The Grand Parkway

[pineda]

Nov. 18, 2004, 11:35PM

Lawmaker denounces route of 'super loop'

She says the path of Grand Parkway would decimate property values

By LUCAS WALL, Houston Chronicle

AUSTIN - A state lawmaker voiced her objection Thursday to a proposed segment of the Grand Parkway in northwest Harris County, the latest obstacle in the path of an association formed two decades ago to develop the 182-mile super loop around Houston.

Rep. Debbie Riddle, R-Houston, used the Grand Parkway Association's 20th annual report to the Texas Transportation Commission to state concerns the proposed route between Texas 249 and Interstate 45 "would just decimate the property values" in the Spring area and "import traffic into my district."

She pointed out several subdivisions and a Catholic school the highway would wipe out.

"There is tremendous concern over what this would do to Spring," she said. "Because of the tremendous growth in our area, so many lives are going to be disrupted."

After two hearings produced overwhelming public opposition to the proposed 12-mile segment, the Texas Department of Transportation declined in July to proceed on final environmental reviews. It directed the association to conduct a supplemental study re-evaluating other routes. That review is due by spring.

"Any of the alternatives, all the ones we are looking at, including one farther north, all have disruptions associated with them," said David Gornet, executive director of the Grand Parkway Association. "We have attempted to minimize those disruptions, and we felt the route we proposed did minimize those."

Other proposed segments also face strong opposition from neighborhoods and anti-sprawl advocates.

One 19-mile section of the parkway is open in northern Fort Bend County. Another 14-mile stretch is under construction in Chambers County and will open in 2006, likely as a toll road.

[UrbanLandscape]

I saw signs south of Sugarland that said "Grand Parkway" on them. Anyone else seen this?

[Subdude]

Yes, those are just directional signs for the segment of the "parkway" that is built between the Southwest Freeway and I-10.

[rps324]

Maybe this was discussed earlier & I missed it.

But has anyone seen the maps with the proposed toll road running through Memorial Park? Right alongside the railroad track. Another proposal has a freeway running North from about 610 & 290, right through the Oak Forest area.

[pineda]

Conservative News Service

And now a word from the other side of the coin!

[pineda]

TxDOT transcript from 11/18/04

Especially interesting are the questions raised by State Rep. (150) Debbie Riddle and the comments made by the Executive Director of the Grand Parkway Ass. David Gornet. Good stuff to read and learn about if you've got a few minutes!

[MaxConcrete]

TxDOT transcript from 11/18/04

Especially interesting are the questions raised by State Rep. (150) Debbie Riddle and the comments made by the Executive Director of the Grand Parkway Ass. David Gornet. Good stuff to read and learn about if you've got a few minutes!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No real surprises. My observations are

1. The toll road mania and fanaticism is strengthening on the commission. Just when you thought it couldn't become stronger, it does.

2. Rep. Riddle clearly wants the Grand Parkway on or near FM 1488, which would be a major shift in alignment.

3. Commission Andrade is taking a more active interest in the proceedings. My first impression is that she's not destined to become a henchman/henchwoman like the other commissioners

4. My impression is that the commission is aware of the substantial opposition and is not dismissing it.

5. A lot is riding on the supplemental EIS. Eckels, Lindsay, and TxDOT hope it will appease the opposition so they don't have to ram the project through. If the SEIS does not satisfy the Spring opposition, look for the alignment to be shifted to near 1488 - just like what was done on SH 130 east of Austin.

[20sGirl]

Conservative News Service

And now a word from the other side of the coin!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the article pineda. Just a few thoughts:

This article implies that all of America's cities will be "urbanized" but won't there still be tons of rural property all over the country? Smart growth is only proposed for cities, correct? So, if people don't want to live in an urban environment, they could move away from the city to small towns and rural areas, right?

I think it's funny how the EPA is intorduced in that evil, conspiratorial tone. "Instead, they are part of a coordinated campaign supported by the (cue evil music) the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)!" Nooo, not the EPA! God forbid we have clean air initiatives!

They talk about reduced stress in the suburbs. Suburbia has stresses of its own just as living in an urban environment does. Sitting in traffic, lack of exercise (nowhere to walk), lack of human interaction, boredom, homogenization, etc.

They talk about developing bike lanes as if its a bad thing.

Another quote "Cars pollute most when accelerating and at slow speeds. So most pollution comes from congestion and stop-and-go traffic." If we had an effective public transportation system, that would not be as big of an issue. Besides, in suburbia, even the closest stores, etc. need to be driven to. I'm sure people in the suburbs aren't cruising at 60 mph to go to the Home Depot. Rural highways are probably the only exception here.

"According to the EPA's own estimates, air pollution is worst in the nation's densest cities--the kind of cities smart-growth advocates want everywhere. Moreover, the most polluted portions of those cities are in the places with the most congestion" Is it all due to auto emissions?? If so, maybe we need less cars and more trains. Or, more enforcement of clean air standards for corporations. Or a cleaner burning fuel. (I know, I'm pegging myself as a liberal tree hugger.)I'd be curious to research this further.

I really wish you the best of luck in your fight pineda. I'm pulling for "smart growth" because I've seen the result of uncontrolled sprawl and boy, it's ugly.

[pineda]

The EPA is nothing for anyone to be worried about. With their budgets and enforcement manpower slashed repeatedly till it's basically a shadow of their former selves, there is nothing to fear from the EPA, ever.

There is unfortunately another new version of the Grand Parkway floating around out here in northwest Harris County and Montgomery County. (yes, Senator Lindsay, you're not the only one with "contacts" ...) I will post it when I get a good copy. But, one good note, they're still looking for the money to build it....

[Houston19514]

The EPA is nothing for anyone to be worried about. With their budgets and enforcement manpower slashed repeatedly till it's basically a shadow of their former selves, there is nothing to fear from the EPA, ever.

This made me curious, so I went to the EPA website and looked at their Annual Reports. Their fiscal year 2004 spending was $1 BILLION higher than their Fiscal Year 2000 spending (14.24% increase). I wish my personal budget could have been "slashed" by a similar percentage in that time period...

[Lowbrow]

The EPA did have its budget cut this year, just not as much as Bush had requested. I think he asked for $600mil in cuts and they gave him $350mil or something like that.

[pineda]

History on Jon Lindsay and Jerry Eversole

Jerry Eversole

[SpringTX]

Alright, I'm in the mood for getting some explosive hatred sent my way. My point of this post will be: The Grand Parkway might not be quite so horrible. (Now I duck as the knives start flying through the air at me.)

First of all, I used to live in Katy back in 2002. Everytime I would drive by one particular section of freeway, I read signs saying "Grand Parkway". A very auspicious name. I would drive on this patch of road and see nothing but miles of grassy fields in all directions. Not a single commercial or office building along it. Hardly anybody drove on it. It was kind of a joke.

One day, I ended up taking it toward Sugar Land. I must drove for miles and miles through swampy fields. Once again, there was not a single building in sight along it. And hardly another car on the road. It was a joke.

You're probably familiar with an upscale, fast-rising planned community called Cinco Ranch in Katy. It's one of "top dog" new communities in the Houston area. The Grand Parkway happens to CUT RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE of that subdivision. When it went in, it literally split that community in half.

What has been the result of this "abomination"? Absolutely nothing. It hasn't affected property values in Cinco Ranch. Property values are doing great there. It hasn't brought in traffic or congestion. It hasn't brought in more noise. It apparently hasn't had much of any noticeable impact at all.

Now, the planned route for the section of the Grand Parkway in "Spring" (which technically isn't in Spring ISD, and isn't really near Old Town Spring) pretty much dodges the existing established major subdivisions like Northamption and Bridge-something (Bridgestone?), as far as I can tell from maps. In reading an article against the Grand Parkway, it was cited that it would effect 3 commercial establishments. That's it? Just 3? It looks like it will cut alongside maybe a few of the smaller, cheaper subdivisions? Will it even split in half a subdivision like it did in Katy?

I used to live in the Washington, DC area near a heavily-utilized greenway. It was beautiful to drive along. Most of it overlooked miles of woods and grassy fields, with a few scattered farmhouses. A greenway/parkway isn't always a bad thing. This greenway didn't resemble Houston's I-45 in the slightest. Some opponents of the Grand Parkway have said that it might wind up resembling I-45. Why are we so sure of that?

Now let's put aside the whole argument that the Grand Parkway won't actually help anyone get anywhere. Let's assume that it IS a big waste and serves no useful purpose from a traffic perspective. Then why the fuss about property values? Why the fuss about noise and traffic?

Even if it does become used, why the dark premonitions of clusters of ugly office buildings and retail outlets all along it?

I've heard it argued by Save Our Spring group that the rural character of that part of that area is disappearing. What about the new subdivisions springing up all over the place? I drove through there several weeks ago and saw several more lots where clear-cutting had occurred. And what about the overnight explosion of retail up there? I see dozens grocery stores, video game stores, and restaurants where there had been nothing but grass only months ago. Does anyone seriously think the rural character of that area stands a chance, even if the Grand Parkway were to fail? It seems to me that the rural character there is rapidly disappearing and there's nothing anyone can do about it, including stopping the Grand Parkway.

Finally, can you imagine what the east-west routes through that part of that area would be like once there are stoplights, driveways, and crosswalks every few yards? Those roads are all going to look like 1960 or Louetta in a few years. Wouldn't a parkway cutting through that area be the BEST thing to help commuters get to I-45 quickly for their downtown commute? Do the residents in places like Northampton want to watch their commutes get longer and longer as more development comes in? Wouldn't longer commutes hurt property values?

Let me summarize. The Grand Parkway might not be so bad. I'm sure an angry mob will now want to hunt me down and lynch me. There are certainly pro's and con's to any issue. But I just don't see the doom-and-gloom that is being portrayed. At least not from what I've seen so far. Maybe I'm missing something here. I hope I am wrong. If I'm missing something here, please tell me what it is and I'll GLADLY jump on the anti-Grand-Parkway bandwagon. But, for the life of me, I can't see what the fuss is all about. I can't imagine it hurting property values or altering the rural character of that area any more. Why is this section of the Grand Parkway being billed as the end of the world?

Ok, now let the firestorm commence...

[tigereye]

Ok, now let the firestorm commence...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its too late for a firestorm, I'm going to sleep. Maybe in the morning....

BTW, I like the GP.....as an alternative Interstate 69 route. Commercial traffic traveling through the city of Houston needs a new way to bypass this city instead of crowding up our freeways with there massive rigs with massive saftey violations, just to get 610 to go around the city. The loop did a good job of doing this back in the day. Now, its too far into the city.

[VicMan]

"ow, the planned route for the section of the Grand Parkway in "Spring" (which technically isn't in Spring ISD, and isn't really near Old Town Spring) pretty much dodges the existing established major subdivisions like Northamption and Bridge-something (Bridgestone?), as far as I can tell from maps"

Is it in Klein ISD?

I'm surprising people still think they can save any rural character whatsoever... look what happened to Alief. It went from a rural area to a ghetto in something like 50 years.

[RedScare]

I will never be one that 'supports' a new tollway, since, frankly, these things get enough support from developers. However, some statements are always thrown out by opponents of these projects, and sometimes it is done with no study, organized or otherwise, to back it up.

'Property values' is one of those buzzwords. It is thrown out, not because it is necessarily true, but to alert the troops to oppose the project. Oftentimes, the exact opposite is the case. If the Parkway were to really negatively impact proerty values, the developers would not want it. The fact is, by increasing access to the area, the GP will probably increase values.

However, that can be a problem, in and of itself. Inreased access equates to increased congestion. This is what the opponents really fear. They like the area the way it is and don't want it to become a paved over Katy Prairie. Therein lies the problem. To argue that the GP will increase access, thereby spurring development, and increasing density and congestion, they play into the argument of the developers and their pawns, the political leaders. So, they must mask the argument by arguing the exact opposite, saying the one thing that people may listen to, that it hurts property values.

Freeways or tollroads generally are only obnoxious for a short distance. Once you are a quarter mile away or so, they actually become a benefit. Everyone notes the freeway access to their home when they are trying to sell it. But, if it runs through your yard, that is a different story.

I applaud pineda and others who are contesting the GP, not because I believe they will 'win' in the general sense. The GP will go through Spring. I applaud them, because, by opposing the moneid interests supporting this road, they will force a less intrusive route, and gain other amenities, such as sound walls or additional landscaping, that will reduce its impact on the area.

[SpringTX]

"ow, the planned route for the section of the Grand Parkway in "Spring" (which technically isn't in Spring ISD, and isn't really near Old Town Spring) pretty much dodges the existing established major subdivisions like Northamption and Bridge-something (Bridgestone?), as far as I can tell from maps"

Is it in Klein ISD?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, this section goes exclusively through Klein ISD subdivisions.

Although, technically the subdivisions in the area list their address as "Spring, TX" instead of "Houston, TX".

There should be a subforum for Spring/Klein, like there is for The Woodlands and Katy and so on. If anyone wants to email the administrator and request this, I would personally appreciate it. If it requires a little graft, let me know.

[SpringTX]

I will never be one that 'supports' a new tollway, since, frankly, these things get enough support from developers.

...

I applaud pineda and others who are contesting the GP, not because I believe they will 'win' in the general sense.  The GP will go through Spring.  I applaud them, because, by opposing the monied interests supporting this road, they will force a less intrusive route, and gain other amenities, such as sound walls or additional landscaping, that will reduce its impact on the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now I have a better sense. That helps me understand it. And it appears that what you are saying is already happening: they've had to re-draw the route several times to make it less intrusive.

[RedScare]

The reason all of these areas have a "Spring" address is that they are all served by the Spring post office near or on FM 2920. Many residents use the area that they live in as their hometown (Woodlands, Spring, Klein), but this is not the "official" city. As long as you use the ZIP code, you don't even need to list a city or state.

[texas911]

I don't mind the idea of the granparkway, but the way it was built and funded is what irks me. Bob Lanier was head of the highway commision when the grandparkway was approved, by him, to go through tracts of land that he owned. What a crock. I hated mayor Bob, he was a money grabbing scumbag.

[adagio]

I tend to do a lot of lurking in this forum. However, I feel strongly about the Grand Parkway because I am also a resident of Spring.

I feel much of the opposition behind the Grand Parkway is summed up bythe posting from Travel Guy 73 in the Real Estate/Neighborhood Lifecycle topic. Residents in Spring do not want this highway to kill their neighborhoods. No one wants this road in their backyard. Real estate values in parts of Spring are being negatively affected by their proximity to the proposed alignments of the Grand Parkway as well as the glut of new housing created as a means of redirecting the preferred alignment of the Grand Parkway.

I have driven on the portion of the Grand Parkway that goes through Cinco Ranch and it is okay for a parkway. However when I drove over the Harris County line, the Grand Parkway became a different type of highway. The roadway did not have a buffer between the highway and the lots that abutted it. The landscaping became non existent in much of the area along the road. From what I have read and heard from the public meetings, I pretty sure that the segment that will traverse through Spring will not look like the Cinco Ranch segment. It will probably look closer to a Beltway 8 or Hardy Tollroad. TXDot and HCTRA need to be upfront with the public in terms of what type of road they plan to build and who they are building the road for (is it mostly for residents of The Woodlands to assist their commute, is it solely a developer highway, is it a NAFTA route). In addition to meeting with developers, the agencies need to meet with existing neighborhoods and weigh the impact to existing developments who will be affected by the highway. When all the information is brought to the table along with updated maps perhaps an alignment that will impact fewer people can be determined.