Mayor Says 2 Rail Lines In Doubt

[RocketSci]

Houston mayor says 2 rail lines in doubt

"Mayor Annise Parker cast doubt Wednesday on whether the Metropolitan Transit Authority has the money to pay for two planned light-rail lines that proponents say are critical to the success of the agency's plans."

[N Judah]

Well I'm most interested in seeing what "very, very rapidly" (referring to construction of the 3 lines Parker thinks are feasible) means.

[Triton]

What? WHAT? What is she talking about? Why the University line out of all the other lines? Even the article states that the University line is probably the most essential line that needs to be built out of all of them since it will have the most impact out of the five.

I supported Annis Parker but this decision makes me wonder what the hell is going through her head.

[kdog08]

It is perplexing that the lines that are least tied to our LRT's success have secured funding, while the lines that will be the most important are uncertain and haven't broken ground. I support the LRT expansion in its concept, but this has definitely confused in the priority of funding. Perhaps someone could explain this financial dubiousness.

[TheNiche]

It is perplexing that the lines that are least tied to our LRT's success have secured funding, while the lines that will be the most important are uncertain and haven't broken ground. I support the LRT expansion in its concept, but this has definitely confused in the priority of funding. Perhaps someone could explain this financial dubiousness.

My understanding is that it isn't a matter of want or need for the lines in question; it's a matter of whether METRO can finance them without running a high risk of insolvency. If Parker's concerns are legitimate (and I don't know enough to say whether they are or are not) then she'd be crazy not to at least take on an air of caution.

[TheNiche]

Even the article states that the University line is probably the most essential line that needs to be built out of all of them since it will have the most impact out of the five.

Actually, that was David Crossley. Never mind him, though. He's among the least relevant people the Chronicle ever bothers to quote. ...and that's really saying something.

[N Judah]

Maybe get the feds to pay for all of the two remaining lines? They're the most viable candidates, as they will both have good projected ridership numbers. The economy's worse than ever, so maybe there's another stimulus package on the way. Or just siphon < 1% of the $10 trillion they've already used to bail out the banks and we could have more LRT lines than we have freeways!

[livincinco]

It is perplexing that the lines that are least tied to our LRT's success have secured funding, while the lines that will be the most important are uncertain and haven't broken ground. I support the LRT expansion in its concept, but this has definitely confused in the priority of funding. Perhaps someone could explain this financial dubiousness.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but this sounds like political posturing to me. If they can't fund the East End line, it probably never gets built. If they can't fund the University line, it creates a lot more media coverage and a stronger case to gain outside funding.

[SaintCyr]

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but this sounds like political posturing to me. If they can't fund the East End line, it probably never gets built. If they can't fund the University line, it creates a lot more media coverage and a stronger case to gain outside funding.

The same thought went through my head... Secure the least likely, that won't draw media coverage and leave the most critical that will get media coverage in doubt. This creates an urgency and NEED to fund the other 2 lines in order to see success. Almost creates a job security type situation for METRO, which may have been the plan all along. I'm really hoping they don't pull the rail projects, as I think its critical for Houston's economic success in the near-distant future.

[kylejack]

This also comes on the heels of the businesses on Post Oak complaining. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

[Marksmu]

Maybe get the feds to pay for all of the two remaining lines? They're the most viable candidates, as they will both have good projected ridership numbers. The economy's worse than ever, so maybe there's another stimulus package on the way. Or just siphon < 1% of the $10 trillion they've already used to bail out the banks and we could have more LRT lines than we have freeways!

The light rail in Houston does not qualify for the federal money because the cost to benefit is too low. It costs far more than it benefits. They applied and were turned down. Buses in Houston are still by far the most efficient, and cost effective way to reduce congestion. The rail line is a joke, its Houston's attempt to look green and fancy because professionals do not want to ride a bus because it still has a stigma of being low class.

This also comes on the heels of the businesses on Post Oak complaining. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

They should complain. Its a terrible idea. The rail will not reduce congestion and WILL put those businesses out of business. The rail is a joke. We are in a recession, and the governments idea is to destroy tax revenue by putting a rail line through and disrupting the largest shopping and tax hub in the whole city. These people are idiots.

[kylejack]

They should complain. Its a terrible idea. The rail will not reduce congestion and WILL put those businesses out of business.

Nah, not really. I know plenty of people that won't let a little re-routing keep them from Kenny and Ziggy's.

[Marksmu]

Nah, not really. I know plenty of people that won't let a little re-routing keep them from Kenny and Ziggy's.

I know plenty of people who already avoid the galleria area like the plague because of traffic. If you can imagine the traffic during construction it will be unbearable. Fast forward past completion, and think about how wonderful the traffic is going to flow with the lights all turning red while the stupid empty train rolls past every 10-15 minutes...now imagine it during the holidays. Its an awful plan. A much more efficient use of money would be to put parking lots in un-used but populated areas and bus the people to and from the mall from those places.

It would be cheaper to run a bus every 30 minutes than it would be to build the line. Same goal achieved, fraction of the money spent, and reduced traffic.

For example...heights/midtown. Change the area off of Yale that is currently vacant and was recently sold into a large park and ride. 1 destination...the galleria. Bus operates M-F every 45 minutes. Sat/Sunday every 30 minutes. Increase frequency during holiday.

The rail is a joke. It will only make things much worse.

The government needs to stop condemning private property of individuals for politically charged boondoggles. The rail is popular with environmental folks...despite the fact that it is a failure in town, they want another...its unbelievable.

[kylejack]

I know plenty of people who already avoid the galleria area like the plague because of traffic.

"No one goes there any more, its too crowded."

Yogi Berra

[Houston19514]

The light rail in Houston does not qualify for the federal money because the cost to benefit is too low. It costs far more than it benefits. They applied and were turned down.

That is flat-out 100% false.

[Marksmu]

That is flat-out 100% false.

It failed to qualify under the old rules. It MAY qualify under the new rules that the idiot in chief's administration has put forward. It was even in the Chronicle rag.

Straight from the chronicle Jan 15

"U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said this week that the Obama administration would consider “livability issues,” such as environmental benefits or economic development, in its evaluations of requests for federal money for new rail or bus rapid-transit systems.

The formula used by the Bush administration, LaHood said, essentially weighed the costs of new projects against time saved and distance traveled for commuters."

Its a terrible plan. Plain and simple. Its a high dollar waste of tax payer money so a few liberals and their friends can feel good about themselves.

[Houston19514]

It failed to qualify under the old rules. It MAY qualify under the new rules that the idiot in chief's administration has put forward. It was even in the Chronicle rag.

Straight from the chronicle Jan 15

"U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said this week that the Obama administration would consider “livability issues,” such as environmental benefits or economic development, in its evaluations of requests for federal money for new rail or bus rapid-transit systems.

The formula used by the Bush administration, LaHood said, essentially weighed the costs of new projects against time saved and distance traveled for commuters."

Its a terrible plan. Plain and simple. Its a high dollar waste of tax payer money so a few liberals and their friends can feel good about themselves.

None of that is terribly relevant to your statement that "They applied [for federal funding] and were turned down." Show us some evidence of that.

[Marksmu]

None of that is terribly relevant to your statement that "They applied [for federal funding] and were turned down." Show us some evidence of that.

Widely known that when Rail originally applied for Federal Funds Tom Delay shut it down by changing the rules to require federal transit money meet a separate set of rules. Thats being undone now.

Didnt search long found this:

In 2000, the congressman killed $65 million appropriated by Congress for the now-planned Main Street line and proceeded to write language into the federal transportation bill effectively making it impossible for Houston to receive money for light rail from Washington. The Houston Chronicle quoted congresswoman Sheila Jackson-Lee (D) in reaction: “I will not tolerate, no matter whether he is in the leadership or not, some Texas congressperson blocking federal funds coming into the 18th District. I’ve never heard of such a thing.” Ms. Jackson-Lee, far less powerful in Congress at the time, actually represents Houston.

[ricco67]

Widely known that when Rail originally applied for Federal Funds Tom Delay shut it down by changing the rules to require federal transit money meet a separate set of rules. Thats being undone now.

Didnt search long found this:

In 2000, the congressman killed $65 million appropriated by Congress for the now-planned Main Street line and proceeded to write language into the federal transportation bill effectively making it impossible for Houston to receive money for light rail from Washington. The Houston Chronicle quoted congresswoman Sheila Jackson-Lee (D) in reaction: “I will not tolerate, no matter whether he is in the leadership or not, some Texas congressperson blocking federal funds coming into the 18th District. I’ve never heard of such a thing.” Ms. Jackson-Lee, far less powerful in Congress at the time, actually represents Houston.

Geocities link? Really?

I remember a good portion of that and I can (to some extent) verify what you state, however, I don't recall the aftermath of what happened. Aside from the Red line being built to SPITE Tom Delay, I never heard anything of the bill afterward.

[Marksmu]

Geocities link? Really?

I remember a good portion of that and I can (to some extent) verify what you state, however, I don't recall the aftermath of what happened. Aside from the Red line being built to SPITE Tom Delay, I never heard anything of the bill afterward.

The article I got that from wasn't geocities...it just linked to that junk. I already closed the window or I would paste the link.

I dont really care where the funding comes from....I just think the rail is a huge waste of money and a huge inconvenience for the MAJORITY of people in Houston...it is not the cheapest or the most efficient way of moving people to high traffic areas. Buses remain the cheapest, most efficient, and for that matter flexible way of moving people to high volume areas.

In the event of a Cat 5 hurricane and a mass evacuation I would like all those people who think Rail is the answer to take their silly rail out of the way of the storm. The buses out of town will be reserved for those who voted with common sense rather than emotion or environmental feelings.

The rail is just another example of a very vocal Minority getting their way because the majority is too busy going about their lives and just trying to be left alone by an ever more intrusive government.

[kylejack]

The rail line is a joke, its Houston's attempt to look green and fancy because professionals do not want to ride a bus because it still has a stigma of being low class.

Its an awful plan. A much more efficient use of money would be to put parking lots in un-used but populated areas and bus the people to and from the mall from those places.

How would it be more efficient to do a bus plan that people won't want to ride because of a low class stigma?

[ricco67]

The article I got that from wasn't geocities...it just linked to that junk. I already closed the window or I would paste the link.

I dont really care where the funding comes from....I just think the rail is a huge waste of money and a huge inconvenience for the MAJORITY of people in Houston...it is not the cheapest or the most efficient way of moving people to high traffic areas. Buses remain the cheapest, most efficient, and for that matter flexible way of moving people to high volume areas.

In the event of a Cat 5 hurricane and a mass evacuation I would like all those people who think Rail is the answer to take their silly rail out of the way of the storm. The buses out of town will be reserved for those who voted with common sense rather than emotion or environmental feelings.

The rail is just another example of a very vocal Minority getting their way because the majority is too busy going about their lives and just trying to be left alone by an ever more intrusive government.

Why do people still use the "We can't evacuate the city on the rail system" comment? Sorry, but I think that's one of the most idiotic statements/arguments ever.

Then again, in a city this size, all you have to do is go to the west side of town to escape most of the damage.

But wait! Let's use that example, perhaps we can use the (built out system) as a way to get people on the trains to go to the Hillcroft transit center as a CENTRALIZED way to get on a bus for those people that don't have cars!

Maybe we CAN use it to evacuate the city.

[august948]

How would it be more efficient to do a bus plan that people won't want to ride because of a low class stigma?

That's the crux of the transportation problem. Most of our congestion isn't caused by the poor driving to and from their jobs. They tend to use the bus much more. The problem is getting mostly white, mostly middle-class, mostly suburban drivers to use public transport rather than driving. To do that you have to have modes of transportation that are appealing to that demographic and you have to run to the places they live and to the places they want to go. That's why the University and Uptown lines are so important as well as getting rail solutions pushed out beyond the loop.

[Highway6]

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed by Marksmu are the personal opinions of Marksmu and should not be considered the opinion of all conservative Haifers

Its a terrible plan. Plain and simple. Its a high dollar waste of tax payer money so a few liberals and their friends can feel good about themselves.

The government needs to stop condemning private property of individuals for politically charged boondoggles. The rail is popular with environmental folks...despite the fact that it is a failure in town, they want another...its unbelievable.

As someone who has grown weary of the green movement and a pro-rail conservative, I'm tired of your generalizations. You make conservatives look bad so stop watering down the argument with labels and dragging the rest of us down.

The rail is just another example of a very vocal Minority getting their way because the majority is too busy going about their lives and just trying to be left alone by an ever more intrusive government.

The fact that the 03 referendum passed means a majority of voters wanted it to pass. If you and your anti-rail friends wanted to be left alone, didnt want rail, yet were too busy going about your lives to vote it down, then you have only yourselves to blame.

As for evacuating -

You act like it is getting on rail and evacuating to a point 7 miles away at the end of the line, vs getting on any Metro bus and promptly being escorted ( past car evacuating traffic) to points 100s of miles outside the city and out of harm's way.

Guess what dude, had you chosen to evacuate by Metro during IKE, you would have ended up at the end of that bus line... which could have been downtown, could have been a crosstown, and if you had chosen to get on one that goes out to a park and ride, then you would have taken 6 hours to get there due to all the cars evacuating and you'd then be stuck at a point only 20-30 miles outside of town, still in harm's way.

What evacuating MEtro did do, was to use the smaller busses to pick up invalids and take them downtown to the convention center.

MEtro Busses didnt safely get tens of thousands out of the city, and even if they had been used in that capacity, they would have been stuck on freeways with all the cars hoping not to run out of gas. Ultimately Metro can't do squat to truly evacuate the city. Until we have a Texas rail system, everyone is stuck evacuating by freeway. When we Do have a Texas rail system as a alternative to fleeing the city... would you rather be in a bus in a traffic jam of cars trying to get to that rail station, or skirting by the road traffic on metrorail?

[Marksmu]

How would it be more efficient to do a bus plan that people won't want to ride because of a low class stigma?

Because its incredibly cheaper and more efficient to run buses that people wont ride than it is to buy up the land, build a train track, disrupt the businesses and taxes along the route, and then run a train that people still dont ride.

Cost of a bus to travel the same route as a train guesstimate $185,000? I dont know maybe $285,000? Ive never priced a bus.

Cost of a light rail route - $300,000,000

With a bus as the high volume areas of Houston change or the needs change, so can the routes...with a train, as the high volume as the areas change, your screwed. You still have a train running to the same places.

There are so many advantages to a bus over a train its not even funny. The only disadvantage is stigma.

The only advantage to a train is the appearance of being environmentally friendly.

The same people who wont ride a bus wont ride the train, for the same reason they wont ride the bus.

[AtticaFlinch]

That is flat-out 100% false.

Welcome to Marksmu.

[kylejack]

Because its incredibly cheaper and more efficient to run buses that people wont ride than it is to buy up the land, build a train track, disrupt the businesses and taxes along the route, and then run a train that people still dont ride.

The problem, though, is that you're dead wrong and our existing light rail track has very high ridership per mile.

[Marksmu]

The problem, though, is that you're dead wrong and our existing light rail track has very high ridership per mile.

Last survey I looked at showed that the train ridership was identical to the bus ridership along that route. The buses no longer run along the rail route. The ridership did not increase or decrease...it remained constant.

They simply canceled the buses along the trains route. Ridership was unaffected.

[Marksmu]

Welcome to Marksmu.

Why not just not post Attica? You said nothing, added nothing, and without a doubt the users comment that I was 100% wrong was 100% wrong. When the main street line was put in, and up until January 15, Houston Rail did NOT qualify for federal funding.

As of January 15, they could reapply. I have not heard if the aid was granted.

So again, you said nothing, added nothing, but did waste everyone's time.

[JJVilla]

The problem, though, is that you're dead wrong and our existing light rail track has very high ridership per mile.

Kind of funny thing that happened this weekend while riding the train from the Museum and Rodeo--some guy was complaining about the "worthless" light rail while giving back-handed compliments. Point is that the line gets good use even by anti-rail people. It's not about being Green or liberal/left since I know many people that work in oil business (that are normally considered conservative) that support this deal. I am all for anything that improves our transportation system by giving us diverse options!