Help Me With This Poll

[tamtagon]

United States

Independent

[nmainguy]

this "poll" is a scam

Really? How so? As for myself I only responded to midtown 4.2's friendly request for info [see 1st post].

[nmainguy]

I wondered about the theory behind it. midtown 4.2 is well traveled. midtown 4.2 is conservative. Ergo, conservatives are more enlightened because they've seen more of the world and know just how damn good we have it in the US of A, by golly.

If that turned out to be the theory, I was going to offer an alternative of my own: conservatives tend to be wealthier, and therefore they can afford to travel more.

Maybe my guess is totally off, however.

(Sigh... I try to avoid the political discussions on this forum like the frikkin' PLAGUE, and yet here I am, smack dab in the middle of one.)

Huh?

[TJones]

^^^ I could go to alot more places, but I just have no desire to go see Euro-trash. When I get older, I'll probably go, so I can see the History of The World. right now, I'm more interested in the history of my own life here with my family.

[editor]

conservatives tend to be wealthier

It was once explained to me that it's easier to be conservative when you have something to conserve. Thus, so many elderly people vote Republican.

[MidtownCoog]

It was once explained to me that it's easier to be conservative when you have something to conserve. Thus, so many elderly people vote Republican.

There is a saying along these lines..

Something like "if you are not liberal when you are young, you have no heart, something for middle age, and what you saif for when you are old and conservative".

I'll have to dig that quote up some time.

[RedScare]

I wondered about the theory behind it. midtown 4.2 is well traveled. midtown 4.2 is conservative. Ergo, conservatives are more enlightened because they've seen more of the world and know just how damn good we have it in the US of A, by golly.

Interesting. I had always heard the opposite, that conservatives are that way because they never go anywhere except American places.

Guess this goes to prove that both theories are flawed.

[MidtownCoog]

nice find

[nmainguy]

This might be of interest: http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/....cfm?pageid=112

Kind of a Churchill buff here. I've heard the rumor as well but have never heard it as being verifiable.

Anyway, I know wealthy Liberals and poor Conservatives and vice-versa. It's really kind of moot.

Edited November 23, 2005 by nmainguy

[ferronsfunctionals]

China

Hong Kong (pre- china rule)

Tiawaan

Japan

France - but just the Airport, same for Amsterdam and London - you know, long enough to be at the airport for a day, but not much else

Kuwait

Nigeria

Argentina

USA - Texas, Arizona, Washington (state), Oregon, California, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Idaho

I think that is about it.

My Political Leanings - Moderate in Texas, Conservative outside of Texas, it is all realtive you know.

I personally have a hard time differentiating between Fiscally Conservative, and Cheap. I say that because I feel as though a lot of money is wasted here in Houston by not properly funding things the extra 10% to do it right the first time, so we pay an extre 2% for maintenence for 20 years. For example - road construction, everyone digs up the roads and puts the same dirt back in the ground. This, in my opinion, is stupid because the soil being put back into the ground isn't easy to compact because of the type of soil it is. Therefore, over time, the soil compacts from traffic and rain etc. If they would have just spent another $200,000 on the $4,000,000 project for crushed gravel the soil would compact and drain better, thus keeping our roads smoother for longer timeframes. Ultimately reducing the maintenance costs for a direct savings, and making traffic travel smoother for reduced congestion (potentially), and lower wear and tear on our cars for indirect savings.....

So, if I am a liberal for wanting to spend a few more dollars on up front costs that will result in better use of money, then I am a liberal. But, if you agree with the not necessarily Fiscally Conservative, but Fiscally RESPONSIBLE approach...that is what I am looking for...EFFICIENCY.....anyone else care about how efficient the money is spent, rather than just how much money is "taken" from us?

[DJ V Lawrence]

Jamaica

Mexico

Japan

Korea

I'm a neutral dude. Conservative when I wanna be. Liberal when I feel like it. Texan 'cause I was born that way.

[midtown 4.2]

OK now . . . to test the next part of my theory, can everybody submit their Social Security # and their birth date . . . ha ha, kidding.

Torchlight beat me to the punch . . . almost.

Well, here’s my “theory” . . . and please don’t flame me . . . it’s just observations I’ve made.

I’ve noticed that a lot of “hate America” rhetoric comes from the Left. That the USA is the root of all evil, that we are destroying the world, that our corporations are evil. That we should try to be like the rest of the world. . . be like France and Germany, how dare we point out the corruption at the United Nations, that we are a big bully, that we pollute the world, we’re destroying the ozone layer, we’re not good stewards of the environment, we should share our nuclear technology . . . to ensure that we won’t take over the earth. etc. etc. etc.

This hate America talk just blows my mind. I can’t possibly conceive how anyone could hate America. You see, I was born a US citizen, but have lived overseas most of my life. We would travel back to the US for an annual Christmas vacation . . . so I feel that I had a foot in both worlds; that I was equally comfortable in or out of the States. Having lived amongst foreigners (most of my life), I saw first hand their sheer awe and admiration for all things American. To just be able to visit the United States was way beyond anyone’s dream. So, many would do the next best thing . . .be close to something from the States. For example: If a kid were to bring a pack of Bubblelicious to school . . . he would be the instant cool kid on campus, all his friends would just want to see the packet, and possibly touch it . . . it was “stateside” the term given to items originating from the USA. No one would dare eat it . . . even the owner of the gum. Adults would “hang out” at the airport just to catch a glimpse of the beautiful Pan Am stewardesses filing out the terminal. Take our current border problem . . . ever thought why people are willing to risk their LIFE just to set foot in the US? I fear that I’m not articulate enough to describe to you folks how most of the world views us. Take the Hollywood / Anglo depiction of Shangri-La . . . well, that pales in comparison to how most of the world views “America” . . the land of milk and honey, where streets are paved in gold, where chocolate flows out of fountains . . .

Having lived on the outside looking in, I feel that I am better able to appreciate what I have . . . no matter how little it currently is. This is the crux of my “theory” . . . that people that have been exposed to the “real” world outside the US, that have traveled a lot, can see that we are not that bad. In fact, we are really good! That most of the anti-America thought comes from people that don’t have a basis of comparison.

Torchlight predicted what I was about to say “. . . conservatives are more (ENLIGHTENED) because they’ve seen more of the world and know how damn good we have it. . . “ Well, I sincerely had the term “appreciative” in mind. Conservative are more appreciative because they’ve seen more of the world and know how good we have it. I guess it’s the political filter that we are both using, that gives rise to the difference in terminology.

In conclusion, I have to admit that the results of this unscientific poll proves that my theory is baseless. I enjoyed reading the responses, thanks for participating. Happy Thanksgiving.

[TJones]

I can give you Redscare, editor and nmain's social's if you want ? You could probably buy some really good stuff with their credit too, not so much on editor's account, but Red and nmain are bullets !

Edited November 23, 2005 by TJones

[nmainguy]

I can give you Redscare, editor and nmain's social's if you want ? You could probably buy some really good stuff with their credit too, not so much on editor's account, but Red and nmain are bullets !

BANG BANG!!!

[Ashikaga]

BANG BANG!!!

Franklin Delano Roosevelt said: " A Conservative is a person who has two perfectly good legs but hasn't yet learned how to walk".

[travelguy_73]

Having lived on the outside looking in, I feel that I am better able to appreciate what I have . . . no matter how little it currently is. This is the crux of my “theory” . . . that people that have been exposed to the “real” world outside the US, that have traveled a lot, can see that we are not that bad. In fact, we are really good! That most of the anti-America thought comes from people that don’t have a basis of comparison.

I work all over the world. In fact, the vast majority of my work deals with foreign regulations. In my experience, I have come to appreciate much of what the US has to offer. If you are willing to work hard, you CAN do well here. From a regulatory standpoint, we are very pro-business and fiscally responsible. I would consider most other governments to be nannies, treating their citizens with constant suspicion. There is a report and form for every aspect of life, and one government employee for every one in the private sector. Labor councils, high tax rates, and poor socialized medicine are the norm.

*However*, from a social standpoint, I have grown to appreciate the attitude of many (not all) foreign countries. Even though much of Europe has a history of strong religious leaders, they don't have nearly as much impact on people's daily lives. The discussions we have here on personal rights and freedoms were settled ages ago there. We celebrate violence in movies, but have trashed our sex education classes. Then we write checks to unwed mothers on welfare.

So, basically I would like to take the economic and bureaucratic freedoms we have, and the social libertarianism that Europe has and merge them together. That is what other countries and their citizens have taught me.

[VelvetJ]

OK now . . . to test the next part of my theory, can everybody submit their Social Security # and their birth date . . . ha ha, kidding.

Torchlight beat me to the punch . . . almost.

Well, here’s my “theory” . . . and please don’t flame me . . . it’s just observations I’ve made.

I’ve noticed that a lot of “hate America” rhetoric comes from the Left. That the USA is the root of all evil, that we are destroying the world, that our corporations are evil. That we should try to be like the rest of the world. . . be like France and Germany, how dare we point out the corruption at the United Nations, that we are a big bully, that we pollute the world, we’re destroying the ozone layer, we’re not good stewards of the environment, we should share our nuclear technology . . . to ensure that we won’t take over the earth. etc. etc. etc.

This hate America talk just blows my mind. I can’t possibly conceive how anyone could hate America. You see, I was born a US citizen, but have lived overseas most of my life. We would travel back to the US for an annual Christmas vacation . . . so I feel that I had a foot in both worlds; that I was equally comfortable in or out of the States. Having lived amongst foreigners (most of my life), I saw first hand their sheer awe and admiration for all things American. To just be able to visit the United States was way beyond anyone’s dream. So, many would do the next best thing . . .be close to something from the States. For example: If a kid were to bring a pack of Bubblelicious to school . . . he would be the instant cool kid on campus, all his friends would just want to see the packet, and possibly touch it . . . it was “stateside” the term given to items originating from the USA. No one would dare eat it . . . even the owner of the gum. Adults would “hang out” at the airport just to catch a glimpse of the beautiful Pan Am stewardesses filing out the terminal. Take our current border problem . . . ever thought why people are willing to risk their LIFE just to set foot in the US? I fear that I’m not articulate enough to describe to you folks how most of the world views us. Take the Hollywood / Anglo depiction of Shangri-La . . . well, that pales in comparison to how most of the world views “America” . . the land of milk and honey, where streets are paved in gold, where chocolate flows out of fountains . . .

Having lived on the outside looking in, I feel that I am better able to appreciate what I have . . . no matter how little it currently is. This is the crux of my “theory” . . . that people that have been exposed to the “real” world outside the US, that have traveled a lot, can see that we are not that bad. In fact, we are really good! That most of the anti-America thought comes from people that don’t have a basis of comparison.

Torchlight predicted what I was about to say “. . . conservatives are more (ENLIGHTENED) because they’ve seen more of the world and know how damn good we have it. . . “ Well, I sincerely had the term “appreciative” in mind. Conservative are more appreciative because they’ve seen more of the world and know how good we have it. I guess it’s the political filter that we are both using, that gives rise to the difference in terminology.

In conclusion, I have to admit that the results of this unscientific poll proves that my theory is baseless. I enjoyed reading the responses, thanks for participating. Happy Thanksgiving.

Interesting theory but I will have to disagree with you. Hate is a very strong word. I have my own opinions on what I really think applies to probably most of the people you are lableling as "America haters". From my experience I think it is more of a sitatution of there are those that are aware of the fact that America isn't always the innocent angles we paint ourselves to be. As much as we love America, we know that America isn't ALWAYS right. We know that as great as our country is, this country has been greater to some over others. We are aware of the fact that there are times when our country can be unfair. We are aware of the fact that some of our companies will place making a buck over any and everything, including people. And although we are aware we are in the greatest country in the world, we know it isn't perfect and in some situations could do certain things better, and just overall improve in some areas. Most people that you think hate America in actuality just want the country to do and be better, and believe it or not, it is more than likely coming from a place of love.

In a sense, it's sort of like my experience on this site. As most here know, I can be very critical of Houston. Some view it as my hating Houston and think I should just move. But the reality is, I just want better for the city and want Houston to be the best it can be, and it is because I love the city so.

On another note, ferronfunctionals I agree with you on the fiscal conservative and cheap thing. Spend the money you need the first time, so one doesn't have to go back to re-do it because of fiscally cutting corners the first time. I think some, especially in this city, have to learn to understand that spending a lot of money does not always equate to wasting it. I don't think you can find a whole lot of people in this day that WANT to waste money. Ferronfuncitonals is correct in that EFFICENCY is the key.

By the way, I have been described as a Democratic liberal with a visible conservative streak, a bed-wetting liberal, a moderate, and a conservative, so gather what you will from that.

Edited November 23, 2005 by VelvetJ

[sevfiv]

"every man takes the limits of his own vision for the limits of the world"

[DJ V Lawrence]

OK now . . . to test the next part of my theory, can everybody submit their Social Security # and their birth date . . . ha ha, kidding.

Torchlight beat me to the punch . . . almost.

Well, here’s my “theory” . . . and please don’t flame me . . . it’s just observations I’ve made.

I’ve noticed that a lot of “hate America” rhetoric comes from the Left. That the USA is the root of all evil, that we are destroying the world, that our corporations are evil. That we should try to be like the rest of the world. . . be like France and Germany, how dare we point out the corruption at the United Nations, that we are a big bully, that we pollute the world, we’re destroying the ozone layer, we’re not good stewards of the environment, we should share our nuclear technology . . . to ensure that we won’t take over the earth. etc. etc. etc.

This hate America talk just blows my mind. I can’t possibly conceive how anyone could hate America. You see, I was born a US citizen, but have lived overseas most of my life. We would travel back to the US for an annual Christmas vacation . . . so I feel that I had a foot in both worlds; that I was equally comfortable in or out of the States. Having lived amongst foreigners (most of my life), I saw first hand their sheer awe and admiration for all things American. To just be able to visit the United States was way beyond anyone’s dream. So, many would do the next best thing . . .be close to something from the States. For example: If a kid were to bring a pack of Bubblelicious to school . . . he would be the instant cool kid on campus, all his friends would just want to see the packet, and possibly touch it . . . it was “stateside” the term given to items originating from the USA. No one would dare eat it . . . even the owner of the gum. Adults would “hang out” at the airport just to catch a glimpse of the beautiful Pan Am stewardesses filing out the terminal. Take our current border problem . . . ever thought why people are willing to risk their LIFE just to set foot in the US? I fear that I’m not articulate enough to describe to you folks how most of the world views us. Take the Hollywood / Anglo depiction of Shangri-La . . . well, that pales in comparison to how most of the world views “America” . . the land of milk and honey, where streets are paved in gold, where chocolate flows out of fountains . . .

Having lived on the outside looking in, I feel that I am better able to appreciate what I have . . . no matter how little it currently is. This is the crux of my “theory” . . . that people that have been exposed to the “real” world outside the US, that have traveled a lot, can see that we are not that bad. In fact, we are really good! That most of the anti-America thought comes from people that don’t have a basis of comparison.

Torchlight predicted what I was about to say “. . . conservatives are more (ENLIGHTENED) because they’ve seen more of the world and know how damn good we have it. . . “ Well, I sincerely had the term “appreciative” in mind. Conservative are more appreciative because they’ve seen more of the world and know how good we have it. I guess it’s the political filter that we are both using, that gives rise to the difference in terminology.

In conclusion, I have to admit that the results of this unscientific poll proves that my theory is baseless. I enjoyed reading the responses, thanks for participating. Happy Thanksgiving.

You don't want my credit card #, mate?

Nah for real, I think you will hear a lot more anti-American remarks from the left simply because Bush and Bush's policies are in office, and like his Elephant brothas (um, Republicans) are currently running the House, Senate, and Special Olympics (which is where I heard they first found Tom Delay.)

I'm pretty sure if a lefty like Andy Pettitte were in office(j/k), and like, left-handed dudes and dudettes were running around the House and Senate, the Conservatives would probably say similar negatives about America simply because they wouldn't like who the people chose to run it.

If I could choose anyone to be president, it would be Monica Lewinski. 'Cause, like, she doesn't care if it's more to the left or to the right...nevermind

Edited November 24, 2005 by DJ V Lawrence

[ssullivan]

Interesting thread. Just to throw in my 2 cents...

US (44/50 states)

Canada

Mexico

UK

Politically... moderate to liberal on social issues; moderate on fiscal issues. And while I don't hate America I see some of our true faults and areas where we need definite improvement when it comes to our dealings with the rest of the world. And I don't believe that we are always the best at everything. I guess you could call it "humble" patriotism -- I acknowledge we're the true leader in a lot of things but that we're far from perfect and that there are things we could learn from other parts of the world to make life better here.

[KinkaidAlum]

37 of the 50 US states plus DC

Canada

Mexico

Belize

Venezuela

Brazil

Uruguay

Argentina

Virgin Islands

Aruba

Bahamas

England

Italy

Greece

Egypt

Israel

Turkey

Japan

Hong Kong

China

Singapore

Progressive Liberal.

Love America but think we are headed in the wrong direction. Wish that the Moral Majority would discuss some real moral issues; like war, the death penalty, torture, homelessness, child hunger, poverty, minimum wages rather than living wages, lack of healthcare and insurance for a growing number of citizens, inadequate public education spending...

Instead, the M&Mers seem to just talk about New Orleans getting what it deserved, executing Chavez, limiting reproductive freedom, Hollywood, and the evil homosexual agenda.

As for the other stuff, I give a strong DITTO to VelvetJ's response. Wanting better/more isn't hating.

[pineda]

As far as labels go, I think when we start putting people in boxes with labels; liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican, etc. and focus on that, it detracts our attention away from the real issues. I wish we didn't define people that way. Why not just call everyone an Independent, and let them make up their minds on each issue rather than saying that if that they support one issue, then they must be so and so and therefore, they support some other issue, which as we all know, just doesn't make sense.

As far as hate goes, I hate that politicians will go out and court the public's opinion, and share their enthusiasm on issues, but the only that way in which they actually get elected to office is if they take the money from special interest groups in order to run commercials on prime-time TV and drive-time radio, who then get assurances from these politicians that their own special interest agendas get protected. Until this get fixed, nothing will change, and we will continue to spin our wheels in the mud.

But how to do this? When someone asks you what you are, tell them Independent Thinker, and then ask them what issues that they would like to discuss instead. Think for yourself and make a stand that you will not just regurgitate whatever you've heard on radio or TV shows and ask that they do the same.

I think sometimes politicians and their handlers like to throw dispersion upon the opinions of some groups that they don't agree with by name-calling tactics. Refuse to sucked into that crap, ignore and resist that, and demand that the politicians that we've all put into office answer your questions on issues. And if you can't get in touch with your politicians, then perhaps they're too out of touch and perhaps you'll remember that next time you step into the polling site, and not just pull the levers conveniently labelled one way or another. Start looking at the issues now and find someone you like, if possible, who represents your views. If they represent your views on one issue, but not another, find out why, and share with them why you think the way you do. Get to know the people who making decisions that affect your life.

Edited December 3, 2005 by pineda