The Revitalization Of N. Montrose

[uhlaw09]

Just wanted to post this visualization of the developments proposed or under construction in North Montrose and immediately across the Bayou. This area is undergoing a dramatic change, and it will be fun to watch over the next few years.

Now, if only we could make it more pedestrian-friendly...

[mls1202]

What is the Sabine park that is being proposed?

[sowanome]

I think the area that will be the most pedestrian friendly in the immediate future will be between Allen P.way and W.gray, due to the walking proximity of River Oaks shopping center to Regent Sqaure... It'd also be nice to see how Whole foods blends into the area...

[uhlaw09]

What is the Sabine park that is being proposed?

That's representing a proposed pedestrian bridge. However, I have no idea where it would be located, nor do I know if it is a realistic possibility in the near future.

A poster somewhere on this site is in the know on the pedestrian bridge. I believe several proposals were considered, and I've heard that the design that is currently being considered is impressive. This is second-hand information from this site though.

I think it was discussed somewhere in the context of Memorial Heights--probably in the 25 story Studemont/Memorial thread.

I think the area that will be the most pedestrian friendly in the immediate future will be between Allen P.way and W.gray, due to the walking proximity of River Oaks shopping center to Regent Sqaure.

I agree. The backside of Regent Square will almost be adjacent to the Kroger in the River Oaks Shopping Center.

That whole area from the River Oaks Shopping Center to Regent Square will be very walkable. The other areas from W. Gray to Allen Pkwy will have a lot of the substance necessary to be a great pedestrian area, but could really use some infrastructure upgrades (crossing signals at cross-walks; improved sidewalks).

Edited November 8, 2008 by uhlaw09

[Subdude]

Cool map, thanks for that.

It will be interesting to see how West Dallas is transformed after all this is built. It seems like it could become a major retail strip.

[sidegate]

Cool map, thanks for that.

It will be interesting to see how West Dallas is transformed after all this is built. It seems like it could become a major retail strip.

Thanks for the map. The streets are very wide in some places which can be intimidating for a pedestrian carrying a few shopping bags I hope to see traffic islands like this start to emerge in the middle of roads at pedestrian crossings (from a London Public Transport website)

[musicman]

The streets are very wide in some places which can be intimidating for a pedestrian carrying a few shopping bags I hope to see traffic islands like this start to emerge in the middle of roads at pedestrian crossings

if you can't handle carrying a few bags while walking, you probably have a few more issues. which streets are you referencing?

[sidegate]

if you can't handle carrying a few bags while walking, you probably have a few more issues. which streets are you referencing?

Waugh north of West Gray. West Gray itself.

[RedScare]

Waugh north of West Gray. West Gray itself.

West Gray? What is pedestrian unfriendly about a commercial and retail thoroughfare with sidewalks on each side of the street?

[sidegate]

West Gray? What is pedestrian unfriendly about a commercial and retail thoroughfare with sidewalks on each side of the street?

I never said it was pedestrian unfriendly. It's the increased frequency of street crossings by pedestrians going from shop to shop as the hood becomes more walkable that need to be provided for - possibly by the type of crossing I showed. No traffic lights, so cars aren't stopped unnecessarily when there are no pedestrians, but cars give way when there's someone on them, and a small island in the center lets pedestrians pause and evaluate traffic coming from the other direction. They are frequently seen in the UK and Ireland, even on smaller streets.

[RedScare]

I never said it was pedestrian unfriendly. It's the increased frequency of street crossings by pedestrians going from shop to shop as the hood becomes more walkable that need to be provided for - possibly by the type of crossing I showed. No traffic lights, so cars aren't stopped unnecessarily when there are no pedestrians, but cars give way when there's someone on them, and a small island in the center lets pedestrians pause and evaluate traffic coming from the other direction. They are frequently seen in the UK and Ireland, even on smaller streets.

You think maybe we could convince METRO to put in some "Mind the gap" signs as well?

[musicman]

I never said it was pedestrian unfriendly. It's the increased frequency of street crossings by pedestrians going from shop to shop as the hood becomes more walkable that need to be provided for - possibly by the type of crossing I showed. No traffic lights, so cars aren't stopped unnecessarily when there are no pedestrians, but cars give way when there's someone on them, and a small island in the center lets pedestrians pause and evaluate traffic coming from the other direction. They are frequently seen in the UK and Ireland, even on smaller streets.

if pedestrians are having difficult crossing smaller streets, they should call METROlift. they'd be able to get door to door service.

[sidegate]

evidently we see things differently. I don't think for a moment anything like this will happen but thinking out loud is free.

[N Judah]

He's just talking about a striped crossing in the middle of the street (ie halfway up the block). They have them everywhere. In Houston it will probably have to be like the ones pictured in the UK, with lights and the whole nine yards, since drivers here don't stop for anything.

Edited November 8, 2008 by N Judah

[Subdude]

if pedestrians are having difficult crossing smaller streets, they should call METROlift. they'd be able to get door to door service.

I don't think you understand what he's saying. It's about creating a more pedestrian-friendly street environment to complement a shopping district. The thing is that Houston is engineered around the movement of cars, not people.

[dbigtex56]

Another major improvement for pedestrians in this general area would be to provide sidewalks on Helner St, from Bagby to Buffalo Bayou, including a pedestrian bridge over Allen Parkway. It would simplify access for a large number of Midtown residents.

I've walked this route, and it's a great shortcut. Under current conditions, however, to do so is neither safe nor legal.

[musicman]

I don't think you understand what he's saying. It's about creating a more pedestrian-friendly street environment to complement a shopping district. The thing is that Houston is engineered around the movement of cars, not people.

i understand however earlier in the yr he was making a similar proposal with the addition of handrails but he didn't under why the rails were used in the example he used and how they provided no advantage. has suggested replaced suspended lights with those mounted on an arm but didn't understand why they were suspended.

when you're at the new whole foods, crossing waugh should be fairly easy with crossings at both dallas and damico already. unless you need a breakfast jack in a hurry there's no need for additional crossings there.

Edited November 9, 2008 by musicman

[musicman]

I've walked this route, and it's a great shortcut. Under current conditions, however, to do so is neither safe nor legal.

i'll bet ultimately the city would decide that the current pedestrian bridge is "adequate" to serve helner too

Edited November 9, 2008 by musicman

[uhlaw09]

when you're at the new whole foods, crossing waugh should be fairly easy with crossings at both dallas and damico already. unless you need a breakfast jack in a hurry there's no need for additional crossings there.

I agree.

However, I'm not sure there are currently crosswalk signs at either of these intersections. I know there aren't any at W. Dallas and Montrose. It just seems pretty clear that little thought has been given to pedestrians in these areas as of yet. There may not have been much of a need for that in the past, but there very likely will be over the next few years.

[musicman]

However, I'm not sure there are currently crosswalk signs at either of these intersections. I know there aren't any at W. Dallas and Montrose. It just seems pretty clear that little thought has been given to pedestrians in these areas as of yet.

i guess the sidewalks and crosswalks that are there now don't count. if signage is your only problem, then IMO then not much work to do there.

[sidegate]

i understand however earlier in the yr he was making a similar proposal with the addition of handrails but he didn't under why the rails were used in the example he used and how they provided no advantage. has suggested replaced suspended lights with those mounted on an arm but didn't understand why they were suspended.

when you're at the new whole foods, crossing waugh should be fairly easy with crossings at both dallas and damico already. unless you need a breakfast jack in a hurry there's no need for additional crossings there.

OK that's going back a bit and you are misrepresenting me somewhat, but handrails are useful for...anyone who needs them - elderly, infirm, anyone with kids, to keep them from running off the island - this area has a sizeable proportion of elderly people and people with young families. Add to that the psychological effect of something metal between the pedestrians and the cars, and I can see many benefits of handrails. As for suspended lights suspended on wiring, I hate them, but they seem to work, so when in Rome I guess. They do okay without them in the Galleria area. Admittedly those are a particularly shi-shi solution, given that it is the Galleria area, but I can see the $$$ problem with rolling out similar solutions across the city, even if designed more modestly.

[musicman]

OK that's going back a bit and you are misrepresenting me somewhat, but handrails are useful for...anyone who needs them - elderly, infirm, anyone with kids, to keep them from running off the island - this area has a sizeable proportion of elderly people and people with young families. Add to that the psychological effect of something metal between the pedestrians and the cars, and I can see many benefits of handrails.

as i recall, the rails were used to force people to cross an intersection at a designated spot where traffic can be controlled easily, not to help people stay upright.

[sidegate]

as i recall, the rails were used to force people to cross an intersection at a designated spot where traffic can be controlled easily, not to help people stay upright.

they would certainly have that use as well.

[uhlaw09]

i guess the sidewalks and crosswalks that are there now don't count. if signage is your only problem, then IMO then not much work to do there.

You're right--I went went by there today, and there are crosswalk signs at D'Amico/Waugh at least. Not sure about Waugh/W. Dallas. I know there aren't any at Montrose/W. Dallas.

And no, signage isn't nearly the only problem with trying to walk around in areas like North Montrose. Frankly, I couldn't care less if there are signs telling me when to walk or not.

I only mention it as a representation of the general apathy Houston currently has toward pedestrian infrastructure. The city's population density is so low that the apathy is fine in the vast majority of areas. In other areas, however, the pedestrian infrastructure will need some improvement over the next few years--just like vehicular infrastructure needs improvement when population growth occurs.

[capnmcbarnacle]

I think the spot in great need of a pedestrian bridge is...Dunlavy crossing over Allen Parkway. I always see people crossing from the Royalton, etc., in the middle of the island waiting to get splatted. The narrow sidewalks along the Waugh and Montrose bridges blow. A pedestrian bridge giving easy access from Regent Square, Royalton, etc. to the Bayou and the park would be great. As it is, the only decent way across is to walk to Waugh which, while not the end of the world, sucks. There is a bridge across Allen Pkwy at the old Allen Parkway Village -- I think one further up where lots of people now live would be great.

[tanith27]

I think a bridge was discussed along the old train tracks that are between the new tower on Studemont/Memorial and the neighboring AMLI apartments (ex The Quarters). That would make some sense as it would tie in a bike path to the one currently being built in the Heights and provide a great north/south route to access Buffalo Bayou. However, I noticed the new tower has taken up much of that ex-railroad real estate with construction so I'm not sure if they bought that right-of-way or are just using it as storage.

[sowanome]

I think the spot in great need of a pedestrian bridge is...Dunlavy crossing over Allen Parkway. A pedestrian bridge giving easy access from Regent Square, Royalton, etc. to the Bayou and the park would be great.

As someone who lived in that area and constantly walked between The Regent Square area and Spotts and/or Cleveland Park, I totally agree....crossing both A. Parkway and walking over the bayou on Waugh, sometimes feels like death itself...

I wonder what it'd take to get a pedestrian bridge from Dunlavy crossing over Allen Parkway...besides $$$$$$$

[sidegate]

The narrow sidewalks along the Waugh and Montrose bridges blow.

Do they ever. Two people walking in opposite directions literally have to brush past each other. And if you are on a bicycle on the sidewalk on the Waugh bridge (as is often the case given the speed cars go at on the roadway) the top of the railing is below your center of gravity. Scares the crap out of me when I cross on a bicycle.

There's a ton of green space in that area that has so much potential but it's just cut off from the rest of the city by high speed automotive traffic. I hope it can be imaginatively worked into the new wave of development in the area.

[Zippy]

Do they ever. Two people walking in opposite directions literally have to brush past each other. And if you are on a bicycle on the sidewalk on the Waugh bridge (as is often the case given the speed cars go at on the roadway) the top of the railing is below your center of gravity. Scares the crap out of me when I cross on a bicycle.

There's a ton of green space in that area that has so much potential but it's just cut off from the rest of the city by high speed automotive traffic. I hope it can be imaginatively worked into the new wave of development in the area.

Yeah.. getting from the Heights to anywhere south to allen parkway/downtown via bike is quite frightening.. Waugh is supposed to have a bike path.. but it seems to disappear on the bridge over Memorial.. And I agree, the bridge "sidewalk" would take just one moment of inbalance before plunging to certain death and being run over multiple times.. It always freaks me out.. Or take your chances on the street.. but you won't get that "plunging to your death" feeling before you get run over multiple times..

It's a wonder I'm still alive..

[rsb320]

Second Hand Knowledge - The design of the bridge has been selected. I think it was a German team that won. I'm not sure of the exact location of the bridge, but I would bet that it's near Montrose. This is about halfway between DT & RO. Think of the Southwest Freeway, where Montrose was described as the "Flagship Bridge". Whatever.

The way the design was described to me is that it appears as a spiral. Obviously, you can't ride a bike on a spiral. Use your imagination.