What's Left Of The Fourth Ward Near Taft St. & W. Grey St.

[editor]

Continuity Notice

A selection of posts have been removed from this thread due to their disruptive nature. Fragments left behind may not always make sense because of this.

[TGM]

From their perspective, they "were doing just fine in their unpainted houses until these uppity new homeowners built those townhomes smashed up against each other, and increasing traffic. NOW, those same newcomers are trying to push us out completely!"

Understood, but their logic is wrong. No one is trying to push them out. If you receive an offer for your home, you can accept or reject it. If your house does not meet code, and the city wants to tear it down it's not the developers fault, it's yours for choosing not to maintain it. If you owe back taxes that's also not the developers fault, it's yours for assuming you could ignore them. This sort of reminds me of the folks that blamed Metro for hitting light rail while turning left off of Main. It's always been illegal, it's just that the "enforcement" today is far less forgiving.

The right to build townhomes in supposed historic neighborhoods coexists with the right to sit on one's porch all day or not paint the house, whether willfully or due to poverty. It seems hypocritical to only support one aspect of property rights. That is what drew my narcissism reference.

Agreed.

The history of the 4th Ward is long gone. I do not mind its gentrification at all. But, I am opposed to running the original residents out. I do not mind letting market forces work. I do mind taking away one's right to enjoy their property.

The problem is that there is a misplaced perception that new construction and developers is driving out long time residents. No one is forcing someone to sell a mortgage-free, well-maintained property, that is current on taxes, and other similar obligations. What puzzles me is the perception that they are being forced out by developers when it's the city and county they owe money to. Yes, property taxes do rise, but it is the government, not the private sector that makes valuation judgements. Older residents have an over-65 exemption, and I would love to see and would support further tax exemptions for houses deemed to represent significant cultural or historical value, that are lived in and maintained by a family for several generations.

Edited July 12, 2012 by TGM

[kylejack]

No, the burden is on Kyle to prove the difficulty of obtaining welfare as a single, childless male as he stated that this was in fact for the record.

It is common knowledge that it isn't available for those of us who have been paying attention. How shall I prove a negative? Programs lay out who they are for, not who they aren't for. WIC stands for Women, Infants, and Children.

Edited July 12, 2012 by kylejack

[west20th]

Probably change, and whatever remains of hope.

I'm going to call BS on your statement that it's hard for single men to get welfare. I really don't see today's government turning anyone down for any sort of dependance, um,err, assistance. If a person can some how eff-up getting on the government gravy train then there is little hope for them. For heavens sake, we fund groups like Acorn to insure everyone gets pie.

The ACORN bogeyman no longer exists.

[west20th]

Wow, I think you've made the case that liberalism truly is a mental disorder.

Run out of arguments 'eh. You have to resort to Micheal Wiener quotes?

[samagon]

No need for a source when you drive through the area daily. Sometimes several times a day and see the same ol' people doing the exact same nothing all the time.

I bet the people sitting on their porch who are relaxing after working a 3rd shift somewhere and see the same car driving by daily are telling each other that the unemployed person who keeps driving through their neighborhood (sometimes several times a day) is what is ruining the place.

When you take a single data point without any other context you have no real frame of reference.

Of course, you're welcome to draw whatever conclusions you want based on your own experience, but don't expect others to agree with your conclusions, based on their own experience.

My personal experience has been very positive, I was out riding bicycles with some friends through 4th ward late at night, my friends bike broke and we didn't have the right Allen wrench, we saw some guys hanging out on the porch of their rundown shotgun shack and asked if they had a tool we could borrow, they happily obliged and we were back on our way shortly. Very nice guys.

[west20th]

I bet the people sitting on their porch who are relaxing after working a 3rd shift somewhere and see the same car driving by daily are telling each other that the unemployed person who keeps driving through their neighborhood (sometimes several times a day) is what is ruining the place.

When you take a single data point without any other context you have no real frame of reference.

Of course, you're welcome to draw whatever conclusions you want based on your own experience, but don't expect others to agree with your conclusions, based on their own experience.

My personal experience has been very positive, I was out riding bicycles with some friends through 4th ward late at night, my friends bike broke and we didn't have the right Allen wrench, we saw some guys hanging out on the porch of their rundown shotgun shack and asked if they had a tool we could borrow, they happily obliged and we were back on our way shortly. Very nice guys.

They didn't try to steal your stuff or sell you crack!? You must be one of "them".

[RedScare]

Understood, but their logic is wrong. No one is trying to push them out. If you receive an offer for your home, you can accept or reject it. If your house does not meet code, and the city wants to tear it down it's not the developers fault, it's yours for choosing not to maintain it. If you owe back taxes that's also not the developers fault, it's yours for assuming you could ignore them. This sort of reminds me of the folks that blamed Metro for hitting light rail while turning left off of Main. It's always been illegal, it's just that the "enforcement" today is far less forgiving.

The problem is that there is a misplaced perception that new construction and developers is driving out long time residents. No one is forcing someone to sell a mortgage-free, well-maintained property, that is current on taxes, and other similar obligations. What puzzles me is the perception that they are being forced out by developers when it's the city and county they owe money to. Yes, property taxes do rise, but it is the government, not the private sector that makes valuation judgements. Older residents have an over-65 exemption, and I would love to see and would support further tax exemptions for houses deemed to represent significant cultural or historical value, that are lived in and maintained by a family for several generations.

I don't know if anyone really knows what the perception or logic of those residents is. What we DO know is what the statements of political leaders are on those residents' behalf. And, I do not agree that a renter has a right to continued low rent in a specific neighborhood forever. Efforts to turn renters into owners is one thing. Even rent subsidies might be deemed appropriate. However, neighborhoods change over time, and legislating that they stop in time is not the solution.

We largely agree that the market will dictate what happens to the 4th Ward, and while upgrading and preserving the historic streets is laudable...and even deserved for those who now pay far larger tax bills...their is not a neighborhood right of some to impose restrictions on the others...on either side. If this sounds similar to my gripes about the Heights, it is.

[TGM]

It is common knowledge that it isn't available for those of us who have been paying attention. How shall I prove a negative? Programs lay out who they are for, not who they aren't for. WIC stands for Women, Infants, and Children.

Please, let's avoid "common knowledge" argument as you are seeking to modify what you previously stated as difficult, to now simply not available. Single, childless men can get "welfare" if they demonstrate a physical or mental condition that prevents them from working.

The term "welfare" is used for a variety of public assistance avenues. Nowhere have I stated that it is easy for a man to receive WIC benefits. We have a greater number of people on "welfare". Those on disability have increased to record levels. Unemployment benefits now extend to 93 weeks for 22+ states, and many choose to ride it to the end.

These are just a few of the stories I found regarding men that were caught gaming the system.

http://www.sunjournal.com/news/lewiston-auburn/2012/05/08/lewiston-man-sentenced-jail-public-assistance-frau/1192898

http://poststar.com/news/blotter/queensbury-man-charged-in-welfare-fraud-case/article_ee1d5e8e-74f0-11e1-b737-001871e3ce6c.html

http://poststar.com/news/blotter/greenwich-man-charged-in-welfare-fraud-case/article_533aef8e-7e60-11e1-8ed9-001a4bcf887a.html

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/04/26/news/portland/north-berwick-man-accused-of-lying-to-get-welfare/

http://news.pioneergroup.com/bigrapidsnews/2012/06/26/welfare-fraud-case-could-head-to-trial-in-july/

http://dailyfreeman.com/articles/2012/03/03/blotter/doc4f517cfc35cbe501293608.txt?webredirect=false&refresh=no

http://poststar.com/news/blotter/cambridge-man-charged-in-welfare-fraud-case/article_10775be6-5ed6-11e1-a5d5-001871e3ce6c.html

http://www.wrta.com/pages/12858126.php?

http://the390.com/geneva-man-charged-with-welfare-fraud/

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20120712/LOCAL07/307129938/-1/local11

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/target-11-investigates-local-welfare-fraud/nMjc5/

Edited July 12, 2012 by TGM

[RedScare]

...

Edited July 12, 2012 by RedScare

[samagon]

for every story about a person gaming the system there's hundreds of people who genuinely need the help and aren't gaming anything to get by until they can get back on their feet. perhaps, if this is something you feel strongly about, you should fight to help make the system tighter to reduce the abuse, rather than just lamenting the entire system.

[TGM]

However, neighborhoods change over time, and legislating that they stop in time is not the solution.

Which is why I bristle when people refer to a neighborhood as having been a _____ neighborhood until the ______ started moving in. Stupid, and even more so when it comes from the mouths of those that are merely renting rather than owning. That being said, when a politician actively attempts to preserve or restore a neighborhood based on the race they feel it belongs to, how should we label their actions?

http://www.governing.com/topics/health-human-services/housing/Land-Rush.html

We largely agree that the market will dictate what happens to the 4th Ward, and while upgrading and preserving the historic streets is laudable...and even deserved for those who now pay far larger tax bills...their is not a neighborhood right of some to impose restrictions on the others...on either side. If this sounds similar to my gripes about the Heights, it is.

Which is why the Victorian elitists should be required to remove their multi-zoned A/C systems before they are allowed to rule on others architectural tastes.

[samagon]

There's a few scenes from Robocop 2 that were shot on location on Andrews Street in 4th ward. Not a perfect picture of what it looked like in the 80s, since movie magic did some things to the area, but it's a fun movie to watch and try to pick out what part of Houston it was filmed in...

[KinkaidAlum]

Run out of arguments 'eh. You have to resort to Micheal Wiener quotes?

Exactly.

Additionally, Merriam's defines liberalism (as it pertains to politics) as follows;

a political philosophy based on a belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties

Which part of that should I be ashamed of?

[TonyM]

Exactly.

Additionally, Merriam's defines liberalism (as it pertains to politics) as follows;

a political philosophy based on a belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties

Which part of that should I be ashamed of?

Hahaha, I wonder if Merriam's allowed the DNC to write that for them.

As for what part you should be ashamed of, I suppose you and I have different definitions of "progress" and the "autonomy of the individual". If the definition you posted is the true defintion of liberalism than this country's democratic party has severely perverted that.

[Chi-Char-Hou-Dal]

Looks like I started a hot topic - I am very curious about the Freedman's town - 4th Ward - thanks for the subject change. It's no wonder everyone has opinions from the people living in the area to those like me who live around it - with the long history of the area and the new squeze of new developement the next five years should be extremely interesting for the immediate area around the new Post/Camden Grey St.

Cheers.

[trymahjong]

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/gallery/NAACP-delegates-tour-Freedmen-s-Town-45855.php

[TGM]

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/gallery/NAACP-delegates-tour-Freedmen-s-Town-45855.php

If Shelia is serious about saving the row houses (long after the mics and cameras are gone) then she needs to whip out her checkbook and match any funds raised to preserve the homes.

The one they featured looks halfway decent.