An open letter to HAIF members

[Jeebus]

Later on I realized that not everyone on this forum is here to discuss rationally or on a human level. What really drew me to the site was the historical section and for the most part I do enjoy the other topics. However, I learned later that some of the topics were drifting away quite far away. Some people start discussing their most intimate personal life as if we need to know. That is a bit much. People need to realize and understand that there are people of all ages viewing these comments. It's just creepy knowing that you could be speaking of some very risque stuff & knowing a person under 18 is reading. Trust me things can be taken out of context and taken literally by those that are not used to seeing such info.

Blame the moderators!

[dalparadise]

All I can say is when I first came across this site I assumed it was a professional architectural related site for others to discuss related topics on architecture. For the most part it is.

Later on I realized that not everyone on this forum is here to discuss rationally or on a human level. What really drew me to the site was the historical section and for the most part I do enjoy the other topics. However, I learned later that some of the topics were drifting away quite far away. Some people start discussing their most intimate personal life as if we need to know. That is a bit much. People need to realize and understand that there are people of all ages viewing these comments. It's just creepy knowing that you could be speaking of some very risque stuff & knowing a person under 18 is reading. Trust me things can be taken out of context and taken literally by those that are not used to seeing such info.

There was a time I used to let many people know of Haif at professional network events but I stopped after learning of some of the mean-spirited and down right attacks I have seen here. There are some that are blatant "harassment" and bordering on stalking. What I have also learned is to not take things so personal. Sometimes I type something then later realized how unpleasant it might sound so I correct it. While working for HR in corporate we had ongoing classes on email usage. In a business setting if some of these members were employees of the company they would have been let go by now. The

demeanor seen on this forum by some is considered a "liability" to many companies these days. Hence, a corporation would release that person as they come across as so offensive they are setting that company up for a suit. Serious stuff these days people.

To continue to track any other member on and off again not only makes the attacker look foolish it also hurts the forum as a whole. People must know that even though you delete or modify any message it can be traced. Just like email.

Now, if those little smiley faces were not there to be used maybe they should be removed? I see no reason no to have them? If tiny/miniscule things like that bother some maybe they can just ignore. That simple. Again, I do enjoy this forum for the most part but it is the personal attacks that are presently out of control. Its as if there are no moderators or as if the moderators agree with the attacker?

Finally, as stated the "harassment" needs to end now. People don't care of a person's politcal status or if they dont like certain religions. Just let people live. No one need to explain to other members anything.

Peace on Earth good will ......

What a load of crap.

[Guest Marty]

I know a lot members think I am a jerk or a pain in the butt but I am going to respect this forum buy thinking twice about hitting the reply button/ keeping my edgy personal views to my self, remember we are all guest in the editor's house = Haif.

[Pumapayam]

What a load of crap.

That was uncalled for, and you could have conveyed that message in a mature manner. I am surprised that you would place a response like that in a thread that represent exactly was the open letter complains about.

We could do without those kind of posts, especially since it was "25 characters or less"

[editor]

What a load of crap.

I think you've just illustrated that you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[dalparadise]

I think you've just illustrated that you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[Pumapayam]

I think you've just illustrated that you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I will throw in my opinion Editor, I think he is toy-ing along the same lines as 77017, and that smilie is more of a taunt, especially when he is taunting the owner of the site.

If I was to suggest something without saying it, and I hope you do it. We don't need people like that in here.

[Guest Marty]

I will throw in my opinion Editor, I think he is toy-ing along the same lines as 77017, and that smilie is more of a taunt, especially when he is taunting the owner of the site.

If I was to suggest something without saying it, and I hope you do it. We don't need people like that in here.

This should be a Personal Message, keep your personal opinions to your self.

[VicMan]

Hey, here's an example of what kind of discussion to not have (One loaded with personal attacks)

http://www.kingwoodunderground.com/topic.j...opicId=10500778

I notice a lot of personal attacks toward not just the subjects of the article (illegal immigrants who died in a car crash), but also towards each other.

Not everyone in the topic is cruel, but some are.

EDIT: Yes, "Vicman," the very "Vicman" on the forum is me. I'm trying to add some common sense and I am refraining from personal attacks.

[Pumapayam]

This should be a Personal Message, keep your personal opinions to your self.

Nope, I'd rather it be an open message. My thoughts were appropriately communicated. If it was a personal message, I would have been much more casual with my language.

[dbigtex56]

Later on I realized that not everyone on this forum is here to discuss rationally or on a human level. What really drew me to the site was the historical section and for the most part I do enjoy the other topics. However, I learned later that some of the topics were drifting away quite far away. Some people start discussing their most intimate personal life as if we need to know. That is a bit much. People need to realize and understand that there are people of all ages viewing these comments. It's just creepy knowing that you could be speaking of some very risque stuff & knowing a person under 18 is reading. Trust me things can be taken out of context and taken literally by those that are not used to seeing such info.

Blame the moderators!

I'd rather blame those who submit inappropriate posts.

Because of HAIF's success, there are now so many posts that we moderators can no longer review each one. If a HAIF member encounters a truly offensive post (and not merely one with which he disagrees), he's encouraged to bring it to a moderator's attention.

Defining 'offensive' isn't an exact science. The editor and we moderators discuss, ponder and struggle with achieving a balance between civility and free expression. Generally, we tend to come down on the latter's side.

[dalparadise]

I'd rather blame those who submit inappropriate posts.

Because of HAIF's success, there are now so many posts that we moderators can no longer review each one. If a HAIF member encounters a truly offensive post (and not merely one with which he disagrees), he's encouraged to bring it to a moderator's attention.

Defining 'offensive' isn't an exact science. The editor and we moderators discuss, ponder and struggle with achieving a balance between civility and free expression. Generally, we tend to come down on the latter's side.

DBT -- You seem to be a fair and good moderator, with intelligent points to add and the ability to step outside yourself and evaluate discussions objectively. In my opinion, "Subdude" is another story.

[Pumapayam]

DBT -- You seem to be a fair and good moderator, with intelligent points to add and the ability to step outside yourself and evaluate discussions objectively. In my opinion, "Subdude" is another story.

It is probably best not to name drop in an open area if you have issues with someone (you live and learn), direct those kind of remarks to another moderator or the editor.

[dalparadise]

It is probably best not to name drop in an open area if you have issues with someone (you live and learn), direct those kind of remarks to another moderator or the editor.

A comment was made about moderators and I diplomatically added my opinion. I didn't name-call. I didn't state it as fact. I think I'm within the guidelines and I don't care what you think.

[Jeebus]

DBT -- You seem to be a fair and good moderator, with intelligent points to add and the ability to step outside yourself and evaluate discussions objectively. In my opinion, "Subdude" is another story.

Maybe there should be a thread dedicated to HAIF "quality control & improvement"?

[Guest Marty]

Maybe there should be a thread dedicated to HAIF "quality control & improvement"?

That would suck because it will be nothing but "This member should be banned" nonsense.

[Jeebus]

That would suck because it will be nothing but "This member should be banned" nonsense.

Oh no no.. I was referring to a thread to discuss the Moderators & the job that they are doing (good or bad) - all in an effort to improve the forum of course.

I actually have quite a few compliments I'd like to hand out to certain moderators.

[Guest Marty]

I had my differences with several of the moderators before in the past but I got over it and put it behind me, there is only 5 Moderators in this forum they cant keep up with every post that's posted on here.

[Mr. Chenevert]

This is an internet forum, not my mom's living room. Maybe some people need to get thicker skin.

[Jeebus]

This is an internet forum, not my mom's living room. Maybe some people need to get thicker skin.

This post is a perfect example of the trash that needs to be moderated.

[kristiw]

This is a very interesting Open Letter... right up to the word "va-jay-jay", where it kind of lost me.

[Trae]

I had my differences with several of the moderators before in the past but I got over it and put it behind me, there is only 5 Moderators in this forum they cant keep up with every post that's posted on here.

Maybe new moderators need to be appointed? HAIF is growing, and for a site with over 3740 members and over 180,270 posts, maybe more than five moderators are needed.

[west20th]

Maybe new moderators need to be appointed? HAIF is growing, and for a site with over 3740 members and over 180,270 posts, maybe more than five moderators are needed.

Lobbying for the job? j/k. I would think being a moderator is somewhat a labor of love. Seems to be a pretty thankless job at times.

[Subdude]

Lobbying for the job? j/k. I would think being a moderator is somewhat a labor of love. Seems to be a pretty thankless job at times.

Ah, all for the love of HAIF!

[houstonmacbro]

Maybe new moderators need to be appointed? HAIF is growing, and for a site with over 3740 members and over 180,270 posts, maybe more than five moderators are needed.

Didn't I see a post seeking additional moderators just the other day?

(oops, my bad ... this IS that post)

[Jeebus]

Maybe new moderators need to be appointed? HAIF is growing, and for a site with over 3740 members and over 180,270 posts, maybe more than five moderators are needed.

I agree. Maybe start assigning sub-moderators to the busier specific sub-forums, and leave the super-moderators in place to roam over the entire board.

Let's have a thread to nominate additional moderators, and then have a poll to vote. The first ever HAIF primaries & Moderator election is upon us!

[Mark F. Barnes]

I agree. Maybe start assigning sub-moderators to the busier specific sub-forums, and leave the super-moderators in place to roam over the entire board.

Let's have a thread to nominate additional moderators, and then have a poll to vote. The first ever HAIF primaries & Moderator election is upon us!

The only problem with that is then it would turn into a popularity contest, and then the most popular would be elected and not necessarily the best person for the job. Besides you need to remember, this is not a democracy it's a dictatorship. Wayne will be the last word on everything, and he can consult amongst his current moderators, for their input, since they will all have to be working together. If a person really wants to be a moderator, shoot Wayne a line and he can consider it. I am sure he has a short list already in mind if it comes to the point he thinks he needs to ad moderators. I really don't see the need right now myself. Wayne has always tried to have himself and his moderators to take a hands-off approach, until it gets out of hand and then they step in. It's not like a lot can go on without them knowing about it as many whiners as they have in here that run and cry to them every time their feelings get hurt. I'd love to see an "IM count" on their mail boxes. It takes a really thick skinned person, that can lay in the shadows and let the forum evolve on it's own, without being a constant disruption, by over moderating. It's part of the flavor of this place, is all the different personalities within, and the chemistry as a result of it, whether it be good or bad. The best moderator is the one you hardly notice. It's kind of like a referee in a boxing match, or a soccer game, or football what have you, if the referee is so much a part of the game or match, it becomes a disruption and the focus goes from the game at hand to the referee, then the game or match is no longer as interesting.

[Trae]

Lobbying for the job? j/k. I would think being a moderator is somewhat a labor of love. Seems to be a pretty thankless job at times.

I wouldn't mind at all.

[Pumapayam]

I wouldn't mind at all.

I think a sub moderator would be fitting, in a way, it changes nothing other than giving some of the more level headed people to join the current team of moderators.

[H-Town Man]

Before the crash this was a great place for smart discussions about urban issues and architecture. The conversation now has degenerated into pseudo-intellectual babbling and silly one-upsmanship. I think some of the bad vibes blasted around here are completely earned.

Furthermore, I hate all the "great post!" and " " comments made by people who lack either the conviction or intelligence to express their own opinions. There are "valued" members on this site who believe that dissenting opinions are "trolling," whatever that means, and who will go on for 5-10 posts to rally the rest of their clan against the person, not the opinion. I don't think they do it out of a mean spirit. I think it's actually poor communication and reasoning skills.

Yeah, I act childish on here a lot. I'm a product of the new HAIF. I remember what it was before this. Now, it's more of an entertainment outlet. Some of that entertainment for me, I confess, comes in sarcasm and stirring the pot once in awhile.

The old forum was better, but not that much better. In fact, I seem to remember you making a valiant effort to try to quell some of the crud that you identify with the new forum, and then becoming frustrated.

When this place had 30 members it was basically a collegial discussion of serious architecture issues, and usually lamentation that Houston is not more urban. Then it became bigger and less civil. Then it crashed, was reborn, and became even bigger and less civil. But there are many valuable conversations on here now (especially on history and neighborhood issues) that were not around when it was just a meeting ground of architecture buffs.

I think that most of the ugliness on this forum comes from about 5 or 6 members. They make rude, unprovoked comments, and most people just leave the discussion rather than getting into a long, messy battle with them. The problem is that they post so often that it is hard to find a conversation where they do not make their appearance. Newer posters have followed their example, and the character of this place has slowly changed.