Here Comes METRO

[Tiko]

From yesterday's Chronicle:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...an/5076637.html

I believe this is the old line running through the Heights around 8th Street. It's marked on this map (http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/arc/maps/images/map0435.jpg) as "M,K&T Ry", so that matches the article.

So much for our long-promised Hike 'n Bike.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Tiko

[Guest danax]

From yesterday's Chronicle:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...an/5076637.html

I believe this is the old line running through the Heights around 8th Street. It's marked on this maps as "M,K&T Ry" so that matches the article.

So much for our long-promised Hike 'n Bike.

The article says that Metro will consider buying it whereas City of Houston has signed a letter of intent to buy it for the hike and bike. Does the letter of intent mean that the City has first dibs in this case if they still want it?

If Metro gets it, then it's one of those tradeoffs that benefits the "greater good" at the expense of a smaller group. It will be interesting to see the NIMBY activity in the Heights if Metro starts rolling with their plans there.

[musicman]

sounds like METRO/UP dilemma has finally become evident to METRO.

It will be interesting to see the NIMBY activity in the Heights if Metro starts rolling with their plans there.

You got it! Red? Edited August 23, 2007 by musicman

[sunsets]

Ha! You people think Afton Oaks was bad? Just wait....

I confess to being conflicted. No, I would rather not have a commuter line tearing through the neighborhood, but the 290 situation is terrible and not going to get any better, and we really do need a commuter rail system in Houston. Are the trains going to be like the Dallas - Ft. Worth trains? Those seemed quiet, at least.

Now that I think about it, I would much rather have a single rail line running on an already plotted tract of land than the constant threat of ever-widening highways that slowly eat away the neighborhood from all sides.

[musicman]

Now that I think about it, I would much rather have a single rail line running on an already plotted tract of land than the constant threat of ever-widening highways that slowly eat away the neighborhood from all sides.

not quite sure if most would agree. i'm sure the fans will need to be sanitized in the near future particularly in councilmember garcia's office.

[WesternGulf]

not quite sure if most would agree.

LOL. Figures. I knew I could count on you. Why would most not agree? I am all for hearing both sides but sometimes it seems like these comments are used solely to spark conversation.

[RedScare]

While my preference would be for a light rail line along that stretch of land, with stops at Target, 6th and Columbia, Yale at 7th, and Northwest Mall, I could live with commuter rail, IF they put a stop in the Heights. Again, my preference would be 6th at Columbia. However, they could probably get a bigger parcel of land at Yale and 7th. Plus, they already have bus service up and down Yale/Heights. It would be easy to serve a commuter rail station there.

If they are just going to run a line through with no stop, then I'd rather hold out for LRT, or the bike trail.

[musicman]

LOL. Figures. I knew I could count on you. Why would most not agree? I am all for hearing both sides but sometimes it seems like these comments are used solely to spark conversation.

i will oblige. LOL heights area residents have always been vocal about something. apartments, cell phone towers, can't walk my dog on a formerly empty lot anymore, etc. i'll bet a train going through the middle of the hood will sure stir up something, especially if it doesn't serve the area. this line was taken out because of complaints. the most vocal will be those in the immediate area like red, tmariar and others.

I think this is tacit admission by METRO that UP will hold their ground when it comes to giving up rail space on their line. METRO's proposed intermodal station sure won't be on solid ground unless there are lines running to it.

Edited August 23, 2007 by musicman

[Tiko]

Could someone edu-me-cate me in the difference between light rail and commuter rail? I'm guessing light is like the current Metro lines downtown, and commuter is something like a passenger train? If they're going to put a commuter line, won't they have to buy up and demolish about 10-15 homes along the line? Some of the houses have gotten awfully close to the old rail line.

[Porchman]

Exactly, Tiko

[ToryGattis]

Christof's take:

http://www.ctchouston.org/blogs/christof/2...l-up-for-grabs/

[musicman]

Could someone edu-me-cate me in the difference between light rail and commuter rail? I'm guessing light is like the current Metro lines downtown, and commuter is something like a passenger train? If they're going to put a commuter line, won't they have to buy up and demolish about 10-15 homes along the line? Some of the houses have gotten awfully close to the old rail line.

commuter rail will be one way....towards town AM and away PM.

[Tiko]

commuter rail will be one way....towards town AM and away PM.

They'll have so many trains that they'll just accumulate them at either end and they won't circulate? But my point was that if it's a full-size train, that the houses are too close anyway even if there's only one line.

There's an old rail line crossing the bayou at Yale. Wish they could turn down there and feed into the UP line. Or take the Metro north line and feed over into Hempstead using the line around 34th - that one doesn't seem to get nearly as much traffic as the Washington line.

[Trae]

How many trains will there be? Just one? I don't see what the problem is, if there is a stop in the Heights. I like how Houston is built though. Have the light rail in the core areas, but commuter rail out to the suburbs. Works much faster than having light rail out to say, Sugar Land (like Dallas' light rail). Cheaper that way.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Trae

[Porchman]

commuter rail will be one way....towards town AM and away PM.

The 290 Passenger Rail Coalition definition:

"Commuter Rail

[musicman]

They'll have so many trains that they'll just accumulate them at either end and they won't circulate?

most that i've seen are one way. since this is a new plan we'll have to wait for specifics.

[Porchman]

most that i've seen are one way. since this is a new plan we'll have to wait for specifics.

Metrarail (Chicago), MBTA Rail (Boston), CalTrain (SF), are all two-way, am and pm.

So is the MARC (Baltimore-DC), and the TRE (DFW), but those are really hub-to-hub.

It certainly will be interesting to see how Metro develops its logistics.

[musicman]

Metrarail (Chicago), MBTA Rail (Boston), CalTrain (SF), are all two-way, am and pm.

So is the MARC (Baltimore-DC), and the TRE (DFW), but those are really hub-to-hub.

It certainly will be interesting to see how Metro develops its logistics.

the pitch you posted shows one track but it looks like a vision vs something definitive.

[Urbannomad]

I don't want to offend anyone, but I REALLY hope this happens. It's great for everyone, except those who live next to the line... sorry, but for what it's worth I'd be pissed if it were my house too. I completely agree that I would rather see rail (which is relatively small) over ever-widening and new freeways. Just look at the katy freeway and others, they destroy the look of and "separates" the city... pretty soon the city inside the loop will be just freeways at this rate. I would hate to see them put a highway through the heights which I'm sure they will eventually try when the Hempstead expansion is no longer enough. At least a commuter train can be run only at times it's needed... whereas a 10 lane highway is going to be an eyesore day and night.

Interesting article:

http://www.apta.com/research/info/briefings/briefing_1.cfm

Obviously, there is the chance for bias here as in all reports... so I can only speak for Salt Lake City and Washington DC, two places I've lived with rail, where this was true. Salt Lake actually uses the rail to revitalize older, run down areas that now are seeing new TOD developments and a renewed interest in the homes in those areas, which is of course causing a rapid increase in property values. The exception being if the rail is in your back yard and there isn't a stop for 2+ miles, obviously that is useless. But so long as you are within a reasonable distance to a stop, that can definitely increase the desirability of your property from my experience. Worst, or best case, depending on how you see it; if you are near a stop and don't like it, odds are given enough time a developer will buy your property for a pretty penny to build a high dollar TOD... that is if the NIMBY's don't complain too much.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Urbannomad

[Krol]

This is full blown rail. Not light rail with frequent stops. It will not stop in the Heights because it is too close to the ending point downtown. There isn't enough time for this big muther to get back up to speed if it stops in the Heights. These trains will just blow through here without a care. You betcha the residents on that abandoned line have something to worry about as does the rest of the Heights, which will be destroyed by this.

Remember several years ago when we all awoke on Thanksgiving morning to a story in the Heights/Neartown section about rail coming through the Heights? It ignited a firestorm of anger and fear. Mayor White said everyone could stand down cause it wasn't going to happen.

[sunsets]

Destroyed is a rather strong word to use in this case.

Quality of life and value of property issues will certainly arise, but I doubt the neighborhood will be destroyed.

So far it's managed to survive I-45 and I-10, which are far worse, in my opinion.

[Urbannomad]

Call me crazy but I'm just not too worried about this destroying the neighborhood. The relatively few immediate neighbors may suffer, but the benefits to the entire houston area far out way the negative impact on just a few... I hate to say that but it's true just like with freeway widening... etc. My brother lives by the purple line commuter rail in Boston and it's just simply not that bad. I have to wonder if most people in Houston have ever even been near a commuter rail to know what it's really like. It can be somewhat loud in the mornings and evenings during the week, but other than those times you would never know it's there. And I'd hardly say it's full blown rail, while CRT is quite a bit louder than LRT it's nothing compared to "real" rail and the trains are MUCH shorter and carry lighter loads than freight trains so the noise is shorter and less as well.

I do feel bad for those directly on the line, but to be fair they knew, or should have known, that buying a house near a railroad ROW could mean future rail development, like like those who buy right next to the freeway and people just like myself who bought a home in the 100 yr floodplain. I sure hope a giant flood never comes, but if it does I knew that potential existed ahead of time. Not that that would make me feel any better about it.

[tmariar]

Just saw this thread. Wow. I have trouble even envisioning a train running there. The right of way cuts right through interior blocks of the neighborhood, at a diagonal.

Yeah, I think I'm a little closer than Red, though I'm still not right next to the ROW - I'm more than a block away. I bought my house in the late '90's. For what it's worth, my understanding from the research I did then was that the city was planning to build a bike trial there, and I believe that was my neighbors' understanding as well.

Thanks for the heads-up - I'm going to have to learn more.

I'll try to add a picture showing where the ROW (the red line) runs through this area of the Heights. The red dot is Onion Creek, if that helps anyone visualize it better.

Edited August 24, 2007 by tmariar

[Urbannomad]

The article in my opinion didn't say too much. Maybe I just can't read between the lines, but it didn't sound like this was a "strong possibility"... maybe more like just a possibility. It would make sense given the planned 290/hempstead highway expansion, but from what I've read commuter rail along hempstead is still just a big maybe as well. Does anyone have any "inside" info or at least more info about the seriousness of this? Because right now this all seems like speculation. Personally, I'd like to see it happen, but I'm just curious as to probability.

The loud music/free for all parking/drunks are what would keep me from buying a house in that area more than anything else. If you like about the area CRT should just add to the "urban" appeal.

[Trae]

Regardless, Houston needs to step its ass up in the transportation department. We need more commuter rail.

[Guest Marty]

Is this the same story that you are talking about?

Metro hits brakes after being told of city bike trail plan

Transit agency board intended to vote on a land buy for commuter rail

The Metropolitan Transit Authority shelved a planned vote Thursday to buy a former freight rail bed for commuter rail, after learning

[Trae]

Is there another route that METRO could take?

[VicMan]

Why not integrate the bike path with the station?

If anything, having bike racks at a station would be a wonderful idea.

A Heights station would be great - Although for convenience for NW Houston commuters, not ALL trains would stop at the Heights.

[Guest Marty]

I guess it is the right story, nothing but a bunch of con artist/bums.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Marty

[Double L]

If you have to build a commuter rail through the Heights this could be one of the best locations because it's so close to I-10 anyways, that is allready a noisy neighborhood. I agree with Vicman, lets find a way to do both the rail and the bike trails.

Be careful what you wish for guys, you just might get it all.