Walmart Supercenter At 111 Yale St.

[RedScare]

Weird thing about s3mk's argument is that Walmart is not a party to the 380 agreement, and is not being sued. But, she drags them into the argument anyway. Pretty much proves that this isn't about 380 agreements, but about hating Walmart...at least to members of RUDH.

BTW, I stopped by the Walmart on Katy Fwy Sunday. Nice clean store. I'm sure the one on Yale will be just as nice.

[J008]

WalMart isn't the biggest corporation in the US.

by revenue they are #1

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/snapshots/2255.html

[samagon]

Number 1, number 10, number last. It doesn't matter. The conditions for a 380 are actually very simple. I encourage anyone who thinks this suit is good to go read the actual legislation for 380.

There are no provisions in place that stop it being used for the number 1 grossing company. There is only 1 contingency, that is that the money must be used to benefit the community.

So let's forget how much Walmart rakes, shall we?

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[samagon]

link to 380:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/LG/htm/LG.380.htm

won't quote the whole thing, cause it's long, but here's the pertinent part:

Sec. 380.001. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS. (a) The governing body of a municipality may establish and provide for the administration of one or more programs, including programs for making loans and grants of public money and providing personnel and services of the municipality, to promote state or local economic development and to stimulate business and commercial activity in the municipality. For purposes of this subsection, a municipality includes an area that:

(1) has been annexed by the municipality for limited purposes; or

(2) is in the extraterritorial jurisdiction of the municipality.

( The governing body may:

(1) administer a program by the use of municipal personnel;

(2) contract with the federal government, the state, a political subdivision of the state, a nonprofit organization, or any other entity for the administration of a program; and

(3) accept contributions, gifts, or other resources to develop and administer a program.

© Any city along the Texas-Mexico border with a population of more than 500,000 may establish not-for-profit corporations and cooperative associations for the purpose of creating and developing an intermodal transportation hub to stimulate economic development. Such intermodal hub may also function as an international intermodal transportation center and may be colocated with or near local, state, or federal facilities and facilities of Mexico in order to fulfill its purpose.

[samagon]

You had your chance. I am still here and you are still wrong. The fact of the matter is that you concocted a strawman argument about RUDH in order to come up with an ad hominem attack when you had nothing of value to contribute about the merits of the lawsuit.

1. the lawsuit has no merit.

2. his supposed 'strawman argument' is at least more intellectually sound than your arguments, at least he is basing his argument on fact, and not second hand gossip.

Instead of discussing whether the largest corporation in the US and a wealthy developer are legally entitled to take 6 mil in tax dollars to pad their profit margin, you chose to make a cowardly attack on people you do not know and completely crossed the line by suggesting that people go to their homes and tell them they are hypocrites for buying new or recent construction. It is an Ann Coulter-esque argument. It is not meant to discuss the merits of the issues, but to kick sand in people's eyes and get people made at you for doing it. It is what sells Ann Coulter's books and is what cripples our democracy from functioning.

1. can you provide proof of them 'padding their profit margin' or are you just gossiping? you know, lying about something like that, and pretending it is fact, can be considered libel, or slander, I assume Walmart and ainbinder don't care enough about your voice to take you to task for it.

2. there is no clause in the chapter 380 (as I referenced above) that stipulates the worth of a company before deciding whether the money would/could be used "to promote state or local economic development and to stimulate business and commercial activity in the municipality."

3. please provide a link to where anyone here (but mainly TheNiche) told people to harass members of RUDH for being hypocrites?

4. Go back and review post 1684, 1704, and 1740 NO WHERE in that post does TheNiche suggest what you have said that he did. He does say that Chris Athens should be 'made aware' but that's it. that you construed it to mean people should start knocking on (or down) his door, that's you own fault.

And the mission statement is broad in order to allow the organization to chart its own course without having to go back and have a special board meeting to amend the mission statement. RUDH has clearly charted a course and has pages and pages of statements about urban development on their website.

This is my favorite!!!

Have you even been to the iRUDH website yourself??? Based on your account of what is contained on the site, I really don't think so. I will say you are 100% accurate, the have "charted their course" alright!!!!.

The ONLY initiative on the website is to stop walmart (and recruit people who will join them in this doomed fiasco)! The ONLY news updates are the efforts that iRUDH has taken to stop the walmart! There are two paragraphs of data on the home page, one references very vaguely how people and business owners who MAY be affected by 'area developments' should join them, and the other is about 'supercenters'

So, after SCOURING the iRUDH website, it is VERY CLEAR that their mission is very single minded and focused like a magnifying glass on an ant, and that they are specifically in business to stop the walmart, for whatever personal reasons they have, as their listed reasons of traffic and safety issues are unfounded, just as their lawsuit will be.

You ignore all of it and chart a course for them based on your subjective interpretation of a broad mission statement in order to have your little Ann Coulter moment. But you have never had anything to say on the merits. You just call concerned citizens snobs and attack and try to intimidate people for having the guts to stand up against powerful interests based on a phony argument. It is cowardly and intellectually dishonest.

He ignores nothing, cause you bald-faced lied and the information you said exists DOES NOT EXIST. What alternate universe are you living in??!!!

Edited November 16, 2011 by samagon

[J008]

Number 1, number 10, number last. It doesn't matter.

It does matter.

City resources are limited. Diverting resources that would otherwise go to the city's general needs for the benefit of an entity that is arguably over capitalized is wasteful.

[Ross]

by revenue they are #1

http://money.cnn.com...shots/2255.html

Using revenues alone as a measure of corporate size is utterly without merit, and one reason I've always thought the Fortune numbers were useless. Any reasonable method has ExxonMobil at the top. More profits, more shareholder's equity, more value in the market, etc.

[RedScare]

It does matter.

City resources are limited. Diverting resources that would otherwise go to the city's general needs for the benefit of an entity that is arguably over capitalized is wasteful.

I agree that it does matter. And, given the fact that heretofore, Walmart's ringed the City without being located within it, the million of dollars the City would realize from property and sales taxes were going uncollected. Incentivizing Walmart to locate within city limits is good government, despite the short-sighted opposition's claims. None of this wailing and knashing of teeth will stop the 84% of Americans (and Houstonians) from shopping at Walmart. However, if Walmart remains outside city limits, those sales tax dollars will go only into county coffers. City taxes will not be collected at all. I, for one, like my tax burden spread around. If city residents patronize a Walmart within the city, as opposed to just outside of it, my tax burden...as well as RUDH members'...is reduced. That is a good thing.

RUDH has done absolutely nothing that benefits me. Their petty protests against the hillbilly Walmart only hurt city tax revenue, and prevent Yale and Heights from being repaved. Therefore, any publication of their hypocrisy and pettiness is welcomed. Misstatements of fact by s3mk also help, as it allows me and others to refute them publicly, again exposing the hypocrisy of s3mk and RUDH.

Keep posting. We'll keep shooting you down.

[samagon]

It does matter.

City resources are limited. Diverting resources that would otherwise go to the city's general needs for the benefit of an entity that is arguably over capitalized is wasteful.

In so much as it is something you care about, yeah, it matters.

In so much as it has any bearing on who can apply, and be approved for a 380 agreement, not so much.

Go read the Texas constitution link I posted to the 380 requirements, no where does it state a monetary requirement.

[J008]

In so much as it is something you care about, yeah, it matters.

In so much as it has any bearing on who can apply, and be approved for a 380 agreement, not so much.

Go read the Texas constitution link I posted to the 380 requirements, no where does it state a monetary requirement.

I would be suprised if cronyism isn't codified in there, this just being one of its manifestations.

[samagon]

I would be suprised if cronyism isn't codified in there, this just being one of its manifestations.

well, the 380, as it was amended to the constitution was approved by voters after it was approved in a 2/3rd majority of both the Texas house and senate. We can like it or not, but maybe those who voted yes on it when it was a proposition didn't see the eventuality of a major company that shouldn't need the assistance being offered the assistance (and finally taking the assistance when they were going to build anyway), hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but the fact is, it's the way it is now.

It's a great example of why it's important for each voter to not vote based on what someone tells them to do, but to read the proposition and think, what are the potential misuses of this? And then be truly and informed voter.

Make no mistake of it, I'm not happy they are using this tool in their disposal, but it's within the law the way it's being used.

[TheNiche]

I would be suprised if cronyism isn't codified in there, this just being one of its manifestations.

One of many. Don't get me started on the ease with which non-profit entities can be abused to line the pockets of their offi...oh, wait, never mind. Too late!

The abuse of well-intentioned federal and state financing laws is a cottage industry run amok. It only goes to show that the powers of government (and even of the people to give to will that the government should have more power) should be curtailed, audited, and made plainly transparent for the world to see.

[J008]

One of many. Don't get me started on the ease with which non-profit entities can be abused to line the pockets of their offi...oh, wait, never mind. Too late!

The abuse of well-intentioned federal and state financing laws is a cottage industry run amok. It only goes to show that the powers of government (and even of the people to give to will that the government should have more power) should be curtailed, audited, and made plainly transparent for the world to see.

completely agree

[JJxvi]

Why did this thread pop back up for no reason? I guess I'll give it a reason.

Edited January 3, 2012 by JJxvi

[J008]

Why did this thread pop back up for no reason? I guess I'll give it a reason.

Don't know? I saw my name next to it and wondered if my account had been tampered with. Looked at the entry and there was nothing there?

[20thStDad]

It's a poll. New votes bump it.

[samagon]

I should change my vote daily ;-)

on a related note, I haven't been off the freeway, but glanced over one day last week as I was a passenger on i-10, I saw some buildings being erected off of Yale. I can only assume these are part of the project?

as happy as I am that I will have a Walmart closer to my house in a better area than the current Walmart, I'm not so enthusiastic as to make a trip specifically for cruising around the build site.

[s3mh]

I saw some buildings being erected off of Yale. I can only assume these are part of the project?

They are not part of the Ainbinder/Walmart development. Orr Commercial owns the property and has put in a strip mall on the parcel between Yale and Heights south of Koehler/2nd. They also own the property south of that down to the rr tracks. Word is that they (Orr) plan an apartment complex for that plot.

[Northwood]

That remaining Orr tract would make for a good Trader Joes site.

[samagon]

That remaining Orr tract would make for a good Trader Joes site.

Well, if the complaints against Walmart are to be believed, it would be a horrible site. There's the condition of the bridge, the size of the roads, being in a residential neighborhood, etc. review contents of this thread for all the reasons the site should not be used for any large retail location.

But then, who knows, Trader Joe's isn't Walmart, so it's likely all the opposition to large retail would just melt away like snow on a warm afternoon...

Edited January 10, 2012 by samagon

[Texasota]

Eh, the thing is:

Trader Joe's is NOT Walmart.

Yes, they are likey to generate some traffic, but they're not on anything like the same scale. Most TJ's locations are quite small- 20,000 square feet is standard.

I have no idea how big the Heights Walmart will be, but it's safe to say it will be over 100,000 square feet.

And yes, people react differently to a grocery store than they do to Walmart. I'm sorry, but there are plenty of reasons to dislike Walmart that are unique to that particular corporation.

Everything from their treatment of employees to the unique unpleasantness (subjective of course) of their stores can provide additional ammunition for a reasonable person.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Texasota

[TheNiche]

I, too, hope that the Heights (or somewhere close enough that the Heights can rhetorically annex the location) gets a Trader Joe's. Thereafter, I can mockingly congradulate them for being more Woodlands-icious than ever before.

[mcook2002]

I, too, hope that the Heights (or somewhere close enough that the Heights can rhetorically annex the location) gets a Trader Joe's. Thereafter, I can mockingly congradulate them for being more Woodlands-icious than ever before.

minus that whole 30 miles away from the city part. but, yeah, i get you brah. sweet reference to annexation.

[s3mh]

I, too, hope that the Heights (or somewhere close enough that the Heights can rhetorically annex the location) gets a Trader Joe's. Thereafter, I can mockingly congradulate them for being more Woodlands-icious than ever before.

Yeah. Every time I am up in The Woodlands, all I hear about is how much they hate Walmart, want a more walkable/less car centric neighborhood and want to preserve historic bungalows and shop at small independent businesses. CongraTulations. You really nailed it this time.

And Trader Joe's is typically 12-15k sq feet. They tend to prefer to go into a strip mall rather than free standing store. (You could fit at least ten Trader Joes into the Heights Walmart.) I think the apartment complex is more than likely a go considering the lack of building inside the loop over the recession has made the market ripe for new complexes.

[SilverJK]

Yeah. Every time I am up in The Woodlands, all I hear about is how much they hate Walmart, want a more walkable/less car centric neighborhood and want to preserve historic bungalows and shop at small independent businesses. CongraTulations. You really nailed it this time.

Aside from preserving historic bungalows, that is EXACTLY what i hear from people from The Woodlands. They Hate walmart but love Whole Foods/Trader Joes, want more bike paths and trails, and brag about how much they like shopping at the boutique stores (although a lot of them are not independent...)

Apparently, now we have to worry about people robbing the "Heights" walmart with AK-47s. = ]

[J008]

Apparently, now we have to worry about people robbing the "Heights" walmart with AK-47s. = ]

It will give the Heights kroger a run for its money.

[samagon]

Most TJ's locations are quite small- 20,000 square feet is standard.

well, my only experience with TJ does not jive with that, but as my only experience with TJ is only of one location in a different state, I will reserve further comparison. However I will offer my experience, the TJ I experienced in California was a store on a comparable scale with the new whole foods on waugh/dallas. while not as big as a Walmart, it's still of a scale that poses the same fundamental issues that Walmart would bring, in that semi trucks have to get there, traffic on the street will increase, etc. etc. etc.

[s3mh]

well, my only experience with TJ does not jive with that, but as my only experience with TJ is only of one location in a different state, I will reserve further comparison. However I will offer my experience, the TJ I experienced in California was a store on a comparable scale with the new whole foods on waugh/dallas. while not as big as a Walmart, it's still of a scale that poses the same fundamental issues that Walmart would bring, in that semi trucks have to get there, traffic on the street will increase, etc. etc. etc.

Your only experience is that you cannot tell how big a store is. Montrose Whole Foods is 45000. Trader Joes are on average 12,000-15,000 sq ft. It is part of their business strategy. They stock only about 4,000 product skus as opposed to 50000 that a typical grocery store stocks. That lets them save money on overhead (small stores) and get major price concessions from suppliers for near exclusivity and guaranteed excellent sales. If there is a Trader Joes on the West Coast that is 45,000, it is an exception to the over 300 other stores that are about the size of a CVS. And a12,000-15,000 sq ft store that is not open 24 hours is not anywhere near the scale that would cause any of the same concerns that the Walmart will cause. That is just flat out wrong.

[RedScare]

Good to see this thread revived. I had missed s3mh's "facts" and "concerns" and knowledge of Woodlands residents. I am especially fond of her "concerns" over Walmart's 24 hour status. Kroger has been a 24 hour store for years and has never posed a problem. In fact, I enjoy going in there late night when the uppity Heights crowd is asleep. I've shopped 24 Walmarts too (in The Woodlands, no less!), and found it to be a good time to go. I loaded up on Ike supplies before the crowds hit back in 2008.

The love of Trader Joes, Whole Foods and Target just shows that the Walmart haters are hypocrites who love chains and big boxes...just so long as it is THEIR chain big box. Whatever.

Note: I noticed as I drove up Yale today that they are ripping out the historic asphalt in front of the Orr property. Brought tears to my eyes. What use is my Jeep if the pavement is smooth!

[lockmat]

Aside from preserving historic bungalows, that is EXACTLY what i hear from people from The Woodlands. They Hate walmart but love Whole Foods/Trader Joes, want more bike paths and trails, and brag about how much they like shopping at the boutique stores (although a lot of them are not independent...)

Apparently, now we have to worry about people robbing the "Heights" walmart with AK-47s. = ]

There are three Walmarts in the Woodlands area. I've never heard anyone from the Woodlands say they dislike it. And even if a some have said that, I'm sure it's not the majority. Those who don't like it probably can afford to shop at boutique type places, too. And not all the Woodlands is that type.