Soulja Boy's Effect on Society

[TJones]

So it's the belief that the display of firearms is warranted that indicates a lack of intelligence? Intelligent people can't disagree about that issue?

Wait, I got it. Ok, someone who believes that just walking around in public brandishing a firearm, let alone a CHILD brandishing a firearm in public, and that it would be warranted, when it clearly isn't, is a PURE lack of intelligence.

Any intelligent person would see that a child has no business carrying firearms AT ALL, unless they were in immediate harm from something or someone, not just hangin out at the mall.

[memebag]

Wait, I got it. Ok, someone who believes that just walking around in public brandishing a firearm, let alone a CHILD brandishing a firearm in public, and that it would be warranted, when it clearly isn't, is a PURE lack of intelligence.

Any intelligent person would see that a child has no business carrying firearms AT ALL, unless they were in immediate harm from something or someone, not just hangin out at the mall.

And these intelligent people are incapable of distinguishing between a child carrying a firearm and a crude drawing of a child carrying a firearm?

[Trae]

The picture doesn't even have them as children.

[KinkaidAlum]

Man, I must be getting old because I didn't find anything funny about that video.

There are so many things wrong with it I don't even know where to begin.

[Trae]

You have to have at least a small sense of humor. The subtitles one was the best.

[TJones]

The picture doesn't even have them as children.

Trae, look at the picture closely, the heads don't match the bodies, do they ? You obviously can't distinguish the fact that someone has drawn their big, fat, ego inflated heads onto what appears to be just-prepubescent bodies holding assault rifles.

This would be kind of representative of the "Us Placers" video. I am glad they didn't hand those kids guns, but it was apparently ok for the kids to say the N-word ? I wonder if Mtv will "bleep" that part out ?

[Trae]

They said one N-word. The only curse word the ENTIRE song. The kid didn't even say it.

[editor]

I wonder if Mtv will "bleep" that part out ?

No need to. MTV hasn't played a video in a decade. Even MTV2 is scripted "reality" shows now. Ditto for VH1 whose slogan used to be "Music First."

[Jeebus]

That chick was 25 years old. Hardly a teen.

I think we were referring to the girls mentality.

You have to have at least a small sense of humor. The subtitles one was the best.

I agree with both of you. The first video disgusted me. The second video reminded me of the "nipple nipple" video, which I found funny.

[flipper]

This thread makes me think of Bubb Rubb. WOO WOOOOOOO!

flipper

[houstonmacbro]

Well, here are the subtitles:

"I'm President Charley!"

Am I missing something? What's offensive about that?

[Trae]

Am I missing something? What's offensive about that?

What are you talking about?

[houstonmacbro]

Video was removed for inappropriate language.

[Trae]

Weak.

[editor]

Weak.

The video was full of four-letter words. It is not appropriate for displaying on HAIF.

Please explain how the decision to remove it is "weak."

[editor]

No response. I figured.

[Trae]

Huh? This is my first time seeing this thread again. My first time seeing your comment.

At every other site I posted this at, there were no problems. HAIF is different I guess, but maybe if I had a "warning" or something (for curse words), then it could stay on.

[houstonmacbro]

I didn't see the video (here or anywhere else) that is why I asked why it was removed.

I guess I am the only person in American not aware of the controversy, video and music of Soulja Boy.

Looks like I'll have to catch up on YouTube today.

[editor]

At every other site I posted this at, there were no problems. HAIF is different I guess, but maybe if I had a "warning" or something (for curse words), then it could stay on.

HAIF is not "every other site" you post on. HAIF is HAIF and is not going to lower its standards because you happen to also frequent lower class fora.

You already know that posting profanity is not appropriate on HAIF. It's in the terms of service you agreed to when you signed up. If you need a refresher, click the "Guidelines" link at the top of each page.

[Gary]

I'm probably going to offend evryone here, but so be it.

I am amazed that the Amercican youth have embraced rap/hip hop/screw, etc, en masse. It has not only dumbed down these individules socially, but has really dumbed them down musically. Maybe I'm to old school, but when i was growing up Motown was the urban music of the day, and it took great dedication from those who wrote and performed it. It created great session writers, and producers as well. Today most urban "artist" are musical morons who haven't a clue as to properly construct or play as there seniors did.

Does all rap suck? Of course not... However imo it should be used as a compliment to the "music" industry, and not a corporate genre.

Let the blasting begin.

[crunchtastic]

I'm probably going to offend evryone here, but so be it.

I am amazed that the Amercican youth have embraced rap/hip hop/screw, etc, en masse. It has not only dumbed down these individules socially, but has really dumbed them down musically. Maybe I'm to old school, but when i was growing up Motown was the urban music of the day, and it took great dedication from those who wrote and performed it. It created great session writers, and producers as well. Today most urban "artist" are musical morons who haven't a clue as to properly construct or play as there seniors did.

Does all rap suck? Of course not... However imo it should be used as a compliment to the "music" industry, and not a corporate genre.

Let the blasting begin.

You raise legitimate points that don't deserve any blasting. I'm actually not surpised at all of the embrace of rap, any more than the (prolonged) embrace of hair metal or pop country. And I do consider rap to have started as a true innovation. The great rappers/DJs had a feel for music in order to really get a mix right, and many are musicans as well. You have the legacy of Chuck D, or Public Enemy, and then you have a whole lot more crap, like all musical genres. The key word is 'corporate.' Rap is a money shot among suburban white kids. Hell all kids. I'm sure lots of well meaning wannabe rap artists get repackaged, dumbed down, and sold out by the music industry, the way it's always been.

[memebag]

Every musical genre has its Beatles and its Monkees, and the Monkees will always outnumber the Beatles. Rap is no different. Some of it is innovative; the rest is just making a buck.

[editor]

Every musical genre has its Beatles and its Monkees, and the Monkees will always outnumber the Beatles. Rap is no different. Some of it is innovative; the rest is just making a buck.

We have a winner!

[Gary]

I'm actually not surpised at all of the embrace of rap, any more than the (prolonged) embrace of hair metal or pop country. And I do consider rap to have started as a true innovation. The great rappers/DJs had a feel for music in order to really get a mix right, and many are musicans as well. You have the legacy of Chuck D, or Public Enemy, and then you have a whole lot more crap, like all musical genres. The key word is 'corporate.' Rap is a money shot among suburban white kids. Hell all kids. I'm sure lots of well meaning wannabe rap artists get repackaged, dumbed down, and sold out by the music industry, the way it's always been.

Don't take this the wrong way, but whether rap was innovative or not is beside my point. Rap has done done far more injury to the talent base (Not ability) than hair metal, punk, and pop country combined. True there are various rappers who can pop out some musicianship, but to compare them to there fathers talents and demands is borderline blasphemy among most musicians.

Why do i say this? Because when the music of the last generations (Pop country, Hair metal, etc) was made, it required something other than a feel for the music. It required dedication and hard work to complete a craft. Sadly that has been falling to the wayside where rap is concerned. Remember, Many many people have rythym and an ear for music, however that doesn't make them a musician.

I don't mean to argue, but I'm pretty deep into the music industry, and I can tell you that the VAST majority of players despise what rap has done to the music industry.

Just my 2 cents.

[memebag]

Don't take this the wrong way, but whether rap was innovative or not is beside my point. Rap has done done far more injury to the talent base (Not ability) than hair metal, punk, and pop country combined. True there are various rappers who can pop out some musicianship, but to compare them to there fathers talents and demands is borderline blasphemy among most musicians.

Why do i say this? Because when the music of the last generations (Pop country, Hair metal, etc) was made, it required something other than a feel for the music. It required dedication and hard work to complete a craft. Sadly that has been falling to the wayside where rap is concerned. Remember, Many many people have rythym and an ear for music, however that doesn't make them a musician.

I don't mean to argue, but I'm pretty deep into the music industry, and I can tell you that the VAST majority of players despise what rap has done to the music industry.

Just my 2 cents.

I don't understand how a genre can "injure" a "talent base", nor do I understand why rap would be more injurious than other forms of music. The rappers with no musical ability are using tracks created by musicians with at least some musical ability. True, that musical ability may not include mastery of a specific instrument, but the move from specialized musicians to generalized producers has been going on since at least George Martin (or Les Paul) turned the studio into an instrument in its own right. How is rap any more to blame for the changes in music than a producer-centric genre like disco?

[Gary]

I don't understand how a genre can "injure" a "talent base", nor do I understand why rap would be more injurious than other forms of music. The rappers with no musical ability are using tracks created by musicians with at least some musical ability. True, that musical ability may not include mastery of a specific instrument, but the move from specialized musicians to generalized producers has been going on since at least George Martin (or Les Paul) turned the studio into an instrument in its own right. How is rap any more to blame for the changes in music than a producer-centric genre like disco?

Let me put it this way.... Rap has severly depleted the musician base, and that is not arguable if you know the industry. Also, Using session players in a studio is not the point. The point is that anyone can now call themselves an artist, and it takes very little to accomplish that now. What used to be genres of artist that wrote lyrics, played their instrument(s), formulated, and constructed a song, has given way to a genre that only requires a "supposed" poet for musical success. I make a good majority of my living doing session work, and can emphatically tell you that 95% of these guys are rediculous.

Generalized producers are also beside the point, especially using GM or LP. Martin for instance was a phenominal multi instrumentalist, and had a damn fine ear for layering. The difference here is that he had 4 guys (really 3) who were just as phenominal in their own right. McCartney alone played 8 instruments. Les paul equals the same thing.

Finally, the difference in Rap and disco is not much, however during disco's popularity the corporations did yet own the entire industry. Now they do, and those that were screaming "Disco Sucks" are now wishing for the good old days.

[memebag]

Let me put it this way.... Rap has severly depleted the musician base, and that is not arguable if you know the industry. Also, Using session players in a studio is not the point. The point is that anyone can now call themselves an artist, and it takes very little to accomplish that now. What used to be genres of artist that wrote lyrics, played their instrument(s), formulated, and constructed a song, has given way to a genre that only requires a "supposed" poet for musical success.

Hold on there. The singer/songwriter was a fairly short-lived fad that grew out of folk music in the 50s and 60s. Before that, pop songs were written by professional song writers, performed by hired musicians, sung by hired front men, produced and engineered by professional producers and engineers, all orchestrated by (for the most part) by music labels. If you're waiting for the return of the auteur in pop music, you're in for a long wait.

I make a good majority of my living doing session work, and can emphatically tell you that 95% of these guys are rediculous.

What guys?

Generalized producers are also beside the point, especially using GM or LP. Martin for instance was a phenominal multi instrumentalist, and had a damn fine ear for layering. The difference here is that he had 4 guys (really 3) who were just as phenominal in their own right. McCartney alone played 8 instruments. Les paul equals the same thing.

And lots of people producing tracks for rap artists are multi-instrumentalists. That's not the point.

Finally, the difference in Rap and disco is not much, however during disco's popularity the corporations did yet own the entire industry. Now they do, and those that were screaming "Disco Sucks" are now wishing for the good old days.

I think your memory or your knowledge of music history is faulty. Independent labels are much more successful now than they were in the 70s. That was the era of large corporate ownership of music labels. The power of the corporation in music is rapidly declining.

I still haven't seen an explanation of how rap is injuring the talent base. Can you elaborate on that?

[Gary]

Hold on there. The singer/songwriter was a fairly short-lived fad that grew out of folk music in the 50s and 60s. Before that, pop songs were written by professional song writers, performed by hired musicians, sung by hired front men, produced and engineered by professional producers and engineers, all orchestrated by (for the most part) by music labels. If you're waiting for the return of the auteur in pop music, you're in for a long wait.

What are you talking about? I never mentioned singer/songwriters for one. Secondly, where you get the idea that the 70's and eighties were soley session players and producer writers is beyond me. With the exception of corporate pop, you couldn't be any further from the truth.

What guys?

Rappers...

And lots of people producing tracks for rap artists are multi-instrumentalists. That's not the point.

Let me try this again... The music industry is being depleted of new musicians because of the nature of rap which does not require the knowledge of music theory, or the like. Again, that's a fact, and is a problem throughout the industry. Of course I guess I shouldn't complain as I make pretty decent money picking up where they can't.

I think your memory or your knowledge of music history is faulty. Independent labels are much more successful now than they were in the 70s. That was the era of large corporate ownership of music labels. The power of the corporation in music is rapidly declining.

I guess all the years I've put into the industry has clouded my thinking. Of course independent labels are a bigger deal today, that was not my point. My point is that the major distributers who fork out the big bucks for album sales, tours , merchandising, etc own what most hear. Check your charts if you don't believe me. Also, many of the so called independent labels are just as bad if not worse than many of the majors.

Case in point: My last band Stride charted in the top 50 in record sales in Japan, yet our label (an indie) screwed us beyond words. Not that this matters, but I'm reitterating the point that just because a label is an indie means nothing these days.

I still haven't seen an explanation of how rap is injuring the talent base. Can you elaborate on that?

Again, rap is injuring the musicians talent base by not requiring an "artist" to play, or learn a specific musical talent. In turn it creates "artists" that pass nothing but words (lyrics) on to the younger generation, and allows a continued laziness that is unfortunately growing. That's right I said laziness. I do this for a living memebag, and I'm not here to bash rap, but I and those that do what I do see it weekly. It's not a mirage.

Edit: Sorry I screwed up memebags quotes.

[memebag]

What are you talking about? I never mentioned singer/songwriters for one. Secondly, where you get the idea that the 70's and eighties were soley session players and producer writers is beyond me. With the exception of corporate pop, you couldn't be any further from the truth.

I'm talking about your previous post:

What used to be genres of artist that wrote lyrics, played their instrument(s), formulated, and constructed a song, has given way to a genre that only requires a "supposed" poet for musical success.

You're describing a singer/songwriter. I didn't say the 70s and 80s were solely session players. The singer/songwriter fad continued, but was replaced over time by a more traditional mode of music production.

Rappers...

So rappers are "rediculous". What did that mean?

Let me try this again... The music industry is being depleted of new musicians because of the nature of rap which does not require the knowledge of music theory, or the like. Again, that's a fact, and is a problem throughout the industry. Of course I guess I shouldn't complain as I make pretty decent money picking up where they can't.

I don't understand. Rappers don't rap over silence. They rap over music. Are you saying the music they rap over doesn't require a knowledge of music theory? Are you saying it requires less knowledge of music theory than other genres? I can't agree with that. The music is just as complex from a music theory standpoint, if not moreso, than other popular genres.

Case in point: My last band Stride charted in the top 50 in record sales in Japan, yet our label (an indie) screwed us beyond words. Not that this matters, but I'm reitterating the point that just because a label is an indie means nothing these days.

But your point was that the difference between disco and rap (when asked about which is more to blame for the changes in music production) was that disco was made in an era before corporations controlled music. I assumed you meant large corporations like Phillips and Kinney National. Large corporations are divesting themselves of music labels as the CD business dies. The 70s were the height of multinational ownership of music labels.

Again, rap is injuring the musicians talent base by not requiring an "artist" to play, or learn a specific musical talent. In turn it creates "artists" that pass nothing but words (lyrics) on to the younger generation, and allows a continued laziness that is unfortunately growing. That's right I said laziness. I do this for a living memebag, and I'm not here to bash rap, but I and those that do what I do see it weekly. It's not a mirage.

You're talking about the rappers, not the people who write the music. No genre (outside folk, I think) has required a singer or lyricist to learn to play a musical instrument. Pop music in general has been relying less and less on individual virtuosity since rock and roll first appeared in the 50s. Rap is nothing special in this regard.

[RedScare]

While I understand where Gary is going, I disagree that Rap is the cause of the problem. Rap is not injuring the talent base. However, it may be diluting it. If not for Rap, these "musicians" would not be in the talent base at all. They would not be rock or jazz musicians, they would be in another line of work. There would still be the same number of musicians, only fewer Rap artists.

Still, Rap is not the illness. It is a symptom of the illness. Gary's post suggests that if not for Rap, other music genres would be better. This is not the case. The other types of music would STILL be bad without Rap. When I turn on the radio and hear horrible "alternative" music, or always bad Pop or Grunge or terrible Metal, it is not Rap's fault that these non-Rap musicians are unlistenable. It is the fault of the musicians, or the corporate music industry, or radio consolidation, or Americans with poor music tastes....but not Rap. Rap is merely another example of bad music produced by a failed industry.

One place where one COULD make the argument that Rap has ruined the music is Reggae, Rap's birthplace. Rap has so taken over Reggae, that Reggae has essentially become Rap to a Carribean beat. But, here again, one cannot really blame Rap. Music gives the people what they want. If the majority of Reggae fans like Rap infused Reggae, that is what the artists will give them. Now, whether the fans wanted it, or the corporate studios decided they wanted it, can be debated. But, that is what we get....or at least that is what those who buy the music get. Me, I've been playing my old stuff for quite a while now. The music industry bigwigs haven't been able to judge good music for many years now.