The Way Houston's METRO Light Rail Should Have Been

[new major on the block]

Lightrail will never reach the level of efficiency needed to service this city. I'm all for public transportation but it just won't happen because it just won't solve the traffic problems here. This city is too spread out, for it to be an option for most. The fact is most of the traffic problems in Houston spawn from the outter suburbs. More people drive 20 to 30 miles into Houston to work and shop which clog the freeways then feeder roads, and such. Even when and of if METRO decides to run their lightrail line out to the suburbs, noone in their right mind is going to jump on a train that does 45mph and stop every minute for a station.

Of course thats where commuter rail comes in right? Well even then, youre still gonna have to get off the commuter rail line, probably in downtown, and either jump on a METRO bus or lightrail to continue on to your destination. The actual time for all this changing modes of transportation coupled with the cost of a ticket, I doubt it will be a single dollar for both commuter rail and then bus or lightrail, will not be worth the hassle. People will still opt to drive by themselves. Even if it was actually cheaper to jump on a commuter rail then to a lightrail or bus to get to work and back everyday, I am willing to bet most people will still refuse to ride because it will still take longer than just sailing down the freeway at 70mph. Sure once you hit rushhour, you might sit because of some accident or two, but depending on what actual time you leave for work, sometimes you miss make it through without a hitch.

Its a great idea for those who live in the inner city who would rather save their vehicles for traveling out of town for trips and vacations but its still limited on where you can go on it at this point. When they finish the lines im sure it will be even more efficient than it is now but, it will still be primarily used for the inner city folks located close to the lines.

Houston, as a city, will probably resemble Los Angeles of today within the next 15 to 20 years, not necessarily in population size, but as far as a similar transportation system trying to cater to urban sprawl. Houston's already spread out over 500 sq mi, but will still have difficulty in managing the traffic that will continue to clog up the freeway system. Yes, people use their system(speaking of L.A.'s system) but not nearly the numbers i'm sure they would like to see or originally expected.

This current system and plan is the most reasonable and "COST EFFECTIVE" system that METRO could get to the citizens of Houston to atleast start to alleviate the problem. I mean its possible that the city of Houston could have had a system that would've ben a web of fast moving subways (like New York) and steel elevated track (like Chicago, I mean El, not monorail like some seem to think when I mention elevated trains) with a mix of High speed elevated commuter rail( MAGLEV like China and a few others) that services from Galveston to Huntsville I-45 corridor, Katy to Baytown and maybe even Beaumont I-10 corridor, Sugarland to cleveland Hwy 59 corridor, and Hempstead to Houston for Hwy 290 etc. Who wouldn't love to just jump on a MAGLEV train say in Katy and want to go to galveston for the day. Leave Katy at 7:30am and be at the main transfer hub right north of Downtown in just about 10 min. Then jump onto the next one out to Galveston that maybe makes 3 stops all the way there. But you still arrive in Galveston by 8:10 or 8:15.

But who am I kidding, integrated systems like these would probably set the city back soo far, the generations growing up in the year 3000 would still be paying it off. Too bad though, it would've definatley put "space city" on the map as far as transporation is concerned in the 21st century. I guess its time to stop daydreaming and face reality, I gotta be to work early in the morning.

[kylejack]

Of course thats where commuter rail comes in right? Well even then, youre still gonna have to get off the commuter rail line, probably in downtown, and either jump on a METRO bus or lightrail to continue on to your destination. The actual time for all this changing modes of transportation coupled with the cost of a ticket, I doubt it will be a single dollar for both commuter rail and then bus or lightrail, will not be worth the hassle. People will still opt to drive by themselves. Even if it was actually cheaper to jump on a commuter rail then to a lightrail or bus to get to work and back everyday, I am willing to bet most people will still refuse to ride because it will still take longer than just sailing down the freeway at 70mph. Sure once you hit rushhour, you might sit because of some accident or two, but depending on what actual time you leave for work, sometimes you miss make it through without a hitch.

What you say people will never do: many many people are already doing this with a commuter bus and rail. I ride the rail with these people every day. Drive around downtown at 5 PM and you'll see lots of people standing in long lines to get on commuter buses.

[AtticaFlinch]

What you say people will never do: many many people are already doing this with a commuter bus and rail. I ride the rail with these people every day. Drive around downtown at 5 PM and you'll see lots of people standing in long lines to get on commuter buses.

Long, long lines.

Plus, the idea that anyone in Houston sails along at 70 mph during rush hour is a pipe dream.

[SaintCyr]

Houston, as a city, will probably resemble Los Angeles of today within the next 15 to 20 years, not necessarily in population size, but as far as a similar transportation system trying to cater to urban sprawl. Houston's already spread out over 500 sq mi, but will still have difficulty in managing the traffic that will continue to clog up the freeway system. Yes, people use their system(speaking of L.A.'s system) but not nearly the numbers i'm sure they would like to see or originally expected.

Next 15-20 years. This brings up a good question. Are people going to be willing to pay $10-15 or more per gallon of gas and sit in traffic? My answer would be no. I don't think we will see a sprawl like we have in the past, but quite the opposite. We have begun to see it all over the nation with the revitalization of our downtown and innercity areas because people are living closer to work/play/shopping and don't want to pay huge ammounts in fuel costs to get where they want to go. Think about how cities were structured and where people lived when fuel was too high priced to afford, vertical. You end up with something that looks like most large European cities, and New York. To say that we will be similar to LA as far as sprawl is saying that everything as it is today will continue with no changes.

That being said, an inner city mass transit system with light rail and commuter trains doesnt seem so unlikely. Granted, light rail may not be the best option out there BUT is is a better option than most. Subways I'm going to say are not feasible simply because we have MAJOR, uncontrollable issues with flooding in Houston, which can only be managed and strategically built around. Raised, high speed trains is not a bad idea but you are right in the fact that Houston WILL not afford to put it in, not CAN not afford it but will not. If we were to take a good look at the transit plan they are building our city around, a lot of the contruction they are planning on starting in the next 10 years could be scaled down or eliminated if they redirected traffic to a mass transit system.

I think we will see some big changes in the way we travel over the next couple of decades and this will cause big changes in the way that city planning thinks.

D

[samagon]

Houston, as a city, will probably resemble Los Angeles of today within the next 15 to 20 years, not necessarily in population size, but as far as a similar transportation system trying to cater to urban sprawl. Houston's already spread out over 500 sq mi, but will still have difficulty in managing the traffic that will continue to clog up the freeway system. Yes, people use their system(speaking of L.A.'s system) but not nearly the numbers i'm sure they would like to see or originally expected.

The only problem I see with your prediction is costs. Will the costs associated with operating a vehicle (fuel, taxes, parking, etc) outweigh the costs of using mass transit?

Who's to say that the current model for the tollroad portion of I-10 won't be expanded to cover all main lanes at peak hours? Who's to say that the city won't levy some heavy tax burdens on parking lots that get passed on to commuters during the week? We may be seeing cheap gas prices (compared to the $4 we saw in mid 2008) now, but who's to say in a year, or two years that this price won't escalate more, outstripping the pace that we can create alternative fuels to compensate?

The current system may be lacking when compared against the current atmosphere, but it may just be what we need in 4 years. and then again, maybe not.

[new major on the block]

Next 15-20 years. This brings up a good question. Are people going to be willing to pay $10-15 or more per gallon of gas and sit in traffic? My answer would be no. I don't think we will see a sprawl like we have in the past, but quite the opposite. We have begun to see it all over the nation with the revitalization of our downtown and innercity areas because people are living closer to work/play/shopping and don't want to pay huge ammounts in fuel costs to get where they want to go. Think about how cities were structured and where people lived when fuel was too high priced to afford, vertical. You end up with something that looks like most large European cities, and New York. To say that we will be similar to LA as far as sprawl is saying that everything as it is today will continue with no changes.

That being said, an inner city mass transit system with light rail and commuter trains doesnt seem so unlikely. Granted, light rail may not be the best option out there BUT is is a better option than most. Subways I'm going to say are not feasible simply because we have MAJOR, uncontrollable issues with flooding in Houston, which can only be managed and strategically built around. Raised, high speed trains is not a bad idea but you are right in the fact that Houston WILL not afford to put it in, not CAN not afford it but will not. If we were to take a good look at the transit plan they are building our city around, a lot of the contruction they are planning on starting in the next 10 years could be scaled down or eliminated if they redirected traffic to a mass transit system.

I think we will see some big changes in the way we travel over the next couple of decades and this will cause big changes in the way that city planning thinks.

D

But the idea of $10-15 in 15-20 years is plausable if you consider that there would be inflation and other factors. No one right now in this current economy would pay that much, at least not most of us. But even with all the new construction within the city will still never pull in all those millions who live outside of Houston to live an work closer. People down here want their space and are still continuing to move out further and further. The sprawl is continuing and won't stop just because of the "possibility" that gas prices will be that high and a few midrises might sprout up. Looking at the outter reaches of the suburbs shows its stretching out into the prairie lands and woodlands areas.

But lets say out of the blue people start moving into these revitalized areas that are targeted. This process, while good for a certain class of people, hurts others. To go in and practically force out people who have owned their lil homes for years is outrageous. These neighborhoods that have had generations of people growing up there are the areas targeted for such revitalization. This movement of development will force them out, just because they are poorer than the middle class and as such they don't happen to have such a higher standard of up keep that the suburbs do. It will probably become the complete reversal of "white Flight" and actually might just force the lower and lower-middle class to revert to the suburbs and there in start a vicious cycle.

But of course thats not gonna happen because people here, for the most part, will probably stay where theyre at or continue to move out. Maybe some areas will have more move in, but not to the extent as youre comparing to NY or Europe. If anything you will see more bus services out to the suburbs, private and public, similar to The Woodlands Express extending its reach deep into the outter areas of the suburban sprawl. That would be the alternative to the high gas prices you estimated.

BTW subways could work if they actually put a little thought and money into it. Anything is possible, it just costs money to do it, more money than anyone around here is willing to pay for though. But to say its not feasible because of uncontrollable flooding is simply an excuse to avoid the time and money it takes to actually build it.

[SaintCyr]

But the idea of $10-15 in 15-20 years is plausable if you consider that there would be inflation and other factors. No one right now in this current economy would pay that much, at least not most of us. But even with all the new construction within the city will still never pull in all those millions who live outside of Houston to live an work closer. People down here want their space and are still continuing to move out further and further. The sprawl is continuing and won't stop just because of the "possibility" that gas prices will be that high and a few midrises might sprout up. Looking at the outter reaches of the suburbs shows its stretching out into the prairie lands and woodlands areas.

Ok, so lets start with gasoline. It is produced from oil which is produced fields all over the world which:

A. All the easy fields are being used up... YES it is a LIMITED resource.

B. All the other oil is not worth the amount of money to extract it from the ground.

So simple economics tells us that in order to extract that hard stuff from the ground we will eventually have to charge more at the pump in order to make up for the profit margins that the oil companies charge (if you think they will lower profit margins you are sorely mistaken). Thats why 10 years ago gas was .75 cents and now we see it fluctuating between $2-4 bucks. With the current rate of countries becoming "industialized" i.e. China, our cheap gas will not last, that is a fact. There is where we get $10-15, which may be sooner than 15-20 years. So, I'm going to jump out on a limb and say "what about electic cars?!"... Well, it's obvious that there is a niche market for them now. However, that niche market is not going to create the cheap used car surplus that gasoline and diesel autos have now. SO, theres a gap. How long will it take before everyone can afford an electric car??? How long before the current electric grid can support charging those cars? Ok so, you say that gets rid of a few (or more) communters. Lets flip the coin and look at what we drive on, asphault and concrete. Well... asphault is the stuff at the bottom of the barrel at oil refineries, basically a by product which as oil dissappears it will follow in cost. Now concrete, which is a much better product made from mainly crushed limestone BUT making that concrete is pretty energy consuming (hence the reason we use asphault instead). Where does that energy come from? Cheap gas, which in turn causes concrete to follow the rise in gasoline price. The only option to pay for these roads will be to charge for them, just as we see through the outer loop. So as you see the price will rise, by how much? Only time will tell, but it in FACT will rise.

But lets say out of the blue people start moving into these revitalized areas that are targeted. This process, while good for a certain class of people, hurts others. To go in and practically force out people who have owned their lil homes for years is outrageous. These neighborhoods that have had generations of people growing up there are the areas targeted for such revitalization. This movement of development will force them out, just because they are poorer than the middle class and as such they don't happen to have such a higher standard of up keep that the suburbs do. It will probably become the complete reversal of "white Flight" and actually might just force the lower and lower-middle class to revert to the suburbs and there in start a vicious cycle.

But of course thats not gonna happen because people here, for the most part, will probably stay where theyre at or continue to move out. Maybe some areas will have more move in, but not to the extent as youre comparing to NY or Europe. If anything you will see more bus services out to the suburbs, private and public, similar to The Woodlands Express extending its reach deep into the outter areas of the suburban sprawl. That would be the alternative to the high gas prices you estimated.

Maybe... although bus lines will also be effected by the rise in gas costs and will hit a point to where they no longer become feasible.

BTW subways could work if they actually put a little thought and money into it. Anything is possible, it just costs money to do it, more money than anyone around here is willing to pay for though. But to say its not feasible because of uncontrollable flooding is simply an excuse to avoid the time and money it takes to actually build it.

I agree 100%, if you put enough time and money into it subways are possible. There was a reason I used the word feasible. It is NOT feasible to build a subway because of the unearthly amounts of cash and man hours in order to successfully complete it. The more feasible option would be to use existing roadways or construct a street level system.

Are you aware of the effects that $4 gas prices had on our habits as a society in 2008? Do some research, I think you would be surprised.

Edited for LOTS of spelling mistakes...

[AtticaFlinch]

Ok, so lets start with gasoline. It is produced from oil which is produced fields all over the world which:

A. All the easy fields are being used up... YES it is a LIMITED resource.

B. All the other oil is not worth the amount of money to extract it from the ground.

So simple economics tells us that in order to extract that hard stuff from the ground we will eventually have to charge more at the pump in order to make up for the profit margins that the oil companies charge (if you think they will lower profit margins you are sorely mistaken). Thats why 10 years ago gas was .75 cents and now we see it fluctuating between $2-4 bucks. With the current rate of countries becoming "industialized" i.e. China, our cheap gas will not last, that is a fact. There is where we get $10-15, which may be sooner than 15-20 years. So, I'm going to jump out on a limb and say "what about electic cars?!"... Well, it's obvious that there is a niche market for them now. However, that niche market is not going to create the cheap used car surplus that gasoline and diesel autos have now. SO, theres a gap. How long will it take before everyone can afford an electric car??? How long before the current electric grid can support charging those cars? Ok so, you say that gets rid of a few (or more) communters. Lets flip the coin and look at what we drive on, asphault and concrete. Well... asphault is the stuff at the bottom of the barrel at oil refineries, basically a by product which as oil dissappears it will follow in cost. Now concrete, which is a much better product made from mainly crushed limestone BUT making that concrete is pretty energy consuming (hence the reason we use asphault instead). Where does that energy come from? Cheap gas, which in turn causes concrete to follow the rise in gasoline price. The only option to pay for these roads will be to charge for them, just as we see through the outer loop. So as you see the price will rise, by how much? Only time will tell, but it in FACT will rise.

Maybe... although bus lines will also be effected by the rise in gas costs and will hit a point to where they no longer become feasible.

I agree 100%, if you put enough time and money into it subways are possible. There was a reason I used the word feasible. It is NOT feasible to build a subway because of the unearthly amounts of cash and man hours in order to successfully complete it. The more feasible option would be to use existing roadways or construct a street level system.

Are you aware of the effects that $4 gas prices had on our habits as a society in 2008? Do some research, I think you would be surprised.

Edited for LOTS of spelling mistakes...

Not to be nit-picky, but gas was about $1.50 ten years ago. And, when I started driving 16 years ago, it was already $.83. I remember it like it was yesterday. A pack of Marlboros only cost a buck seventy-five. I don't remember how much all those flannel shirts cost though. The only free things we had back then was vodka stolen from our parents' liquor cabinets and all the Zima we could wahoo from the Citgo. It would be another year or so before our palates matured enough to appreciate beer, so I'm not too certain the price on that at the time.

But yeah, the price of gas is rising exponentially. I'd just caution that your doomsday scenario probably won't happen in ten to fifteen years. That's most likely a bit too pessimistic of a prediction.

[new major on the block]

Ok, so lets start with gasoline. It is produced from oil which is produced fields all over the world which:

A. All the easy fields are being used up... YES it is a LIMITED resource.

B. All the other oil is not worth the amount of money to extract it from the ground.

So simple economics tells us that in order to extract that hard stuff from the ground we will eventually have to charge more at the pump in order to make up for the profit margins that the oil companies charge (if you think they will lower profit margins you are sorely mistaken). Thats why 10 years ago gas was .75 cents and now we see it fluctuating between $2-4 bucks. With the current rate of countries becoming "industialized" i.e. China, our cheap gas will not last, that is a fact. There is where we get $10-15, which may be sooner than 15-20 years. So, I'm going to jump out on a limb and say "what about electic cars?!"... Well, it's obvious that there is a niche market for them now. However, that niche market is not going to create the cheap used car surplus that gasoline and diesel autos have now. SO, theres a gap. How long will it take before everyone can afford an electric car??? How long before the current electric grid can support charging those cars? Ok so, you say that gets rid of a few (or more) communters. Lets flip the coin and look at what we drive on, asphault and concrete. Well... asphault is the stuff at the bottom of the barrel at oil refineries, basically a by product which as oil dissappears it will follow in cost. Now concrete, which is a much better product made from mainly crushed limestone BUT making that concrete is pretty energy consuming (hence the reason we use asphault instead). Where does that energy come from? Cheap gas, which in turn causes concrete to follow the rise in gasoline price. The only option to pay for these roads will be to charge for them, just as we see through the outer loop. So as you see the price will rise, by how much? Only time will tell, but it in FACT will rise.

Maybe... although bus lines will also be effected by the rise in gas costs and will hit a point to where they no longer become feasible.

I agree 100%, if you put enough time and money into it subways are possible. There was a reason I used the word feasible. It is NOT feasible to build a subway because of the unearthly amounts of cash and man hours in order to successfully complete it. The more feasible option would be to use existing roadways or construct a street level system.

Are you aware of the effects that $4 gas prices had on our habits as a society in 2008? Do some research, I think you would be surprised.

Edited for LOTS of spelling mistakes...

I really don't see the electric car market taking off anytime soon either. If anything it will fall to the use of bio diesel and such which many are pushing for. In that case that would probably be the main fuel for any transit buses that would service to outter communities. Maybe everyone will have a diesel car or truck to drive. But its still gonna take something more drastic than just switching to alternative fuels or electric vehicles to totally change the mindsets and habits that are practically becoming human nature here in the Houston area. By that I'm referring to getting as far away from the city as possible.

[SaintCyr]

Yeah I was a bit off with the 10 years ago pricing. Haha, I constantly forget how old I am and how much time has gone by. I don't mean to be gloomy and preachy on my prediction, I just see quite a bit being in the natural gas industry and I'm not sure a lot of people (even those I work with) are aware how much oil prices shape our life.

I agree that there is a notion that everyone deserves an acre and 3000+ square foot house, throughout the U.S. especially here in Houston. Let's just hope they are OK with driving in traffic for hours.

I think I hope your prediction of looking like LA in 10 years is wrong because if I do go out of town it would take hours to get home! Only time will tell, and not knowing is what makes life, life.

[onyxa]

Any chance of getting secured covered turnstile rail stations with the metro next plan? Yesterday had an annoying experience with drugged up assholes harassing metro rail paying individuals. Of course the assholes just walked up to the metro station without paying,  blustering about robbing the CVS in midtown and how they found some chick named Diamond at one of the stops. Besides the heat this is one of many controllable issues I see when trying to ride metro. I love Houston and I want this to be better. Thoughts?

[Texasota]

That would substantially increase both the cost of stations and the amount of space they require.

 

Don't think it would really affect the existence of assholes. Have you ever been to Philadelphia? Ridden SEPTA? Stations on the El are turnstiled, but they tend to be *much* worse than Houston LRT stations in those terms.

[BhutcA]

To be like Atlanta, Georgia's. 

 

Must rise above ground! New rails too! Then they stay above everything!