Soulja Boy's Effect on Society

[memebag]

One place where one COULD make the argument that Rap has ruined the music is Reggae, Rap's birthplace. Rap has so taken over Reggae, that Reggae has essentially become Rap to a Carribean beat. But, here again, one cannot really blame Rap. Music gives the people what they want. If the majority of Reggae fans like Rap infused Reggae, that is what the artists will give them. Now, whether the fans wanted it, or the corporate studios decided they wanted it, can be debated. But, that is what we get....or at least that is what those who buy the music get. Me, I've been playing my old stuff for quite a while now. The music industry bigwigs haven't been able to judge good music for many years now.

I have a very low opinion of most people. I think they get what they like and always have. I like a lot of old and new music, but very little of it has mass appeal. There has always been popular dreck, since the days of sheet music salesmen. We look back on a year like 1969 and remember "Come Togther" (#1 on Billboard's Hot 100 for 1 week), but forget that "Sugar, Sugar" by The Archies was the #1 hit for 4 weeks.

[Gary]

While I understand where Gary is going, I disagree that Rap is the cause of the problem. Rap is not injuring the talent base. However, it may be diluting it. If not for Rap, these "musicians" would not be in the talent base at all. They would not be rock or jazz musicians, they would be in another line of work. There would still be the same number of musicians, only fewer Rap artists.

Still, Rap is not the illness. It is a symptom of the illness. Gary's post suggests that if not for Rap, other music genres would be better. This is not the case. The other types of music would STILL be bad without Rap. When I turn on the radio and hear horrible "alternative" music, or always bad Pop or Grunge or terrible Metal, it is not Rap's fault that these non-Rap musicians are unlistenable. It is the fault of the musicians, or the corporate music industry, or radio consolidation, or Americans with poor music tastes....but not Rap. Rap is merely another example of bad music produced by a failed industry.

One place where one COULD make the argument that Rap has ruined the music is Reggae, Rap's birthplace. Rap has so taken over Reggae, that Reggae has essentially become Rap to a Carribean beat. But, here again, one cannot really blame Rap. Music gives the people what they want. If the majority of Reggae fans like Rap infused Reggae, that is what the artists will give them. Now, whether the fans wanted it, or the corporate studios decided they wanted it, can be debated. But, that is what we get....or at least that is what those who buy the music get. Me, I've been playing my old stuff for quite a while now. The music industry bigwigs haven't been able to judge good music for many years now.

I obviously didn't do a good enough job at explaining myself. I don't believe rap is the sole problem with music, I was just focusing on what it has done to the music industry. You are absolutely correct about alternative, grunge and the like, but again my comments were specific to the rap genre.

I also agree that the problem lies with the industry and not the artist. The industry is responsible (and has been) for most of our woes as musicians. Rap is a by-product, but I still stick to my guns that it has deeply hurt a possible talent base that was once occupied by REAL players. True that many of those "rap artists" would probably be working at McDonalds instead of becoming musicians, but there would be a number of them that decided on music as an occupation, and become formidable musicians that many would enjoy.

As far as the bigwigs knowing good music... It's not that they don't know it, it's that they don't care. They go where the sponsors go.

[RedScare]

I don't believe rap is the sole problem with music, I was just focusing on what it has done to the music industry.

Rap deserves no more blame for the music industry's woes than Britney Spears, Hannah Montana, the Archies or the Monkees. Perhaps Rap's in your face style makes it an easier target, but it is still merely a sympton of a dysfunctional industry.

In that sense, I disagree with your assessment.

[Trae]

HAIF is not "every other site" you post on. HAIF is HAIF and is not going to lower its standards because you happen to also frequent lower class fora.

You already know that posting profanity is not appropriate on HAIF. It's in the terms of service you agreed to when you signed up. If you need a refresher, click the "Guidelines" link at the top of each page.

Lower class fora?

Editor, it is your forum. I don't need to argue with you.

[TJones]

I have a very low opinion of most people. I think they get what they like and always have. I like a lot of old and new music, but very little of it has mass appeal. There has always been popular dreck, since the days of sheet music salesmen. We look back on a year like 1969 and remember "Come Togther" (#1 on Billboard's Hot 100 for 1 week), but forget that "Sugar, Sugar" by The Archies was the #1 hit for 4 weeks.

That probably has more to do with the Artists in question rather than the songs involved and how long they survived at number one. Beatles kept producing music which introduced new teens every year to their music, and you would have to admit that The Beatles were a little more controversial and got a little more press than the Archies.

[Subdude]

Oh yeah, and rap doesn't dumb people down. Maybe crap like Soulja Boy, but not to good rap I listed to (for example, Child Rebel Soldiers).

Don't you think you think it would be better to be listening to classical music instead?

[Trae]

No.

[Jeebus]

I don't understand how a genre can "injure" a "talent base", nor do I understand why rap would be more injurious than other forms of music. The rappers with no musical ability are using tracks created by musicians with at least some musical ability.

The "musicians" creating these tracks for rappers aren't even that. Most of them can not read sheet music much less play an instrument. They've all found that they can sample a few Motown hits, add a synthesized drumbeat and call it a new song.

All though it may be considered a talent to sample tracks, I refuse to believe it constitutes the qualities of a true musician.

[memebag]

The "musicians" creating these tracks for rappers aren't even that. Most of them can not read sheet music much less play an instrument. They've all found that they can sample a few Motown hits, add a synthesized drumbeat and call it a new song.

Reading sheet music has never been a requirement for being a musician. The studio has become an instrument, so all of them can play at least that instrument.

All though it may be considered a talent to sample tracks, I refuse to believe it constitutes the qualities of a true musician.

As a musician (who can even read sheet music!), I don't think you have any idea how a rap track is produced. It takes musical talent and inspiration to make a good rap track.

[Trae]

The "musicians" creating these tracks for rappers aren't even that. Most of them can not read sheet music much less play an instrument. They've all found that they can sample a few Motown hits, add a synthesized drumbeat and call it a new song.

All though it may be considered a talent to sample tracks, I refuse to believe it constitutes the qualities of a true musician.

Typical stereotype. I agree with you on "rappers" like Soulja Boy, but other real rappers like Nas, Kanye West, Common, etc., add in some really good verses and stories to their songs. You have to have that talent, and I doubt many here do.

As for me, I like to write rhymes a lot. What I don't know how to do is make beats. Some rappers try to make beats, and they sound horrible (I have tried, and I never like the sound). People like Kanye, or 9th Wonder make a beat, and it is golden.

[TJones]

Timbaland makes the Phattest Beats AROUND !!! Trae, I have been listening to rap since it's BERTH. There have always been good and bad rappers. There is bubblegum rap and hardcore "serious" rap. The bubblegum sells ont he radio, the hardcore is passed around by word of mouth, and gets very little play anywhere other than your own stereo. The studios release the "hooks" that get folks to buy it, burn it, steal it, then next week a new "joint" comes out that's the BOMB ! I still listen to A Tribe called Quest, Beastie Boys, TuPac, Busta Ryhmes, MethodMan, LL Cool J, Luda..... I like rap alot, Tupac is about as rough as I am gonna get, because I don't like listening to "cappin' mothas and F'n up b*tch*s and h*s every 5 seconds. I am all about the beat, don't care a whole lot about how 50cent grew up, but I like his beats.

[Jeebus]

Typical stereotype. I agree with you on "rappers" like Soulja Boy, but other real rappers like Nas, Kanye West, Common, etc., add in some really good verses and stories to their songs. You have to have that talent, and I doubt many here do.

As for me, I like to write rhymes a lot. What I don't know how to do is make beats. Some rappers try to make beats, and they sound horrible (I have tried, and I never like the sound). People like Kanye, or 9th Wonder make a beat, and it is golden.

Poetry and music are both art, but are completely different. The same with making beats and sampling them

Take your boy Kanye for example: He's giving Diddy a run for his money when it comes to the title "most tracks sampled per album". A great example is "Stronger". He has the audacity to ask in his rap "Do anybody make real anymore?" while a sample from Daft Punk's "Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger" plays underneath - of which they sampled from a late 70's track called "Cola Bottle Baby" by Edwin Birdsong.

Give me a break.

[Jeebus]

As a musician (who can even read sheet music!), I don't think you have any idea how a rap track is produced.

Don't make obtuse assumptions. Considering that I use a mac with logic pro, I might have a clue as to what it takes to lay down an original beat to rap to.

It takes musical talent and inspiration to make a good rap track.

No, it takes talent to make a second "good" rap track.

"You get a lifetime to make a platinum record, but you only get one year to make a second one.." - Unknown

[Trae]

Poetry and music are both art, but are completely different. The same with making beats and sampling them

Take your boy Kanye for example: He's giving Diddy a run for his money when it comes to the title "most tracks sampled per album". A great example is "Stronger". He has the audacity to ask in his rap "Do anybody make real anymore?" as a sample from Daft Punk's "Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger" plays underneath - of which they sampled from a late 70's track called "Cola Bottle Baby" by Edwin Birdsong.

Give me a break.

When he said "does anybody make real ____ anymore", he was talking about rap verses, not beats. He was meaning everyone raps about "rims, money, and girls", and nothing new, or different.

[Jeebus]

When he said "does anybody make real ____ anymore", he was talking about rap verses, not beats. He was meaning everyone raps about "rims, money, and girls", and nothing new, or different.

Okay, but since I brought it up, shouldn't the same apply to the music behind the rap?

[memebag]

Don't make obtuse assumptions. Considering that I use a mac with logic pro, I might have a clue as to what it takes to lay down an original beat to rap to.

I was just responding to your statement. If you know it takes talent to create the music rappers rap over, why did you say "[a]ll though it may be considered a talent to sample tracks, I refuse to believe it constitutes the qualities of a true musician"? It isn't just "sampling". Sampling is a very small part of most rap I've heard.

[Jeebus]

I was just responding to your statement. If you know it takes talent to create the music rappers rap over, why did you say "[a]ll though it may be considered a talent to sample tracks, I refuse to believe it constitutes the qualities of a true musician"? It isn't just "sampling". Sampling is a very small part of most rap I've heard.

Dig deeper. Almost every rap song's instrumental harmony comes from a sampled track. Sure some funky fresh producer might be able to whip up a slick drum beat, but it actually takes talent to create a harmonious track that lays over that, but under the rap. And if you think about it, it's that harmonious track that is 99% time the "hook", that sells the track.

Take that away and you have talented poets and beat makers with no filler. 50 cent's "In Da Club" however, is a good example of a good beat, a great rap, and a solid, originally scored and non-sampled harmony that 100% sells that song. With out that harmony, the song is forgettable - with it however, that song is legendary.

[memebag]

Dig deeper. Almost every rap song's instrumental harmony comes from a sampled track.

I've got hundreds of rap tracks in iTunes, and less than 10% of them are built on a recognizable sample.

I also know (from personal experience) that it requires musical talent to create a track from samples.

[Trae]

Sure does. It is hard to make a good rap beat from samples. Jeebus makes it sound like it is so easy.

[Jeebus]

Sure does. It is hard to make a good rap beat from samples. Jeebus makes it sound like it is so easy.

Only because you make it sound so hard, and artistic.

[Jeebus]

I've got hundreds of rap tracks in iTunes, and less than 10% of them are built on a recognizable sample.

Find a true music lover in their late 40's - early 50's, and let them listen to some of the raps songs you have downloaded that have made it on the billboard charts. Guaranteed they'll start picking them off one at a time, naming the original song from the 60's 70's, and now even 80's that your favorite "unrecognizably sampled" tracks are from.

Google search any of those same songs (billboard hits mind you, so that you'll get a decent response) as: "Song-Name" Sampled From" and see what you find.

I also know (from personal experience) that it requires musical talent to create a track from samples.

This is infinitely debatable. If it's someone like Fatboy Slim, Moby, or Daft Punk then sure. If it's your typical rap producer, then no. Sure there are exceptions in the rap world, but they are just that.

[musicman]

sampling has been going on way before rap got started.

[Trae]

Only because you make it sound so hard, and artistic.

Why don't you do it.

[memebag]

Find a true music lover in their late 40's - early 50's, and let them listen to some of the raps songs you have downloaded that have made it on the billboard charts.

1. I haven't downloaded any of these tunes.

2. None of them were on the Billboard charts to my knowledge.

Guaranteed they'll start picking them off one at a time, naming the original song from the 60's 70's, and now even 80's that your favorite "unrecognizably sampled" tracks are from.

So? That doesn't back your claim that "almost every rap song's instrumental harmony comes from a sampled track."

This is infinitely debatable. If it's someone like Fatboy Slim, Moby, or Daft Punk then sure. If it's your typical rap producer, then no. Sure there are exceptions in the rap world, but they are just that.

So your claim is that the typical rap producer can create a track from samples without any musical talent? Please name a few of them. I have never heard their work.

[Jeebus]

sampling has been going on way before rap got started.

Which genre was doing it before rap?

So your claim is that the typical rap producer can create a track from samples without any musical talent? Please name a few of them. I have never heard their work.

Ugh.. I'm not going to do your research to prove me wrong for you. I can't help it if you can't tell where those catchy little hooks came from in all those popular rap songs. The world did exist before 1984. You can start with almost everything Dre, Busta, or Diddy has touched if you want to know who the sample-whores are. I think you might of heard of at least one of those guys. Again, if you don't want to believe me, that's fine, but I'm not going to do your research for you.

Why don't you do it.

Do what? Sample another song or create a back beat for that sample? Either way, my creating and posting anything in this forum will do nothing to change your mind that rap isn't original and that it doesn't make you less intelligent - and that's amazing considering you started this thread, called: "Soulja Boy's effect on society".

We might as well be arguing about how much faster Nikes make you run.

[Trae]

Wow. I created "Soulja Boy's Effect on Society" as a joke. SB is horrible. That is not rap, and if you think it is, then well, that's you.

And I wanted you to make a beat. You make it seem so easy and that it doesn't take any talent to do. Real rap is original. Some beats may not be, but who cares? They take an old sample and revamp it, while putting their own lines and verses to it. Rap isn't the only genre like this.

[musicman]

They take an old sample and revamp it, while putting their own lines and verses to it. Rap isn't the only genre like this.

if you look at rachmaninoff's piano concerto 2, while these songs don't sample it directly the melody is identical. think sinatra's full moon and empty arms or eric carmen's all by myself......

[memebag]

Which genre was doing it before rap?

Classical composers often worked traditional tunes into their pieces. Then there was "musique concr

[Trae]

Wow. I totally missed that part when he said Dr. Dre has no musical talent. Almost choked on my bbqed ribs.

*Trae is currently jammin to 'Let Me Ride'*

[musicman]

Which genre was doing it before rap?

sampling was happening in the 60's definitely.

James Tenney began by exploring the techniques developed by the Darmstadt school, for example in Collage #1 ("Blue Suede") (1961), basically a a tape manipulation collage of Elvis Presley's interpretation of Carl Perkins' Blue Suede Shoes, and Viet Flakes (1966), another similar "concrete" collage.

when the beatles when into their studio mode with george martin, they definitely sampled.

EDIT: i see memebag beat me to the beatles