Ideas for commuter rail stops

[VicMan]

I have ideas for stops along commuter rail lines:

Fort Bend/Missouri City Line:

* Fannin South

* Westbury (somewhere near Westbury Square)

* Missouri City

* Stafford

* Sugar Land

* Rosenburg

Pearland/Brazoria Line:

* Fannin South

* Pearland

* Manvel

* Alvin

* Angleton

* Lake Jackson

* Freeport

Space Center/Galveston Line:

* Downtown

* Hobby Airport

* Ellington Field

* Space Center/NASA

* Kemah

* Texas City/La Marque

* Galveston

Northwest Line:

* Downtown

* Oak Forest

* Jersey Village

* Cypress

* Prairie View A&M

Airport Line:

* Downtown

* Northline Mall

* Bush Airport/Greenspoint/Aldine

Humble/Kingwood Line:

* Bush Airport/Greenspoint/Aldine

* Humble

* Kingwood

The Woodlands/Montgomery Line:

* Bush Airport/Greenspoint/Aldine

* The Woodlands

* Conroe

Baytown Line:

* Downtown

* Pasadena

* Deer Park

* La Porte

* Baytown

[lockmat]

I was just checking out the planned routes for the future commuter rail. I wonder how they decided those suburban areas needed them most? Seems like part of it is just b/c one goes towards Galveston. But I can't figure out the rest, like the one going down 290. Why not any others like down the North Freeway?

Anyone have guesses?

[Avabamse]

I was just checking out the planned routes for the future commuter rail. I wonder how they decided those suburban areas needed them most? Seems like part of it is just b/c one goes towards Galveston. But I can't figure out the rest, like the one going down 290. Why not any others like down the North Freeway?

Anyone have guesses?

Metro-hired consultants performed an analysis on usage prior to the resolution vote. Also, the Harris County Commissioners Court commissioned a competing study that focused on commuter rail on 249 and 290 to compete with and distract from Metro's numbers at the time of the resolution as well. This brought emphasis or priority to the 290 line.

Funny thing is that a previous analysis back in the mid/late 90s showed that only the SH249 corridor (terminus of Tomball) would produce a positively beneficial result of building rail. Of course, this would have been prior to the widening of 249.

Also, my *guess* would be that political pressure plays into the alignment choices. Metro has to first have the numbers right to justify the line, but then all of the lines cannot be geared to one service area or other groups have a tendency to claim foul.

[musicman]

ths way harris county is proposing them, the lines already exist so i'm not really sure your proposal will EVER come to fruition.

[lockmat]

Metro-hired consultants performed an analysis on usage prior to the resolution vote. Also, the Harris County Commissioners Court commissioned a competing study that focused on commuter rail on 249 and 290 to compete with and distract from Metro's numbers at the time of the resolution as well. This brought emphasis or priority to the 290 line.

Funny thing is that a previous analysis back in the mid/late 90s showed that only the SH249 corridor (terminus of Tomball) would produce a positively beneficial result of building rail. Of course, this would have been prior to the widening of 249.

Also, my *guess* would be that political pressure plays into the alignment choices. Metro has to first have the numbers right to justify the line, but then all of the lines cannot be geared to one service area or other groups have a tendency to claim foul.

I'm cool with that.

Do yall think that some day, that there will be a commuter rail along every major freeway?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I'm cool with that.

Do yall think that some day, that there will be a commuter rail along every major freeway?

No, i dont see that happening.

[ricco67]

No, i dont see that happening.

I don't see it happening for the north and west sections I DO see it happening in the future for 59 (sugarland/Richmond/victoria), 288 (pearland and points south), and 45 (El Dorado, clear Lake, etc) areas before the others (including Katy) because there is so much growth there, also, in a pinch, it could help out with evacuations into the city during Hurricane season.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I don't see it happening for the north and west sections I DO see it happening in the future for 59 (sugarland/Richmond/victoria), 288 (pearland and points south), and 45 (El Dorado, clear Lake, etc) areas before the others (including Katy) because there is so much growth there, also, in a pinch, it could help out with evacuations into the city during Hurricane season.

Agreed.

[lockmat]

Agreed.

What about a commuter rail meeting the future expansion of the North Line at the beltway? It seems like the Conroe/Woodlands/Spring area is to valuable to leave out.

I don't know.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

What about a commuter rail meeting the future expansion of the North Line at the beltway? It seems like the Conroe/Woodlands/Spring area is to valuable to leave out.

I don't know.

I dont see those people working in dwntwn in very large numbers in the future. The northern, northwestern and western parts of Houston and Harris County are taking on lives of there own, independant of dwntwn, which is where commuter rail would be geared to go.

[Montrose1100]

I dont see those people working in dwntwn in very large numbers in the future. The northern, northwestern and western parts of Houston and Harris County are taking on lives of there own, independant of dwntwn, which is where commuter rail would be geared to go.

How are they independant? I know alot of people that live in Conroe, Magnolia, and Spring that work in Greenspoint or the Woodlands, but i know ALOT more people that work Downtown or go intown for work. 45 is always jammed during rush hours, so how on earth did you come up with this idea that the north, northwest, and west are "independent"?.

[ricco67]

I would imagine the reason why he says that is because there are a number of office buildings up in that area, especially in the woodlands and such.

But I would imagine a connection between these two rails would help out a great deal.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I would imagine the reason why he says that is because there are a number of office buildings up in that area, especially in the woodlands and such.

Ah, you get the prize for being smart today.

[ricco67]

Ah, you get the prize for being smart today.

What do mean today?

I just don't have a habit of posting 30 posts a day of one liners.

[lockmat]

I dont see those people working in dwntwn in very large numbers in the future. The northern, northwestern and western parts of Houston and Harris County are taking on lives of there own, independant of dwntwn, which is where commuter rail would be geared to go.

They are independent yet that's still where commuter rail would be geared to go? Isn't that contradictory? I'm guessing that's not what you meant.

You meant that since they're independent, then commuter rail would not be going there.

Even so, are we making all these lines just for people to get to work? I'm sure it's a big part, but not the only reason why.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

They are independent yet that's still where commuter rail would be geared to go? Isn't that contradictory? I'm guessing that's not what you meant.

You meant that since they're independent, then commuter rail would not be going there.

Even so, are we making all these lines just for people to get to work? I'm sure it's a big part, but not the only reason why.

Please reread what i said. They are not independent, they are becoming more independent of dwntwn. Downtown is fast becoming less and less the center of business in Houston. Commuter rail will more than likely be used by the business travelers. The communities from which they will come are being built as self contained neighborhoods. Theres really no need to leave other than work. Case in point, i reside in the Champions area of Houston. Just about everything i need is within a 3-4 mile radius of my home. My car is approaching 3 yrs old and i only have a little over 13,800 miles on it. Many if not most of the aboved mentioned neighborhoods/areas are the same way

People that reside here and the other neighborhoods are not the sort, atleast in large part, that will get on a train to head into the city center for anything other than work. That work is typically Mon-Fri, not Sat. and Sun.

[lockmat]

Please reread what i said. They are not independent, they are becoming more independent of dwntwn. Downtown is fast becoming less and less the center of business in Houston. Commuter rail will more than likely be used by the business travelers. The communities from which they will come are being built as self contained neighborhoods. Theres really no need to leave other than work. Case in point, i reside in the Champions area of Houston. Just about everything i need is within a 3-4 mile radius of my home. My car is approaching 3 yrs old and i only have a little over 13,800 miles on it. Many if not most of the aboved mentioned neighborhoods/areas are the same way

People that reside here and the other neighborhoods are not the sort, atleast in large part, that will get on a train to head into the city center for anything other than work. That work is typically Mon-Fri, not Sat. and Sun.

lol...I'm still confused. Are you meaning to use dependant when you're using INdependent?

I think I get what you're saying.

So my thought is this. There are always going to be people who want to live in the suburbs and not the city. Most of the time, you can't choose where you work. So those who have jobs downtown, yet want to live in the burbs will still be forced to travel to the cbd.

Plus, like I asked before...are we just building these lines for commutes to work?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

lol...I'm still confused. Are you meaning to use dependant when you're using INdependent?

I think I get what you're saying.

So my thought is this. There are always going to be people who want to live in the suburbs and not the city. Most of the time, you can't choose where you work. So those who have jobs downtown, yet want to live in the burbs will still be forced to travel to the cbd.

Plus, like I asked before...are we just building these lines for commutes to work?

[lockmat]

Hey my bad. It was pretty ambiguous writing.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Hey my bad. It was pretty ambiguous writing.

I like you

[Transit Nut]

You may be interested in visiting this website:

http://www.hgaccommuterrail.com/

[VicMan]

I just got back from Japan, which has a lot of rail services.

I thought of a way to replace the bus airport shuttle.

When I went between Tokyo Station in Tokyo and Narita Airport in Chiba Prefecture, I took a JR train called the "Narita Express." The train travels on a Yokohama Station - Tokyo Station - Narita Airport track. This simple setup allows for fairly quick travel to Narita Airport.

For a Houston line, I would set this up to facilitate quick travel to the airports

* Conroe

* The Woodlands

* Bush Airport

* Downtown Houston (or main train station)

* Hobby Airport

* NASA/Clear Lake

* Galveston

This allows for quick travel between the airports and Houston and some of its suburbs.

This line would not be the only line serving the airports, I would have other lines with more stops serving more areas (i.e. Cypress, Spring/Klein, Ellington Field) - This line is meant to ferry airport travelers and employees quickly from Houston's CBD to the airports.

EDIT: I found that other variations of the Narita Express may/also do stop at other stations. Nonetheless, the one I used traveled straight from Tokyo Station to Narita Airport.

[wxman]

Well the population of Houston, though growing fastest in the suburbs, is becoming more concentrated inside the loop. In saying that, there is millions of sq. ft. or office space in places like The Woodlands, Greenspoint, Uptown, Katy and Sugar Land were people will need to get to work. Why does it have to be just a DT thing? They can use the commuter rail for heading to work in the burbs from the inner city. But I agree with the last post, if you made the lines reliable on the airports, I think it would funtion better than anybody can hope for.

[musicman]

in theory it could work, however METRO's current designs aren't express type trains rather they are more bus replacements to maximize ridership. the current IAH express bus from downtown would easily beat it by 30-45 mins. the last plan i saw regarding an IAH connection had it stop at greenspoint and you had to hop on a bus for the last leg which is bad.

[VicMan]

Also, there should be a rule that every single 9-12 high school and community college within the Houston city limits (regardless of the school district) must have a bus stop, although buses will only have to run during school hours.

Now, I want to find some way to get rail to the Katy area, but thanks to the boxing in of the I-10 area, this may prove to be extremely difficult.

If there was a magic way to bring commuter rail to Katy, I would be content with a City of Katy to Uptown and Downtown route.

in theory it could work, however METRO's current designs aren't express type trains rather they are more bus replacements to maximize ridership. the current IAH express bus from downtown would easily beat it by 30-45 mins. the last plan i saw regarding an IAH connection had it stop at greenspoint and you had to hop on a bus for the last leg which is bad.

We need to ask METRO to borrow the type of train used for JR's Narita Express. METRO does not need even an Acela-fast train - It just needs the kind needed to ferry people from Houston's Downtown to Bush Airport in a reasonable amount of time. JR's express trains include airline-style compartments and baggage closets to store bags. Also, JR has assigned seats and attendants selling drinks and ice cream during the ride. METRO's ride would be so short that the attendant would not be needed (although vending machines at the stations should do the trick).

Also, the Narita Express in Japan stops at Terminal 1 and 2. Therefore, METRO's express, between Downtown and the Woodlands, should stop at A, B, C, and D/E at IAH. Hobby only needs one stop.

[musicman]

Also, there should be a rule that every single 9-12 high school and community college within the Houston city limits (regardless of the school district) must have a bus stop, although buses will only have to run during school hours.

this is unreasonable. there are quite a few schools that are too distant to be served by METRO.

[VicMan]

this is unreasonable. there are quite a few schools that are too distant to be served by METRO.

I'm only talking about the Houston city limits (not all of Harris County) - Westside HS, for instance, is outside Beltway 8, yet HISD and METRO made a deal and opened a bus stop at Briar Forest and Briar Home when the school opened.

See the METRO system map here: http://www.ridemetro.org/schedules_and_map.../SysMap_web.pdf

And compare it to the city limits: http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/nbhd_svc...ap_w_links.html

Also, more or less all of the areas which the schools reside in have established bus routes, so only minute changes (new routes in areas with existing routes and added stops at or near the schools in existing routes) would be needed to satisfy this requirement.

As an example, I would link Kingwood with Greenspoint like this:

* Greenspoint -> Bush Airport -> City of Humble -> Kingwood College -> Kingwood Park HS -> Kingwood Park and Ride -> Kingwood HS (reverse route to Greenspoint)

For a slower airport route via commuter rail, I would use:

* Galveston -> Texas City/La Marque -> League City/Kemah -> NASA/Clear Lake -> Ellington Field -> Hobby Airport -> Gulfgate -> Eastwood -> Downtown -> Northside Village -> Northline Mall -> Greenspoint -> Bush IAH -> Spring/Klein -> The Woodlands -> Conroe

[musicman]

I'm only talking about the Houston city limits (not all of Harris County) - Westside HS, for instance, is outside Beltway 8, yet HISD and METRO made a deal and opened a bus stop at Briar Forest and Briar Home when the school opened.

there are numerous schools in houston that aren't near bus service due to relative lack of population. you'd be surprised about schools on east and south sides.

As an example, I would link Kingwood with Greenspoint like this:

* Greenspoint -> Bush Airport -> City of Humble -> Kingwood College -> Kingwood Park HS -> Kingwood Park and Ride -> Kingwood HS (reverse route to Greenspoint)

in theory it could work but ridership would be low.

For a slower airport route via commuter rail, I would use:

* Galveston -> Texas City/La Marque -> League City/Kemah -> NASA/Clear Lake -> Ellington Field -> Hobby Airport -> Gulfgate -> Eastwood -> Downtown -> Northside Village -> Northline Mall -> Greenspoint -> Bush IAH -> Spring/Klein -> The Woodlands -> Conroe

commuter rail exists were tracks currently are. there are no tracks from ellington to hobby to gulfgate to eastwood to downtown. i don't know of any tracks at northline or greenspoint either.

[VicMan]

1. I checked - Madison, Chavez, Jones, and Worthing have stops within 1/2 a mile; Willowridge, Dobie, and Sterling are near regular routes that do not bear stops within 1/2 mile of the schools.

Furr and Clear Lake are near Park and Ride routes. Actually, a bus serving CLHS AND University of Houston at Clear Lake may work as the graduate students at UHCL may commute from elsewhere.

2. What if the Greenspoint Line only ran during peak job hours to catch office workers?

3. What routes do you suggest that an IAH-Downtown-HOU line take? What existing rail would facilitate this?

[musicman]

Furr and Clear Lake are near Park and Ride routes. Actually, a bus serving CLHS AND University of Houston at Clear Lake may work as the graduate students at UHCL may commute from elsewhere.

i guess our definition of "near" is different. i don't see clear lake high school as near the park and ride.

2. What if the Greenspoint Line only ran during peak job hours to catch office workers?

METRO tends to be eliminating more routes than adding them at this point due to lack of funds. peak hrs would be best if implemented.

3. What routes do you suggest that an IAH-Downtown-HOU line take? What existing rail would facilitate this?

the hardy route would be most efficient esp if stops are minimized to IAH. to hobby, there is no rail. the nearest rail would be mykawa which METRO is shying away from due to relative lack of residents. with limited resources in a city that is spread out projects like this are just difficult to implement.