Why Iran fears Obama

[Trae]

Interesting article from the Jerusalem Post and basically says what I've been saying in regards to a popular American President around the world and how that helps us.

Despite this message, the conservative hard-line camp in Iran is worried about the overwhelming enthusiasm and support for the US that Obama's election has created around the world. A popular American president who talks about peace and wants to negotiate with Iran would take away their justification for leading the anti-American front in the Middle East. Furthermore, increased international support and credibility for the United States represents a more serious challenge to Iran, especially if the international community initiates new sanctions against Tehran. All this while oil prices are falling.

Who cares what the rest of the world thinks right?

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

[westguy76]

Just more of a reason for the BIAS media in this country to not sway public opinion of a sitting president and his policies at the detriment of our country.

[houstonmacbro]

We do care what others think. We might not want to admit it, but we do. Who wants to be hated or thought badly of?

[TJones]

No, Iran is afraid of Obama because he is NOT going to rescind (sp) Bush's blanket order for hunting terrorists. So Trae, how do you and the other Dems. feel about Obama continuing the Bush surveillance plans, i.e. wiretaps, bombings in other countries, doing what it takes to catch those lunatics? I am kinda liking Obama now that it looks like he will be usng some of Bush's playbook.

[dbigtex56]

No, Iran is afraid of Obama because he is NOT going to resend Bush's blanket order for hunting terrorists. So Trae, how do you and the other Dems. feel about Obama continuing the Bush surveillance plans, i.e. wiretaps, bombings in other countries, doing what it takes to catch those lunatics? I am kinda liking Obama now that it looks like he will be usng some of Bush's playbook.

I assume by "resend" you mean "recind".

I also assume you mean something by "Bush's blanket order for hunting terrorists", but exactly what, I cannot tell. The Patriot Act? Random declarations of war? Violations of the Geneva Convention?

Any quotes or sources?

[Trae]

I assume by "resend" you mean "recind".

I also assume you mean something by "Bush's blanket order for hunting terrorists", but exactly what, I cannot tell. The Patriot Act? Random declarations of war? Violations of the Geneva Convention?

Any quotes or sources?

Yes TJones. Please provide some.

[TJones]

Yes TJones. Please provide some.

Why must you people be spoon fed EVERYTHING ? And by "you people" I mean Demorats.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=o...ind+bush+orders

[Fringe]

The ONLY way to prevent another 9/11 is to keep putting pressure on terrorists. I say use any means possible. I think Obama is smart enough to do the same.

[VicMan]

TJones, the person who makes Claim A has the burden of proof of proving Claim A.

What the articles say is that he hasn't *decided* what decisions to reverse and when to reverse them.

Why must you people be spoon fed EVERYTHING ? And by "you people" I mean Demorats.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=o...ind+bush+orders

[memebag]

Why must you people be spoon fed EVERYTHING ? And by "you people" I mean Demorats.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=o...ind+bush+orders

It's because we've been lied to before. All I see from that link are a bunch of articles titled "No decisions on reversing Bush orders", and then go on to clarify comments made last Sunday:

"President-elect Obama will honor the commitment he made during the campaign to review all executive orders, but this process has not yet begun and no decisions have been made."

So where are you getting this information that he won't rescind a specific executive order?

[VicMan]

The ONLY way to prevent another 9/11 is to keep putting pressure on terrorists. I say use any means possible. I think Obama is smart enough to do the same.

But I want him to find a way to stay diplomatically kosher while doing so. We should try to get Iran to cooperate with us against Al Qaeda instead of making Iran feel threatened and therefore taking anti-US actions. This game is a mix of brawn and brains.

[Fringe]

But I want him to find a way to stay diplomatically kosher while doing so. We should try to get Iran to cooperate with us against Al Qaeda instead of making Iran feel threatened and therefore taking anti-US actions. This game is a mix of brawn and brains.

I would also but you have to know what we are dealing with. As long as the US supports Israel they (Iran and every other Arab country) will hate us and want to kill us. That's just the facts of life. These people see negotiations as a sign of weakness. Don’t believe me? Ask anyone from Israel.

[dbigtex56]

Why must you people be spoon fed EVERYTHING ? And by "you people" I mean Demorats.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=o...ind+bush+orders

If by "everything" you mean "facts", it's because we value credibility.

Repeating "Drank the Kool-Aid....Drank the Kool-Aid" doesn't convince me of one's accuracy or powers of rational thinking.

[Trae]

Why must you people be spoon fed EVERYTHING ? And by "you people" I mean Demorats.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=o...ind+bush+orders

Still waiting on the links...

[VicMan]

I would also but you have to know what we are dealing with. As long as the US supports Israel they (Iran and every other Arab country) will hate us and want to kill us. That's just the facts of life. These people see negotiations as a sign of weakness. Don

[RedScare]

Iran is Persian, not Arab. Plus, the funny thing is that when the Shah, a U.S. ally, was in power, Iran actively supported Israel. Once the mullahs gained power this stance was reversed.

Keep in mind that there are Persian vs. Arab and Shiite vs. Sunni divisions. These groups will never present a united front against the U.S. because they are constantly fighting each other. Al Qaeda lost with the Shiites when Al Qaeda in Iraq started targeting Shiites.

Come on, Vic. You are needlessly complicating Bush's simple but effective "Good vs. Evil" stance. It is not important to understand your opponent. Just lump them all together and hate them. Bringing facts to the discussion just muddies the waters.

[TJones]

Still waiting on the links...

Still waiting for you to answer the question about how you feel Obama sticking with Bush's executive orders. It seems that the only executive order Obama DOES plan to rescind is the Stem Cell research one. WHOA OBAMA, slow down there big guy !

[dbigtex56]

Still waiting for you to answer the question about how you feel Obama sticking with Bush's executive orders. It seems that the only executive order Obama DOES plan to rescind is the Stem Cell research one. WHOA OBAMA, slow down there big guy !

Please see Memebag's post (#10).

The fact that no decision has been made is not the same as renouncing or embracing Bush's position.

It really isn't that difficult.

[west20th]

Still waiting for you to answer the question about how you feel Obama sticking with Bush's executive orders. It seems that the only executive order Obama DOES plan to rescind is the Stem Cell research one. WHOA OBAMA, slow down there big guy !

Who says he is sticking with Bush's exec orders? He will leave some and rescind some after consideration. You expect him to make all of these decisions in a week? You are really running out of coherent arguments. Kind of like this guy from Georgia:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...on/6105406.html

[Fringe]

Iran is Persian, not Arab. Plus, the funny thing is that when the Shah, a U.S. ally, was in power, Iran actively supported Israel. Once the mullahs gained power this stance was reversed.

Keep in mind that there are Persian vs. Arab and Shiite vs. Sunni divisions. These groups will never present a united front against the U.S. because they are constantly fighting each other. Al Qaeda lost with the Shiites when Al Qaeda in Iraq started targeting Shiites.

Call them whatever you want. 90% of Iranians are Muslim and all of them hate jews. I don't care if they are an "Ally" or not.

[TJones]

Another reason Obama won't rescind it, because he voted FOR the FISA bill, and both Patriot Acts !

[VicMan]

Lunatic: Being anti-PLO is one reason, but the ONLY reason?

1. The Shah was clearly a UK and US favorite, as the US overthrew Mossadegh in the 1950s - If you want I could pull up a news article about Western interference in Iran

2. The Iranians had been invaded by Arabs in past decades - AFAIK there is still hostility towards Arabs

3. Source for "all of them hate Jews?" - And what about people who dislike the State of Israel but do not hate Jews in particular (they might even support Jews who are against Israel, i.e. Hasidic groups in New York - If you have read The Chosen by Chaim Potok you will see the dynamic here)

4. The Shah was also very secular, I must add - The Islamic fundamentalists were in total opposition to him

I understand some Iranians did not like how the Shah supported Israel; I read Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis. Satrapi came from a fairly well off family and attended a secular French school until the revolution. Satrapi's dad said that both the Shah and Egypt "betrayed" the region's countries by making a pact with Israel (Page 43 in the English complete edition). Yet the family is friends with the Baba-Levys, a Jewish family who stayed in Iran after the Revolution (they were killed in the bombing during the Iran-Iraq war).

And, by the way, events like the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s and the bitter infighting in Iraq today means that you should care whether groups are allies or enemies or somewhere in between. If they fight each other, how are they going to effectively harm Israel? There is a saying "United We Stand, Divided We Fall" - there are so many divisions in the countries that have frigid relations with Israel.

As for Hezbollah, it didn't exist until around the 1980s (The Shah was gone by 1979). Wikipedia has a section describing how governments agree and disagree about which parts of Hezbollah are terrorist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Des...stance_movement - this section is heavily sourced, so you will find the sources if you want to see them - It's not unanimous like with Al Qaeda.

EDIT: Plus, regarding the Iran-Iraq War, Satrapi's Dad said that the war ended up becoming a ploy by the West to destroy the armies of both Iraq and Iran; Iran had the largest army in the Middle East and Iraq's actually presented a threat to Israel. See, this is why you should care about alliances. Both countries had chilly relations with Israel, but the Iran-Iraq War made them neutralize each other.

Call them whatever you want. 90% of Iranians are Muslim and all of them hate jews. I don't care if they are an "Ally" or not.

[Fringe]

Did not Ahmadinejad, the President of Iran say Israel must be wiped off the map? Did he not also describe the Holocaust as a myth? How do you become an ally with someone that makes those statements?

[VicMan]

Lunatic, about the Israel wiping off map thing...

* The New York Times states that what Ahmedinejad said is disputed: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinre.../11bronner.html

Then there's the Holocaust stuff. I have a book on Iran called The Ayatollah Begs to Differ by Hooman Majd (from the Texas Book Festival) - Somewhere (I forget what page) he talks about how a few very conservative members of the Iranian government had a fixation on Holocaust and denial; either Majd or someone else thinks of that as really strange since Iranians thought that the Holocaust had nothing to do with them. Also I think somewhere the book says that Iran took in Jews who were fleeing from the holocaust and the Iranian government had documents to prove it!

Majd talks about Ahmedinejad (Majd worked as Ahmedinejad's translator) and the Holocaust stuff here: http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6585810.html

"I don't think that he doesn't believe it happened. I think it's this obsession that he has with being seen as a Muslim leader standing up to Israel and Zionism. He's not a historian and his view is sophomoric—the first time he expressed it, he said it in a very Persian way. He said, “If it happened, why do Muslims have to pay the price?” In Farsi when you say “if,” it doesn't necessarily mean that you're questioning what happened; it's a rhetorical question. I said to one of his top aides that Ahmadinejad's biggest problem was that he said “if.” If he'd said, “It happened, but why do the Muslims have to pay the price?” it would have been much more difficult to criticize. I'm not defending him; his obsession with the Holocaust is crazy, anyway. Ahmadinejad hasn't mentioned the Holocaust for at least a year now, and I'm convinced—not that anybody would admit it—that the Supreme Leader told him, “Back off. If you want to talk about Israel and Zionism, go ahead, but leave the Holocaust out of it; you're embarrassing us.”"

Majd also said, about Ahmedinejad: " And I don't believe that he really believes a lot of the things he says."

Then remember that Iran is still suffering the aftereffects from the Iran-Iraq War in the 1980s; however there was a big baby boom since the revolution, so there are lots of people despite the fact that Iran suffered a lot of casualties in the war.

Did not Ahmadinejad, the President of Iran say Israel must be wiped off the map? Did he not also describe the Holocaust as a myth? How do you become an ally with someone that makes those statements?

[Fringe]

So in other words your saying we are not the only country over the last few years with a bone-head president that sticks his foot in his mouth?

I still would not trust them or any other predominantly Islamic country over there. I used to work with a woman from Pakistan (our ally?) who told me many horrors about her country. Mostly about the barbaric way they treat women but also how in schools and their religion they teach hatred towards Jews at a very young age and in some areas that hatred is applied to the USA.

[VicMan]

So in other words your saying we are not the only country over the last few years with a bone-head president that sticks his foot in his mouth?

I still would not trust them or any other predominantly Islamic country over there. I used to work with a woman from Pakistan (our ally?) who told me many horrors about her country. Mostly about the barbaric way they treat women but also how in schools and their religion they teach hatred towards Jews at a very young age and in some areas that hatred is applied to the USA.

That is likely the influence from Wahhabist Saudi Arabia - The Wahhabi element of Saudi Arabia is extremely conservative and is known to produce very inflammatory materials.

Likewise Iran is a follower of Twelver Shiism. I haven't heard of Iranian textbooks calling Jews monkeys...

Anyway, there was an American who wrote a book about his travels in Iran, Iraq, and North Korea. Scott Fisher, an American resident of South Korea and author of Axis of Evil World Tour, posted excerpts of his travels in Iran here: http://axisofeviltour.com/iran-main.htm

[HtownWxBoy]

We do care what others think. We might not want to admit it, but we do. Who wants to be hated or thought badly of?

We should care what people think of us. If people don't like us, they may not support us, and sometimes we need support just like other Nations do.

Did not Ahmadinejad, the President of Iran say Israel must be wiped off the map? Did he not also describe the Holocaust as a myth? How do you become an ally with someone that makes those statements?

Well, don't think of it has becoming HIS ally... think of it as becoming an ally of the Iranian people... most of whom do not think like their current President who is a nutcase. Sometimes you have to deal with nutcases like that in ways you may not want to in order to achieve the better good. He's a nut, but unfortunately he's the President of Iran and we may need to do more than just ignore him.

Call them whatever you want. 90% of Iranians are Muslim and all of them hate jews. I don't care if they are an "Ally" or not.

Fact: Hezbollah which is just as bad as the Taliban or Al Qaeda is based in Iran. The ONLY reason they supported Israel is becuase they were in war against the PLO.

link

Just taking a shot in the dark here, but I am guessing you are an avid watcher of Fox News. I could be wrong, but the whole "all muslims hate jews" made a light go off in my head.

[Fringe]

Just taking a shot in the dark here, but I am guessing you are an avid watcher of Fox News. I could be wrong, but the whole "all muslims hate jews" made a light go off in my head

Not all. Just 99% of the ones over there. My neighbor moved to Kuwait (before the war). He could not bring any Kenmore products or anything associated with Sears. Seems Mr. Roebuck was jewish and they don't allow ANYTHING associated with jews into their country. And these are our staunch allies. Sorry if the truth hurts but that's the way it is over there.

And no, I can't stand FOX news. Nor do I believe anything I here from ANY of the media.

[VicMan]

Not all. Just 99% of the ones over there. My neighbor moved to Kuwait (before the war). He could not bring any Kenmore products or anything associated with Sears. Seems Mr. Roebuck was jewish and they don't allow ANYTHING associated with jews into their country. And these are our staunch allies. Sorry if the truth hurts but that's the way it is over there.

And no, I can't stand FOX news. Nor do I believe anything I here from ANY of the media.

Before the 1990s Gulf War, or before the 2000s Iraq War? I'll have to see about the Kenmore stuff.

Speaking of Kuwait, Marjane Satrapi noticed that many Kuwaitis fled to Iran during the Gulf War. The Kuwaitis had nicer cars than the economically devastated Iranians. One day, a man drove up to Satrapi, who stood on the curb while drinking a soda. The man asked her how much she would pay if she would prostitute to him. She recalls throwing the soda into his face as a response. An uncle later told her that, in Kuwait as in many Arab countries, women had so few rights that one simply drinking a soda while on the street would be seen as a prostitute.

In the comic Satrapi is portrayed as yelling "____ you! Son of a delicate flower!" while throwing the soda at the Kuwaiti's face

Ahmedinejad has also been seen with anti-Israel Jews (i.e. Hasidic groups) supporting him; there's one picture of that in The Ayatollah Begs to Differ book.

[RedScare]

Not all. Just 99% of the ones over there. My neighbor moved to Kuwait (before the war). He could not bring any Kenmore products or anything associated with Sears. Seems Mr. Roebuck was jewish and they don't allow ANYTHING associated with jews into their country. And these are our staunch allies. Sorry if the truth hurts but that's the way it is over there.

And no, I can't stand FOX news. Nor do I believe anything I here from ANY of the media.

This is extremely debatable. Little is what it seems in the Middle East. And even less is what it is portrayed to be by the outgoing administration.