This Is The Type Of Development Houston Needs!

[houstonsemipro]

Hey Citykid. If you like Atlanta so much with all those pictures you're posting, do us a favor and go live there. This is Houston, not Atlanta. Houston does things different here.

And you said "That's why people look at houston in discust." Please, kid.

[kzseattle]

Velvetj hit the nail on the head of what I was thinking, and I cannot stress enough how important it is to take what he posted into consideration.  The sad thing is, on this forum, the people that want the best for this city are usually criticized, especially LTAWACS.  Have you noticed that he gives positive feedback or interest on developments that show smart urban growth, and it is not really preference, because this is a city, not a suburb how some people want it.  People may think his post are full of negative criticism, but he is actually critiquing the city,  while most of the other people have fell into the normal patterns of how Houston is built with no zoning laws, excitement over freeways rather than rapid transit, sprawly developments, and still want a car oriented city.  Well there is nothing unique about that, and the city will not have the spotlight that its citizens want if this continues to happen.

and tw2ntyse7en, houston is nothing like any part of new york.  even the suburbs of nyc are more urban than houston.  time to get out a little bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a difference between fair and insightful critique and constant negativity whereas the latter doesn

[The Great Hizzy!]

A word from the Voice of Reason

The simple question is, how urban do you want Houston to be? And by "you", I mean the populace in general. How dense do you want your communities? How clustered do you want your dwellings? Do you still want these communities to have lawns? Do you still want retail centers to leave some room for automobiles while making them more accessible to the pedestrian?

Can we build an urban core without alienating and condemning those who, brace yourself, prefer to live in a more suburban environement (and their numbers are immense so it's a serious question)?

Personally, my bigger concern is that we create communities that are clean, prosperous and balanced with both residents and retail. That's not entirely the case in Houston (or many other cities), be they urban neighborhoods, quasi-urban or suburban.

I'm much more concerned, for example, that the isolated and seemingly condemn status of a Settegast or Acres Homes is addressed more than I am whether or not our CVSes in Midtown hug the sidewalks. Do I recognize the importance of having the latter in terms of creating a satisfactory urban climate for our more urban-minded residents? Absolutely. But density and urbanity alone isn't going to make for a prosperous, well-balanced city. Don't believe me, just take a look at Philadelphia or Baltimore. Hell, look at New Orleans.

Even with its collection of urban projects, cities like Houston, Atlanta, Dallas and Charlotte are incredibly spacious (read: undense) overall. While these projects hat are being designed and constructed appeal to a certain segment of the population, the overwhelming majority of the population still seems to prefer a more tradition, even suburban climate. They just want their schools to be better, the roads to be paved and their parks cleaner.

Urbanity for sure, but urbanity on Houston's terms, and hopefully with the population at large in mind.

[texasboy]

kzseattle, i agree that there should me a good mix, but a lot of houston is already suburban enough that it is a kodak moment when you find urban developments around the city. I would not look to cities like Philly in New Orleans as to what urbanity can do for a city, but cities like Seattle, Portland, and even San Diego are perfect examples of what urban infrastructure can do for a city. Again, I am not trying to make Houston as another city, but urbanism is one thing that makes cities unique and Houston is just not there yet.

[N Judah]

Some of those Atlanta pictures are pretty decent. That kind of development wouldn't be so bad maybe along the soon-to-be-built northern extension of our light rail. I don't know why they have so few trees, though. It kind of looks pretty barren. And the very last picture is downright hideous, in my opinion.

The funny thing about the whole suburban sprawl v. semi-dense urban-ness is that most people, given the choice, choose neither -- they want something inbetween, called a "garden city." I read about this in the Feb. (I think) issue of Harvard Design Magazine (or whatever it's called -- they have it at the Borders on Alabama). A bunch of people were shown pictures of different scenarios -- a suburban style shopping center, Paris, some nice part of D.C., and a few others -- and when people were asked which picture represented the area they would most like to live in, more people chose the "garden city" (a picture of some German town called Margarethoven or something) than any others.

I'm just pointing out that a lot of people on this board seem to think that there's suburban sprawl, and then suddenly New York City. There is a third way, and it's actually what most people prefer, given the choice. So maybe that's what Houston could be. I mean, it's definitely possible.

[DJ V Lawrence]

kzseattle, i agree that there should me a good mix, but a lot of houston is already suburban enough that it is a kodak moment when you find urban developments around the city.  I would not look to cities like Philly in New Orleans as to what urbanity can do for a city, but cities like Seattle, Portland, and even San Diego are perfect examples of what urban infrastructure can do for a city.  Again, I am not trying to make Houston as another city, but urbanism is one thing that makes cities unique and Houston is just not there yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yo, I don't get it. Urban-style living is currently being developed as we speak downtown, Midtown, Memorial City, and Town & Country. What other neighborhoods would you want to see urban-style development built in Houston?

[kzseattle]

kzseattle, i agree that there should me a good mix, but a lot of houston is already suburban enough that it is a kodak moment when you find urban developments around the city.  I would not look to cities like Philly in New Orleans as to what urbanity can do for a city, but cities like Seattle, Portland, and even San Diego are perfect examples of what urban infrastructure can do for a city.  Again, I am not trying to make Houston as another city, but urbanism is one thing that makes cities unique and Houston is just not there yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that

[kjb434]

I don't see what is so bad about multiple downtowns. If you look at metropolises like New York and Los Angeles, they have multiple commercial office centers. Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing, and Shang Hai all have multiple commercial centers. The competition is good for business so they can get a lower rent on office space. It may make downtown have to lower some rent prices to compete. Then some business could relocated there. Very few businesses will voluntarily pay more for rent just for a location.

[skwatra]

i don't think it's fair to compare the multiple downtowns of cities like ny and tokyo (and probably most of the others kjb mentioned) to houston. their commercial office centers are connected in much better ways then ours.

and our "downtowns" are not even complete (with enough corportate, retail, entertainment, residential, sports all in one).

[texasboy]

i don't think it's fair to compare the multiple downtowns of cities like ny and tokyo (and probably most of the others kjb mentioned) to houston. their commercial office centers are connected in much better ways then ours.

and our "downtowns" are not even complete (with enough corportate, retail, entertainment, residential, sports all in one).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thank you. now think of a central business district with all of the business districts in one, and get rid of some of the suburban qualities of uptown. houston would have one hell of a cbd, but the edge cities such as uptown, tmc, greenway, etc kill the potential that downtown really has.

[kzseattle]

I don't see what is so bad about multiple downtowns.  If you look at metropolises like New York and Los Angeles, they have multiple commercial office centers.  Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing, and Shang Hai all have multiple commercial centers.  The competition is good for business so they can get a lower rent on office space.  It may make downtown have to lower some rent prices to compete.  Then some business could relocated there.  Very few businesses will voluntarily pay more for rent just for a location.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn

[citykid09]

I would not like it if everything uptown was downtown. I like that you can go to another area like uptown. But I would like to see Los Angeles type denesity in Houston, that will work.

[skwatra]

^i don't think anyone is saying that.

i just think downtown should have more then what it has. so people (no matter where they live) have everything they need for day to day things, and always have the choice to easily get to uptown/midtown/downtown and everything between if they want.

i for one work in clear lake, so it makes sense for me to live there. if i (or anyone i know my age) worked downtown there's no way we wouldn't live there. i understand all the commuters that have families and live in the burbs.

where are all the college grads? everyone i know lives and works in a suburb, or is a student and lives in the rice/med center area. we all end up driving downtown to go out on the weekends, then have to make that grueling trip home at 2am.

sorry i changed topics there a bit...

[DJ V Lawrence]

^i don't think anyone is saying that.

i just think downtown should have more then what it has. so people (no matter where they live) have everything they need for day to day things, and always have the choice to easily get to uptown/midtown/downtown and everything between if they want.

i for one work in clear lake, so it makes sense for me to live there. if i (or anyone i know my age) worked downtown there's no way we wouldn't live there. i understand all the commuters that have families and live in the burbs.

where are all the college grads? everyone i know lives and works in a suburb, or is a student and lives in the rice/med center area. we all end up driving downtown to go out on the weekends, then have to make that grueling trip home at 2am.

sorry i changed topics there a bit...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No dude, I agree with you 100%. The multiple business areas and complexes we have (uptown, greenway, TMC, etc.) have seriously revamped and defined the areas surrounding it. Imagine if Uptown's office buildings, Galleria, and Williams Tower were downtown. What major attraction would be uptown? If The Medical Center was located downtown, why would the Museum district and Hermann Park want to be located where it is if not as many people would be passing through?

Also, why would ANYONE want to live in the suburbs if everything we had was in a CBD? Remember how large size wise Houston is. What would attract people to other parts of the city other than downtown, and how would land value for the rest of the city increase? The rich would get richer downtown, and the middle class would have a more difficult way of life do to the lack of privilage that is proximity.

Once again, someone tell me why downtown, Midtown, Memorial City, and Town & Country's development isn't good enough, and where else in town you'd like to see become urbanized to benefit the city.

[citykid09]

I like the Memorial city and town and country developments. I just wish one was going up in Uptown/Galleria. Also don't forget there is one of these type centers going up near Westchase also.

[UrbaNerd]

There IS one going up in Uptown/Galleria. The upcoming Riva Place/Pavillion development will be like that...

[DJ V Lawrence]

There IS one going up in Uptown/Galleria.  The upcoming Riva Place/Pavillion development will be like that...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right! I almost forgot about the Riva Place development! The renderings look hot, too!

That's for da response, Citykid :-) Yo, I wasn't aware of the Westchase development. Do they have any renderings or pics on it?

[DJ V Lawrence]

Imagine if the other neighborhoods that should have long ago incorporated, like: Kingwood, Clearlake, Briar Forest, Spring Branch (aka "Long Point"), Memorial City, Sharpstown, Oak Forest, & Alief. Would whats left of the new "City of Houston" even compare anymore with a Dallas or San Antonio, or would we now be struggling to compete with Austin?

On a contrasting note, to the post that said that most of these business districts don't have all the ammenties to be their own incorporated city, I would disagree. I think Greenspoint, Uptown, Westchase, and TMC could each easily be their own city. They have all the ammenities needed to be an edge city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"I believe him yo. I don't know why, but I do...."

---Scarface, "Half Baked"

[citykid09]

You're right! I almost forgot about the Riva Place development! The renderings look hot, too!

That's for da response, Citykid :-) Yo, I wasn't aware of the Westchase development. Do they have any renderings or pics on it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here is a link: http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...wtopic=1556&hl=

[Gary]

City Kid, With the exception of the Kroger picture I have yet to see you post one pic that is as impressive as you make it out to be. I could post (but won't) wonderful urban stores, apartments, condo's, streets, etc, etc, etc.

Ever since this thread started I have not understood where your coming from. You obviously need a tour guide while in Houston.

Why the hell does everyone make this HUGE deal about the urban/quality of life stuff. I guess in order to be urban we have to have everything crammed together like freakin sardines. I've said it before and I'll say it again. As an outsider looking in, I (and many people I know) love the cowboy (attitude not redneck) aspect of this town. It's sets this city apart from the rest of the southern cities and is the reason I moved here and it's also the reason this is THE CITY OF THE SOUTH.

Now as far as Atlanta, it's a pretty neat town but the city is not repleat with these kinds of stores. Atlanta is very suburban just like any southern city.

Houston is a great city with some work to do but for those of us into architecture and the like theres not a whole lot more you could ask for. We have many great things to this city that Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix etc can't match up with. Do we need to keep the ball rolling and be careful with developement? Of course. And let me say that there are many things I would like changed here but I'll tell ya, as far as a big city I have yet to find one I like better than Houston.

[citykid09]

This is in Dallas

This is also what that coner where the CVS is in Midtown Houston should look like.

[RaiderDude]

ya too bad, zoning laws would help... check this out

More recently, city planners rejected a plan to build a CVS Pharmacy on the site over concerns about putting a one-story retail building and drive-through on such a prominent Uptown site. ok i took the article off

[citykid09]

^Damn Houston needs to zone just a little bit so it can be semi cordinated.

Oh and that article you posted can't be on here. They said no copyright material allowed.

[DJ V Lawrence]

City Kid, With the exception of the Kroger picture I have yet to see you post one pic that is as impressive as you make it out to be. I could post (but won't) wonderful urban stores, apartments, condo's, streets, etc, etc, etc.

Ever since this thread started I have not understood where your coming from. You obviously need a tour guide while in Houston.

Why the hell does everyone make this HUGE deal about the urban/quality of life stuff. I guess in order to be urban we have to have everything crammed together like freakin sardines. I've said it before and I'll say it again. As an outsider looking in, I (and many people I know) love the cowboy (attitude not redneck) aspect of this town. It's sets this city apart from the rest of the southern cities and is the reason I moved here and it's also the reason this is THE CITY OF THE SOUTH.

Now as far as Atlanta, it's a pretty neat town but the city is not repleat with these kinds of stores. Atlanta is very suburban just like any southern city.

Houston is a great city with some work to do but for those of us into architecture and the like theres not a whole lot more you could ask for. We have many great things to this city that Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix etc can't match up with. Do we need to keep the ball rolling and be careful with developement? Of course. And let me say that there are many things I would like changed here but I'll tell ya, as far as a big city I have yet to find one I like better than Houston.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with Gary on this one. Exactly how much more urban development would you like to see put up in Houston other than the current projects in Midtown, Memorial City, and parts of Uptown? And exactly what problem does anyone here have with the spacious landscape and so-called "sprawl" in Houston's main business districts?

[citykid09]

CVS Should have atleast built a building that looks like this one in Midtown Atlanta, If not the one they built in Dallas. That just shows you how little respect CVS has for the people of Houston. They can Build Urban for other cities, but not for Houston. Thats not right at all.

[Gary]

CVS Should have atleast built a building that looks like this one in Midtown Atlanta, If not the one they built in Dallas.

[citykid09]

^ Ive been once. And why are you in Atlanta right now? Did you drive?

[Gary]

^ Ive been once. And why are you in Atlanta right now? Did you drive?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm a musician and travel there to play a few times a year and no I'm in Houston now. I'll be in ATL in September.

I don't mean to try and discourage your love for a city but again, these close ups are a little decieving if you've spent any time there. It's a pretty cool town and deffinately has some very cool architecture but it's very spread out and does not have even close to the same road infrastructure that Houston does.

Buckhead is pretty cool with some neat areas but is overrated and DT is beyond dead. The people there are nice but to laid back for me, and for a rock musician that makes for a bad crowd. Houston's crowds (people) are far superior (not mentally), they don't care as much about what people think.

Atlanta is a decent city but imo overrated.

[UrbaNerd]

City kid, once again I'm confused. What is so special about this CVS except that it's got parking in the back? And what do you mean that they have no respect for Houston? There are several in town that are very similar to this.

I'm in Atlanta now and again and it's not that great, I would choose Houston anyday.

True that they have and will continue to put up less than desirable structures in Houston and true that we could use better planning but that's what makes Houston unique. I've said before that what attracted me to Houston was the cowboy (not redneck) attitude of "anything goes". I don't think this city would have become what it is today without it. Yes we have to deal with some of the problems that come with this attitude but the positives far outway the negatives.

I don't mean to come across the wrong way with this but I think you have the wrong idea of Atlanta AND Houston. How many times have you visited Atlanta?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That right there looks horrible. If they simply slap the same suburban style CVS somewhere, with the parking in the back..it still looks bad. An "urban" CVS should be designed better. This is settling for a half-posterior job. Like I said in the past, Houston does not need to copy anyone else. Right now, we're still figuring out our own unique "urban formula".

Oh, and don't worry about Citykid..after all, he IS marooned up there in BCS.

[citykid09]

i am coming to Houston in about two weeks. So I want be marooned in BCS!

^And Gray Have you ever been to Little 5 Points in Atlanta? How does it look? Is it better than Montrose?