Retail Center At 250 West 20th St.

[s3mh]

http://www.theleadernews.com/?p=9283

 

Same guys who are doing Harolds.  But, they are not going to try to save any part of the church.  I just hope the do not put in a strip center type development and make the new development an extension of 19th st shops. 

 

 

[JJxvi]

I clicked it because I wondered if you meant Baptist Temple, then I read it and its almost like you didn't even read it to come up with that post.  They aren't selling the entire church and it sounds like they are incorporating elements from the buildings they are selling into the new development.

[s3mh]

I clicked it because I wondered if you meant Baptist Temple, then I read it and its almost like you didn't even read it to come up with that post.  They aren't selling the entire church and it sounds like they are incorporating elements from the buildings they are selling into the new development.

 

From the article:

 

Those renovations will almost entirely update the 65,000-square-foot worship, classroom and office space in what’s known as the T.C. Jester Building. It will provide for a new 300-seat sanctuary, children’s areas and modifications to bring the facilities up to local and federal codes.

The church said it would preserve a number of historic features from the original buildings to incorporate them into the renovation.

 

The church is using elements of the buildings that will be demolished to use in the renovation of the church building that is not being sold.  Braun is not using elements of the old church in the new development.  It is almost like you didn't even read it in order to come up with a post accusing me of not reading it.

[fwki]

http://www.theleadernews.com/?p=9283

 

...they are not going to try to save any part of the church.....

 

Did you read the article?  They are saving parts of the church.  Of course they won't have a cash register in the tabernacle. They will save certain elements for appropriate use in the remaining worship area.  JJ was pointing out that your original post was alarmist and incorrect.

[s3mh]

Did you read the article?  They are saving parts of the church.  Of course they won't have a cash register in the tabernacle. They will save certain elements for appropriate use in the remaining worship area.  JJ was pointing out that your original post was alarmist and incorrect.

 

Braun is not incorporating elements of the church into the new development.  That is what JJ was claiming.  There was nothing alarmist or incorrect about my original post.  Any adult could read the article and get all the details.  I just summarized what was happening. 

[JJxvi]

The implications of your post is clearly that Braun bought a church (Heights Baptist), is going to demolish it for retail, and that no part of the church will be saved.  Then you go on to give your opinion about it.  Do you claim that this is not what your original post says?

[s3mh]

The implications of your post is clearly that Braun bought a church (Heights Baptist), is going to demolish it for retail, and that no part of the church will be saved.  Then you go on to give your opinion about it.  Do you claim that this is not what your original post says?

 

I made my comments after I posted the article because I was hoping that adults would read the article and take my comments along with the article.  I did not feel any need to specify which of the church buildings would be demolished and which would be saved because it was identified in the article.  If I had not posted the article, there would be a valid basis to claim that my post was not accurate.  But, I did post the article and never claimed that it was inaccurate.  What is 100% inaccurate is the claim that the new development is using elements of the old church.  They are not.  The church renovation is doing that.  But that did not prevent you from claiming otherwise.

[JJxvi]

If you think your post was an accurate reflection, and mine was childish lies, then whatever.

 

Lets get back on topic then and discuss the following events.

 

 

Braun buys Heights Baptist on 20th to demolish for retail

 

Same guys who are doing Harolds.  But, they are not going to try to save any part of the church. 

 

Real shame that Heights Baptist was sold. I can't believe no part of Heights Baptist is going to be saved.  Hopefully the new development is strip center retail, because I like it.

Edited May 16, 2013 by JJxvi

[s3mh]

If you think your post was an accurate reflection, and mine was childish lies, then whatever.

 

Lets get back on topic then and discuss the following events.

 

 

 

Real shame that Heights Baptist was sold. I can't believe no part of Heights Baptist is going to be saved.  Hopefully the new development is strip center retail, because I like it.

 

I said that Braun isn't going to save any part of the church.  That is 100% correct.  The Heights Baptist congregation is going to save the part they are not selling.  If you have trouble reading articles I post, I will be sure to do a full summary of all the details in the future so you won't be mislead by my short summaries. 

[Angostura]

So, by demolishing and building a new structure, will the developer be required to include surface parking (decreasing the building footprint)?

 

How do other 19th St businesses meet the parking regs? A net increase in retail/restaurant space will require more total parking in the area, no?

 

It's not a huge parcel, maybe 10,000 s.f., but that will still probably require 50-100 new parking spaces.

 

 

 

[s3mh]

From Heights Baptist's press release:

 

"We look for opportunities in areas that are good or getting better," said Dan Braun, president. "The area around 19th and 20th Streets has not changed much in the last 20 years, but we love the demographics and the neighborhood. The strong interest in our Harold's space indicates that the church property could draw the same attention."

 

Braun said the firm was predisposed toward building new retail and restaurant space on the site in keeping with the character of 19th Street. He said the firm recently passed on a national restaurant chain that expressed interest in the Harold's space in favor of a lease to Torchy's Tacos, a quirky Austin-based eatery that plans to build an outdoor patio and a small organic grocery store there.

 

It seems like Braun has a better feel for the neighborhood than others.  As for parking, I wonder whether the church is selling the lot on 19th street for parking?  There is certainly no way to put in enough spaces on the lot on 20th for new restaurants/retail.

[JJxvi]

I think its probably more like 25,000 SF.  Also the article linked says that the church considered selling their lot as well, but that the price received for what they did sell was good enough that they didn't have to.

[JJxvi]

The church is also called Baptist Temple, since some haven't seemed to pick up on that yet.

[SilverJK]

19th street is in a position to take off right now.  Everything shuts down at like 6pm normally, but with the addition of Torchy's and a few of the other places, maybe it will actually be somewhere you can go and grab a bite even if you work until 7pm.  I'd like to see the shops stay open later too...   as far as the rest of the post... S3mh being S3mh.  Alarmist post, indicating the entire church would be demolished...  then blaming other people for not reading the article... I read the article because I didn't thing your post was accurate... reading the article confirmed what I had heard previously, that part of land was being sold and the main church would continue to operate normally.

[SilverJK]

I said that Braun isn't going to save any part of the church.  That is 100% correct.  The Heights Baptist congregation is going to save the part they are not selling.  If you have trouble reading articles I post, I will be sure to do a full summary of all the details in the future so you won't be mislead by my short summaries. 

 

Methinks you should re-read your own Topic Title...

Edited May 16, 2013 by SilverJK

[s3mh]

19th street is in a position to take off right now.  Everything shuts down at like 6pm normally, but with the addition of Torchy's and a few of the other places, maybe it will actually be somewhere you can go and grab a bite even if you work until 7pm.  I'd like to see the shops stay open later too...   as far as the rest of the post... S3mh being S3mh.  Alarmist post, indicating the entire church would be demolished...  then blaming other people for not reading the article... I read the article because I didn't thing your post was accurate... reading the article confirmed what I had heard previously, that part of land was being sold and the main church would continue to operate normally.

 

The post is accurate.  You are just playing juvenille semantics because I did not spell out the terms of the sale in exquisite detail in typing out a title to a post.  The reason I did that was because it would be plainly obvious to anyone who read the article what was happening. 

 

And it looks like the dreaded dry restriction isn't the death of all commerce after all. 

[Texasota]

I really, really wish they would keep the church building and repurpose it into a "private" bar/club/venue. I'm not even joking. The biggest problem with 19th is its lack of nightlife, and, combined with DownHouse an alternative to Fitz's/Number's/Rudz etc would really help solve that

[RedScare]

And it looks like the dreaded dry restriction isn't the death of all commerce after all. 

 

No one ever said it was. But, no one wants the added paperwork associated with a club license. I will admit that you seem to be a big fan of added government regulations and paperwork in all endeavors, however. Having owned a restaurant with an alcohol permit, I can safely say that the fewer forms the better.

 

But hey, that's just me.

[RedScare]

I really, really wish they would keep the church building and repurpose it into a "private" bar/club/venue. I'm not even joking. The biggest problem with 19th is its lack of nightlife, and, combined with DownHouse an alternative to Fitz's/Number's/Rudz etc would really help solve that

 

It would be too close to the remaining church to get a license.

[JJxvi]

It's also connected to the Church some portion will need to be demoed on both sides regardless.

[Subdude]

And here we insert the usual warning:  posts with personal attacks will be deleted, or the topic closed. 

[s3mh]

I really, really wish they would keep the church building and repurpose it into a "private" bar/club/venue. I'm not even joking. The biggest problem with 19th is its lack of nightlife, and, combined with DownHouse an alternative to Fitz's/Number's/Rudz etc would really help solve that

 

Many people think the best part of 19th street is the lack of nightlife.  Many are not happy with how the bar scene on White Oak has created a little Washington Ave in the Heights.  I would like to see a few more restaurants on 19th and maybe another low key bar like Down House.  But a live music venue or big bar like Christian's would not be a good thing for 19th st. 

 

Repurposing the church buildings would be very difficult.  It is such an odd configuration of buildings due to the ad hoc nature of the growth and expansion of that church.  The 1912 building actually has a first floor that is a few feet under the street level.  Getting it to be ADA compliant would be a major undertaking.  I would love to see someone take a shot at it, but it would take more money than a local private investor is going to want to put up. 

[SilverJK]

Many people think the best part of 19th street is the lack of nightlife.  Many are not happy with how the bar scene on White Oak has created a little Washington Ave in the Heights.  I would like to see a few more restaurants on 19th and maybe another low key bar like Down House.  But a live music venue or big bar like Christian's would not be a good thing for 19th st. 

 

 

Ohhh... only you get to decide on what's good for 19th street.  As far as White oak goes... I lived near there about 6 years ago... between Fitz and Onion Creek, it was pretty crowded already, the new bars have added influx for sure, but not so much as anyone living nearby should be surprised.  It was already crowded on most weekends  (Fitz seemed to have more well known bands come through back then).  Since I have a regular office job (as I suppose many others on this site do) I'm generally working until 7.  19th street is dead by then.  I only get to enjoy 19th street on Saturday's and Sunday's. 

 

I'll try to use your approach method so maybe you will see the other side...

 

Many people work passed the time 19th street shops close, many are not happy with the lack of nighlife.  Many are saddened by the missed opporturnity for even an evening destination on 19th street.  The last thing needed is another overpriced pretentious bar like Down House (ones all you need).  I nice size jazz/blues bar would be awesome on 19th street.

[JJxvi]

I basically never go to 19th street.  The only hope for changing that right now is Torchy's. The closest I get is typically McDonald's or CVS on Yale.

[RedScare]

Maybe it has something to do with one's circle of friends, but I have never heard a single person say that about either 19th Street or White Oak. In fact, among those that I talk to, 19th Street is a dead zone after 5. We'd love to see a little life up there, and food and drink is what it takes. As for White Oak, I've heard nothing but good things. The only gripe is that there is not enough parking. 

 

I suppose different types may be averse to groups of people. White Oak is far from Washington Avenue. There are no niteclubs, other than the aforementioned Fitz's, There are two bars, one that predates all of us, and one that is not crowded. So, the reality is that anyone complaining about White Oake simply does not like people. 

[RedScare]

Many people think the best part of 19th street is the lack of nightlife.  Many are not happy with how the bar scene on White Oak has created a little Washington Ave in the Heights.  I would like to see a few more restaurants on 19th and maybe another low key bar like Down House.  But a live music venue or big bar like Christian's would not be a good thing for 19th st. 

 

Repurposing the church buildings would be very difficult.  It is such an odd configuration of buildings due to the ad hoc nature of the growth and expansion of that church.  The 1912 building actually has a first floor that is a few feet under the street level.  Getting it to be ADA compliant would be a major undertaking.  I would love to see someone take a shot at it, but it would take more money than a local private investor is going to want to put up. 

 

It just occurred to me how unlikely it is that anyone has ever uttered these statements to you, or anyone else. Since 19th Street shops all close at 5 or 6, the strip is dead after that. Therefore, no one would be anywhere near 19th Street to even notice whether a live music venue or big bar was even open at night. I'd be willing to bet that the shop owners wish there was a draw to bring people to 19th Street at night. Some of them might stay open later.

 

In conclusion, I can think of no reason why anyone would be opposed to more business and entertainment opportunities on 19th Street after 5 pm. I am all for it.

[JJxvi]

I actually take it back, I do go to 19th on occasion but not where we are talking about.  I go up Nicholson to Penzey's occasionally, and I eat at Collina's and Thai Spice...basically the places in the suburban style strip malls.  I'm never going to run into a Mom and Pop like a middle aged woman looking for crafts, I'm only going somewhere that has something I need, or food, or drink.

[fwki]

The "White Oak to become Washington Avenue" fears died out long ago.....no night clubs for db's.  Fitz's is decidedly not a night club and predates God when it started as a Polish (Czech?) dance hall.  Years ago I met one of the original musicians who played there and he was older than George Burns.  It's definitely more of a restaurant strip and is set to become more so. At midnight, even on weekends, White Oak empties like downtown at 5pm.  I think it fits perfectly in the neighborhood except for relatively minor parking issues.

[s3mh]

It just occurred to me how unlikely it is that anyone has ever uttered these statements to you, or anyone else. Since 19th Street shops all close at 5 or 6, the strip is dead after that. Therefore, no one would be anywhere near 19th Street to even notice whether a live music venue or big bar was even open at night. I'd be willing to bet that the shop owners wish there was a draw to bring people to 19th Street at night. Some of them might stay open later.

 

In conclusion, I can think of no reason why anyone would be opposed to more business and entertainment opportunities on 19th Street after 5 pm. I am all for it.

 

Check out White Oak and Studewood on a Friday or Saturday night.  I cannot think of anyone who wants that for 19th street. 

 

More restaurants would be great.  Everyone wants that.  Another low key bar like Down House would be great.  But some club packing in tons of people to see Sparkle Pony would do nothing for 19th street after 6 pm except to leave a mess to clean up at 6 am the next day.  No one going to a big bar or live music club is going to shop for antiques, boutique clothing, or home decor on 19th street before they go to see Sparkle Pony.  When was the last time you heard someone say "dude, I am so wasted.  Let's go shop for a credenza!!!!".

[Texasota]

Yeah White Oak is fine. Not personally a big fan of Christian's, but White Oak has managed to stay pretty diverse despite adding businesses. I did prefer Beer Island to Little Woodrow's, but that's mostly just nostalgia.

 

I don't want 19th to become Washington, but the fact that it shuts down by 7 or 8 *is* a problem and a wasted opportunity. The advantage of a venue over a bar or restaurant is that it becomes a destination. It pulls varying crowds depending on whos playing, and helps draw other bars in restaurants in to chase the new crowds.

 

I'm not a fan of the fact that that area is dry, but, as DownHouse shows, that doesnt totally preclude new places opening. I lived in NC for two years, and the whole state is "dry" in the same way. You just get used to becoming a "member" of every  bar.