Electric Scooters Sharing

[Reefmonkey]

In the environmental industry we have a name for business models that oversell their environmental benefits: "greenwashing." And it seems that is just what is going on with the dockless scooter industry. When a life-cycle analysis is done, it turns out a dockless scooter share emits a little over 200 grams of CO2 per mile traveled. A car emits just over 400. "That's great, it's just half the emissions of a car!" you might say, but considering how carbon-intensive passenger cars are, something like a scooter should be considerably lower. Even a city bus has lower CO2 emission per passenger mile than a dockless e-scooter does. The main reasons for this are:

 

1. Shared scooters don't last very long. They get very heavy use, far heavier than a privately owned electric scooter would get, and unlike a privately owned scooter, get left out in the elements. They get used and abused, and also stolen, trashed, and unfortunately even thrown in rivers. That means shared scooters have a service life no higher than about 24 months on the high end, and as low as 6 months on the low end. That means new ones have to be manufactured to replace them, and the manufacturing process is very carbon-intensive.
2. Having "juicers" (and whatever Bird calls its freelancers) driving all around the city in conventional cars searching for scooters to charge is very carbon-intensive. It's also really inefficiently done. Chargers are paid by the number of scooters they pick up, and can collect any scooters in any location in their city once the scooters become available for pickup, without specified location routes, areas for pickup, or specified scooters, and even without any regard for the scooters' batteries' state of charge, meaning they get paid for picking up fully-charged scooters. 

 

All this might not be that much of a problem if  dockless scooter rentals were significantly replacing miles traveled by more CO2-intensive forms of transportation, like passenger cars, but that does not seem to be the case. When researchers surveyed  e-scooter riders, only 34% said they would have otherwise used their own car or Uber/Lyft for the trip. 11% would have taken the bus (lower CO2 than a scooter), nearly half would have biked or walked (much lower CO2 than a scooter), and 7% would have just skipped the trip. That means that two thirds of the time people use scooters, they are contributing MORE CO2 emissions than they would have if scooter share was not an option.

 

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab2da8#erlab2da8f3

Edited November 3, 2020 by Reefmonkey

[wilcal]

Just as a quick aside, I've been emailing a bunch of public officials/asking at public meetings and trying to figure out where the law actually stands.

 

At the moment: ebikes are allowed everywhere. State law specifically prohibits municipalities from restricting them where normal bikes are permitted (except for some mountain bike trails). City is going to work on having ebikes specifically included in language via ordinance.

 

Scooters.... are not very politically popular. They are permitted by a lack of regulation basically everywhere except for Buffalo Bayou Park and some private parks like Discovery Green (who have large/new no scooter signs). 

[trymahjong]

I confess I don’t know much about this subject; but own a electric scooter. Also own old fashioned scooter that I self propelled myself in. Plus all grandkids have these self propelled scooters.

When I read this thread— I am always wondering about COH existing ban on kids using non electric scooters on sidewalks like those at Buffalo Bayou. There was a sarcastic Park Ranger who, informed me that kids scooters were banned at Buffalo Bayou and I should leave immediately or get ticketed. 
Do they ticket “ shared” electric scooters when ridden at Buffalo Bayou?

[wilcal]

4 hours ago, trymahjong said:

I confess I don’t know much about this subject; but own a electric scooter. Also own old fashioned scooter that I self propelled myself in. Plus all grandkids have these self propelled scooters.

When I read this thread— I am always wondering about COH existing ban on kids using non electric scooters on sidewalks like those at Buffalo Bayou. There was a sarcastic Park Ranger who, informed me that kids scooters were banned at Buffalo Bayou and I should leave immediately or get ticketed. 
Do they ticket “ shared” electric scooters when ridden at Buffalo Bayou?

 

All scooters, electric and non-electric are banned at Buffalo Bayou Park by city ordinance.  All can be ticketed. 

[trymahjong]

15 hours ago, wilcal said:

scooters, electric and non-electric are banned at Buffalo Bayou Park by city ordinance.  All can be ticketed. 

Thanks— good to know....... just wondering how COH will let the users of shared electric scooters know.....

[wilcal]

42 minutes ago, trymahjong said:

Thanks— good to know....... just wondering how COH will let the users of shared electric scooters know.....

 

In other cities, they have made the scooter sharing companies use geo-fencing. Basically, the scooters shut off if they leave a certain approved area or enter an unapproved area. 

[Andrew Ewert]

Yeah, I had an annoying moment in St. Louis when I tried to ride a shared scooter to the Gateway Arch, and it refused to let me drop off the scooter at a certain place on the sidewalk because the geofence was convinced I was trying to leave it in the restricted park area (I wasn't). Ended up having to go back a block and drop it off.

[Urbannizer]

Spotted at Discovery Green. Saw a number of people riding them around.

[hindesky]

At every entrance to Discovery Green they have signs saying " No Scooters" and ramps that are meant to run electrical cords thru them that scooters have a hard time riding over. I guess it's been a problem. They also have signs with a list of things that aren't allowed including bicycles, roller skates, and skate boards but these signs are less prominent in the entrances than the scooters signs. I ride my bike through the park almost every time I ride and so do lots of others, but I've never been questioned about it.

 

[hindesky]

Basically anything that has wheels (except wheelchairs and kids strollers) are not allowed. I still ride in on occasion and see little kids of their little push scooters.

[samagon]

On 1/3/2021 at 2:13 PM, hindesky said:

Basically anything that has wheels (except wheelchairs and kids strollers) are not allowed. I still ride in on occasion and see little kids of their little push scooters.

I had mentioned this in the downtown thread for DG, but I'm quite shocked that someone in authority from DG hasn't removed those speed bumps yet for fear of safety. considering that is not the intended use of those things it is a lawsuit in waiting. I imagine even if someone faceplanted off of one of those on a scooter that person would have a very strong court case.

as far as riding bikes through DG, I've never gotten off my bike. as long as their security dudes are riding on bikes, I'm not going to hop off and walk my bike. granted, if I were to run someone over, that would probably be no good for me, so I exercise pretty extreme caution.

Edited January 5, 2021 by samagon

[wilcal]

I honestly can't imagine that they are ADA accessible. 

 

Edit: I emailed Gabe at the Mayor's office for people with disabilities to get his thoughts. 

Edit2: Gabe said that his team would investigate for any ADA issues. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by wilcal

[Reefmonkey]

Good for you, wilcal, I understand that scooters may have become a nuisance in Discovery Green, but blocking off access to a public park for people in wheelchairs is simply not an acceptable solution.

[wilcal]

The people that were running the scooter rental at Discovery Green have moved to.... Buffalo Bayou Park. The  one other place that they are specifically excluded, lol.

There is a scooter shop in EaDo, and it looks to be them that are renting them. 

[Triton]

Man, honestly don't know what to make of the no biking sign in DG... I love riding my bike through there, as long as there aren't a lot of people.

[samagon]

On 1/17/2021 at 10:02 PM, Triton said:

Man, honestly don't know what to make of the no biking sign in DG... I love riding my bike through there, as long as there aren't a lot of people.

I don't see how the security guards they employ can enforce the rule, seeing as they are on bikes as well. my guess is it's a step to try and resolve themselves of any liability should there be a bike/ped accident. 

[wilcal]

9 minutes ago, samagon said:

I don't see how the security guards they employ can enforce the rule, seeing as they are on bikes as well. my guess is it's a step to try and resolve themselves of any liability should there be a bike/ped accident. 

It is a private park so they can do just about whatever they want. Same reason why Buffalo Bayou Park Conservancy can drive gas-powered golf carts around while they are banned for the general public. 

[samagon]

On 1/19/2021 at 9:23 AM, wilcal said:

It is a private park so they can do just about whatever they want. Same reason why Buffalo Bayou Park Conservancy can drive gas-powered golf carts around while they are banned for the general public. 

the city owns the land, it is managed by a private partnership. 

https://www.discoverygreen.com/history-of-discovery-green#:~:text=Discovery Green exemplifies a successful,operates and maintains the park.

Quote

The City of Houston acquired a portion of the land in 2002.  When the rest of the property went up for sale, a group of philanthropists led by Maconda Brown O’Connor of the Brown Foundation, and Nancy G. Kinder of the Kinder Foundation approached then-Mayor Bill White with their idea of turning the space into an urban park. The Mayor agreed and became a strong advocate of a public-private partnership. Several other philanthropic foundations joined the effort, including the Wortham Foundation and the Houston Endowment, Inc. 

 

The City of Houston purchased the remainder of the land in 2004 and created the framework for the park’s construction and operations, including the role of the new organization, Discovery Green Conservancy, incorporated in 2004...

it is a public park, public land at least.

not that it makes a difference in the context of what the security guards can/can't do to people riding scooters, or bicycles, but I'm fairly confident that the rules exist to make it harder for a person to take legal action against the conservancy should a cyclist run over a kid.

anyway, I've been riding my bike in and around discogreen since it opened and I've never had a security guard approach me about riding through the park, and there have been plenty of opportunities for them to do so. 

I have had a security guard approach me about taking photos in the park with my phone, which he said I wasn't allowed to do. which is where the distinction of public land is important, even if it is managed by a private party. I stopped, but I told him he should ask his manager for better guidance on how to not violate the constitution. this was very early in the parks life, and I haven't been approached since. I doubt my experience was what had them adjust their enforcement. I'm sure someone else took a bit more of an aggressive response than I did.

Edited January 20, 2021 by samagon

[wilcal]

7 hours ago, samagon said:

the city owns the land, it is managed by a private partnership. 

https://www.discoverygreen.com/history-of-discovery-green#:~:text=Discovery Green exemplifies a successful,operates and maintains the park.

it is a public park, public land at least.

not that it makes a difference in the context of what the security guards can/can't do to people riding scooters, or bicycles, but I'm fairly confident that the rules exist to make it harder for a person to take legal action against the conservancy should a cyclist run over a kid.

anyway, I've been riding my bike in and around discogreen since it opened and I've never had a security guard approach me about riding through the park, and there have been plenty of opportunities for them to do so. 

I have had a security guard approach me about taking photos in the park with my phone, which he said I wasn't allowed to do. which is where the distinction of public land is important, even if it is managed by a private party. I stopped, but I told him he should ask his manager for better guidance on how to not violate the constitution. this was very early in the parks life, and I haven't been approached since. I doubt my experience was what had them adjust their enforcement. I'm sure someone else took a bit more of an aggressive response than I did.

NRG Stadium, Minute Maid, BBVA Stadium, etc are all on public land but they are still private entities that have control of them and do have the ability to limit your constitutional rights. Same thing with the Zoo, or private events at GRB, and so on. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by wilcal

[thedistrict84]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2021/03/23/electronic-scooters-could-soon-be-banned-from-houston-sidewalks/

Article regarding proposed amendments to City ordinances targeting scooters. Article hints at but doesn’t really explicitly say that the proposed amendments are intended to treat scooters the same as bicycles—especially Chapter 45, which already bans bicycle use on sidewalks in “business districts” (i.e., practically all of downtown, Midtown, and most major streets through Montrose, The Heights, the East End, etc.).

Edited March 24, 2021 by thedistrict84

[samagon]

59 minutes ago, thedistrict84 said:

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2021/03/23/electronic-scooters-could-soon-be-banned-from-houston-sidewalks/

Article regarding proposed amendments to City ordinances targeting scooters. Article hints at but doesn’t really explicitly say that the proposed amendments are intended to treat scooters the same as bicycles—especially Chapter 45, which already bans bicycle use on sidewalks in “business districts” (i.e., practically all of downtown, Midtown, and most major streets through Montrose, The Heights, the East End, etc.).

good for them.

I hope the city continues to promote safe alternatives for people that aren't walking, or in cars.

[BeerNut]

Went bike riding downtown yesterday and there were scooters everywhere.  I saw several electric scooter rental places setup in parking lots.

[BeerNut]

I rode these in Seattle last week.  Were more comfortable for longer rides than the scooters.

[pokemonizepic]

On 8/23/2021 at 2:29 PM, BeerNut said:

I rode these in Seattle last week.  Were more comfortable for longer rides than the scooters.

they have these in austin as well, they're amazing 

[wilcal]

Yep, they are WAY more stable. 

[samagon]

lower center of gravity + bigger wheels. both wins for stability.

[Urbannizer]

I'm tempted to try one of those but being 6'3 I'd look and feel pretty awkward on haha. I use the Link scooters, they have a wider base and larger wheels than Limes which makes them more durable. Also brakes on both sides. Uber JUMP electric bikes are also a great option.

 

[Montrose1100]

17 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

I'm tempted to try one of those but being 6'3 I'd look and feel pretty awkward on haha. I use the Link scooters, they have a wider base and larger wheels than Limes which makes them more durable. Also brakes on both sides. Uber JUMP electric bikes are also a great option.

 

Who cares what you look like as along as you have fun.

I'm tempted to buy one and scoot around the east end.

[Amlaham]

I rode the electric scooters in downtown last weekend with my friends and it was honestly very fun. The streets were way more lively than normal. The scooters also were VERY prevalent in downtown. If you drive around at night on the weekend, you'll be sure to spot at least 20+ scooters.

[adr]

5 minutes ago, Amlaham said:

I rode the electric scooters in downtown last weekend with my friends and it was honestly very fun. The streets were way more lively than normal. The scooters also were VERY prevalent in downtown. If you drive around at night on the weekend, you'll be sure to spot at least 20+ scooters.

Glad you had fun in Downtown.  It's a great neighborhood in the evenings whatever your interests.  My advice to anyone riding these downtown is to mind the one-way nature of the street-grid, and keep your head on a swivel for the cars (I see them daily) going the wrong way down streets - they cannot see the traffic lights (none are pointed towards wrong-way drivers) and they absolutely blow through intersections at full speed.

Have fun and be safe!