The Highway 59

[ssullivan]

Are we talking about compromising Montrose's throughput or shine? As in, is it not going to handle the traffic flow originally spec'd for or just less glamore in the design?

My argument is only against slimming down throughput for this secondary artery. I'm not referencing aesthetics at all.

It's just asthetics. The Montrose bridge will still have the same traffic capacity as it would have had a fancier bridge been built.

I'm not totally sure about the neighborhood insisting the Graustark bridge be built. I've also read from some sources a couple of years ago that the neighborhood was proposing to give up the Graustark bridge if it meant that Montrose got a bridge with a unique design. In that case it was TxDOT wanting the Graustark bridge. I'll do a search and see what I can find when I get home this evening.

[sprocket]

On a halfway-related topic, is the 610 west loop bridge over 59 going to be redone any time, or will the fancy new freeway trickle through the decrepit old bridge?

[LTAWACS]

I'm sure a lot of you have driven the newly re-opened, under-constuction Southwest Fwy. northbound. It looks like it's going to be a great stretch of freeway. Below grade, more chrome bridges, extensively landscaped soundwalls. On the other hand, the Eastex portion is your basic concrete pig.

Just wondering out loud, will all freeways in the future be redone with this much attention to aesthetics or is this just an example of Montrose and the Museum District's clout as opposed to the hoods that the Eastex runs through?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's clout. nothing more. nothing less.

[MidtownCoog]

The Eastex is beautiful!

Obvisously you don't drive it much.

And that's a good thing.

[kjb434]

Yes,

The Eastex is quite beautiful. Whenever I get to drive on I think this is what all major freeways should be like. It's very graceful the way it rolls over the cross streets and the gentle grades allow higher speeds to be used. The sheer size and presence of it when you are driving is pretty awesome.

[MidtownCoog]

You summed it up perfectly. I can get from BW8 to downtown in 15 minutes outside of rush hour.

And rush hour is even a breeze.

It does have a couple of optical illusions that slows traffic. It's almost as if they are by design.

[kjb434]

What are they?

I know some early highway concepts in urban areas would do some interesting things to force people to slow down and be more cautious. I don't know how much it is used today. The way Eastex is setup it's like it is built for speed.

[MidtownCoog]

The curves at Little York and Aldine Mail Route make it appear there is a backup, but it's just the flow of traffic moving. It makes people slow down for no reason with medium traffic.

The other one is really a trip, but by accident. Where 59 north goes over I-10. The I-10 east traffic looks like its backed up on 59.

This one really threw me off one day.

[DaTrain]

On a halfway-related topic, is the 610 west loop bridge over 59 going to be redone any time, or will the fancy new freeway trickle through the decrepit old bridge?

Fancy new freeway? I don't remember hearin such a thing, and if you're talking about SW Fwy than that's been that way since the early 90s. Now about the West Loop Bridge, I heard they were supposed to strengthen the support collums in addition to attaching the new to-and-fro Westheimer bridge ramps and replacing the original guardrails with ugly concrete guardrails on the sides of the main lanes.

[Captain Impossible]

North Central Freeway

It's North Central Expressway.

But no, it wouldn't look that good going south.

[Guest danax]

I know I'm not the only one who's thought that the beautiful new submerged section of the 59 is a real traffic disaster. I assumed, like many of us, that traffic would actually improve once construction was finished. I'm no traffic engineer so I'll assume that they did the best they could with what they had to work with but we've got an unfortunate situation where the fast lanes turn into the Downtown exit lanes, which are usually flowing smoothly, right alongside the middle through lanes, which are often in an L.A.-like bumper bundle.

Along with the newbies who get trapped about to exit downtown when they want to continue north, such a differential pressure between lanes leads to the inevitable lane lizards scampering up to the front of the line, followed by a string of henchmen suddenly emboldened by one another, who all selfishly stop traffic in order to dart in the most advantageous gap or, if they meet collective resistance from the angry mob, put on their best, "oh, gee, I'm such a nice person, would you please let me cut in" face as they blinker-beg their way into a superior position at the expense of the more cooperative members of society.

At least the dreary passage is visually pleasing. I like how the ivy is covering the walls and it looks like a different plant is trying to hang down from above. Purple Lantana cascading down would've been beautiful. Maybe they considered that but realized the butterflies would've caused rubbernecking and accidents.

[TheNiche]

I assumed, like many of us, that traffic would actually improve once construction was finished. I'm no traffic engineer so I'll assume that they did the best they could with what they had to work with...

Assume nothing.

I met a woman at an industry event several months ago who used to be a TXDoT engineer working the 59/527 project. She bailed out with state retirement when things got too heavy and is now in the private sector. She told me about how the higher-ups, responding to the even-higher-ups that were responding to grassroots political pressures (i.e. a monetary bribe), took the data provided by A&M's Texas Transportation Institute and permanently altered it so as to produce the design outcome that was ultimately implemented.

[ssullivan]

It was pretty much a given that traffic would not improve with this project, because it did nothing to address to biggest cause of the traffic jam on the northbound lanes -- the narrowing of 59 to three lanes where 527 splits off, followed by only two lanes going through on 59 when it hits the interchange with 288 and 45. No real capacity was added to 59 in this project. The only traffic improvement out of this whole project, at least for northbound traffic, is that buses and carpools in the HOV lane don't get caught in the mess. Other than that, the northbound side of the freeway is still a mess for most drivers during the day Monday-Friday.

[Guest danax]

Assume nothing.

I met a woman at an industry event several months ago who used to be a TXDoT engineer working the 59/527 project. She bailed out with state retirement when things got too heavy and is now in the private sector. She told me about how the higher-ups, responding to the even-higher-ups that were responding to grassroots political pressures (i.e. a monetary bribe), took the data provided by A&M's Texas Transportation Institute and permanently altered it so as to produce the design outcome that was ultimately implemented.

Sounds like what's happening to the Richmond line.

[musicman]

I know I'm not the only one who's thought that the beautiful new submerged section of the 59 is a real traffic disaster. I assumed, like many of us, that traffic would actually improve once construction was finished. I'm no traffic engineer so I'll assume that they did the best they could with what they had to work with but we've got an unfortunate situation where the fast lanes turn into the Downtown exit lanes, which are usually flowing smoothly, right alongside the middle through lanes, which are often in an L.A.-like bumper bundle.

Along with the newbies who get trapped about to exit downtown when they want to continue north, such a differential pressure between lanes leads to the inevitable lane lizards scampering up to the front of the line, followed by a string of henchmen suddenly emboldened by one another, who all selfishly stop traffic in order to dart in the most advantageous gap or, if they meet collective resistance from the angry mob, put on their best, "oh, gee, I'm such a nice person, would you please let me cut in" face as they blinker-beg their way into a superior position at the expense of the more cooperative members of society.

I"ve definitely seen improvement. The other day I had the opportunity to take it during rush hour and I made if from Gulfgate to the HBU area in 30 mins. not bad for rush hr. The improvements were only designed from the burbs to Downtown. There used to be multiple areas where lanes merged in close proximity. Those have been eliminated currently. Now everyone has their own lane as they leave downtown, including the HOV lane.

I do like the Main st exit. However I don't like how the streets in the flower shop area have been rerouted. Last Thurday morning, not 1,2 but 3 vehicles made an illegal left at Blodgett when exiting 59 onto Fannin. Definitely not intuitive unless you're familiar with the area.

[mpbro]

I work downtown and use the Greenbriar/Shepherd exit. Mornings, the NB section is really not a big problem, even at the peak of rush hour. I'm surprised at the asymmetric 2-hour afternoon NB slowdown. Any theories for the asymmetry? HOV?

[MiDTOWNeR]

Haven't they already closed the entrance to the SB 59 from Main street. The entrance with no merge room whatsoever.

But wait, then there is the spur which is a dedicated Bus/HOV lane with some regular traffic lanes added for good measure...what a frickin' mess that has turned out to be.

Sure, there are some pretty, uniform overpasses, but overall this project is a complete joke! Who comes up with this crap?

[ssullivan]

Southbound traffic does seem to move better, but northbound traffic always seems really backed up when I see it on weekdays. Granted I don't drive through that area except maybe once a week, since I work out of town most weeks.

[TheNiche]

Sure, there are some pretty, uniform overpasses, but overall this project is a complete joke! Who comes up with this crap?

Politicians trying to be traffic engineers, that's who.

[musicman]

I work downtown and use the Greenbriar/Shepherd exit. Mornings, the NB section is really not a big problem, even at the peak of rush hour. I'm surprised at the asymmetric 2-hour afternoon NB slowdown. Any theories for the asymmetry? HOV?

It is the merge problem that Danax and ssullivan were talking about. People foolishly try and get over at the last minute. The same thing happens on 45 as you head towards the Pierce elevated. They are going to need to close the Scott entrance (northbound)...backup is getting horrendous there cause of the merging.

[TheNiche]

The same thing happens on 45 as you head towards the Pierce elevated. They are going to need to close the Scott entrance (northbound)...backup is getting horrendous there cause of the merging.

They'll never close that onramp. UH and TSU would whine, whine, and whine some more. It would help if it were redesigned, but even then, there's only so much capacity that they can add...and that area is already doubledecked.

[IHB2]

It is the merge problem that Danax and ssullivan were talking about. People foolishly try and get over at the last minute. The same thing happens on 45 as you head towards the Pierce elevated. They are going to need to close the Scott entrance (northbound)...backup is getting horrendous there cause of the merging.

IMO all these opinions are right b/c the NB backup at the spur is kind of caused by an area-wide phenomenon. the PM backup doesn't exist at 2:30, but does by 3PM and after, while the SB backup is never as bad unless there is a wreck.

if you think about everything going on NB between Shepherd and the Pierce Elevated you've got maybe 6 bottlenecks from the Elevated back to the 45/59/288split/merge to the Fannin onramp to the Main exit to the NB/Spur/HOV split to the disappearing right lane just before the Spur.

the same kinds of bottlenecks don't exist on the SB side, so there seems to be relatively less congestion all times of the day.

[musicman]

IMO all these opinions are right b/c the NB backup at the spur is kind of caused by an area-wide phenomenon. the PM backup doesn't exist at 2:30, but does by 3PM and after, while the SB backup is never as bad unless there is a wreck.

if you think about everything going on NB between Shepherd and the Pierce Elevated you've got maybe 6 bottlenecks from the Elevated back to the 45/59/288split/merge to the Fannin onramp to the Main exit to the NB/Spur/HOV split to the disappearing right lane just before the Spur.

the same kinds of bottlenecks don't exist on the SB side, so there seems to be relatively less congestion all times of the day.

Unfortunately many of the areas we're talking about (pierce elevated, 59 from spur to downtown) will never be widened most likely. So the bottlenecks will exist for a long time to come. I know for the pierce elevated, the land acquisition was expensive back then and that's why a 1/2 a block was purchased instead of a whole block.

[TheNiche]

Unfortunately many of the areas we're talking about (pierce elevated, 59 from spur to downtown) will never be widened most likely. So the bottlenecks will exist for a long time to come. I know for the pierce elevated, the land acquisition was expensive back then and that's why a 1/2 a block was purchased instead of a whole block.

Even the Pierce could be expanded in a couple of different configurations, but it wouldn't be like one of these modern freeway expansion projects, where the freeway is continuously open to typical daily commuters. It'd be a tear-down-all-at-once-and-build-from-the-underground-up kind of project. Either they could double-deck it on the existing ROW, or they could also take the grade-level Pierce Street ROW and run the tunnel the freeway under the wider strip, then rebuild the existing Pierce Street on a cantilevered edge. Any way they cut it, it'll be extraordinarily expensive. But then, so is traffic congestion...

[bachanon]

before the haif crash of 2004 (was it?), i had a post about what i thought should be done about the pierce elevated and other freeways strangling downtown. i think that i-45 should be rerouted around the loops or i-10 and 59. the pierce elevated should be dismantled. when i say i-10 and 59 i mean that i-45 (from the north) should head east at i-10 downtown and connect with 59 south (east of downtown) and then reconnect with 45 south of downtown. open up downtown to midtown and the allen parkway area. expand the freeway capacity around the loops and the i-10/59 connects as described. this would not only improve the downtown view by eliminating the elevated freeway between i-10 and on the north side of downtown and 59 on the south side of downtown, it would reconnect neighborhoods.

have an i-45 business route that runs along pierce or heiner/houston avenue corridor.

if there is always going to be a bottleneck, send people around one side of downtown or the other. if you are headed downtown, no problem. if you are going past downtown, take i-10 east to 59 south to i-45 south, an i-45 business route or the east or west loops.

reconnect the cbd with its immediate neighborhoods. eliminate the wasteland underneath the elevated freeways. how much more inviting would the current bayou improvements be if half of the overhead freeways were dismantled.

[musicman]

before the haif crash of 2004 (was it?), i had a post about what i thought should be done about the pierce elevated and other freeways strangling downtown. i think that i-45 should be rerouted around the loops or i-10 and 59. the pierce elevated should be dismantled. when i say i-10 and 59 i mean that i-45 (from the north) should head east at i-10 downtown and connect with 59 south (east of downtown) and then reconnect with 45 south of downtown. open up downtown to midtown and the allen parkway area. expand the freeway capacity around the loops and the i-10/59 connects as described. this would not only improve the downtown view by eliminating the elevated freeway between i-10 and on the north side of downtown and 59 on the south side of downtown, it would reconnect neighborhoods.

closing the pierce as you propose would be a nightmare scenario. I'd be the first one to picket.

[desirous]

Southbound south of downtown is fine, but north of it, it's not. In the mornings, the Eastex Freeway has been backing up all the way from the I-45 merge to 610 North Loop. It's the fact that 59 at I-45 only has 1.5 through lanes in either direction. They need to widen it to 2.5 lanes minimum, especially if 59 is to become the NAFTA I-69.

Case in point:

This was past 9 o'clock already, when most traffic was already winding down. It's worse earlier in the morning.

Edited October 24, 2006 by desirous

[desirous]

The unsung travesty:

[musicman]

Southbound south of downtown is fine, but north of it, it's not. In the mornings, the Eastex Freeway has been backing up all the way from the I-45 merge to 610 North Loop. It's the fact that 59 at I-45 only has 1.5 through lanes in either direction. They need to widen it to 2.5 lanes minimum, especially if 59 is to become the NAFTA I-69.

where is the extra 0.5 lane you are referencing? i only know of 1 lane. at the 45/59 intersection connecting the two freeways.

i agree the solution is NOT to close the pierce elevated.

Edited October 25, 2006 by musicman

[desirous]

where is the extra 0.5 lane you are referencing? i only know of 1 lane. at the 45/59 intersection connecting the two freeways.

i agree the solution is NOT to close the pierce elevated.

I mean this pathetic joker right here:

2 lanes from I-45 and 2 lanes from US-59 merging into three lanes, 1.5 lanes capacity from either way. In practice it's even worse than that - that center-lane merge is horrendous at high vehicle volumes:

The Eastex Freeway itself is quite functional and never backs up this badly during morning rush hour unless the I-45 merge clogs.

Edited October 25, 2006 by desirous