St. Martin's Church At 717 Sage Rd.

[20sGirl]

I only just recently saw this beautiful cathedral on Woodway near Sage the other day. It is absolutely beautiful! I didn't think they built stuff like this anymore.

Just wanted to share if you haven't seen it. I don't know how to post photos so here's a link to the website with a few interior photos.

http://www.stmartinsepiscopal.org/photos/archive-c.jpg

http://www.stmartinsepiscopal.org/2004-fol.htm

[YakuzaIce]

Wow that is a beautiful church. Do you know when it was built?

I'll Post the pics.

[jmancuso]

i am a member of that church but haven't been since they built the new building. kinda tells you how often i do the church thing but i did manage to take this shortly after it was built...

it was finished around late 2002.

[Lowbrow]

Call me the thread resurrector.

I drive past this guy as often as possible. I have quite the collection of pictures taken of churches all over the world. A fascination of mine, and until seeing this church here in Houston, I thought my hobby would fall fallow.

Any other gems thrown my way would be appreciated. I like the methodist church next to the MFA aswell. Oh and the little squat church on W. Alabama near Hazard, with the square turret.

[pineda]

Lowbrow-

My absolute favorite is the Catholic church located right on the Riverwalk in San Antonio, I think it's called St. Joseph's (not sure), but it is so beautiful!

[Lowbrow]

I'll have to look it up. I been meaning to get out there to see the mission trail.

My current favorite

Old Cambridge Baptist in Cambridge, Mass.:

I'm a sucker for the gothic.

[MidtownCoog]

You can see St. Martins all the way from Chimney Rock at 59. Makes quite an impression.

THIS is what a chruch should look like. Not Compaq Centerish.

[pineda]

nice article and photos of St. Joseph's in San Antonio!

A little background on "St. Joske's"

[Subdude]

Call me the thread resurrector.

I drive past this guy as often as possible. I have quite the collection of pictures taken of churches all over the world. A fascination of mine, and until seeing this church here in Houston, I thought my hobby would fall fallow.

Any other gems thrown my way would be appreciated. I like the methodist church next to the MFA aswell. Oh and the little squat church on W. Alabama near Hazard, with the square turret.

Resurrect away! I like that squat church on W Alabama too. The way it sits so close to the sidewalk really makes it fit well into the neighborhood. There's also a nice church on Rice at Greenbriar.

Some old Houston ones:

Central Christian

First Baptist

First Methodist

Synagogue

Second Pres.

Saint Pauls

[Lowbrow]

Wow thanks for the links on St. Josephs. I find this picture astounding.

Very nice pics there of the old Houston churches. I think I may have to grab a bus day pass and wander the city some to take some photos.

As a side note, I'll be spending Christmas at Sagrada Familia in Barcelona.

[texas911]

I love St Martins, its what the Co-Cathedral should aspire to be.

[ssullivan]

I somehow missed the post in this thread of the old church pictures that's been here since December. Wow! Those are really great, and I had not seen most of them before. It's a shame most of them are gone now -- First Methodist is the only one of that group I know is still standing. Second Presbyterian is now Grace Presbyterian, out in the Westchase area, and the old downtown building is long gone. St. Paul's Methodist still exists; it was originally in Midtown but moved to its present location at the corner of Main and Binz across from the MFAH decades ago. And of course First Baptist is still around, in a modern building off the Katy Freeway that IMO looks more like an office building than a church from the outside. Does anyone know where that synagogue was, or where Central Christian was?

[arche_757]

My favorite big church - Koln Cathedral in Germany. Favorite little one is the chapel on the walk up from Burg Eltz also in Germany (I have a pic - need to post it).

Havent been to Florence or Istanbul but Hagia Sophia and the Duomo are tops on my list as well. Actually Ulm's cathedral in Germany is pretty damn impressive. 520 ft tall!!! Quite a view!!!

[KewpieCleaners]

Sorry, folks, but St. Martin's, however well-intentioned, exudes O.T.T. pastiche.

[Houston19514]

Sorry, folks, but St. Martin's, however well-intentioned, exudes O.T.T. pastiche.

Whatever

[MidtownCoog]

Is this West of 288?

I could swear its a Baptist church now.

[TJones]

Is this West of 288?

I could swear its a Baptist church now.

Did they leave the humungous "star of david" in the middle there ?

[KewpieCleaners]

Whatever

Sorry if you disagree, but you could offer something more than a juvenile dismaissal when you do it.

I think that the scale of St. Martin's is impressive. The details, however, are a bit overdone. I thought that, as a modern rendition of the Gothic style, some restraint might be used. The design is very busy, however.

The interior, though a grand expanse, is very cluttered at the east end. An organ and choir at the east end, behind an ornate faux Victorian roodscreen-sans rood-just seems a bit too much to me. Facing the choir towards the congregation also seems out of place in a traditional Episcopal church building.

If they wanted a "traditional" design, the organ and choir should not be the ultimate focal point in the room; iit should be the altar. And six candles on the screen behind the altar? Has there been a shift in St. Martin's eucharistic theology? Or was it just something else to throw in?

As I said before, the scale is impressive, and intention seemed right, but the final product seems to be a pastiche of "traditional" church design elements.

[Houston19514]

Sorry if you disagree, but you could offer something more than a juvenile dismaissal when you do it.

I think that the scale of St. Martin's is impressive. The details, however, are a bit overdone. I thought that, as a modern rendition of the Gothic style, some restraint might be used. The design is very busy, however.

The interior, though a grand expanse, is very cluttered at the east end. An organ and choir at the east end, behind an ornate faux Victorian roodscreen-sans rood-just seems a bit too much to me. Facing the choir towards the congregation also seems out of place in a traditional Episcopal church building.

If they wanted a "traditional" design, the organ and choir should not be the ultimate focal point in the room; iit should be the altar. And six candles on the screen behind the altar? Has there been a shift in St. Martin's eucharistic theology? Or was it just something else to throw in?

As I said before, the scale is impressive, and intention seemed right, but the final product seems to be a pastiche of "traditional" church design elements.

Sorry, but your earlier post gave us nothing to agree or disagree with, just a pretentious and dare I say, juvenile, dismissal of the structure.

Your latest post, however, is very interesting and actually tells us something. I have not seen the building up close, so I can really neither agree nor disagree with anything you have written. But I find your observations very interesting and informative and they make me want to see the structure even more than before. One question, you complain that the design is very busy for a Gothic style. I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that the Gothic style is a very busy style. Do I have my styles mixed up?

[Houston19514]

Sorry if you disagree, but you could offer something more than a juvenile dismaissal when you do it.

I think that the scale of St. Martin's is impressive. The details, however, are a bit overdone. I thought that, as a modern rendition of the Gothic style, some restraint might be used. The design is very busy, however.

The interior, though a grand expanse, is very cluttered at the east end. An organ and choir at the east end, behind an ornate faux Victorian roodscreen-sans rood-just seems a bit too much to me. Facing the choir towards the congregation also seems out of place in a traditional Episcopal church building.

If they wanted a "traditional" design, the organ and choir should not be the ultimate focal point in the room; iit should be the altar. And six candles on the screen behind the altar? Has there been a shift in St. Martin's eucharistic theology? Or was it just something else to throw in?

As I said before, the scale is impressive, and intention seemed right, but the final product seems to be a pastiche of "traditional" church design elements.

I just spent some time on St. Martin's website. They have a nice selection of pictures. It appears to be a VERY traditional Episcopal church layout. See, for example Christ Church Cathedral downtown and the National Cathedral in Washington DC, both of which also have the choir "facing" the congregation.

They also both have ornate rood screens.

I don't really understand your comment about the organ and choir being the ultimate focal point in the room. From the photos, it seems clear that the altar is indeed the ultimate focal point. In any event, the arrangement is VERY traditional and can be found in traditional gothic and episcopal churches around the world. I'm pretty sure I've seen the six candle thing many times as well, but I would imagine that was determined by someone with a firmer theological grounding than either you or I, or, for that matter, the architect.

Also, it appears to me to be a quite-restrained (modernized, if you will) rendition of the gothic style. It is positively austere compared to the older gothic cathedrals such as The National Cathedral, St. Patrick's in NYC, etc.

[KewpieCleaners]

For an understanding of the Gothic style, one must return to its origin, which was the abbey at Citeaux, home of the Cistercian movement. This movement, in response to the Cluniac school, emphasized clean, simple lines in structure which would emphasize the liturgy. Granted, the Victorian neo-Gothic thrust could be very ornate, but we are not talking about Victorian design in this case.

both of which also have the choir "facing" the congregation

Unlike St. Martin's, these examples feature collegiate seating -- the Choir may be in front of the congregation, but they do not face the congregation. Additionally, the historic example of a "quire" in gothic design places the choir stalls in between the nave and the sanctuary, where the high altar is (focal point). This tradition of design is not evident at St. Martin's, as it is in the architectural design of the National Cathedral (early Edwardian).

The screen at St. Martin's is neither a rood screen (as it does not have a rood), nor is it a quire screen (as it does not separate the nave from the chancel.

And by the way,

I would imagine that was determined by someone with a firmer theological grounding than either you or I

I have a degree in theology from Oxford University.

Edited October 28, 2005 by KewpieCleaners

[houstonfella]

Wow. I guess I live in my own little world, but didn't realize Houston had such grand places of worship. Well, not really; there are some beautiful churches here, but .... St. Martins and I guess it is the Hindu Place of Worship that they are building, are pretty impressive to me. Thanks for the pics, guys.

[Houston19514]

Now that I've stopped laughing....

You offer up an interesting and, shall we say, unique history of the Gothic style.

Oh, and, by the way...

I am the King of Siam. ;-)

For an understanding of the Gothic style, one must return to its origin, which was the abbey at Citeaux, home of the Cistercian movement. This movement, in response to the Cluniac school, emphasized clean, simple lines in structure which would emphasize the liturgy. Granted, the Victorian neo-Gothic thrust could be very ornate, but we are not talking about Victorian design in this case.

Unlike St. Martin's, these examples feature collegiate seating -- the Choir may be in front of the congregation, but they do not face the congregation. Additionally, the historic example of a "quire" in gothic design places the choir stalls in between the nave and the sanctuary, where the high altar is (focal point). This tradition of design is not evident at St. Martin's, as it is in the architectural design of the National Cathedral (early Edwardian).

The screen at St. Martin's is neither a rood screen (as it does not have a rood), nor is it a quire screen (as it does not separate the nave from the chancel.

And by the way,

I have a degree in theology from Oxford University.

[Subdude]

Is this West of 288?

I could swear its a Baptist church now.

No, it was downtown and has been demolished. Now the site is a parking lot.

[KewpieCleaners]

With what part of my post do you disagree?

If you need further information about my theological studies, please send a PM.

Edited November 29, 2005 by KewpieCleaners

[Houston19514]

With what part of my post do you disagree?

If you need further information about my theological studies, please send a PM.

No further information about your theological studies needed, thank you very much. But I do have a question for you. My (Anglican) church just went through the entire Easter season (sometimes referred to as Eastertide) with six candles on the alter (3 on each end). Are we all going to hell? ;-)

[jmancuso]

yay...i have some pics of st. martins:

took these last summer.

[Gary]

Here's one I took a couple of months ago.

[mrfootball]

Is anyone going to mention the MASSIVE new Catholic Co-Cathedral being built downtown by St. Joseph's?

[Houston19514]

Is anyone going to mention the MASSIVE new Catholic Co-Cathedral being built downtown by St. Joseph's?

Why would it need to be mentioned in a thread about St. Martin's? There is an entire multi-page thread about the new Catholic Co-Cathedral... and you don't have to look too far; it's immediately below this thread ;-)