2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[Deut28Thirteen]

I liked the last question none answered it though. But they both went through their life story that we have heard so many times before.

[RedScare]

The CNN pundits are wondering why McCain brought up earmarks. They even pointed out that the McCain campaign said he would not mention them.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Both were evasive as usual neither said anything new, same old rhetoric, we are in for a long 4 years no matter what.

Are both of these idiots stupid enough to think Warren Buffett would take a treasury job? He's made a ton of money watching the goofballs in congress make all the wrong moves while he counters and cashes in.

Enjoy your free drinks Red, I have a feeling you may need them.

[Deut28Thirteen]

The CNN pundits are wondering why McCain brought up earmarks. They even pointed out that the McCain campaign said he would not mention them.

I was lmao when they were talking about earmarks and how McCain was not going to talk about earmarks but he did.

CNN goes crazy with pundits on nights like this.

[musicman]

Both were evasive as usual neither said anything new, same old rhetoric, we are in for a long 4 years no matter what.

Best summary of the night. sounds like americans are more frustrated than ever giving the govt a rating of 9% favorable.

[RedScare]

Both were evasive as usual neither said anything new, same old rhetoric, we are in for a long 4 years no matter what.

I think McCain's offer to buy everyone's mortgages was new. Pretty vague about what he would do and how he would do it...just like his spending freeze. He throws it out there just to see how it sounds, it seems.

Otherwise, you are right. Nothing new. Obama played prevent defense against McCain's ineffective offense. In footbal, that equals a win for Obama.

[crunchtastic]

I keep coming back to the same reaction, which is, they talk down to their audience. Obama less so, but they both are guilty. Red has gone here before: what is wrong with elitism? What is wrong with having the smarter answer? What is wrong with taking command of the stage and not dumbing down your policy ideas? I think a lot of average folks are really hungry for smart people to come up with an answer. I felt like Obama was holding back on more comprehensive answers, for fear of alienating some dude with a high school education. That dude wants some smartness too, I guarantee it. Are all the smart people corrupted by government and industry? I would rather try and fail than endure another term of pandering, populist crap. Don't get me started on the idea of Meg Whitman as treasury secretary. Jesus. Before anyone busts me on it, in terms of an academic government, I know how the Czech response went. But still.

[Mark F. Barnes]

I think McCain's offer to buy everyone's mortgages was new. Pretty vague about what he would do and how he would do it...just like his spending freeze. He throws it out there just to see how it sounds, it seems.

Otherwise, you are right. Nothing new. Obama played prevent defense against McCain's ineffective offense. In footbal, that equals a win for Obama.

Honestly Red I guess I just sub-consciously ignored that one as BS cause it isn't going to happen. I think McCain must have found some Peyote while he was home in AZ studying up for tonight. He could have gone out to Joshua Tree with the Ari and the boys, and still has a bit of a buzz.

Don't see much help in our futures. Just got to tough out the next few months and let the market recover. I know we will get a bump post November, and by then some of this stranded capital will begin to move around. Maybe by then, if they haven't pissed away all the bailout money, the can begin to "really" inject into the economy.

[Deut28Thirteen]

Otherwise, you are right. Nothing new. Obama played prevent defense against McCain's ineffective offense. In footbal, that equals a win for Obama.

Defense wins Championships (elections in this case) lol

Crunch i agree with you, what is wrong with a leader that is smater than many of the people we know if not all? People we had a Joe six pack leader his name was Bush and I dont think we want another. And this may just be me asking, but what is a Joe six pack? No offense to anybody but i thought Joe Six Pack was a lazy red neck and not a repersentation of the middle class America like Palin seem to keep referring that it was.

[barracuda]

I keep coming back to the same reaction, which is, they talk down to their audience. Obama less so, but they both are guilty. Red has gone here before: what is wrong with elitism? What is wrong with having the smarter answer? What is wrong with taking command of the stage and not dumbing down your policy ideas? I think a lot of average folks are really hungry for smart people to come up with an answer. I felt like Obama was holding back on more comprehensive answers, for fear of alienating some dude with a high school education. That dude wants some smartness too, I guarantee it. Are all the smart people corrupted by government and industry? I would rather try and fail than endure another term of pandering, populist crap. Don't get me started on the idea of Meg Whitman as treasury secretary. Jesus. Before anyone busts me on it, in terms of an academic government, I know how the Czech response went. But still.

I hope you're right. The last eight years of Republicans disparaging and attacking intellectualism and elitism has gotten really old. And while I think that attitude worked effectively against Gore and Kerry, the mood of the country has changed drastically due to Bush. I for one am ready for a President who is smarter than I am. Everyone should yell that out the window .

Defense wins Championships (elections in this case) lol

Crunch i agree with you, what is wrong with a leader that is smater than many of the people we know if not all? People we had a Joe six pack leader his name was Bush and I dont think we want another. And this may just be me asking, but what is a Joe six pack? No offense to anybody but i thought Joe Six Pack was a lazy red neck and not a repersentation of the middle class America like Palin seem to keep referring that it was.

It's this ridiculous notion that bozos living in small towns are better than those of us that live in big cities. It's total irony too, as these small town folks are one of the groups that has suffered the most after being suckered into voting for these neo-con fools.

I was lmao when they were talking about earmarks and how McCain was not going to talk about earmarks but he did.

CNN goes crazy with pundits on nights like this.

CNN really does go crazy with the pundit circus don't they! Let's see if Jon Stewart decides to mock them on this.

[RedScare]

CNN said they are not going into the Spin Room. Hooray for them. I switched to Fox to see if they would follow...Karl Rove's big head was hogging the screen. Looks like they're REPORTING from the Spin Room.

I also saw that THEIR poll said McCain won 86-12. Did they show a different debate on Fox?

Edited October 8, 2008 by RedScare

[Mark F. Barnes]

Nope, same worthless waste of time on Fox...........

[barracuda]

CNN said they are not going into the Spin Room. Hooray for them. I switched to Fox to see if they would follow...Karl Rove's big head was hogging the screen. Looks like they're REPORTING from the Spin Room.

I also saw that THEIR poll said McCain won 86-12. Did they show a different debate on Fox?

Let's see...they add Karl Rove, possibly the greatest political liar and thief of our time, as a regular contributor. What was the question?

Edited October 8, 2008 by barracuda

[Mark F. Barnes]

Red if you go poll in say New Iberia LA. you'll get the same offset on sucking mudbugs heads.....if you catch my drift. Pollsters you got to love them.

As in the words of a great band of my liking Blood Sweat and Tears...........

What goes up, must come down, spinnin' wheels they got to go 'round..................

[Deut28Thirteen]

CNN said they are not going into the Spin Room. Hooray for them. I switched to Fox to see if they would follow...Karl Rove's big head was hogging the screen. Looks like they're REPORTING from the Spin Room.

I also saw that THEIR poll said McCain won 86-12. Did they show a different debate on Fox?

I cant stand Fox! I like A.C. he tells it like it is. I was going to see if fox was going in their but there there was no reason there always in the spin room. CNN is the best I enjoy hearing from both sides and not an over powering voice from one.

[KinkaidAlum]

McCain has lost his mind.

Throwing out Meg Whitman from EBay as someone to take over for Paulson? Didn't anyone in the McCain camp see the headlines from October 6th, 2008? EBay is laying off 10% of its workforce! That's about 1,000 full-timers and hundreds more part-timers.

In the same very week McCain/Palin are trying to rally their base with strong rhetoric and negative commercials and attacks, McCain offers a new bailout plan? $300 billion for the big-bad-hated feds to come in and buy private property (mortgages). Where's TJ with his commie talk now?

Did McCain really say he wanted to put Americans' medical records on the internet?

In the end, my vote for Nader is off the table. I am officially voting for "that one."

[CoolBuddy06]

McCain has lost his mind.

Throwing out Meg Whitman from EBay as someone to take over for Paulson? Didn't anyone in the McCain camp see the headlines from October 6th, 2008? EBay is laying off 10% of its workforce! That's about 1,000 full-timers and hundreds more part-timers.

In the same very week McCain/Palin are trying to rally their base with strong rhetoric and negative commercials and attacks, McCain offers a new bailout plan? $300 billion for the big-bad-hated feds to come in and buy private property (mortgages). Where's TJ with his commie talk now?

Did McCain really say he wanted to put Americans' medical records on the internet?

In the end, my vote for Nader is off the table. I am officially voting for "that one."

He means 'electronic'. His first 2 or 3 sentences of that answer was a straight repeat of Obama's words, without acknowledgement. But that's a slip of tongue that some average computer user will catch and correct.

[KinkaidAlum]

He means 'electronic'. His first 2 or 3 sentences of that answer was a straight repeat of Obama's words, without acknowledgement. But that's a slip of tongue that some average computer user will catch and correct.

You're right. He did copy Obama's answer almost to the word until he said "internet" instead of "computer."

It was just a personal LOL moment for us at home.

We laughed at that one almost as much as we laugh about the EBay idolization. From Palin's plane sale to McCain's 1.3 million "make a living off of EBay," you'd think someone close to him would have a personal stake in the company or sumthin'.

[pineda]

Yes, we laughed too, during the debate tonight.

Every time Senator Obama would say, "Look, let me be clear here."

We expected it and he delivered. Classic Obama!

[Trae]

Yes, we laughed too, during the debate tonight.

Every time Senator Obama would say, "Look, let me be clear here."

We expected it and he delivered. Classic Obama!

That's cute.

[CoolBuddy06]

That's cute.

Yeah I saw that. Has it gone that far for McCain? No handshakes anymore? I like him so much but the closer I look at him, the less I admire him. I'm just waiting for the last straw.

[Mark F. Barnes]

FactChecking Debate No. 2

October 8, 2008

Nonsense in Nashville

Summary

McCain and Obama debated for the second time, in Nashville. We noted some misleading statements and mangled facts:

[*]McCain proposed to write down the amount owed by over-mortgaged homeowners and claimed the idea as his own:

[sarahiki]

I keep coming back to the same reaction, which is, they talk down to their audience. Obama less so, but they both are guilty. Red has gone here before: what is wrong with elitism? What is wrong with having the smarter answer? What is wrong with taking command of the stage and not dumbing down your policy ideas? I think a lot of average folks are really hungry for smart people to come up with an answer. I felt like Obama was holding back on more comprehensive answers, for fear of alienating some dude with a high school education. That dude wants some smartness too, I guarantee it. Are all the smart people corrupted by government and industry? I would rather try and fail than endure another term of pandering, populist crap. Don't get me started on the idea of Meg Whitman as treasury secretary. Jesus. Before anyone busts me on it, in terms of an academic government, I know how the Czech response went. But still.

But isn't there a difference between speaking intelligently, and talking down to someone? I couldn't believe it when McCain said to the audience, "Most of you probably hadn't heard of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac before all this happened." Pat, pat. That's obviously talking down to someone. But to speak intelligently, and assume people understand you, is different. Yes, you'll probably lose most of them, so keep it brief...

Edited October 8, 2008 by sarahiki

[sarahiki]

That's cute.

Thanks for posting that... OMG, as I was watching, I thought, "No way... did McCain just refuse to shake Obama's hand? And pawn him off on Cindy, instead?" I thought I have seen it wrong.

My husband's response was to note that it was typical behavior of McCain towards Cindy that he makes her shake the hand of the guy he won't.

(posts edited because they are being duplicated somehow)

Edited October 8, 2008 by sarahiki

[Mark F. Barnes]

But isn't there a difference between speaking intelligently, and talking down to someone? I couldn't believe it when McCain said to the audience, "Most of you probably hadn't heard of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac before all this happened." Pat, pat. That's obviously talking down to someone. But to speak intelligently, and assume people understand you, is different. Yes, you'll probably lose most of them, so keep it brief...

Not so far fetched, the average John Q Public, has more that likely not heard of either Fannie or Freddie. I think you are reaching here. Even the people that have heard of them now, the majority of them don't fully understand what they are other than a pain in there wallets. The average John Q Public is not a news junkie like some of us, and doesn't fully get it yet, but they will if they just pay attention long enough. For all you know, that audience had been briefly polled before being brought in, and one of those questions may have been, had the heard of Fannie or Freddie, before this fallout. That is not unheard of. If you attend this type of event, there are commonly people running around the lobby with clip board, asking brief short questions, it gives the speakers a feel for the demographic of the audience that they are speaking too. Not uncommon at all.

[sarahiki]

Not so far fetched, the average John Q Public, has more that likely not heard of either Fannie or Freddie. I think you are reaching here. Even the people that have heard of them now, the majority of them don't fully understand what they are other than a pain in there wallets. The average John Q Public is not a news junkie like some of us, and doesn't fully get it yet, but they will if they just pay attention long enough. For all you know, that audience had been briefly polled before being brought in, and one of those questions may have been, had the heard of Fannie or Freddie, before this fallout. That is not unheard of. If you attend this type of event, there are commonly people running around the lobby with clip board, asking brief short questions, it gives the speakers a feel for the demographic of the audience that they are speaking too. Not uncommon at all.

OK, I'll buy that. If he actually had some info that they admittedly hadn't heard of Fannie and Freddie. And I probably do overestimate the public's knowledge and intelligence. I just know that I raised my eyebrow when he said that, and thought, "I certainly HAD heard of them, Mr. Smartypants." So it didn't play well with me.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Well the ACORD machine is coming off the tracks, They raided the Nevada HQ yesterday, evidently the Dallas Cowboys offense including Romo are now registered to vote in Nevada. News stated 1100 of every 2000 early voters cards in Ohio are Bogus. 90% of these are ACORN induced. ACORN people under indictment in Missouri, there are thousands of lawyers and para-legals flocking to Florida to "gear up" for the election! LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!! I knew this was coming. Another election decided in the court room........... So much for the playoffs coverage, we'll be chad tracking again.

[musicman]

Well the ACORD machine is coming off the tracks, They raided the Nevada HQ yesterday, evidently the Dallas Cowboys offense including Romo are now registered to vote in Nevada. News stated 1100 of every 2000 early voters cards in Ohio are Bogus. 90% of these are ACORN induced. ACORN people under indictment in Missouri, there are thousands of lawyers and para-legals flocking to Florida to "gear up" for the election! LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!! I knew this was coming. Another election decided in the court room........... So much for the playoffs coverage, we'll be chad tracking again.

did someone say national ID?

[sevfiv]

I was wondering if anyone was satisfied with the answers to the health care commodity question:

Trella: Senator, selling health care coverage in America as the marketable commodity has become a very profitable industry.

Do you believe health care should be treated as a commodity?

Seemed like they just regurgitated (erroneously, at times, as pointed out by factcheck) their plans, but not addressing the issue of health care as an "article of commerce."

I also thought the next related question was interesting. After the initial answers, Brokaw asked "Is health care in America a privilege, a right, or a responsibility?"

McCain answered responsibility, Obama answered that it was a right.

Oh, and here's the transcript of the debate:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/07/pre...ate.transcript/

[N Judah]

i didn't feel like they were talking down to the audience. i only felt this because it is my opinion that we listen to them speak so that we are sure that THEY know what THEY are talking about. sometimes it really does not seem like they do. for example, a person with a basic understanding of the financial crisis and who had the ability to actually do something about it probably would have done something about it. that's my logic.