Port of Dallas Developments

[troyboy]

And Gary, about your promise, thanks.

Agreed. This whole port thing is something I know almost nothing about. It would be nice if this thread was used for intelligent meaningful discussion and exchanging information about this project. Instead, it's the same old Dallas v. Houston crap. The fewer flamethrowers the better. Some of us could care less about which city is better in your mean-absolutely-nothing opinions, and would appreciate actually being able to learn a little something on these forums.

[2112]

Did the "It is as if..." part cause you to lose your concentration?

Yes! Yes it did!! I had to pick myself up off the floor after reading the article and rolling on the floor laughing! Only bad thing is I dropped my shot of tequila (Patron Silver). Had to make me another one.

[2112]

Whatever. It is almost impossible it have a meaningful conversation on this board without some insecure Houstonite crying about how unfair the Dallas marketing machine is, as if everything you read that is puts Dallas in a positive light couldn

[Trae]

When ships enter the port of Houston (and possibly other ocean ports as well), giant cranes will put the containers from the cargo ships onto trains, which will be shot to Dallas, where all the logistical action will take place: customs, unloading, warehousing, sorting to destination. It is as if the boat will pull up to Houston, but the longshoremen will be in Dallas.

In short, the inland port will position southern Dallas County as the major center for the transport and distribution of goods in the central United States.

Who writes this crap?

[C2H]

When ships enter the port of Houston (and possibly other ocean ports as well), giant cranes will put the containers from the cargo ships onto trains, which will be shot to Dallas, where all the logistical action will take place: customs, unloading, warehousing, sorting to destination. It is as if the boat will pull up to Houston, but the longshoremen will be in Dallas.

In short, the inland port will position southern Dallas County as the major center for the transport and distribution of goods in the central United States.

Who writes this crap?

Obviously crazed and over-excited marketers that continue to try to promote Dallas to be something it's not and could never be. All Dallas port will be is an extention of Houston's Port. It will hardly be a epicenter for transportation and distribution of goods in the U.S.

If this is how Dallas is going to act, i'd rather the port not be built period, or either give it to San Antonio .

[CDeb]

If a tree falls at a port but it doesn't hit the water, does it make a splash?

[Dallascaper]

Obviously crazed and over-excited marketers that continue to try to promote Dallas to be something it's not and could never be. All Dallas port will be is an extention of Houston's Port. It will hardly be a epicenter for transportation and distribution of goods in the U.S.

If this is how Dallas is going to act, i'd rather the port not be built period, or either give it to San Antonio .

I know, imagine the gall of Dallas actually thinking that its proximity to major north/south, east/west rail and interstate lines, its connections to the POH, POLB, and the POLA, its temperate weather, abundant workforce, and plentiful cheap land, all somehow positions it to be the largest distribution hub in the central US. It is quite shocking how they come up with this stuff. Oh well, I guess where it comes to vision, Dallas has doers and Houston has you.

Keep in mind that the better Dallas develops its intermodal center, the better off the POH is. Relieving Houston

[JasonDFW]

I know, imagine the gall of Dallas actually thinking that its proximity to major north/south, east/west rail and interstate lines, its connections to the POH, POLB, and the POLA, its temperate weather, abundant workforce, and plentiful cheap land, all somehow positions it to be the largest distribution hub in the central US. It is quite shocking how they come up with this stuff. Oh well, I guess where it comes to vision, Dallas has doers and Houston has you.

If you were to read "central" as "inland" ports away from the coasts, then the two existing DFW area ports already have collected enough momentum to push the DFW port district to the be the largest inland port by $ in the US. Not counting Laredo of course, which is even larger than Houston by that measure. If you were to read "central" as in the center of the US then I'd consider Chicago as the king though, which DFW will not pass for quite a while (if ever). We'll see, but I'd think that the DFW area-wide competition would force all our ports to be very attractive to businesses. It'd take some serious planning though to make the south Dallas existing and future facilities dominant in this area. Competition is wonderful anyhow.

Jason

[musicman]

If you were to read "central" as "inland" ports away from the coasts, then the two existing DFW area ports already have collected enough momentum to push the DFW port district to the be the largest inland port by $ in the US. Not counting Laredo of course, which is even larger than Houston by that measure. If you were to read "central" as in the center of the US then I'd consider Chicago as the king though, which DFW will not pass for quite a while (if ever). We'll see, but I'd think that the DFW area-wide competition would force all our ports to be very attractive to businesses. It'd take some serious planning though to make the south Dallas existing and future facilities dominant in this area. Competition is wonderful anyhow.

Jason

Are you trying to help or hurt your cause?

[JasonDFW]

Are you trying to help or hurt your cause?

Do you have some updated figures or something that dispute something I said?

I'll turn the question around. Are you trying to help or hurt whatever your cause is?

Jason

[Dallascaper]

Do you have some updated figures or something that dispute something I said?

Jason

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting on facts or figures, at least none from anyone who knows what they are talking about. I get the impression that many of the posters here have little knowledge of how supply-chain works; they just pollute this thread with their perceptions of articles they read in newspapers. If someone is able to prove me wrong, please do

[TheNiche]

If you were to read "central" as "inland" ports away from the coasts, then the two existing DFW area ports already have collected enough momentum to push the DFW port district to the be the largest inland port by $ in the US. Not counting Laredo of course, which is even larger than Houston by that measure. If you were to read "central" as in the center of the US then I'd consider Chicago as the king though, which DFW will not pass for quite a while (if ever). We'll see, but I'd think that the DFW area-wide competition would force all our ports to be very attractive to businesses. It'd take some serious planning though to make the south Dallas existing and future facilities dominant in this area. Competition is wonderful anyhow.

Jason

Rather than define a "port" as a place where cargo merely clears U.S. customs, how about using a better indicator of economic impact? Transloaded tonnage, perhaps. Data, anyone?

[tamtagon]

Rather than define a "port" as a place where cargo merely clears U.S. customs, how about using a better indicator of economic impact? Transloaded tonnage, perhaps. Data, anyone?

During the two+ years I've been following it, there have been a handful of names used by the media to label components of the agile port, but none of 'em seem to stick. Since this is a cooperative of many entities, municipal, public & private rather than a development with one dominant player, I'm hopeful the soft machine in Dallas will come up with agreable long-lasting tags and avoid the wonder-struck proclimations of recent North Texas masterplans - Legacy, Victory Park, Glory Park.

I do not recall any estimates on cargo tonnage to be received in Dallas through the Port of Houston - letters of intent abound, but not a whole lot of transaction guestimates. And what has made me really anxious is that I've run across plenty of anecdotes describing how cargo will be shipped to Houston, trained to Dallas and distributed across the country, but hardly even a hint or whisper about domestic products & goods received in Dallas, trained to Houston for shipping around the world.

I only have handy this eventual container volume estimate:

06:14 AM CDT on Tuesday, September 5, 2006

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...n1.3e3b8e3.html

These shipments currently arrive in huge cargo containers at Long Beach, Calif., the nation's second-busiest port. The annual number of containers (6.7 million) and the number of vessel visits (5,300) has overwhelmed the port, requiring ships to wait up to eight days to unload.

To reduce the backup, about 60 percent of these unopened containers would be shipped by rail from Long Beach to southern Dallas County. Once here, the goods would be divided up, or even warehoused, until they could be distributed via truck, train and even airplane to the Midwest and East Coast.

I believe the Port of Los Angeles intends to join Long Beach to train cargo to distribution facilities in Dallas, and no fewer than two ports in Mexico will deliver cargo to facilities in Dallas for domestic distribution.

The Allen Group has lead the charge to develop South Dallas County real estate to handle the cargo containers, and brands the development as The Dallas Logistics Hub. There's plenty of good reading (if your interested more info) on the website.

I've been very curious to find out the cargo container volume through the Port of Houston; my perception is that currently fewer containers are handled through the PoH than has been estimated will be shipped by rail from Long Beach to Dallas County. The Dallas County cooperative is vital to grow activity at the Port of Houston. As for real time data, the $100 million Union Pacific Intermodal train terminal has been open for about 1.5 years, has focused on moving cargo containers from Long Beach, but I dont know what kind of volume has been reached so far.

[Trae]

During the two+ years I've been following it, there have been a handful of names used by the media to label components of the agile port, but none of 'em seem to stick. Since this is a cooperative of many entities, municipal, public & private rather than a development with one dominant player, I'm hopeful the soft machine in Dallas will come up with agreable long-lasting tags and avoid the wonder-struck proclimations of recent North Texas masterplans - Legacy, Victory Park, Glory Park.

I do not recall any estimates on cargo tonnage to be received in Dallas through the Port of Houston - letters of intent abound, but not a whole lot of transaction guestimates. And what has made me really anxious is that I've run across plenty of anecdotes describing how cargo will be shipped to Houston, trained to Dallas and distributed across the country, but hardly even a hint or whisper about domestic products & goods received in Dallas, trained to Houston for shipping around the world.

I haven't really thought of the bolded part before.

[tamtagon]

I haven't really thought of the bolded part before.

Potentially increasing the volume of American exports through Houston is the most intriguing part of the whole deal to me. The king of cargo shipping in the Gulf is New Orleans:

Port of New Orleans Overview

With the Mississippi River moving about 500 million tons of cargo each year

[Houston19514]

Potentially increasing the volume of American exports through Houston is the most intriguing part of the whole deal to me. The king of cargo shipping in the Gulf is New Orleans:

Port of New Orleans Overview

Yeah, according to the Port of New Orleans. Very unbiased source there. LOL

What is the volume and value of exports through the Port of New Orleans? FWIW, for the Port of Houston in 2005, the numbers for exports were: 43.9 million tons valued at $51.3 Billion.

[Dallascaper]

Yeah, according to the Port of New Orleans. Very unbiased source there. LOL

What is the volume and value of exports through the Port of New Orleans? FWIW, for the Port of Houston in 2005, the numbers for exports were: 43.9 million tons valued at $51.3 Billion.

Here's an excellent source, Bureau of Transportation Statistics:

Top US Ports by Container

Ranked by Value and Weight

[Houston19514]

Here's an excellent source, Bureau of Transportation Statistics:

Top US Ports by Container

Ranked by Value and Weight

Cool links. Thanks.

(And . . . so much for New Orleans being the "king of cargo shipping in the Gulf")

[TheNiche]

Here's an excellent source, Bureau of Transportation Statistics:

Top US Ports by Container

Ranked by Value and Weight

Somebody at BTS needs to learn how to spell Corpus Christi. They typed "Corpus Christie". They also need to figure out that Port Arthur is the name of the city, and that "Arthur, TX" does not exist except as Arthur City, which is along the Red River in North Texas.

Interesting data, though. Hopefully their numbers are more reliable than their letters.

[Trae]

Does more weight mean something good?

[TheNiche]

Does more weight mean something good?

Generally, yes. Houston does exceptionally well in tonnage because of the chemicals and refining operations that we've got. Liquids are heavy. You'll notice that Texas City and Freeport are also on the tonnage list. They wouldn't be there without their refineries.

But tonnage as a comparative indicator isn't particularly useful unless it is broken down into tonnage by type of cargo. For instance, for each thousand tons of cargo, fewer jobs are probably created in Houston than in Charleston because our tonnage is mostly liquid, whereas Charleston's is mostly containerized, and containerized tons are more labor-intensive.

[TxDave]

This whole thread continues to be ridiculous. All that is happening in the Dallas area is the development of a logistics center that will capitalize on "nearby" ports in order to create an extremely valuable asset for its investors.

If this "Port of Dallas" actually materializes as planned, it will be the redistribution point for goods coming in from several locations; including Houston, LA, Long Beach, and other ports in western Mexico. It will simply be a (major) redistribution center where incoming goods can be sorted and efficiently sent to their final destination -- eliminating this responsibility from the already overburdened ports of entry.

A far as the name goes - of course this is not a traditional "port" in the sense of a seaport, but calling something a port does not have to mean a "seaport". Any kind of "port" in Dallas takes nothing away from the actual Port of Houston, so there is no reason to make such a huge deal of this project. Why have we not heard similar reactions from the current "Port of San Antonio" or other comparable projects?

This is all about logistics and the efficient shipment of goods. Overall this project is good for both cities. The term "port" should not initiate any unnecessary territorial response or insecure feelings from proud Houstonians. The Port of Houston will continue to remain one of the top US seaports. Anything in Dallas will simply provide a redistribution of the incoming goods.

Houston continues to be one of the top ports of entry for goods into this country.

[2112]

With all due respect to Mr. Dave, you missed the whole point of this thread. All I was trying to do was point out yet another example of the rediculous levels of imagination that Dallas goes thru in order to paint an image of itself. True, other cities, including Houston, have some level of marketing to promote themselves. Fair enough. But, the rediculous levels that Dallas goes after is simply incredible. There is such a preocpation with its own image that it looses a sense of reality. And the reason no one here is picking on the Port of San Antonio is because that city is genuine. It doesnt beg to be this or that. It is what it is, warts and all.

[Dallascaper]

With all due respect to Mr. Dave, you missed the whole point of this thread. All I was trying to do was point out yet another example of the rediculous levels of imagination that Dallas goes thru in order to paint an image of itself. True, other cities, including Houston, have some level of marketing to promote themselves. Fair enough. But, the rediculous levels that Dallas goes after is simply incredible. There is such a preocpation with its own image that it looses a sense of reality. And the reason no one here is picking on the Port of San Antonio is because that city is genuine. It doesnt beg to be this or that. It is what it is, warts and all.

I am sure you mean well, trying to put Dallas back in its place, but by making your point you come across as someone who does not understand logistics terminology. You also come across as shallow and insecure as the city you are trying to besmirch.

In terms of Customs, the port of entry for the Dallas Intermodal facility will read

[TxDave]

With all due respect to Mr. Dave, you missed the whole point of this thread. All I was trying to do was point out yet another example of the rediculous levels of imagination that Dallas goes thru in order to paint an image of itself. True, other cities, including Houston, have some level of marketing to promote themselves. Fair enough. But, the rediculous levels that Dallas goes after is simply incredible. There is such a preocpation with its own image that it looses a sense of reality. And the reason no one here is picking on the Port of San Antonio is because that city is genuine. It doesnt beg to be this or that. It is what it is, warts and all.

You are helping reinforce my opinion of this whole thread. You seem to be upset because you believe that using the term "port" is some big marketing hype that Dallas has created for itself...

I am not aware of any kind of flashy campaign - only news reports that Dallas is attempting to create a logistics hub in its southern sector - which is justifiably good economic news. Granted you might not be aware of the dichotomy between northern and southern portions of Dallas, or the progress this project will provide to the south, but it is great news for an underutilized area (with its own share of warts but also much potential).

Meanwhile, when San Antonio uses the same term, it is OK because "that city is genuine" (or perhaps not as much of a rival?). I think your hypocrisy is showing a little. No disrespect implied, but any concerns of a port in Dallas apply to San Antonio as well. Personal opinions of genuine character do not dictate whether or not a city can justifiably establish an inland port.

In the end, making fun of a Dallas "port" is "fun" with respect to the ongoing rivalry, but don't turn it into some kind of outrageous marketing hype, conspiracy, or something more than it is -- a logistics hub and potential economic generator.

[2112]

Greetings to all of you fine Dallas bunch.

You "guys" seem to think I am upset or insecure or hypocritic or outrageous, etc. etc. and.........etc. At least that is what the previous 2 threads have implied. And I also seem to be acused of not not "seeing" the point of the great economic impact this (sound of clearing of throught)..."PORT" will have on the "REGION". To anyone who has bothered to read my threads, I have on multiple occasion acknowledged the good this so called "port" will have on this "region". Thats all good. My only quirck here is to note the level of marketing gimicks that dallas goes through in order to make something more than it really is. A "port"? Longeshoremen? Come one dudes. Even a 5th grader knows what a "port" is. Heck, we all do. And I can garantee you that when any sane indivdual thinks of a "port", they think of a city with some docks and some ocean or other body of water where these "SHIPS"show up and "DOCK" to it. Ships dock to a port. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. THEY ARE SHIPS. This is the essence of what is know as a PORT!!!!

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. But any other interpretation of a "port" is what I would call a "stretch", dont you think? And THAT was my point of this entire thread!!!!

I know I'm right!!! That's what makes this thing so damn funny!!!!!!! (its kinda bizzare when yout think about it)

-2112

[2112]

When ships enter the port of Houston (and possibly other ocean ports as well), giant cranes will put the containers from the cargo ships onto trains, which will be shot to Dallas, where all the logistical action will take place: customs, unloading, warehousing, sorting to destination. It is as if the boat will pull up to Houston, but the longshoremen will be in Dallas.

In short, the inland port will position southern Dallas County as the major center for the transport and distribution of goods in the central United States.

Who writes this crap?

I dont know if anyone else noticed this very clever inuendo by this dallas author, but the phrase "and possibly other ocean ports as well", attempts to downplay the fact that the port of houston is the main player here. Further, the article depicts ocean vessels entering the port of houston, where the containers are then "SHOT TO DALLAS". Thiese 3 words were carefully chosen by the author, because they imply that "as soon as" the ships are unloaded at houston's port, they are immediately taken away, as if to say, they have liitle buisiness here and are instead instantly, well, "shot", to DALLAS. Where "ALL" the action will take place.

The word "shot" carries alot of weight here, and it distills the essence of what the dallas marketering engine is trying to paint as this so called Port of Dallas.

It's so clear, isnt it....

[Dallasboi]

Greetings to all of you fine Dallas bunch.

You "guys" seem to think I am upset or insecure or hypocritic or outrageous, etc. etc. and.........etc. At least that is what the previous 2 threads have implied. And I also seem to be acused of not not "seeing" the point of the great economic impact this (sound of clearing of throught)..."PORT" will have on the "REGION". To anyone who has bothered to read my threads, I have on multiple occasion acknowledged the good this so called "port" will have on this "region". Thats all good. My only quirck here is to note the level of marketing gimicks that dallas goes through in order to make something more than it really is. A "port"? Longeshoremen? Come one dudes. Even a 5th grader knows what a "port" is. Heck, we all do. And I can garantee you that when any sane indivdual thinks of a "port", they think of a city with some docks and some ocean or other body of water where these "SHIPS"show up and "DOCK" to it. Ships dock to a port. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. THEY ARE SHIPS. This is the essence of what is know as a PORT!!!!

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. But any other interpretation of a "port" is what I would call a "stretch", dont you think? And THAT was my point of this entire thread!!!!

I know I'm right!!! That's what makes this thing so damn funny!!!!!!! (its kinda bizzare when yout think about it)

-2112

Ok...Let'st just say that all of this is true......but then how does that excuse san Antonio again? Because you even admitted that they too have a "PORT"......An Inland "Port". So they are allowed to call it that,and were wrong for doing so?..........Leave it alone Please!!!!!!

[Dallascaper]

It's so clear, isnt it....

I suppose it is clear if you are one of those 'black helicopter' & 'tinfoil hats' people. The only thing clear is your strange fixation with an editorial written in a neighborhood Oak Cliff newspaper. I'm sorry if you feel Houston is being slighted by Dallas, but even if true, it is so subtle and insignificant that I don't understand why you keep pushing the subject down our throats. You are like a woman who keeps arguing the same point over and over for months, as if that will somehow change that fact that she lost the debate or that it even matters.

[MidtownCoog]

ocean ports

You gotta admit that the term "ocean ports" is pretty funny. Ocean ports, as opposed to land ports or air ports?

It's like they are trying to legitimize the concept of a land port.

And The Port of Houston is not even on the ocean. It's on a channel, which leads to Galveston Bay, which leads to The Gulf of Mexico.