West Belt Project - Underpasses In District H & I Railroads

[samagon]

10 hours ago, JClark54 said:

I don't actually think Cullen will be closed. It and Leeland were omitted from the grant application, with York being separated and the existing Navigation underpass being revamped to include Commerce. 

This study was used to apply for funds simply because it's the only one ever performed. The city planning department admitted it had never studied the area in a recent meeting.

yeah, I think the idea for Leeland grade separation and Cullen closure was tabled very early in the process.

that it still exists in their documents though is very worrying. 

[Houston19514]

Mods, can we separate the West Belt project discussion into a separate thread?

[JClark54]

The existing thread can be found here: 

 

[samagon]

20 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Mods, can we separate the West Belt project discussion into a separate thread?

the west belt project changes are very much intermingled with the i45 project so it is very much topical to this thread. siloing the data so you don't have to read it if you don't open the thread isn't going to make it less of a negative impact.

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

the west belt project changes are very much intermingled with the i45 project so it is very much topical to this thread. siloing the data so you don't have to read it if you don't open the thread isn't going to make it less of a negative impact.

I don’t want it siloed so I don’t have to read it. I want it in its own thread so people can read and clearly understand the various and very much separate and distinct projects. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Houston19514

[samagon]

7 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I don’t want it siloed so I don’t have to read it. I want it in its own thread so people can read and clearly understand the various and very much separate and distinct projects. 

they are very separate and unique projects, but when you review how they will both interact with the local traffic flow the need to review them together is important.

[Houston19514]

18 hours ago, samagon said:

they are very separate and unique projects, but when you review how they will both interact with the local traffic flow the need to review them together is important.

That can be easily and clearly accomplished by references and links.  NHHIP also affects and interacts with the Inner Katy BRT project and the University Line BRT project.  Should we just consolidate those topics here too?

Edited March 29, 2023 by Houston19514

[samagon]

if someone has concerns about how another project and this one will intermingle then why wouldn't this be the place to discuss it?

we're clearly not going to agree, and we don't have to, so please have the last word.

[Houston19514]

36 minutes ago, samagon said:

if someone has concerns about how another project and this one will intermingle then why wouldn't this be the place to discuss it?

Of course no one ever suggested that no mention should be made of another project and how it might intermingle with NHHIP.  The West Belt posts I have suggested be moved to a West Belt thread go well beyond a discussion of its interaction with NHHIP and would be more logically located in the West Belt thread (having these posts illogically located in this highway thread means they are more likely to not be seen by viewers who want to learn about the West Belt project).

[JClark54]

On 3/13/2023 at 11:17 AM, Houston19514 said:

To be clear, drivers using Polk Street will still be able to access downtown pretty easily, with a short detour around the depressed freeway.  Inbound - take right on St Emmanuel, use the U-Turn lane to get on to Hamilton and then a right back on to Polk. Outbound, take a right on Hamilton, left on Leland, left on St Emmanuel back to Polk (or just continue on Leeland for a while).

What is the other TxDOT project being referenced?  Can someone provide a link?

For clarity, it was you who asked for the information to be posted here you would later deem "illogically located." I tried avoid what would ultimately occur from your request by noting at first post that it was a separate project also covered on this forum. 

I take no issue if the content is moved, as I voluntarily provided the link to the core thread. But the person claiming it's not suitable here is the one who drove it's placement. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by JClark54

[Houston19514]

13 hours ago, JClark54 said:

For clarity, it was you who asked for the information to be posted here you would later deem "illogically located." I tried avoid what would ultimately occur from your request by noting at first post that it was a separate project also covered on this forum. 

I take no issue if the content is moved, as I voluntarily provided the link to the core thread. But the person claiming it's not suitable here is the one who drove it's placement. 

For clarity, here is what the person asking for the removal of all of the very detailed discussion of the West Belt project actually asked for:

"What is the other TxDOT project being referenced?  Can someone provide a link?"  A link, not a deep, detailed, drawn-out discussion of the project.

[JClark54]

Eh, I posted your comment in totality. Full respect to your views. I don't have to answer in the way you see fit.

Do you want to talk about the merits of the project of whether I posted in accordance with your standards? We're wasting one another's time. 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by JClark54

[004n063]

I like how an overly drawn-out discussion about a separate topic has turned into an overly drawn-out discussion about that overly drawn out discussion.

[Big E]

12 hours ago, 004n063 said:

I like how an overly drawn-out discussion about a separate topic has turned into an overly drawn-out discussion about that overly drawn out discussion.

Such is life on an internet forum. 

[JClark54]

The U.S. DOT announced today it has awarded $36 million to the CoH to cover a portion of this project: https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/2023-06/FY22-RCE-Selections_PDFa.pdf

Edited June 5, 2023 by JClark54

[hindesky]

"The money, from the federal Railroad Crossing Elimination Program, will go to the city of Houston to build underpasses at Commerce at Navigation and at York near McKinney. It is the third-largest award announced and covers about 30 percent of the $123.6 million cost. Four underpasses will be constructed, creating what federal officials called a 9,000-foot sealed corridor that removes seven different at-grade rail crossings for drivers in the East End, hemmed in by both Union Pacific and BNSF Railway yards."

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/houston-east-end-trains-underpasses-18132707.php

[Fondochug]

What's the time line look like for a project like this? Maybe done in 3 years? Before the World Cup?

[JClark54]

 

1 hour ago, Fondochug said:

What's the time line look like for a project like this? Maybe done in 3 years? Before the World Cup?

I may know more in a month. 

[JClark54]

Coverage of FRA Administrator Amit Bose's press conference on the West Belt Improvement project: 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/houston-east-end-underpasses-rail-crossing-18138449.php

[Triton]

On 3/17/2023 at 9:59 AM, JClark54 said:

The West Belt project would place York below grade, with the drop beginning at Dallas or Lamar (TxDOT has Dallas and the city has Lamar) to Harrisburg. It will create much-needed passage under the West Belt and Galveston Subdivision at York as well as rebuilding the existing Navigation underpass to include Commerce. 

Included in the project is the long soughtafter quiet zone, which TxDOT and its partners could accomplish using additional grade separations or street closures. It tagged closures at $50K apiece versus separations at many millions apiece. So the byproduct is the closure of many streets where they cross York or the West Belt, including streets TxDOT has identified to carry traffic to and from the highway. 

 

The project is contingent on federal funding as the city won't have the local match. If the feds come through, Sampson and York will become two-way streets, with Sampson dead-ending at both sides of the West Belt. York will continue through as an underpass, although I doubt that is in stone. The Harrisburg overpass, as an example, was originally designated an underpass. Soil contamination made it unfeasible. 

I believe the US DOT will approve the city's grant application, as communities around the West Belt and Galveston Sub have begun documenting train blockages -- not moving trains, but ones stopped on city streets -- and reporting directly to the FRA rather than the usual course of the railroads. The FRA studied the area and found it was the most congested complex in the United States of America. It sees twice the number of blocked crossings in excess of 15 minutes -- the federally designated maximum time a train can sit at a crossing -- than the second most congested city. 

TxDOT's most recent Houston region freight rail study found up to 75 trains per day cross the double-track mainline West Belt, so three-plus trains per hour. Being generous and using 10-minute passage times, that means crossings are blocked half the day, every day. In reality, the trains move slower in the east end due to myriad factors (rail yard density, turns, and general line congestion) and the average crossing time exceeds 20 minutes, plus there's the usual parked train. So the actual impact is far greater. 

As a single-track mainline, the Galveston Subdivision sees less total train volume but suffers from long stops. There is no crossing of this line besides Emancipation and Wayside, a three-plus mile gap. 

The improvement project is much needed. Rail volume is increasing, and the railroads predict it will not stop anytime soon. They've underinvested in rail infrastructure expansions while committing to an operating model -- PSR -- that embraces extending train lengths while reducing staff. 

Just two days ago, the STB approved the Canadian Pacific-Kansas City Southern merger, which will bring an additional 8-14 trains per day through the Houston complex. One of its two operating routes is the West Belt. 

 

 

 

Man, is this seriously the only place we are having this railroad discussion about? I can't seem to find a separate thread.

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/houston-east-end-underpasses-rail-crossing-18138449.php#photo-23913205

[Ross]

13 minutes ago, Triton said:

Man, is this seriously the only place we are having this railroad discussion about? I can't seem to find a separate thread.

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/houston-east-end-underpasses-rail-crossing-18138449.php#photo-23913205

Maybe here:

 

[Triton]

7 hours ago, Ross said:

Maybe here:

 

Thank you! Looks like I'll have fun merging these topics as best as I can.

[Triton]

13 hours ago, JClark54 said:

Coverage of FRA Administrator Amit Bose's press conference on the West Belt Improvement project: 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/houston-east-end-underpasses-rail-crossing-18138449.php

Thanks. Going to merge some of this discussion from the I-45 thread just in case people are wondering why two people posted the same link.

[Triton]

On 3/28/2023 at 4:43 PM, samagon said:

they are very separate and unique projects, but when you review how they will both interact with the local traffic flow the need to review them together is important.

Agreed. But now with this latest news from the city today, it was very difficult to find the schematics and info @JClark54 posted in the I-45 thread so I've moved everything to this thread. If I have missed any comments about the West Belt project, please let me know and I'll bring them over here too. Thanks everyone.

[phillip_white]

Does anyone have a timeline for this project? I think I remember seeing something about Planning Phase extending through 2024 and construction starting sometime next year.

[JClark54]

First year of funding was set for 2027-28. Unsure there things stand now with mayor's announcement earlier this year that all projects will be paused for review.