there are too many assumptions made to make that call. However, one thing is certain. Dallas' "port" is a subset of Houston's port. It will be decades before the Dallas installation even remotely approaches the volume that Houston's port does now.

One last thing. The bottom line in these operations is efficiency. The reason the Port of Houston is proposing this is to more efficiently move goods through the port. By definition, efficiency means the most work achieved with the least amount of labor. While this "port" will create well paying jobs, it will not create the numbers of jobs one might expect. Much of these goods will be moved in an automated fashion. In a metro of 6 million people, there might be 3.6 million jobs. Even 10,000 jobs a YEAR is not enough to employ all of the new residents.

It is a big deal for South Dallas. The rest of the metro, not so much. And, for Barney's.....not even on the radar.

It seems like Tam is counting his high end chickens before they hatch.

Tam should save the facts and figures for when (or if) this SE Dallas warehouse district makes a significant economic impact to the Metroplex. I'm sure this thread will still be going strong in 20 years. Then Tam might have some ACTUAL numbers to back up the claims instead of talking about hopeful projections and cryptic fantasies.

The Port of Houston will be a big contributor, but the Dallas Inland Port is not be a subset of the Port of Houston:

06:14 AM CDT on Tuesday, September 5, 2006

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...n1.3e3b8e3.html

...

The first signs of what will happen are already visible along Interstate 45. As you travel south of Loop 12, you can see the stacks of railroad cars peaking above the roadside and the giant warehouses already under construction.

...

These shipments currently arrive in huge cargo containers at Long Beach, Calif., the nation's second-busiest port. The annual number of containers (6.7 million) and the number of vessel visits (5,300) has overwhelmed the port, requiring ships to wait up to eight days to unload.

To reduce the backup, about 60 percent of these unopened containers would be shipped by rail from Long Beach to southern Dallas County. Once here, the goods would be divided up, or even warehoused, until they could be distributed via truck, train and even airplane to the Midwest and East Coast.

...

The development could spur as many as 30,000 jobs in the next 20 to 30 years. They would range from $10- to $15-an-hour warehouse jobs to possibly more lucrative office and management work.

...

"The southernmost route from the West Coast is the most economical way to reach the East Coast and Canada," said Dallas City Council member Bill Blaydes, who led the coalition. "The trade mission to China was to introduce Dallas as that crossroads."

E-mail sjacobson@dallasnews.com

In addition to Long Beach, trains will travel from two or three Mexican ports. I couldnt find on the Port of Houston webpage an estimate of cargo container volume, but I'm going to make the inevitable Pro-Dallas guess that the volume of cargo traveling from Long Beach to Dallas (~4.02 million containers) is greater existing volume of cargo containers currently received through the Port of Houston. [Like, cargo container volume guess is based on another guess that about 20% of the tonnage through the Port of Houston made up of cargo, and 80% is petroleum based and/or chemical stuff?]

The 30,000 warehouse jobs mentioned in Sherry Jacobson's column does include the Port of Houston leg of the inland port, nor does it include the activity from a planned cargo airport.

[Coaster]

Respectfully, I still think your dreaming. Your talking about things that have not even happened yet. I say, save it for when you can debate over something that actually exist.

I mean, I could easily predict that one day Houston's NHL team will win the Stanley Cup, but I probably should wait at least until there is an NHL team in Houston before I do.

[Trae]

The "Port of Dallas" is a subsidary of the Port of Houston. Without the Port of Houston, there would be no "Port of Dallas."

In addition to Long Beach, trains will travel from two or three Mexican ports. I couldnt find on the Port of Houston webpage an estimate of cargo container volume, but I'm going to make the inevitable Pro-Dallas guess that the volume of cargo traveling from Long Beach to Dallas (~4.02 million containers) is greater existing volume of cargo containers currently received through the Port of Houston. [Like, cargo container volume guess is based on another guess that about 20% of the tonnage through the Port of Houston made up of cargo, and 80% is petroleum based and/or chemical stuff?]

The 30,000 warehouse jobs mentioned in Sherry Jacobson's column does include the Port of Houston leg of the inland port, nor does it include the activity from a planned cargo airport.

Find all of this hard to believe. No way Dallas will surpass Houston in this.

[tamtagon]

They've been working on this for a while. A cooperative agreement with the Port of Houston is one of the more recent components:

Dallas NAFTA Trade Corridor

[Trae]

That NAFTA thing was going to go through Houston too, so that doesn't help your argument.

[Coaster]

I think at this point - the only thing that will help Tam's argument - is to for him/her to drop it. The more info I see about the "Port" of Dallas, the less impressed I am with it.

Tam, your talking about warehouses for Christ's sake.

I wouldn't want to spend much more energy discussing some pro Dallas pipe dream based on some wierd website. But if you want to waste your time trying to convince Houstonians that the "Port" of Dallas is bigger and more significant than the Port of Houston and have nothing better to do with your life (which judging by the number of posts you have the time to create on this website, you haven't) - go for it.

I consider it free entertainment.

But for God's sake get a life before it's too late.

Goodbye and good luck.

[Trae]

I think at this point - the only thing that will help Tam's argument - is to for him/her to drop it. The more info I see about the "Port" of Dallas, the less impressed I am with it.

Tam, your talking about warehouses for Christ's sake.

I wouldn't want to spend much more energy discussing some pro Dallas pipe dream based on some wierd website. But if you want to waste your time trying to convince Houstonians that the "Port" of Dallas is bigger and more significant than the Port of Houston and have nothing better to do with your life (which judging by the number of posts you have the time to create on this website, you haven't) - go for it.

I consider it free entertainment.

But for God's sake get a life before it's too late.

Goodbye and good luck.

Nah I respect Tam, I just don't know how he sees the Port of Dallas becoming more important and significant than the Port of Houston.

[tamtagon]

I think at this point - the only thing that will help Tam's argument ... trying to convince Houstonians that the "Port" of Dallas is bigger and more significant than the Port of Houston ....

But for God's sake get a life before it's too late.

Dude, you're getting all riled up thinking I'm boasting and showing-off and arguing about something that Dallas has/will have making it better than Houston (okay, knowingly wording statements without precaution just for the mild entertainment to observe pep squads and drill teams mobilize - sure), but that's not my intent. I dont expect Dallas NAFTA Trade Corridor initiatives to make much of a difference for most Houstonians, at least not until the Port of Houston's Agile facility starts making waves.

Now, I dont expect the port in Dallas to become more significant than the port of Houston. The bulk of activity in the PoH serves the country's largest petrochemical complex. The PoH importation of raw material, Ship Channel area processing & manufacturing, then PoH exportation of finished product, in my opinion, is much more significant than the activity imminent for the Port of Dallas, the bulk of which will be receiving, repacking and distributing imported goods. At some point, more heavy industry and manufacturing should develop because of the flow of product, but that's a ways off.

Eventually I think more imported cargo will be received for processing through PoD than received through the PoH - probably happen within a few years, too. I also think the total economic impact of PoD has the potential to rival and/or surpass the economic impact of both DFW Airport and the Port of Houston:

DFW has had a consistently positive economic impact on the local economy in Texas, generating more than $9.7 billion annually and has created 185,000 jobs in the Dallas / Fort Worth area.

Economic studies reveal that ship channel-related businesses support more than 287,000 direct and indirect jobs throughout Texas while generating nearly $11 billion in economic impact.

The potential for more significant operations at the Port of Dallas lies squarely with agile port cooperative with the Port of Houston. The agile port will help increase the ability of PoH to expand cargo import traffic, and that's important; but, the biggest deal of all comes from the potential increase of American Exports embark through the Port of Houston. Bad for Chicago and New Orleans, good for Dallas and Houston.

Getting a life, well, I learn alot from the time wrapped up in these forums. It's all good.

[Trae]

Eventually I think more imported cargo will be received for processing through PoD than received through the PoH - probably happen within a few years, too. I also think the total economic impact of PoD has the potential to rival and/or surpass the economic impact of both DFW Airport and the Port of Houston:

I still don't see how you can say this. The "Port" of Dallas would will not surpass the Port of Houston. The traffic that will be going into Dallas' "Port" would be material from the Port of Houston. I think the "Port" of Dallas will act as a reliever center to the Port of Houston. Almost like DFW building another airport to relieve DFW Airport (even though the passenger rate has fallen there).

[houstonfella]

are there any renderings of the Cowboys Stadium?

And that stadium, Dallas tends to run a decade or so behind Houston in getting first class stadia. Or is that stadiums? At any rate, we have two retractable roof ones and one Dome that was the '8th wonder of the world' by Texas standards. At any rate, I look forward to Dallas, errrrr, Arlington or some burb up there, having the balls to build something better than the hole in the roof design that has been Dallas' laughingstock for years. By the way, did I tell Dallas how much I love you?

[RedScare]

Eventually I think more imported cargo will be received for processing through PoD than received through the PoH - probably happen within a few years, too. I also think the total economic impact of PoD has the potential to rival and/or surpass the economic impact of both DFW Airport and the Port of Houston:

The potential for more significant operations at the Port of Dallas lies squarely with agile port cooperative with the Port of Houston. The agile port will help increase the ability of PoH to expand cargo import traffic, and that's important; but, the biggest deal of all comes from the potential increase of American Exports embark through the Port of Houston. Bad for Chicago and New Orleans, good for Dallas and Houston.

I don't think that will be the case. Previously, you referred to an article that optimistically predicted 30,000 warehouse jobs within 20 to 30 years. That is only one-sixth the impact of DFW and one-tenth that of the Port of Houston. Both of those entities are not predicted to shrink. And, while 30,000 jobs is significant, it is a drop in the bucket compared to the 5 to 6 million jobs that the Dallas-Fort Worth metro will have by 2035, something on the order of one-half of one per cent.

BTW, in another post, you quoted a business writer, who predicted 60% of Long Beach's 6.7 million containers would be diverted to Dallas, or approximately 4 million containers annually. Aside from the infrastructure required to handle 4 million containers, the writer seems to be somewhat optimistic, too. LA County states that Long Beach handles more like 4.5 million containers a year, though certainly it is increasing. Further, 50% of the containers that arrive at Long Beach are destined for the 5 counties surrounding the port. It is highly unlikely that Long Beach would abandon its current facilities to send all of its containers to Dallas. It is more likely that Dallas would handle some of the overflow as container traffic into Long Beach continues to increase.

By way of comparison, Houston handles one million containers yearly. In November, the Bayport container facility will open, raising capacity to 3 million containers. However, even that facility is only going to expand on a market driven basis. In other words, Bayport will not jump to 3 million containers overnight. Neither will the Agile Port.

[tamtagon]

Eventually I think more imported cargo will be received for processing through PoD than received through the PoH

I don't think that will be the case.

It'll be fun to keep track of.

[Gary]

I don't think that will be the case.

It'll be fun to keep track of.

I think you mean it will be funny to keep track of.

[tamtagon]

High Hopes

Written by: Jimmy Van Heusen & Sammy Cahn

Next time your found, with your chin on the ground

There a lot to be learned, so look around

Just what makes that little old ant

Think hell move that rubber tree plant

Anyone knows an ant, cant

Move a rubber tree plant

But hes got high hopes, hes got high hopes

Hes got high apple pie, in the sky hopes

So any time your gettin low

stead of lettin go

Just remember that ant

Oops there goes another rubber tree plant

When troubles call, and your backs to the wall

There a lot to be learned, that wall could fall

Once there was a silly old ram

Thought hed punch a hole in a dam

No one could make that ram, scram

He kept buttin that dam

cause he had high hopes, he had high hopes

He had high apple pie, in the sky hopes

So any time your feelin bad

stead of feelin sad

Just remember that ram

Oops there goes a billion kilowatt dam

All problems just a toy balloon

Theyll be bursted soon

Theyre just bound to go pop

Oops there goes another problem kerplop

[Houston19514]

I don't think that will be the case. Previously, you referred to an article that optimistically predicted 30,000 warehouse jobs within 20 to 30 years. That is only one-sixth the impact of DFW and one-tenth that of the Port of Houston. Both of those entities are not predicted to shrink. And, while 30,000 jobs is significant, it is a drop in the bucket compared to the 5 to 6 million jobs that the Dallas-Fort Worth metro will have by 2035, something on the order of one-half of one per cent.

BTW, in another post, you quoted a business writer, who predicted 60% of Long Beach's 6.7 million containers would be diverted to Dallas, or approximately 4 million containers annually. Aside from the infrastructure required to handle 4 million containers, the writer seems to be somewhat optimistic, too. LA County states that Long Beach handles more like 4.5 million containers a year, though certainly it is increasing. Further, 50% of the containers that arrive at Long Beach are destined for the 5 counties surrounding the port. It is highly unlikely that Long Beach would abandon its current facilities to send all of its containers to Dallas. It is more likely that Dallas would handle some of the overflow as container traffic into Long Beach continues to increase.

By way of comparison, Houston handles one million containers yearly. In November, the Bayport container facility will open, raising capacity to 3 million containers. However, even that facility is only going to expand on a market driven basis. In other words, Bayport will not jump to 3 million containers overnight. Neither will the Agile Port.

Thank you for your investigation and post. That 60% figure had also struck me as wildly optimistic and improbable.

[HarryMoto]

Here's more about the Port and what it might mean for Dallas' southern sector:

http://www.dallasobserver.com/Issues/2006-...ws/schutze.html

[2112]

The potential for more significant operations at the Port of Dallas lies squarely with agile port cooperative with the Port of Houston. The agile port will help increase the ability of PoH to expand cargo import traffic, and that's important; but, the biggest deal of all comes from the potential increase of American Exports embark through the Port of Houston. Bad for Chicago and New Orleans, good for Dallas and Houston.

Getting a life, well, I learn alot from the time wrapped up in these forums. It's all good.

I dont know if I mentioned it, but you really shouldnt be refering to this project as a "port". The reason I say this is that the nearest body of water is about 250 miles away. And historically at least, ports have water in it. And ships. And ships need water. Most people when they think of ports, they think of ships and water. So it's not a port. Because there is no water.

But yes, in the end, this is all good for both Houston and Dallas, and I'm firmly behind it.

[JasonDFW]

I dont know if I mentioned it, but you really shouldnt be refering to this project as a "port". The reason I say this is that the nearest body of water is about 250 miles away. And historically at least, ports have water in it. And ships. And ships need water. Most people when they think of ports, they think of ships and water. So it's not a port. Because there is no water.

I don't know if I posted this before, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_port

and a related link:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/port%20of%20entry

[laguy77]

Here's more about the Port and what it might mean for Dallas' southern sector:

http://www.dallasobserver.com/Issues/2006-...ws/schutze.html

it is a port. maybe not in the sense you want it to be, but how many airPORTS are no where near land? just a thought. think of it as a cargo port.

[Houston19514]

I don't know if I posted this before, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_port

and a related link:

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/port%20of%20entry

I'll join the fun...

Jason, since Wikipedia is your source of choice, I thought I would post their definition of "port", which is of course what we are discussing. As you know, 2112 was not objecting to calling the Dallas thing an "inland port". He was objecting to calling it a "port".

Here it is: Port

it is a port. maybe not in the sense you want it to be, but how many airPORTS are no where near land? just a thought. think of it as a cargo port.

Of course you surely have not failed to notice that the word you posted is not "port" but "AIRport". Quite a different word. Quite a different thing.

Again, the definition of "port"

[tamtagon]

If we're going to pick nits, the Port of Dallas is an Agile Port System, and the Port of Houston is a Seaport, how's that?

I'll stop refering to it as the 'Port of Dallas' as soon as U.S. Maritime Administration and the Port of Houston Authority do.

[Houston19514]

If we're going to pick nits, the Port of Dallas is an Agile Port System, and the Port of Houston is a Seaport, how's that?

I'll stop refering to it as the 'Port of Dallas' as soon as U.S. Maritime Administration and the Port of Houston Authority do.

If we're going to pick nits, and we are ;-) , the Port of Dallas is NOT a port and the Port of Houston is a port. (See definition in earlier post).

I've seen the reference to "agile port" before, but what in the name of Sam Houston is it supposed to mean? Wikipedia doesn't even know. ;-) Literally, I guess it means something like "a nimble or mentally alert city or town on a waterway with facilities for unloading ships." Of course that's kind of silly and certainly doesn't apply to anything in or near Dallas. ;-) In any event, the phrase "agile port system" does not describe the Dallas rail yard standing alone; It describes the entire system of the port in Houston (or the port in Long Beach, as the case may be) combined with the rail yard in Dallas.

As for the US Maritime Admin and Port of Houston using the name "Port of Dallas"... what are they supposed to do? The eternally silly Dallas booster types named the entity the Port of Dallas. Would you have the US Maritime Administration and the Port of Houston refuse to call them or do contracts with them by their legal entity name? I'm sure everyone at both agencies smirks whenever they say it or write it... ;-)

[JasonDFW]

As for the US Maritime Admin and Port of Houston using the name "Port of Dallas"... what are they supposed to do? The eternally silly Dallas booster types named the entity the Port of Dallas. Would you have the US Maritime Administration and the Port of Houston refuse to call them or do contracts with them by their legal entity name? I'm sure everyone at both agencies smirks whenever they say it or write it... ;-)

So, did HAIF spend this much time convincing everyone the San Antonio inland port, Alliance, and the Virginia inland port were not ports?

Was there an extra big thread complaining about San Antonio's "port authority" ( a term that 2112 believes is cool and trendy) being created for their inland port? Do people here talk about how "Port San Antonio" doesn't have any water so it's not a HAIF-Approved-port

[tamtagon]

If we're going to pick nits, and we are ;-) , the Port of Dallas is NOT a port and the Port of Houston is a port. (See definition in earlier post).

Are you saying the word "port" has only one application?

I guess the Port of Houston isnt really a seaport, since oceangoing vessels must navigate the ship channel prior to reaching the port facilities. Should it be the Inland Port of Houston?

It's a quick search on the Internet to find out what 'Agile Port' is supposed to mean. These ports are all over the place, the cooperative effort of the US Maritime Admin, City of Dallas and (Inland) Port of Houston Authority is a recent occurance. :-)

[Houston19514]

Are you saying the word "port" has only one application?

I guess the Port of Houston isnt really a seaport, since oceangoing vessels must navigate the ship channel prior to reaching the port facilities. Should it be the Inland Port of Houston?

It's a quick search on the Internet to find out what 'Agile Port' is supposed to mean. These ports are all over the place, the cooperative effort of the US Maritime Admin, City of Dallas and (Inland) Port of Houston Authority is a recent occurance. :-)

I am saying the word "port" has a definition.

From the defintition: "A port is a facility for receiving ships and transferring cargo to and from them. " And further "The terms "port" and "seaport" are used for ports that handle ocean-going vessels."

You seem to really be getting yourself confused with that lame attempt to call Houston an inland port in your second paragraph. The Port of Houston is in every sense of the word a "port". It is indeed a "facility for receiving ships and transferring cargo to and from them; and it handles ocean-going vessels. And, using a differently-phrased definition from my deskside dictionary, it is indeed a "city on a waterway with facilities for unloading ships."

Yes, I know how the term "agile port" is being used (basically a combination of a port with an inland railyard) but it does seem like an odd phrase, does it not? Any idea where that phrase came from or who cooked it up?