Indecisive Houstonians Crying "Urban, But W/O Townhomes"

[sowanome]

I'm tired of hearing Houstonians, especially those on this board, crying about wanting an urban feel, but opposing the townhome " cookie-cutter" trend that is going on! For example, if you look in the suburbs or back to the late 70's, 2 out of every 5 homes on each street have identical floorplans and layouts. In some instances they have the same color/siding/bricking! How is this different than what's going on with the inner loop townhomes? How is this different than what has happened to other urban cities/areas across america?

It's not any different! It's just that Texas is one of the last places for it to occur!!!! For those of you who have traveled outside of Texas or the states, please recall how in most urban areas you will look down a block and see a row of identical townhomes/two-flats/duplexes/brownstones, etc. and when it comes to Houston it is called COOKIE CUTTER and UNORIGINAL! However in NYC, San Fran, Chicago this isn't cookie cutter. Residents in these areas understand what's important, and its location! Who cares about how unoriginal it looks from the outside, because you don't live outside of a home! Now, I'm not saying for people to occupy slums and ugly homes in order to have a great location, but please understand the foundation of real estate.

Lesson #1: Real Estate 101: LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION (There is no mention about architecture/aesthetic appeal!!!)

Lesson #2: economics tell the truth! Price is a function of Supply and Demand (Ex. Property values in select portions of the inner loop nearly tripled over a 5 year span).

Lesson #3: 5 to 6 years ago, people thought the townhome trend wasn't going to last! Not only did it last, but it has risen to another level! (Ex. In the Rice military area you'd be lucky to find a place to purchase that has a small backyard [20x20] and a private driveway for less than $320k and yes I searched through HAR for that fact). Again, this is a result of SUPPLY and DEMAND. Let's not forget about the places selling above the $400K mark!

Lesson #4: Houstonians (esp. those over the age of 40) need to understand that the days of an affordable single family within the better areas of the inner loop are a thing of the past! Sorry .... A single family home is reserved for those in the highest tax bracket! Unless you want to live in the ever transitioning, yet victorian styled historic heights area! Oh, I almost forgot that the Heights is becoming filled with townhomes also! Hurry fast or you'll be another HAIF'er complaining about the cookie cutter that you can't afford!

Lesson #5: Some townhomes were cheaply built and many builders made mistakes! However, when economics are on your side you can afford to make mistakes, b/c the land (supply) is very precious (fixed) and the demand (population/potential buyers) is consistently increasing! ( again, price = function of supply and demand) Who wants to commute more than an hour a day? For the homes that were cheaply built in the suburbs..............Who knows?

Lesson #6: The proof is in front of us..... Who'd ever thought that townhomes in Houston would ever sell for more than $500K? (Check HAR!)

Lesson #7: This isn't a joke, it's a fair warning to those who constantly discredit the yuppies, empty nesters and other intelligent townhome buyers in the inner loop areas! Those buyers are going to be laughing to the bank after the western portion of the inner loop is completed with 2727 Kirby, Regent Square, High Street, The Pavillions, River Oaks Shopping Center, Washington Avenue, The Heights, Midtown, Rice Military, Memorial Heights, etc....

Lesson #8: The year 2010, when much of the proposed mixed used in Houston should be complete, isn't far away! Trust me, if you want to buy in the inner loop, Buy sooner than later!!! I'm doing it right now! The national mkt. doesn't apply to the majority of this area! (Last year, I bought a place with a small yard in the Rice Military area. I'm trying to buy another place between west u. and memorial park, and it'll cost at least $320k. One bedrooms are the worst >>> I can't find anything less than $100K in the 77007 area code, not to mention river oaks and west U.) One of my former coworkers had the nerve to ask me why I bought a townhome??? WTF can you buy in the inner loop that's not a bungalow and is less than $350k in a nice area???? HA HA ( I introduced her to HAR and she never commented on the subject again. Poor girl thought she could get a nice place for less than $200K without living in a highrise/midrise) 3bd/3bath = 3 floors= inner loop = $300K

Lesson #9 : I'm telling the truth! Just look at the cities I mentioned......check HAR, etc......there are two bedrooms in the inner loop that more expensive than a lot of four bedroom homes in the suburbs..

[Guest danax]

For those of you who have traveled outside of Texas or the states, please recall how in most urban areas you will look down a block and see a row of identical townhomes/two-flats/duplexes/brownstones, etc. and when it comes to Houston it is called COOKIE CUTTER and UNORIGINAL! However in NYC, San Fran, Chicago this isn't cookie cutter.

A co-worker just came back from a weekend staying with her friend in her Chicago suburb townhouse. She commented how the townhouses all looked exactly the same.

I see a lot of variety actually in the townhouse architecture around town. What is happening is that the eclectic townhome architecture is replacing the older housing stock that tended to look fairly uniform, but not as uniform as the modern suburban subdivisions. The result is a very diverse collection of townhouse clusters, since each builder only creates a handful at a time in a given area.

I personally like the effect and find the townhouses to be vehicles for some fairly interesting and creative architecture. When in history have we had roof decks on single family housing, for example? The collective attempt to attract the so-called yuppie with "hip" designs and skyline views has driven the trend toward the rectangular architecture which keeps evolving and I think will stand the test of time as a unique style that will be appreciated in the future as very, "turn of the century", and Houston will be full of this style.

Never in the history of the American city has there been such a mass, privately driven renewal of the inner city areas, and I think it's a very exciting time. It's only a matter of time before the entire inner loop housing stock becomes filled mostly with townhomes and mid/high rise apartments/condos, interspersed with restored historic homes and the old, run down residential and industrial nabes are the only places where the new construction can happen. The townhouse has found a solid place in our era due to its fitting the busy lives of the ever-increasing childless city dwellers and I don't see that changing anytime soon, although if oil gets cheap again, we could see the trend slow to a crawl.

[musicman]

it is all about personal perference. if you like coming home to something like this. that is your preference. it isn't mine. i don't believe Houstonians are indecisive. just sounds like you're trying to justify your purchase to others which is unfortunate. the reason so many of the same thing are being built is to save the builder money so they can maximize their profit. IMO i don't see a "problem". we all have our preferences.

let's just hope there's not a train nearby or we'll be reading another thread how trains have to be removed from the COH.

[crunchtastic]

Let me see if I got this straight:

Townhomes in the inner loop are expensive.

More expensive townhomes in the inner loop are being built.

You bought one. Good for you. I'm sure you'll let us know when you're ready to go laughing to the bank.

[feufoma]

it is all about personal perference. if you like coming home to something like this. that is your preference. it isn't mine. i don't believe Houstonians are indecisive. just sounds like you're trying to justify your purchase to others which is unfortunate. the reason so many of the same thing are being built is to save the builder money so they can maximize their profit. IMO i don't see a "problem". we all have our preferences.

let's just hope there's not a train nearby or we'll be reading another thread how trains have to be removed from the COH.

Yes, you're absolutely correct. I bought an inner loop townhome just a couple of months before meeting my future wife, who has a house in Kingwood. We chose to live in my home when we got married and had a child instead of dealing with the ridiculous commute from Kingwood to DT and UT. Now my wife's commute is non-existent and mine is 10 minutes tops in morning and afternoon. We don't have a yard but we've got nearby parks for our son to enjoy. It is all about preferences. It's nice to see that in Houston we finally have some options to fit various preferences! Plus, it's nice to lease my wife's house out to someone with a different preference and reap the tax benefits and additional income! Cheers...

[Vertigo58]

Yes, you're absolutely correct. I bought an inner loop townhome just a couple of months before meeting my future wife, who has a house in Kingwood. We chose to live in my home when we got married and had a child instead of dealing with the ridiculous commute from Kingwood to DT and UT. Now my wife's commute is non-existent and mine is 10 minutes tops in morning and afternoon. We don't have a yard but we've got nearby parks for our son to enjoy. It is all about preferences. It's nice to see that in Houston we finally have some options to fit various preferences! Plus, it's nice to lease my wife's house out to someone with a different preference and reap the tax benefits and additional income! Cheers...

So it works well depending on each individual's needs. I see no argument at all.

I beleive its the appearance & cramped tight spots of the fast built ones that irk some people. The photo above is so cold and lifeless. I mean it reminds one of a prison or the concentration camps from Shindler's List, etc. Very chilling.

[MidtownCoog]

My beef with the townhome builders is the sloppy felling of trees that could be saved, rougue street cutting for utilities, and adequate space for parking.

If you don't pay attention the designs may look cookie-cutter, but I see a wide range out there.

Feufoma, did you tell your wife she was ridiculous for living in Kingwood and working in the city before or after you were married ;-)

[memebag]

Once all the cheap, old houses are torn down and replaced with beautiful, sturdy, new townhomes, where are the people who clean them and mow the yards going to live? Or will we have robots for that?

[Guest danax]

I beleive its the appearance & cramped tight spots of the fast built ones that irk some people. The photo above is so cold and lifeless. I mean it reminds one of a prison or the concentration camps from Shindler's List, etc. Very chilling.

The problem with the pic above is that the builder left no place for greenery. The best that the above scene could hope for would be replacing those sorry shrubs with some bamboo. Being cramped like that is inevitable though, as it is in other large cities.

That particular cluster must sound like a machine gun massacre in a hailstorm though.

[MidtownCoog]

Well you can blame the developers for lack of landscaping, but the schmucks who buy these could also do somethign about it. Request it from the builder or plant it yourself.

When I lived in a Midtown townhome I was the unoffical landscape committee president. The lack of organized home owner associations requires the residents to step it up.

We left a little greenery in Midtown that I still drive by today to check on. It still looks pretty nice.

[Vertigo58]

The problem with the pic above is that the builder left no place for greenery. The best that the above scene could hope for would be replacing those sorry shrubs with some bamboo. Being cramped like that is inevitable though, as it is in other large cities.

That particular cluster must sound like a machine gun massacre in a hailstorm though.

Right, builder needs to include a horticulterist on his/her team.

That even looks like the Gestapo (green police) coming down the street. Yikes! Back to the attic I go!

[TheNiche]

Once all the cheap, old houses are torn down and replaced with beautiful, sturdy, new townhomes, where are the people who clean them and mow the yards going to live? Or will we have robots for that?

Check your logic. The higher densities that townhomes provide allow for a greater percentage of householders that want to live in the urban core to actually live there. If no townhomes were built, there'd still be about the same number of householders wanting to live in the urban core but many fewer housing units. What do you think would happen to used home prices in that case?

If present-day experience is any indication, the folks that service townhomes will drive, carpool, or take the bus.

[memebag]

Check your logic. The higher densities that townhomes provide allow for a greater percentage of householders that want to live in the urban core to actually live there. If no townhomes were built, there'd still be about the same number of householders wanting to live in the urban core but many fewer housing units. What do you think would happen to used home prices in that case?

There are a lot of "householders" who don't want to live in the neighborhoods where their maids and yard service people live, until those neighborhoods are gentrified with townhomes.

If present-day experience is any indication, the folks that service townhomes will drive, carpool, or take the bus.

Drive, carpool or bus from where? Is there a low cost housing project out past Katy I don't know about?

[jgriff]

I live in the townhome community pictured above. Of course this is in the Memorial Villages area, not inside the loop. It is possbile to build complexes with good landscaping but it's expensive. We pay a $365 a month maintinence fee to take care of the grounds. There are a lot of people out there who will not buy a townhome with that kind of fee. It just boils down to economics. Good landscaping and design is nice but it comes at a cost.

Go look at the townhome listings in the tree covered area of Sunset Blvd. They go for $1mil. If you want trees and good design you're going to have to pay for it.

[sevfiv]

I would hope it's reasonable to leave an area for plants or have some sort of thoughtful design without paying an exorbitant amount...not that all residents would keep things up.

As far as paying $365 a month to maintain some St. Augustine, monkey grass, pine needles, and some shrubs, I definitely see your point.

[jgriff]

Drive, carpool or bus from where? Is there a low cost housing project out past Katy I don't know about?

I drive through Piney Point and Bunker Hill everyday. The streets are lined with maids waiting at the bus stops.

I would hope it's reasonable to leave an area for plants or have some sort of thoughtful design without paying an exorbitant amount...not that all residents would keep things up.As far as paying $365 a month to upkeep some St. Augustine, monkey grass, pine needles, and some shrubs, I definitely see your point.

There's also a lake, tennis courts, Club house, etc... and a full time staff of a dozen or so. The fee also pays for upkeep on the exterior, cable, sewer, and garbage. But yes, some people want the most square footage they can get for a payment so this kind of stuff is not important to them.

[memebag]

I drive through Piney Point and Bunker Hill everyday. The streets are lined with maids waiting at the bus stops.

That wasn't the question. Yes, they take the bus home. Where will those homes be after they are replaced by upscale townhomes?

[sevfiv]

There's also a lake, tennis courts, Club house, etc... and a full time staff of a dozen or so. The fee also pays for upkeep on the exterior, cable, sewer, and garbage. But yes, some people want the most square footage they can get for a payment so this kind of stuff is not important to them.

That makes sense with the other things integrated.

I just wish, imo, that there was some sort of forethought about the surrounding environment without shooting fees through the roof.

Sorry about the edit - something went screwy.

[TheNiche]

There are a lot of "householders" who don't want to live in the neighborhoods where their maids and yard service people live, until those neighborhoods are gentrified with townhomes.

So what you're saying is that there is initially high enough demand from households to support densification, and that once densification takes place, with townhomes being nearly ubiquitous, the pool of prospective buyers becomes even larger? I'd agree with that.

But I wouldn't agree that something like a demolition ban would preserve an older stock of inexpensive housing. It just goes contrary to the laws of supply and demand.

Drive, carpool or bus from where? Is there a low cost housing project out past Katy I don't know about?

Super Neighborhoods numbers: 84,85,11,86,5,3,4,5,6,13,45,46,47,49,45,50,54,53,58,57,52,55,51,56,57,65,70,69,6

,71,72,73,75,76,79,77,40,38,37,39,36,30,29,26,27, and 25.

Also, not shown: Pasadena.

[TheNiche]

I live in the townhome community pictured above. Of course this is in the Memorial Villages area, not inside the loop. It is possbile to build complexes with good landscaping but it's expensive. We pay a $365 a month maintinence fee to take care of the grounds. There are a lot of people out there who will not buy a townhome with that kind of fee. It just boils down to economics. Good landscaping and design is nice but it comes at a cost.

Go look at the townhome listings in the tree covered area of Sunset Blvd. They go for $1mil. If you want trees and good design you're going to have to pay for it.

Good landscaping not only costs money to maintain, but also to develop in the first place. With land prices as they are, it just doesn't make sense to allocate very much open space. Most townhome buyers would just rather have a few more neighbors than have to absorb the land cost themselves and then have to pay money for maintenance on top of that.

[musicman]

I live in the townhome community pictured above. Of course this is in the Memorial Villages area, not inside the loop. It is possbile to build complexes with good landscaping but it's expensive. We pay a $365 a month maintinence fee to take care of the grounds. There are a lot of people out there who will not buy a townhome with that kind of fee. It just boils down to economics. Good landscaping and design is nice but it comes at a cost.

i know these well. great forested views. those who cry "urban" would have a problem because they aren't dense enough.

[jgriff]

That wasn't the question. Yes, they take the bus home. Where will those homes be after they are replaced by upscale townhomes?

The answer is ... somewhere they can get to on a bus.

There are plenty of places these people can live. If you're a maid you may not be able to live in some of the more expensive areas of Houston. That's just the way it is. I don't feel bad for them, I can't live there either.

[tanith27]

Talking about cities that are cookie cutter, but still manage to pull it off, look at Paris. Its so easy to get lost in that city because its hard to differentiate one building from another. But its still a gorgeous city that has done well to balance architecture, art, style, and greenspaces into an area that is sought after and visited by more people than anywhere else in the world.

[memebag]

The answer is ... somewhere they can get to on a bus.

So ... La Grange? How far out are we going to push cheap housing?

[jgriff]

i know these well. great forested views. those who cry "urban" would have a problem because they aren't dense enough.

The funny thing is that living in these spread out townhomes with lots of grounds in a low density nieghborhood I can still walk to the grocery store, starbucks, several restaraunts, a bank, a dentist and a bunch of other shops if I want to. It's a nice shaded walk covered with trees and no homeless in sight.

I think I just talked myself out of moving to midtown...

[musicman]

I think I just talked myself out of moving to midtown...

LOL no twisted arms or anything either.

[jgriff]

So ... La Grange? How far out are we going to push cheap housing?

I assure you there are plenty of cheap apartments on the southwest side of town. Watch the news there is usually a report from one of their parking lots every night.

[memebag]

I assure you there are plenty of cheap apartments on the southwest side of town. Watch the news there is usually a report from one of their parking lots every night.

So we won't replace those cheap apartments with beautiful townhomes?

[jgriff]

So we won't replace those cheap apartments with beautiful townhomes?

I sure hope so, that would be great. We'd cut down on crime. Unfortunatley I don't think the townhome boom will make it out that far for many many more years.

I'm really not sure what we're talking about here anymore. Are we really discussing that townhomes are going to displace the homes where maids live so that they won't be able to get to work? Does anyone seriously think this is a big problem? It's not really a big concern of mine. If this is really a big problem what would you propose as a solution?

[memebag]

I sure hope so, that would be great. We'd cut down on crime. Unfortunatley I don't think the townhome boom will make it out that far for many many more years.

Aha! Its the kind of building that's responsible for crime! Problem solved!

I'm really not sure what we're talking about here anymore. Are we really discussing that townhomes are going to displace the homes where maids live so that they won't be able to get to work? Does anyone seriously think this is a big problem?

Yes, some people think this is a big problem.

It's not really a big concern of mine. If this is really a big problem what would you propose as a solution?

How about maintaining cheap housing close to town?