august948 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Not the inevitable choice at all, for many reasons:- Reportedly, the CIA only gave a 60% probability that OBL was there.- The strike took place in Pakistan, a country that we are not at war with. There was cooperation, but no specific approval of the Pakistani government.- The strike involved sending in Seals instead of using a targeted missile strike, which was a viable option.We've been hunting this guy for more than a decade. There have certainly been other opportunities for Obama, Bush, and Clinton for that matter to take out OBL and they were either unsuccessful or not attempted.The first item above was one reason for the third reason. They really needed eyes-on plus dna evidence to make sure they had a positive kill. Missile strikes tend to muddy such evidence. For the second reason, as I have previously noted, we have no compunction violating the sovereignty of other nations. Was it really that tough a call for the President to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Was it really that tough a call for the President to make?Considering the thrashing he would have taken had it failed, and that his own Secretary of Defense recommended the bombing...yeah, I'd say it was a really tough call. But, maybe life is simple and in black and white in your world. It is decidedly less so as president of the United States.(and, yes, I am embarrassed that I even have to point that out.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Considering the thrashing he would have taken had it failed, and that his own Secretary of Defense recommended the bombing...yeah, I'd say it was a really tough call. But, maybe life is simple and in black and white in your world. It is decidedly less so as president of the United States.(and, yes, I am embarrassed that I even have to point that out.)Had it failed, would anybody have known enough to care? We must weigh the undeniable fact that President Obama is so fantastic at his job that if He had a good reason to hide anything, it would've been done with meticulous professionalism.I am embarrassed for you that you do not recognize His supreme awesomeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Aww, Niche your transformation from pedantic to petulant is charming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Aww, Niche your transformation from pedantic to petulant is charming.I'd have preferred that you maintained your vow of silence against me rather than that you continue to launch personal attacks and ignore the substance of my commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Considering the thrashing he would have taken had it failed, and that his own Secretary of Defense recommended the bombing...yeah, I'd say it was a really tough call. But, maybe life is simple and in black and white in your world. It is decidedly less so as president of the United States.(and, yes, I am embarrassed that I even have to point that out.)the reality is though, that if this mission were not a success, either by OBL getting away, or if it weren't him at all, it would have been years before this got out on wikileaks that this mission was targeting OBL, and most would just say 'whatevs' when they heard it anyway.even though there may have only been 60% likelihood of OBL being there, I bet they were 100% that there was someone high ranking in his organization lived there worth the extreme risk of the mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livincinco Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Had it failed, would anybody have known enough to care? We must weigh the undeniable fact that President Obama is so fantastic at his job that if He had a good reason to hide anything, it would've been done with meticulous professionalism.I am embarrassed for you that you do not recognize His supreme awesomeness.There used to be a time where it was generally considered that partisanship didn't apply to foreign affairs and it would be nice to apply that here. This was a well executed mission and, in my personal opinion, acknowledging that has nothing to do with political parties. I would say the same thing if this had been executed by a Republican president. It accomplished a goal that, as a country, we have attempted to achieve for more than a decade and should be celebrated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Up next: Photo is NOT being released. Agree/Disagree with this decision?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I agree... We have the daughter and wife confirming the death as eye witnesses. We have numerous jihadists groups pledging revenge. We have the Muslim Brotherhood singing his praise as a martyr. It seems we've convinced those that count already. I'm not sure how releasing it can help. Morons have already released 2 pretty well done fakes, one of which has made front page on numerous foreign newspapers. Those that don't want to believe can just as easily claim the real photo is a fake too... another photo won't convince them. As for conspiracy theorists.. F them.. they too will always believe what they want to believe. I don't think the risk of inflaming the Arab world, giving them more reason to fight, and endangering our troops is worth it to appease those that won't be convinced anyways.Anderson Cooper had a good closing thought last night with the appropriateness of dumping him off the ship into the vast darkness of the ocean. No gravemarker. No possibility of a shrine. A little fish in a big ocean. He's gotten his 10 yrs of fame...Time to move on. Honor the victims, but not by constantly remembering UBL. I think not releasing the photo for years, if ever, helps to that end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Had it failed, would anybody have known enough to care? We must weigh the undeniable fact that President Obama is so fantastic at his job that if He had a good reason to hide anything, it would've been done with meticulous professionalism.I am embarrassed for you that you do not recognize His supreme awesomeness.Although i don't always agree with niche, I love the sarcasm here. Won't continue with an explanantion as there is no point in arguing with those so blind they cannot see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 There used to be a time where it was generally considered that partisanship didn't apply to foreign affairs and it would be nice to apply that here. This was a well executed mission and, in my personal opinion, acknowledging that has nothing to do with political parties. I would say the same thing if this had been executed by a Republican president. It accomplished a goal that, as a country, we have attempted to achieve for more than a decade and should be celebrated as such.Four out of the five people that were shot and killed were unarmed. Another unarmed woman was shot in the leg. The only armed person that was killed was killed at the guest house, well away from Osama Bin Laden.Obama definitely made the right call to undertake the mission, but this was sloppy work not well-executed at all by the military. To the extent that Obama deserves credit for giving the green light, he also deserves credit for the mis-telling of the story in a public address so late in the evening. He should've waited for the facts to be sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Four out of the five people that were shot and killed were unarmed. Another unarmed woman was shot in the leg. The only armed person that was killed was killed at the guest house, well away from Osama Bin Laden.Obama definitely made the right call to undertake the mission, but this was sloppy work not well-executed at all by the military. To the extent that Obama deserves credit for giving the green light, he also deserves credit for the mis-telling of the story in a public address so late in the evening. He should've waited for the facts to be sorted out.The purpose of a military is to kill people and break things. If you need to get someone and not have them dead, maybe the military isn't the first choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Up next: Photo is NOT being released. Agree/Disagree with this decision?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I agree... We have the daughter and wife confirming the death as eye witnesses. We have numerous jihadists groups pledging revenge. We have the Muslim Brotherhood singing his praise as a martyr. It seems we've convinced those that count already. I'm not sure how releasing it can help. Morons have already released 2 pretty well done fakes, one of which has made front page on numerous foreign newspapers. Those that don't want to believe can just as easily claim the real photo is a fake too... another photo won't convince them. As for conspiracy theorists.. F them.. they too will always believe what they want to believe. I don't think the risk of inflaming the Arab world, giving them more reason to fight, and endangering our troops is worth it to appease those that won't be convinced anyways.Anderson Cooper had a good closing thought last night with the appropriateness of dumping him off the ship into the vast darkness of the ocean. No gravemarker. No possibility of a shrine. A little fish in a big ocean. He's gotten his 10 yrs of fame...Time to move on. Honor the victims, but not by constantly remembering UBL. I think not releasing the photo for years, if ever, helps to that end.To be perfectly clear, I don't think that there is a conspiracy. I find it remarkable and fascinating just how unpopular I can become by even hinting at the plausibility of a conspiracy. And it is plausible, otherwise Red would be rubbing my nose in it rather than resorting to ad hominems. (His choice of rhetoric rather than substance is how I know that I'm onto something.)Mostly, I'm just annoyed with our President that he impatiently declared a late-night media circus, botched a factual telling of the story, that the operation turned out to be so unforgivably sloppy, and that Obama doesn't have a better grasp of human nature in the wake of 'birther' hysteria. He didn't learn his lesson. Instead, he offers only the testimony and hearsay promulgated by government officials...which we already know is sketchy because they've been so very bad with details in the first place that he ended up getting it horribly wrong.It is certainly true that 'birthers' and 'deathers' won't be coming from the population of Obama supporters (in the same sense that 9/11 conspiracy theorists didn't tend to be Republican). They won't shock his approval rating; but it certainly strikes me as though a significant enough partisan voting block will be agitated that it will affect turnout, and not in his favor.And just so you all know that I'm not mouthing off as a matter of partisanship, here's what I would've done. 1) Greenlight the operation. Specify a distinct preference that Osama and everyone in his vicinity be taken alive using less-than-lethal force throughout the operation. The military is there to protect our domestic interests; intelligence is how you accomplish that. Understand that intelligence is costly not only in material but in human terms. Accept it. 2) Be damned quiet! 3) Neither confirm nor deny any rumors or leaks. Discredit or ignore (do not validate) anything said by Al Qaeda. There were so many OBL rumors already that another one wouldn't capture anybody's attention. 4) If Bin Laden died at some point, dispose of the body. If asked, neither confirm or deny anything. If confronted with evidence, be obtuse. 5) After the secret military tribunal and death sentence, publicize how professionally-handled the entire operation was, including his prompt burial at a disclosed but secure and inaccessible location (such as at the Guantanamo Bay facility). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Although i don't always agree with niche, I love the sarcasm here. Won't continue with an explanantion as there is no point in arguing with those so blind they cannot see.Ahhh....folks that are not as elightened as you are just blind. I just hope someday I can recognize the truth as you do and can stop living in darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 To be perfectly clear, I don't think that there is a conspiracy. I find it remarkable and fascinating just how unpopular I can become by even hinting at the plausibility of a conspiracy. And it is plausible, otherwise Red would be rubbing my nose in it rather than resorting to ad hominems. (His choice of rhetoric rather than substance is how I know that I'm onto something.)To be perfectly clear, I never thought you were insinuating a conspiracy. You got a -1 for me for piss poor timing and trying to start a fight. This was within 30 mins of this momentous news breaking. This was during if not before Obama's speech. Does Niche celebrate the news like a normal human being and like 99% of the rest of the country? Nope, with post # 2 on this thread, you intentionally set up a fight so that others, in your words, would fill in the gaps. You got -1 from me because I believe you knew exactly what you were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Reuter's bought compound aftermath photos - quite gruesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Supposedly the plan was to also bring along the wife and kids, but the chopper crash precluded that. Sounds like a public relations nightmare averted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ahhh....folks that are not as elightened as you are just blind. I just hope someday I can recognize the truth as you do and can stop living in darkness. The important thing is to never give up hope!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Four out of the five people that were shot and killed were unarmed. Another unarmed woman was shot in the leg. The only armed person that was killed was killed at the guest house, well away from Osama Bin Laden.Obama definitely made the right call to undertake the mission, but this was sloppy work not well-executed at all by the military. To the extent that Obama deserves credit for giving the green light, he also deserves credit for the mis-telling of the story in a public address so late in the evening. He should've waited for the facts to be sorted out.They were al qaeda supporters. Who cares what happened to them?You have been watching to many Hollywood tv shows/movies. There is no perfect military mission. This one accomplished their main goal so it was a success. I say well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Badass Navy SEAL dog...http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/05/05/050511-news-seal-dog-1-5/Yes, they said TITANIUM fangs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 They were al qaeda supporters. Who cares what happened to them?You have been watching to many Hollywood tv shows/movies. There is no perfect military mission. This one accomplished their main goal so it was a success. I say well done.If you had read to the bottom, you would've seen why I care. I want them all cross-interrogated. I want intelligence.Yes, they said TITANIUM fangs!I want titanium fangs. Do you think I can get Medicaid to cover them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 Badass Navy SEAL dog...http://www.thedaily....s-seal-dog-1-5/Yes, they said TITANIUM fangs!That is pretty damned cool.Can you imagine the poor squirrels they would get ahold of after they retire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Does Niche celebrate the news like a normal human being and like 99% of the rest of the country? NopeYes, we knew that already. I suppose that you're the sort that drank tequila this evening in celebration of approximately 149 successful orbits around the sun following white peoples' misconception of the beginning of Mexican independence?Well I'm not. I drank tequila because it was there.you intentionally set up a fight so that others, in your words, would fill in the gaps. You got -1 from me because I believe you knew exactly what you were doing.If you're bestowing the mantle of genius upon me for my master-planned scheme to piss off the HAIF natives, then I might point out that the reation I prompted demonstrated a thoughtful point. To turn a phrase, I was perhaps pedantic via petulance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Is the US media trying to keep away from any slipups (Obama) by spelling it Usama Instead? Or is it just a matter that Osama and Usama are interchangable and either is correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VicMan Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Is the US media trying to keep away from any slipups (Obama) by spelling it Usama Instead? Or is it just a matter that Osama and Usama are interchangable and either is correct?The US government has used "Usama" in some places. Both are correct spellings of the original Arabic name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 USA is Usama. I just figured it was just a way to rub a little extra salt in their wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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