2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[TheNiche]

Whoa, it was just one aisle, not a whole frickin' island. That WOULD be creepy! Or creepier.

Ah, yes. Aisle. You know what I meant. And I'm actually a little surprised that a whole aisle full of cheese wouldn't creep you out too.

[crunchtastic]

There was effectively no recognition that Obama's junket was merely a political maneuver, the result of the McCain campaign's criticism. It was not done for genuine concern, or to learn anything; it was done to silence inane critics. It was a fake...and a resoundingly successful fake, apparently. He's apparently got somebody stateside thinking that meeting with five foreign leaders in a single day is somehow productive or otherwise impressive.

I think everyone would agree that it's politics and photo ops and little more. I certainly see it as such. It's just a more interesting photo op than the old man in the cheese aisle.

I agree with you about the 'guests' --I like Olberman but I don't care for all the chuckleheads he puts on.

[sevfiv]

The funny thing is, Republicans still think Calvin and Hobbs are "nifty." Tells me all I need to know.

Everyone knows that those cute "Calvin peeing on ____" stickers are purchased by intelligent consumers and are the most clever and poignant forms of commentary out there

[crunchtastic]

Everyone knows that those cute "Calvin peeing on ____" stickers are purchased by intelligent consumers and are the most clever and poignant forms of commentary out there

Hmm, wonder it those ones of Calvin peeing on GM trucks are gonna be collector items soon.

[Trae]

Watch Obama live from Germany: http://www.rte.ie/live/

Quite a crowd.

[Trae]

CSPAN stream: http://cspan.org/watch/cs_cspan3_wm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

[Trae]

I was off. German police roughly estimated the crowd at 200,000!!

Der Speigel OnLine Photo Gallery: Obama Takes in the German Capital

Link to Photo Gallery (24 photos): http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-33614.html

[crunchtastic]

I was off. German police roughly estimated the crowd at 200,000!!

Der Speigel OnLine Photo Gallery: Obama Takes in the German Capital

Link to Photo Gallery (24 photos): http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-33614.html

love the "obamafest" button.

[Jeebus]

Why is Obama campaigning outside the United States?

[Mark F. Barnes]

He's trying to look Presidential, and also trying to quell the remarks about his experience in worldly matters. McCain did the same thing when he sewed up the nomination early, he went straight overseas with camera crew in tow. They are trying to capture the voters that are straddling the fence on which way to go. It's all part of the script. Come October they will be flying coast to coast, and try to real them in, after the fancy footwork is done.

[Trae]

Why is Obama campaigning outside the United States?

Kind of because McCain. McCain's campaign was like "OBAMA HAS NEVA BEEN TO TEH IRAQ!!!", among other thing. So, Obama took it overseas, and where he has visited, the leaders have agreed with him. For example, Iraq's prime minister likes the timetable Obama set for Iraq. But McCain and friends "UH...NO! HE WAS MISQUOTED!!!" Uh...no he wasn't. He was translated by his own private translator. He's being a really bitter bear about this speech and his tour. He gets mad that Obama hasn't gone over seas in awhile, but then when he goes, he gets mad about him being gone.

McCain's campain for the loss this week. Major loss.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Trae

[TJones]

Watch Obama live from Germany: http://www.rte.ie/live/

Quite a crowd.

Germans will go ANYWHERE there is free Beer and Schnitzel.

"The walls between races and tribes, natives and immigrants, Christians and Muslims and Jews cannot stand," he said.

I wonder if Obama said any of this stuff when he was meeting the "powers that be" of Israel and Palestine ?

Edited July 24, 2008 by TJones

[Gary]

Kind of because McCain. McCain's campaign was like "OBAMA HAS NEVA BEEN TO TEH IRAQ!!!", among other thing. So, Obama took it overseas, and where he has visited, the leaders have agreed with him. For example, Iraq's prime minister likes the timetable Obama set for Iraq. But McCain and friends "UH...NO! HE WAS MISQUOTED!!!" Uh...no he wasn't. He was translated by his own private translator. He's being a really bitter bear about this speech and his tour. He gets mad that Obama hasn't gone over seas in awhile, but then when he goes, he gets mad about him being gone.

McCain's campain for the loss this week. Major loss.

Trey, l like you bro, but you need to understand the political system a little more. In other words Obama, like McCain, is basically full of it. Obama is in Iraq for himself. Not because of McCain.

I'm blown away daily by the masses that think this guy is going to solve our issues. Of course if you like tax and spend politicians, he's your man.

[Gary]

Here's an article by Ken Timmerman on Obama's trip to Iraq. I must preface that Timmerman is deffinately conservative, so keep that in mind.

http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/obama_in_.../24/115974.html

[Trae]

Trey, l like you bro, but you need to understand the political system a little more. In other words Obama, like McCain, is basically full of it. Obama is in Iraq for himself. Not because of McCain.

I'm blown away daily by the masses that think this guy is going to solve our issues. Of course if you like tax and spend politicians, he's your man.

Who is this Trey you speak of?

I know Obama is there for himself, but McCain is the guy who kept going on about "Obama has never been to Iraq, etc.". Now all that talk is hitting the fan for McCain and his campaign. While he is choosing between Bordon or Kraft cheese, Obama is meeting with leaders of nations and speaking to 200,000+ people (and yes, even though they have no vote here, you can't say they don't influence us at least a little).

[barracuda]

Who is this Trey you speak of?

I know Obama is there for himself, but McCain is the guy who kept going on about "Obama has never been to Iraq, etc.". Now all that talk is hitting the fan for McCain and his campaign. While he is choosing between Bordon or Kraft cheese, Obama is meeting with leaders of nations and speaking to 200,000+ people (and yes, even though they have no vote here, you can't say they don't influence us at least a little).

Exactly.

What's funny is that while Obama gave an impressive speech to over 200,000 people in Germany, McCain tries to play catch up by going to a German restaurant in Columbus, OH. Kind of funny, but sad really.

[Gary]

Who is this Trey you speak of?

I know Obama is there for himself, but McCain is the guy who kept going on about "Obama has never been to Iraq, etc.". Now all that talk is hitting the fan for McCain and his campaign. While he is choosing between Bordon or Kraft cheese, Obama is meeting with leaders of nations and speaking to 200,000+ people (and yes, even though they have no vote here, you can't say they don't influence us at least a little).

"Trea", McCain is/was speaking about Obamas lack of foreign policy experience which is true. A trip to Iraq doesn't make an ambassador out of a 1st term senator. Whether Obama is worshipped across the world is inconsequential (and weird). McCain, unlike Obama, IS inexperienced in this matter. In fact there's not many that are less experienced in foreign policy than is Obama.

I'm finding it hard to understand why McCain looking at cheese is an issue. Sounds like grasping at straws to me. I'm not a big McCain fan at all, but he's proven himself, good or bad, to be a seasoned player. Of course in a lot of ways that can be a bad thing.

Can anything good come out of Washington DC? Obama included?

Exactly.

McCain tries to play catch up by going to a German restaurant in Columbus, OH. Kind of funny, but sad really.

You guys are really grasping here. Speculation is never a good argument.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Gary

[RedScare]

Trey, l like you bro, but you need to understand the political system a little more. In other words Obama, like McCain, is basically full of it. Obama is in Iraq for himself. Not because of McCain.

I'm blown away daily by the masses that think this guy is going to solve our issues. Of course if you like tax and spend politicians, he's your man.

It appears that someone has not been following the political campaigns, Gary. Perhaps on purpose. McCain dared Obama to go, hoping he would stumble. Obama has blown them away, leaving McCain looking like a bitter old man. Obama may not solve our problems, but I can't help feeling that a vote for McCain is a vote for giving up.

I'm not ready to feel old and tired yet.

[Gary]

It appears that someone has not been following the political campaigns, Gary. Perhaps on purpose. McCain dared Obama to go, hoping he would stumble. Obama has blown them away, leaving McCain looking like a bitter old man. Obama may not solve our problems, but I can't help feeling that a vote for McCain is a vote for giving up.

I'm not ready to feel old and tired yet.

Yes someone has been following the political campaigns, Red. And yes, on purpose. McCain daring Obama to go to Iraq has nothing to do with what I said, so you've lost me.

Explain how you feel that a vote for McCain "is a vote for giving up"? I repeat... Speculation is a bad argument.

[houstonmacbro]

Can anything good come out of Washington DC? Obama included?

I think since Americans have abdicated their authority to the cons in Washington and most state and local governments, we'll always have sad and sadder governments and 'governors'.

I am not a big believer in one man changing any system (Obama or McCain)!

[musicman]

Exactly.

What's funny is that while Obama gave an impressive speech to over 200,000 people in Germany,

he was also scheduled to visit some US troops in germany but cancelled out on them.

[TheNiche]

Who is this Trey you speak of?

I know Obama is there for himself, but McCain is the guy who kept going on about "Obama has never been to Iraq, etc.". Now all that talk is hitting the fan for McCain and his campaign. While he is choosing between Bordon or Kraft cheese, Obama is meeting with leaders of nations and speaking to 200,000+ people (and yes, even though they have no vote here, you can't say they don't influence us at least a little).

In the bigger picture, actually, I kind of see Obama's trip as a minor victory for McCain. But it was an easy one that he only sort of happened upon, and months ago.

See, McCain had plenty of time on his hands in between when he got the nomination and when Obama did. It allowed him to take a break from active campaigning and do some stuff (like travel) that Obama really hadn't had the chance to do because he was still duking it out with Hillary. Whatever McCain did that Obama didn't is something that McCain could then use as ammo against Obama right out of the gate in shaping people's first comparative impressions of Obama, whether it was travel or active participation in the Senate...whatever. It was a freebie, and not something that McCain would've had the luxury of if his opponent had won the nomination at about the same time as he did. Anyway, now Obama is having to spend valuable time and campaign resources overseas when he could be actively campaigning stateside.

And while he may get a fair bit of good press out of it, there's nothing about this trip that is in any way earth shattering or that will really have any effect on the outcome of the election. Its good press, but it is weak. Not memorable. ...lest we forget the apparent proliferation of ADD among American voters.

Besides which, 200,000 Germans don't matter. The handful of people in a German restaurant in Ohio do. Moreso because Ohio is an important state, after all.

Edited July 25, 2008 by TheNiche

[Trae]

"Trea", McCain is/was speaking about Obamas lack of foreign policy experience which is true. A trip to Iraq doesn't make an ambassador out of a 1st term senator. Whether Obama is worshipped across the world is inconsequential (and weird). McCain, unlike Obama, IS inexperienced in this matter. In fact there's not many that are less experienced in foreign policy than is Obama.

Trae

But anyway, like Red said, McCain kept daring Obama to go, hoping that the military leaders/soldiers there, as well as leaders of nations over there would shun Obama and not like the plans he is coming with. That sure did hit the fan for the McCain camp this week. Obama being worshiped across the world (don't think he is) is not weird. It's a lot better than being hated around the world. I can tell you that.

I'm finding it hard to understand why McCain looking at cheese is an issue. Sounds like grasping at straws to me. I'm not a big McCain fan at all, but he's proven himself, good or bad, to be a seasoned player. Of course in a lot of ways that can be a bad thing.

Grasping at straws? Hardly my man:

meanwhile...

Can anything good come out of Washington DC? Obama included?

We're almost there.

You guys are really grasping here. Speculation is never a good argument.

You really don't find that interesting at all? You think it was just coincidence?

[RedScare]

Yes someone has been following the political campaigns, Red. And yes, on purpose. McCain daring Obama to go to Iraq has nothing to do with what I said, so you've lost me.

Explain how you feel that a vote for McCain "is a vote for giving up"? I repeat... Speculation is a bad argument.

Because John McCain represents a vote for unilateralism and a diminished US presence in the world. Obama represents the possibility that the US returns to its position as leader of the free world. John McCain is the 70s. Obama is Kennedy and Reagan. Those two presidents were presidents of the world. Bush and McCain aim to be presidents of 51% of the US. Bush has shown that foreign policy fails miserably when foreigners disagree with you. If this election is REALLY about foreign policy and leader of the free world status, then the election is already over. Obama won it this week.

[TheNiche]

...there goes the Jewish vote.

Did he draw on a little Hitler mustache, too?

Edited July 25, 2008 by TheNiche

[Trae]

In the bigger picture, actually, I kind of see Obama's trip as a minor victory for McCain. But it was an easy one that he only sort of happened upon, and months ago.

Obama's trip is in no way a victory for McCain.

See, McCain had plenty of time on his hands in between when he got the nomination and when Obama did. It allowed him to take a break from active campaigning and do some stuff (like travel) that Obama really hadn't had the chance to do because he was still duking it out with Hillary. Whatever McCain did that Obama didn't is something that McCain could then use as ammo against Obama right out of the gate in shaping people's first comparative impressions of Obama, whether it was travel or active participation in the Senate...whatever. It was a freebie, and not something that McCain would've had the luxury of if his opponent had won the nomination at about the same time as he did. Anyway, now Obama is having to spend valuable time and campaign resources overseas when he could be actively campaigning stateside.

McCain didn't travel anywhere until after Obama had won the nomination. That is when McCain went to Latin America. And yes, while Obama clinched the nomination after McCain, what he was doing while going up against Hillary is still campaigning. He is still putting out his plans and policies for all to hear. He's not being silent, and McCain didn't really capitalize on that time anyway. I don't remember him doing any big campaign events until Obama clinched (either that, or it was just overshadowed). While Obama is away in Europe, what is McCain doing here? Shopping for cheese? Riding in a golf cart with Bush in Maine? Taking his daily afternoon nap? What he is doing overseas is going to have an affect stateside. People see what he is doing, and how much the world likes Obama. I highly doubt that if McCain went to Germany, he would draw even 50,000 people, unless they were protesters. Obama just raised $50 million in June, and he'll probably gain $50 million or more again in July, especially with his trip.

And while he may get a fair bit of good press out of it, there's nothing about this trip that is in any way earth shattering or that will really have any effect on the outcome of the election. Its good press, but it is weak. Not memorable. ...lest we forget the apparent proliferation of ADD among American voters.

*Sigh*

No Niche, no. This is getting a ton of press in America, and in Europe. The main is not even President, and had 200,000 people show up to hear him speak in Berlin. Add to that, he got the red carpet when he went to Jordan and Israel. This trip will have a lasting effect on the election, and don't be surprised to see it come up many times in future debates, etc. It is memorable, on today alone.

[houstonmacbro]

Have the obligatory debates been scheduled for the candidates?

Edited July 25, 2008 by houstonmacbro

[Trae]

...there goes the Jewish vote.

Did he draw on a little Hitler mustache, too?

It's 2008.

[RedScare]

...there goes the Jewish vote.

Did he draw on a little Hitler mustache, too?

Hmm, two consecutive posts revealing how little you know about politics and the world, Niche. You should probably stick to economics books. The Jews don't hate Germany anymore. And Germans don't like Hitler anymore. But, your attempt at humor would probably play well at a Bush/McCain fundraiser, though.

[RedScare]

I might point out that McCain had several months while Obama was still battling Clinton to define Obama to the US and the world. This week has shown that he failed miserably. Obama is defining himself, while McCain is making misquotes and whining about press coverage. Leaders COMMAND attention. McCain is pleading for attention.

Obama's election is not assured by any means, but it is becoming increasingly clear that if he is not elected, it will not be for lack of qualification for the office.