Are the buses really that bad?

[IronTiger]

So I was talking to my parents about driving to Cypress by myself to take a park & ride into Houston, where my cousin would pick me up. Doubt began to be cast if I could actually drive to the Cypress P&R in one piece, and the possibility that my cousin wouldn't be able to pick me up in the Northwest Transit Center. So when I suggested riding an inner-city bus they were not particularly impressed with that idea.

In a separate incident two days later, during a history lecture about the growth of suburbs (and using Houston as an example!), he asked the class about how one could get around Houston without a car. When I suggested the bus, he said something along the lines of "Ha! Good luck with that! Russian roulette is safer!"

As for people living in Houston, at the dinner table on Sunday, only one person there (my cousin) actually was from Houston (but never used a bus). There was also my other cousin and his family (wife & toddler) who had visited relatives (in the Heights!) often enough but I don't think they have ever ridden the buses. The professor in question lived in Houston most of his life but moved out probably about 10 years ago.

Do their arguments hold any weight, or is it just rumors and fearmongering?

Edited April 26, 2011 by IronTiger

[ricco67]

In a separate incident two days later, during a history lecture about the growth of suburbs (and using Houston as an example!), he asked the class about how one could get around Houston without a car. When I suggested the bus, he said something along the lines of "Ha! Good luck with that! Russian roulette is safer!"

Your Prof is full of it.

Riding in a bus in Houston is no different than riding any other form of transit (rail, bus, subway, trolly) in any other city in the nation, or the world for that matter.

While I know there is a "bias" for rail that has been discussed here in the past, I can't help but wonder if certain stereotypes just can't be shaken.

"Public Transportation is for Jerks and Lesbians" -Homer Simpson

There has to be some sort of psychosis about people who simply dismiss public transit as a whole and truly makes me wonder if these are people that don't wish to be in close proximity to those that don't meet or match their own Demographic levels.

Now before I get jumped on for that last part of the sentence; There are people that only are comfortable with those of their same Economical, Educational, or social levels.

It might be a good chance to inquire further into the their thoughts on why you shouldn't take a bus from the P&R. Is it a fear that you'll be mugged, lost, kidnapped? Maybe even waking up in a hotel room in a tub full of ice.

[kylejack]

Definitely fearmongering. I ride various bus lines frequently and I can only think of two incidents of even a hint of hostile behavior. Both cases were just some angry dude yelling at the bus driver. All the buses are video-recorded and Metro Police are ready to respond quickly if there's an incident.

While the city routes are perfectly safe and useful, the park and ride buses are downright decadent by comparison. They're more the tour-bus style with very comfortable seats and powerful air conditioning.

That's not to say Metro's not without their missteps. The timetables are a very loose suggestion of when the bus will arrive.

[IronTiger]

It wasn't the P&R part of the trip they were worried about, it was mostly, I think, the traffic in Cypress and the highways in general, which, if it's only to the P&R, isn't that bad (in terms of traffic). The idea of the P&R was to avoid the worst of 290 while saving gas. But I wanted to ask about the buses to verify if separate accounts were really true or just hearsay.

The in-city buses weren't part of my original plan, but were a backup in case I couldn't get a ride from the NW Transit Center.

I think dismissal of public transit is the result of a cultural stigma from the 1980s and early 1990s, with the New York subways and run-down Greyhound buses being examples.

[samagon]

Definitely fearmongering. I ride various bus lines frequently and I can only think of two incidents of even a hint of hostile behavior. Both cases were just some angry dude yelling at the bus driver. All the buses are video-recorded and Metro Police are ready to respond quickly if there's an incident.

While the city routes are perfectly safe and useful, the park and ride buses are downright decadent by comparison. They're more the tour-bus style with very comfortable seats and powerful air conditioning.

That's not to say Metro's not without their missteps. The timetables are a very loose suggestion of when the bus will arrive.

I think this is more an issue than the riders safety.

I know people that take regular buses (not P&R buses) to work, and mention how unreliable they are as far as scheduling. But then, nothing is going to be as reliable as being able to get in your own car and drive immediately.

Personally, my experience with Metro buses is as a car sharing the road with them. the drivers are imbeciles. taking multiple lanes on a road, changing lanes without first seeing who is there, tailgating on the freeway, not to mention just parking on the side of the road (leaving the bus idling for up to 30 minutes) yeah, riders don't have anything to worry about. it's the other cars that have to share the road with them, not to mention pedestrians, bicycles, motorcycles, etc.

put them on rails, at least then they are a bit more predictable in their machines of immense power.

[ricco67]

Personally, my experience with Metro buses is as a car sharing the road with them. the drivers are imbeciles. taking multiple lanes on a road, changing lanes without first seeing who is there, tailgating on the freeway, not to mention just parking on the side of the road (leaving the bus idling for up to 30 minutes) yeah, riders don't have anything to worry about. it's the other cars that have to share the road with them, not to mention pedestrians, bicycles, motorcycles, etc.

put them on rails, at least then they are a bit more predictable in their machines of immense power.

That's funny, you just described most drivers I encounter on a typical day, and not just people that drive buses.

When it comes to buses, I treat them like any other vehicle on the road: I keep an eye on them and try to get ready for anything unexpected that may occur.

Funny, I think I do that with cars, SUV's, and trucks. go fig.

[samagon]

That's funny, you just described most drivers I encounter on a typical day, and not just people that drive buses.

When it comes to buses, I treat them like any other vehicle on the road: I keep an eye on them and try to get ready for anything unexpected that may occur.

Funny, I think I do that with cars, SUV's, and trucks. go fig.

True enough.

I thought (and maybe I am mistaken) that bus drivers had to have a CDL, and were 'professional' drivers.

I mean, so long as a person provide insurance and a valid license (neither of which require much more than a heartbeat to acquire), as well as a grip of cash, anyone can walk away with a car.

I would assume a professional driver whose job it is to transport people from one destination to another would be a bit more stringent, or at least the people doing the hiring would take things seriously.

[jgriff]

I ride 131 from the Memorial Villages area to Northwest Transit Center and then into downtown everyday. I've been doing that for about 14 months now. I've never had any problems with any of the people on the bus nor have I ever seen anyone else have any problems. Occasionally I've had to sit near a smelly person and I've heard young men on the bus rapping about killing all the white people and taking their houses. I chalk that up to there being stupid people in every race and everywhere you go. Some of the drivers are great, others are terrible. There's one that comes to a complete stop in rush hour traffic every morning on I-10 because he doesn't know how to merge.

I'd have no problem riding just about any metro bus in Houston. I wouldn't like for my wife to ride alone, but she's very attractive and wears very expensive clothing, purses, shoes, etc...

[ricco67]

True enough.

I thought (and maybe I am mistaken) that bus drivers had to have a CDL, and were 'professional' drivers.

I mean, so long as a person provide insurance and a valid license (neither of which require much more than a heartbeat to acquire), as well as a grip of cash, anyone can walk away with a car.

I would assume a professional driver whose job it is to transport people from one destination to another would be a bit more stringent, or at least the people doing the hiring would take things seriously.

I think for the most part that they do take that quite seriously.

But take into account they have to drive a huge vehicle for 8 hrs, averaging about 150-200 miles a day, along a specified route, dealing with hundreds of people a day, maintaining your composure while you have to not only deal with the idiots on the roads, but the morons in your backseat talking loudly or yelling.

Now try doing this all week long without an accident while driving 42k miles a year (formula used on assumptions 25mph*7hrs*5days*48weeks) without an accident.

Here is a related chron.com article on accidents and general causes.

[JamesL]

I ride local buses daily. In my experience, my fellow riders are hard-working Houstonians who, like me, are just looking to get to work, school, home, the grocery store, or wherever else life takes them. I would be more uneasy in a dark parking lot than at a bus stop on a busy corner.

I also have the utmost respect for (most) bus drivers. They are professionals with a challenging daily task of moving hundreds of people in a safe, timely manner.

As for the scheduling issues, stick to frequent routes whenever possible and keep paper timetables or a smartphone app at the ready and you'll get where you're going with a minimum of waiting.

$1.25 for a ride most anywhere in the region? Can't be beat!

[samagon]

Good points, and thanks for the link!

[mfastx]

Buses aren't that bad at all. I've ridden METRO buses many times. The reason why most Houstonians don't ride METRO isn't because of safety issues, its becasue the transit system is poorly designed (no high capacity core system i.e. rail) which would account for such low transit ridership. Things like safety problems are just opinions formed due to unfamiliarity.

[TheNiche]

Things like safety problems are just opinions formed due to unfamiliarity.

I would beg to differ. Such attitudes reflect a strain of xenophobic extremism that is uniquely virulent in Brazos County.

[jgriff]

My bus is about 99.5% on time. I've only seen it signifigantly late twice in 14 months. Both of those were due to mechanical break down and they were about 15 or 20 minutes late. Usually they are within 5 minutes of being right on schedule.

[RedScare]

I would beg to differ. Such attitudes reflect a strain of xenophobic extremism that is uniquely virulent in Brazos County.

It is not unique to Brazos County. This is a phenomenon that occurs in virtually every exurban area surrounding a big city. Brazos County need not be singled out. Even northwest Harris County exhibits this belief.

And, by the way, xenophobia is based in unfamiliarity. The previous poster was correct.

Edited April 27, 2011 by RedScare

[IronTiger]

(posted something, but RedScare phrased it better. Sorry)

Edited April 27, 2011 by IronTiger

[TheNiche]

It is not unique to Brazos County. This is a phenomenon that occurs in virtually every exurban area surrounding a big city. Brazos County need not be singled out. Even northwest Harris County exhibits this belief.

Brazos County is not an exurb. It is a self-reinforcing xenophobic monoculture as any micropolitan area that I am aware of. In contrast, northwest Harris County is influenced far more as a component of a large and diverse metropolitan area; it may lean that way, however I mentioned 'unique virulence' to describe Brazos County for a reason.

And, by the way, xenophobia is based in unfamiliarity. The previous poster was correct.

The concepts are related, but they are not the same.

[IronTiger]

Brazos County is not an exurb. It is a self-reinforcing xenophobic monoculture as any micropolitan area that I am aware of. In contrast, northwest Harris County is influenced far more as a component of a large and diverse metropolitan area; it may lean that way, however I mentioned 'unique virulence' to describe Brazos County for a reason.

Ah. I take it you have witnessed examples of College Station being a "xenophobic monoculture", or are you just basing things after a few people and what they said, and combining it with rumors and hearsay?

[samagon]

My bus is about 99.5% on time. I've only seen it signifigantly late twice in 14 months. Both of those were due to mechanical break down and they were about 15 or 20 minutes late. Usually they are within 5 minutes of being right on schedule.

I suppose that is acceptable for a bus system, but I would expect within 1 minute of 'on schedule' to be acceptable, and we won't have that till there is rail instead of buses.

but then, I suppose that is part of 'reliability' interestingly, the school bus that runs through my neighborhood comes by at the same time every morning, I'm not sure if we're the first neighborhood it stops in, or what, but at 7:18 every morning the bus is driving by my house. That is what I consider reliable. True you can't compare a system that drives through neighborhoods against a system that has to drive over 10 miles through heavy traffic, but anyway, my definition of reliable is "the same thing every time" if a bus stops at 7:24, I'd expect that to be repeated every time.

One interesting note, when I lived in Alief, I drove down Belaire to get to BW8, every morning I would leave my house at 6:55 and I would end up passing the same bus on Belaire at roughly the same intersection, with few exceptions, but then, I think that line starts at hw6, and there isn't a whole heck of a lot of traffic on belaire until you get up to the BW.

Edited April 27, 2011 by samagon

[jgriff]

I suppose that is acceptable for a bus system, but I would expect within 1 minute of 'on schedule' to be acceptable, and we won't have that till there is rail instead of buses.

but then, I suppose that is part of 'reliability' interestingly, the school bus that runs through my neighborhood comes by at the same time every morning, I'm not sure if we're the first neighborhood it stops in, or what, but at 7:18 every morning the bus is driving by my house. That is what I consider reliable. True you can't compare a system that drives through neighborhoods against a system that has to drive over 10 miles through heavy traffic, but anyway, my definition of reliable is "the same thing every time" if a bus stops at 7:24, I'd expect that to be repeated every time.

One interesting note, when I lived in Alief, I drove down Belaire to get to BW8, every morning I would leave my house at 6:55 and I would end up passing the same bus on Belaire at roughly the same intersection, with few exceptions, but then, I think that line starts at hw6, and there isn't a whole heck of a lot of traffic on belaire until you get up to the BW.

Within one minute would be nice but you are correct, that's not going to happen with a bus. I can't imagine having rail that came down Memorial drive though. I'm sure I'll be long dead before that happens and it wouldn't make any difference to me anyway. Once I'm at work I don't care if the vehicle I came in was on rails or not.

[kylejack]

That has not been my experience. I've had numerous experiences where I get there 5 minutes before the due time and wait over half an hour for a bus. It should never ever be early.

[skwatra]

after 8 months of riding the 34 to the Med Center for work, it was late 15 minutes a few weeks ago, then the next day it was a few minutes early (new driver). other then that, no issues or safety concerns. my gf is actually more scared to stand at the Rail stops, she often gets hassled there by sketchy people, never on the bus (~6am). though she prefers the rail for timing and speed of course, and its her only option on the weekends.

[Highway6]

My metro experience is more negative than positive with the wait times, but mostly still acceptable.

My only real negative experience was a few years ago. After waiting for the 78 at the corner of Weslayn and Richmond for a very extended 20-30 min wait, the 78 finally shows up. However, the driver asked me how far I was going.. upon telling her I was heading pretty far into town, she said she couldn't let me on because she was at the end of the line and that I needed to catch the 78 going the other way.

Here's the issue though.. the 78, like i imagine most lines, have loops at the either end. My stop was inside that loop, meaning there was no 78 going the opposite direction. She said she could only take me as far as Timmons or something and that I would then need to walk to Buffalo Speedway to catch a 78 going in the other direction. Lucky me, caught the tardy driver at the end of her shift I guess.. which makes a heck of a lot of sense during the evening commute.

[JamesL]

Drivers are not allowed to run early. When I come across one who does, I take down the bus number and block number and report it. I also report drivers who make absolutely no effort to maintain the schedule. According to METRO about 67% of trips reach each timepoint between 0 and 5 minutes late, and in my experience that's about right.

As for safety, I think if there were any issue at all the media would be all over it like they are with any and every METRO-related controversy.

[ricco67]

Drivers are not allowed to run early. When I come across one who does, I take down the bus number and block number and report it. I also report drivers who make absolutely no effort to maintain the schedule. According to METRO about 67% of trips reach each timepoint between 0 and 5 minutes late, and in my experience that's about right.

As for safety, I think if there were any issue at all the media would be all over it like they are with any and every METRO-related controversy.

And yet, people get irritated when a bus runs slow so it CAN maintain its schedule.

I didn't know you were so in tune with which buses are on schedule at which stop that you are able to determine which bus is early. I'm rather impressed by that.

[kylejack]

According to METRO about 67% of trips reach each timepoint between 0 and 5 minutes late, and in my experience that's about right.

I can perhaps buy this. But that 33% when they're super-late really sticks in your mind, because it makes you much later to things than you thought you'd be. It compounds if it makes you miss a transfer.

[jgriff]

I guess my route must be an easy one. In 14 months I've only seen them significantly late twice. I got apologies from the driver both times. The schedules have enough slack in them that they can usually make up 10 minutes of they need to. Sometimes my bus sits at NW transit center for 5-10 minutes so that they aren't early for the stops afterwards. I'm actually posting this from the bus, the 40 minutes ride gives me time to catch up on looking for new music, reading the news, etc...

[JamesL]

I didn't know you were so in tune with which buses are on schedule at which stop that you are able to determine which bus is early. I'm rather impressed by that.

Like I said, schedules are really handy for determining when the bus is coming. You can also look at the screen to the driver's left. It tells them if they are ahead or behind, -4 1/2 being 4.5 minutes behind.

[TheNiche]

Ah. I take it you have witnessed examples of College Station being a "xenophobic monoculture", or are you just basing things after a few people and what they said, and combining it with rumors and hearsay?

I have borne witness to the pattern.

[MetroMogul]

I had a girlfriend who was a Metro bus driver. She was a good driver, though a bit of a lead foot and she often ran early if she had to use the restroom or just wanted more layover time. I remember one day she was 22 and 1/2 minutes early. And she had been driving slow for most of the run, but the 53 has a ton of extra time built in that needs to be cut.

Anyway, Metro has definitely improved since the days of Frank "Stank" Wilson and his corrupt cronies. Buses were routinely more than 10 minutes late, if they showed at all and many drivers genuinely did not give two craps about their job. Now, most of the buses run on time, and if they are late they'll at least make an attempt to catch up if traffic permits. Even the 82 is relatively on time, though there needs to be something done about the MAJOR overcrowding that occurs at night.

As an aside, if anyone here was around back in the Rapid Transit days (pre HouTran), the system was definitely confusing. There was a study done on the 25 - Airline, the 40 - Pecore, the 44 - Studewood, the 48 - Washington and the 50 - Heights and between these routes there were 34 different combinations of routing and terminals. There were a ridiculous number of short turns designated by street block numbers (ex. 2600, 3000, 4000, 4800) and a lot of "via" trips (via Freeway, via Freeway via North Main, via Freeway via North Main via Yale). For a system with so many broken buses I don't see how these complex schedules were even maintained. Even the shortest routes had short turns scheduled.

Public Transit in Houston has come a long way.

Edited April 28, 2011 by MetroMogul