TheNiche Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I think you're missing something. Do everyone need bigger? Do you get a 4000 sf home just because you can afford it? This year has taught me that many who get homes 2800 sf and above don't need it, they can't even afford it. Just over a year ago I realized that my 550-square-foot condominium was inefficient. I looked at the places where I actually spent time. And then I looked at the pathways that connected the activity nodes. There were too many and too lengthy pathways relative to the nodes. My first instinct was to look at options along the lines of containerized living. And the designs I was brainstorming were somewhat similar to this one, which has a first floor office, a second-floor dining room, a third-floor living room, and a fourth-floor spa with sweeping views (minus the transparency or the gay color scheme): Personally, I was more inclined to go with this kind of setup but with the first level as a tandem garage, a kitchen and living room on the second floor, two flex/office rooms on the third floor, and a bedroom on the top floor, with a hot tub on a rooftop deck. In all, it would be 960 square feet of air conditioned living area but on a standard 5,000-square-foot inner-loop lot, and I would only necessarily have to pave 10% of the land area, either leaving room for a massive 4,500-square-foot lawn and urban garden or allowing me to dramatically downsize on the purchase of land. Houston's urban core does have a few scattered 2,500-square-foot lots, after all, and they're usually priced affordably. It actually would've resulted in up-sizing my living area; but truth be told, if I were going to build something, this would be the kind of home that makes sense. I'm a young guy, after all, and housing needs within my demographic are prone to change; and I certainly wouldn't want to own a home that I wasn't planning on staying in for four to six years at the very least because otherwise the soft costs would eat away at my investment. What if I were to take a wife? Or a kid? That's the kind of occurance that is very plausible over that sort of time horizon. So this was the sort of home that would be flexible enough to meet my needs (or even those of up to two-and-a-half people), while also being highly efficient and uber cool at a reasonable price compared to townhomes. At a certain point it occured to me that I might just look into outfitting a single 320-square-foot container as a home and putting it on concrete cinder blocks. I figured that the cost would be sufficiently low that I could just sell my condo and pay straight cash for the whole setup. Not having a mortgage was very appealing, and if I did have to up-size, the single-container-home would make a good guest house or workshop. ...and then my grandparents offered to instead sell me their old travel trailer for only $2k. INSTANT DEAL-KILLER. I realized that the cool factor on single-unit container living wasn't nearly enough to justify the per-square-foot investment on something that tiny and basic. If I did it (and I could have done it, both with respect to money and livability) I'd only end up regretting the waste of all that money for the sake of coolness alone...which now that I was comparing it to trailers was pretty well deflated anyway. But I wasn't done downsizing yet. I like water. I like boats. I like the concept of a houseboat. And I don't like traditional houseboats or trawlers converted to houseboats. Specifically, I dislike large recreational motorboats. They cost too much to take anywhere not in the Galveston Bay area, and I don't like feeling encumbered. A sailboat has a very simple floor plan with an efficient single-corridor pathway connecting a dense system of activity nodes...and it goes places...and I could evade property taxes...and float...and recreate...and possibly justify keeping it even if my housing needs changed...and satisfy my ego. A lot has happened since I set my heart on that, not one frickin' iota of which has supported my decision to become a liveaboard (which was probably for the better considering Edouard & Ike). But that's still the working hypothesis as to where I'm trying to go in the next year. What I've come to realize through the past couple of years is that 1) I do value space, but I especially value efficiency; 2) I'd rather pay a tremendous premium for quality than for quantity; 3) like Red, I'd be very satisfied to live in under 1,000 square feet, even up to a two-and-a-half-person household, but unlike Red, I'd be terribly unsatisfied living in a run-of-the-mill bungalow of that size; and 4) in the very long term, if my accumulated wealth is substantial enough, I will demand quality before quantity, but I will ultimately demand more quantity, and 5) I don't care if any of this qualifies as excessive/wasteful consumerism because I readily acknowledge that material things can and do make me a happier person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 My only issue, yeah it's my own issue and I welcome any criticism, is that why are so many homes built with rooms that are unusable.this is a different issue altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan the Man Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 He simply urged us to monitor the space we actually needed and stick fairly close to that.If you haven't already, I'd recommend reading "The Not So Big House" by Susan Susanka. Susanka's practice focuses on the design of smaller homes that are specifically catered to her clients' interests. In her book, she makes the argument that smaller homes that specifically respond to the living patterns of their occupants offer a higher quality of life than larger houses that are based on outdated residential prototypes or the desire to impress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I didn't think texas911 was saying anyone should be complimented for wanting a bigger house, just that there isn't anything wrong with that desire. Conversely, there is nothing wrong with wanting a smaller house, nor is that desire worthy of praise.I agree completely. If someone wants a bigger house and they have the money for it, then have at it. It's not a matter of personal virtue. Likewise, when I posted pictures of bloated furniture and cars, the point was about fashion in design, not that one style is inherently better. It may not be to my personal taste, but as I've said before I think we are wired somehow with the desire to get big things to impress the neighbors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I agree completely. If someone wants a bigger house and they have the money for it, then have at it. It's not a matter of personal virtue. Likewise, when I posted pictures of bloated furniture and cars, the point was about fashion in design, not that one style is inherently better. It may not be to my personal taste, but as I've said before I think we are wired somehow with the desire to get big things to impress the neighbors.And sometimes, we just want bigger things regardless of the neighbors. I've never picked a residence (or a car, or a girl, or a haircut) based on who it would impress. I realize I'm atypical, though.Now I can't tell if I'm speaking for myself or making this all about me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas911 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Redscare's vision of efficient living! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cla Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 The concept of the American Dream is completely lost if we start dictating what type of material possessions are allowed. The great thing about the American Dream is that we have the freedom to prosper regardless of social status, but rather by our hard work. And how we choose to spend our hard-earned money should be no one's concern. No one should be made to feel guilty for having what they have worked for. We all have the right to live the way we want, whether it be frugally or extravagantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 The concept of the American Dream is completely lost if we start dictating what type of material possessions are allowed. The great thing about the American Dream is that we have the freedom to prosper regardless of social status, but rather by our hard work. And how we choose to spend our hard-earned money should be no one's concern. No one should be made to feel guilty for having what they have worked for. We all have the right to live the way we want, whether it be frugally or extravagantly. Point taken, but in all fairness, nobody's talking about dictating how you spend your money. As I said, I understand that people like to show off wealth in various ways, but by the same token part of the price they pay is that others may find their choices vulgar or inappropriate. Vulgar and inappropriate car: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas911 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Just as some people find living in a 1200SF house with kids vulgar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 Just as some people find living in a 1200SF house with kids vulgar. Ha, ....One kid or Kids and it also depends on the city...1200 sq.ft in Manhattan for a family of 3 maybe 4 is pretty nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cla Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 And I see a lot of "vulgar or inappropriate" people in public, but :sigh: I would be labeled "intolerant" if I voiced my displeasure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I don't doubt that many would find living in my house vulgar, or at a minimum, "cramped". And I am quite sure that Tx911 enjoys walking through his 4,000 feet of nirvana with a sense of contentment. That is pretty much the point. We are both free to enjoy what we think is enjoyable. I opined on 911's comment that everyone wants more space, not that more space is good or evil. So, while 911 is stretching out in his 4000 feet of luxury, I am admiring my relatively tiny mortgage and utility bills. While 911 is comforted by his uncramped living quarters and toney address, I am comforted by the fact that, if I were laid off today, I could live in my bungalow on a waiter's wages. It is all about what makes each of us happy. And to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Judah Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 That's just how our culture works. We expand until we can't. Then, and only then, do we consider there to be an "incentive" to try to improve upon what we already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 I am comforted by the fact that, if I were laid off today, I could live in my bungalow on a waiter's wages.I've got to say that was the best quote I've heard in a while...Truly the best I've heard in a while (To each his own), "A Waiter's Wage" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas911 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Just for the record, I live in a 1937 2100SF bungalow in West U, not a 4000SF house. I don't have a tiny mortgage or a big one, its paid off and as well, my electricity bill is huge because, its an old house. My house's worth is equivalent to a 4000SF house in the burbs though, so I guess I have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Just for the record, I live in a 1937 2100SF bungalow in West U, not a 4000SF house. I don't have a tiny mortgage or a big one, its paid off and as well, my electricity bill is huge because, its an old house. My house's worth is equivalent to a 4000SF house in the burbs though, so I guess I have that. My apologies for attributing a 4000 foot home to you. Your post #46 seemed to suggest you lived in one, whereas you were actually speaking rhetorically. My point remains the same, though. Whatever makes you happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedwigTramp Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 This is an interesting thread.I am surprised no has brought up the ratio of lot value / to house price The dirt in West-U, Bellaire, Memorial, etc is VERY expensive. These locations EARNED their high prices. Schools & services are excellent. And folks with $$$$ want to live there. A builder that buys a $300k teardown in Bellaire is NOT going to build a 2000 sqft home. A builder that buys a $800k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 This is an interesting thread.I am surprised no has brought up the ratio of lot value / to house price Buyers who want to live in these areas are forced to buy more house than they "Need" because of the lot/house ratio. Welcome to capitalism:I agree that the builders are also pushing this phenom, but is there something wrong with being the smallest home on the block (even if others view it as a possible teardown?). What's been your experience within your n.hood...Is everyone following the "The Bigger, The Better Theme" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipper Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Buyers who want to live in these areas are forced to buy more house than they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I wouldn't say anyone is forced to buy anything. If they don't want to buy more house than they "need", they can buy an older house or build a custom. The builders will always have to build a house that sells for 3 to 4 times the price of the dirt. You try convincing a home/land owner to sell their lot for less than their neighbor's sold their lot for so you don't have to build such a big, expensive house. flipperAnd for any household concerned about resale, even a small custom home on an expensive lot may ultimately be harder to re-sell at such a price as that the investment is recoverable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedwigTramp Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I agree that the builders are also pushing this phenom, but is there something wrong with being the smallest home on the block (even if others view it as a possible tear-down?). What's been your experience within your n.hood...Is everyone following the "The Bigger, The Better Theme"My neighborhood (Hedwig Village) looks nothing like it did when I moved in 2001. Nearly all the original 50s ranch houses on large lots have been torn down and replaced with 6000+ sf monsters. I can think of only 1 sale where they did not tear down the home (3800 sf), but the owners added about 1/3 more square footage, added 2 more baths, and totally gutted the rest.There is currently a new house on my street for sale at $2.4 mil. Two years ago a nice 60's 2 story 3000 sf brick home stood on the lot. I came home one day and it was in a dumpster. No for sale sign was ever posted.Same thing happened to another one 2 houses down. It was a 3200 sf remodeled in the late 80s. Our Mayor used to live there. She passed away and within 3 months the house was in a dumpster. The lot is still vacant without a for sale sign. None of these transactions went through MLS, so I can't find what they sold for.Another "house" is being built about a block away on Lou-al that is just under 13,000 sft with 11 baths (per HCAD). I went inside while it was under under construction and it is not just a bunch of sheet rock to add footage. The main entry area is about the size of my house and it must have 30 foot ceilings. Ridiculous.I chose to remodel my 2900 sft house and I regret it. I put way too much money into the remodel, and I know all that work and effort will wind up in a dumpster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I chose to remodel my 2900 sft house and I regret it. I put way too much money into the remodel, and I know all that work and effort will wind up in a dumpster.My parents *kind of* feel the same way about their home in Bellaire. My mom is retiring soon, they will be moving out of state, and the house will be flattened. They have lived there almost twenty years, though, so it was not all for waste. I say if you love your home and plan to stay, don't regret the remodeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 My parents *kind of* feel the same way about their home in Bellaire. My mom is retiring soon, they will be moving out of state, and the house will be flattened. They have lived there almost twenty years, though, so it was not all for waste. I say if you love your home and plan to stay, don't regret the remodeling.Absolutely. All of this thread really relates to using the home as an investment. I realize that few people buy homes as homes anymore, but I also realize that the housing crisis was spurred by using homes as investments. If you plan to stay in your home for awhile, learn to let go of the resale demons in your head, and build or remodel to suit your tastes. Don't worry so much about what others want to eventually do to your home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Absolutely. All of this thread really relates to using the home as an investment. I realize that few people buy homes as homes anymore, but I also realize that the housing crisis was spurred by using homes as investments. If you plan to stay in your home for awhile, learn to let go of the resale demons in your head, and build or remodel to suit your tastes. Don't worry so much about what others want to eventually do to your home.But that's just the thing, Red, is that a home is a home whether it is bought or rented. The rent vs. buy analysis is an investment decision. It's about which is the better financial decision. And the housing crisis wasn't spurred by people using homes as investments; it was spurred by people making bad assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedwigTramp Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Absolutely. All of this thread really relates to using the home as an investment. I realize that few people buy homes as homes anymore, but I also realize that the housing crisis was spurred by using homes as investments. If you plan to stay in your home for awhile, learn to let go of the resale demons in your head, and build or remodel to suit your tastes. Don't worry so much about what others want to eventually do to your home.Your comments are right-on. I have enjoyed my home immensely, and the appreciation has been WAY beyond expectations.But I want to retire in couple of years, and there is a real possibility I simply can't afford to live here after I retire. Because of the skyrocketing appraised market value, my taxes will go up 15 % (max?) a year until I am 65 (ten years). Assuming that the house is paid off, my tax bill will be 2 times what my mortgage is/was. And yes, I fight my tax appraisal every year. I also tried one of the professional tax reduction firms that guarantee results, and they would up giving me a $100 credit to any Papas restaurant.If I have to sell and want to get the maximum value for the property, I need to bite the bullet and rebuild before I sell. So it will probably be ME who hires the bulldozer (to build a beautiful home I will never live in). That is why I am frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 it was spurred by people making bad assumptions.May we speak the word "Speculation"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Your comments are right-on. I have enjoyed my home immensely, and the appreciation has been WAY beyond expectations.But I want to retire in couple of years, and there is a real possibility I simply can't afford to live here after I retire. Because of the skyrocketing appraised market value, my taxes will go up 15 % (max?) a year until I am 65 (ten years). Assuming that the house is paid off, my tax bill will be 2 times what my mortgage is/was. And yes, I fight my tax appraisal every year. I also tried one of the professional tax reduction firms that guarantee results, and they would up giving me a $100 credit to any Papas restaurant.If I have to sell and want to get the maximum value for the property, I need to bite the bullet and rebuild before I sell. So it will probably be ME who hires the bulldozer (to build a beautiful home I will never live in). That is why I am frustrated.Without going into your financial situation, it is probably not as dire as you think. The maximum "appraised value" increase is 10% per year. Of course, taxes have numerous reductions built in, so the actual increase in taxes may not be 10%. Additionally, Harris County is very generous with the over 65 homeowner. My parents do not live in as nice a neighborhood as you, but the exemptions are so genrous that their 2007 tax bill was $166. Total.Here is an article listing some of the over 65 exemptions in Houston.http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/busine...man/219109.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipper Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Your comments are right-on. I have enjoyed my home immensely, and the appreciation has been WAY beyond expectations.But I want to retire in couple of years, and there is a real possibility I simply can't afford to live here after I retire. Because of the skyrocketing appraised market value, my taxes will go up 15 % (max?) a year until I am 65 (ten years). Assuming that the house is paid off, my tax bill will be 2 times what my mortgage is/was. And yes, I fight my tax appraisal every year. I also tried one of the professional tax reduction firms that guarantee results, and they would up giving me a $100 credit to any Papas restaurant.If I have to sell and want to get the maximum value for the property, I need to bite the bullet and rebuild before I sell. So it will probably be ME who hires the bulldozer (to build a beautiful home I will never live in). That is why I am frustrated.You don't think it's a little funny that you are complaining that the tax appraised value is so high, yet you want to sell for "maximum value"? Would you be happy if your assessed value was 1/2 what it is, but so was what you could sell it for?flipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Because of the skyrocketing appraised market value, my taxes will go up 15 % (max?) a year until I am 65 (ten years).I wouldn't worry about that. The market value will probably evaporate soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedwigTramp Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 RedScare:Without going into your financial situation, it is probably not as dire as you think. The maximum "appraised value" increase is 10% per year. Of course, taxes have numerous reductions built in, so the actual increase in taxes may not be 10%. Additionally, Harris County is very generous with the over 65 homeowner. My parents do not live in as nice a neighborhood as you, but the exemptions are so generous that their 2007 tax bill was $166. TotalThanks for the link. Last year I bought an investment property in the near East from an estate and my portion of the 2007 taxes at closing was $12. Unfortunately, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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