AtticaFlinch

Agreed. The law is the law, and all. Responsibility and maturity come about with the passing of a birthday, according to the law.

Ugh. I really should have stuck with my initial impulse and left the weightier parts of this topic alone. I simply do not care about it enough to delve deeply into a debate about ethics or the practical nature of a common legal system. Frankly, I agree these kids acted foolishly, recklessly and without regard for other people, and as a result, deserve to be punished. Again, my contention is the charge seems overwrought considering the minimal impact of the crime. Perhaps we come from two different worlds on this, but what you perceive as dastardly, heinous and evil, I see as something not too far away from what I'd have done as a kid, albeit at a younger age. Perhaps that's why it's easier for me to forgive them. While you were responsible as a kid, I was reckless and impetuous, and I had little regard for the well-being of other people. But, then an amazing thing happened. I grew up. I matured. And, I'm eternally grateful the majority of the sins of my childhood don't follow me to this day.

You can research it all you'd like, but you'll never find any evidence supporting any claims that the world ends on 2012 made by any ancient culture. Apocalyptic scenarios are largely a fascination of western cultures, especially in trying to uncover the future date of said apocalypse. Don't get me wrong, nearly every culture on the planet has pondered an end of existence, but most often these ends are merely the beginnings of new cycles, not exclusively the end. In the minds of the people from many ancient and otherwise primitive cultures, the cycle renewal was akin to the annual shifting of the seasons. Winter ends, spring begins. When spring ends, summer begins. After that, autumn begins. And then the entire cycle begins again.

Earlier I wrote I wasn't going to spend too much time trying to convince anyone else to think like me on this issue. I should have stuck with that. The mob always wants to see other people suffer, and frankly, I don't really care very much about what happens to these kids. My big beef is just that the charge seems trumped up for (what appears to me, based on the same limited info everyone else has) something so inconsequential. Somehow, I guess because I disagree with the District Attorney, I've become these kids' HAIF defense attorney. But, even considering I really don't care, I still firmly think that not understanding the degrees of difference between a BB gun, a child's toy, and an actual firearm is beyond ridiculous. But, whatever. The DA has given his team an unwinnable case. No matter what the court of public opinion thinks, aggravated assault this ain't, not unless there's some horrendous detail that's been left out of the Chronicle. Also, you seem a bright individual, so you probably don't need a lesson in the proper application of the law, but considering your need to "make an example of these fools," you may not have heard that the law is supposed to apply equally to all citizens. People shouldn't be made an example of, neither for deterrence nor for political posturing. I speak of ideals, of course, and not reality. I readily admit this. But, we've got to start somewhere, and foaming at the mouth for the blood of children because they acted like children is an irresponsible application of authority. Should they be taught a lesson? Of course. That's the purported purpose of our justice system, right? Deterrence and reform, right? Or, is it punishment? Is it all three? Well, that's a question that's yet to be resolved in this country, and it's not one that we'll solve here.

As I've mentioned before, in a past life I was an archaeologist. One of my two areas of study was in Mesoamerica, specifically with the Maya, more specifically with their mythology and even more specifically with their art, script and iconography. So eveyone knows, and so this point is stated as clearly as possible, nowhere in known ancient Mayan script is 2012 mentioned once. The ancient Maya did not predict the end of the world on December 21, 2012. The date is entirely irrelevant to the ancient Maya. This whole 2012 thing started in the 80s when a couple new age hippies got ahold of some academic essays that showed how the Mayan longcount calendar ended on that day and extrapolated their own mystic beliefs (or were entrepreneurs looking to make a few bucks off selling doomsday books). What that means to the layman is that's the last day of the calendar. That's it, It's not the end of the world, it's just the last day of one millennium. The next day will start a new calendar and a new millennium. See how simple that is? This isn't to say this wouldn't have been a big deal for the Maya (assuming their culture had survived intact to this day and they'd never lost the knowledge of their script). Sure, it would have been big to them. There probably would have been a few Maya crackpots running around hoarding water and twinkies in their fallout shelters. Of course that would have happened. It's natural. But, that's no different than what a few nuts did here during Y2K. And to make it completely comprehensible, let me use an analogy: Saying the Maya predicted the apocalypse in 2012 is like saying to Romans predicted the apocalypse in the year 2000.

Nor me. However, I still think the example is relevant.

Not really, no, I don't know what you mean. Science says, "Show me the evidence, testable and verifiable, and then I'll believe it." Faith says, "I don't need evidence to believe something because I feel it's true." I can assure you, if irrefutable proof of God existed, scientists would believe in God. Unfortunately, it doesn't. There's not a shred of evidence for that. And, before you call me a godless commie, know that I know both sides of the argument. I was raised a strict Southern Baptist. It's kinda sorta silly to call someone close-minded for not considering your, er... "evidence" when you won't consider theirs, especially if that person has indeed given your "evidence" heavy consideration. I can assure you, it wasn't easy to take the leap away from faith. There's no safety net in this circus. That said, I have no intention of forcing other people to share my non-beliefs. Not everyone is comfortable with the uncertainty of a Godless universe, and that's ok. I wouldn't expect anyone to express belief in what they don't truly believe. But, I expect the same consideration. I won't force my non-belief on you if you don't force your belief on me, you know what I mean?

Fair enough, I suppose I did pass judgment, but at least my judgment erred on the side of "Innocent until proven guilty," and not the other way around. Can you see a difference, and can you understand why that's important to maintain a society built upon the rule of law? In a society like ours, one not founded upon a common religion, ethnicity or culture, the only thing that binds us together is law. Justice can't be meted out arbitrarily and based on emotions. Criminal cases must be decided beyond all reasonable doubt, and none of the information given proves that in the least, not for any of the "criminals." As for the charge vs sentence thing goes, try telling anyone who has so much as been charged with a felony that their life hasn't been irrevocably altered by it, regardless of the ultimate verdict. Having a felony charge on their record pretty much sentences a person to a harder life. You know, chances are good the families of these Rice students can probably afford reasonably good attorneys, and will likely be able to reduce the charge to a misdemeanor assault (which it most definitely appears to be). It's unfortunate, had the kids been a little less blessed with opportunity, and they couldn't afford quality attorneys, they'd likely be stuck with the felony for the remainder of their lives. I suppose, if the DA wanted these kids to ultimately end up with a misdemeanor, they should have been charged with a misdemeanor. I have a real problem with justice being granted only due to some underhanded backroom wheeling and dealing. Justice shouldn't be decided the way trinkets are purchased at a Matamoros market.

That's a great idea. It shouldn't be too difficult to keep up with prisoners in Montrose.

I've just read the Emmys are hosting a separate awards show for reality TV, and they're hosting it in Houston.

So, considering the resource is so scarce, and the necessary time needed to commit to the citizens of the city is so high, perhaps we do agree that having the cops waste time handing out minor traffic tickets is unnecessary? I'm glad you and I could find something to agree on too.

Whoa. I seem to have touched on a nerve here. For the record, I didn't say those kids (and yes, they're kids - lest we forget our own levels of impetuosity and foolishness at the same age) didn't break a law and deserve punishment. However, the punishment recommended for a felony aggravated assault charge is hardly commensurate with the crime of shooting people with BBs. Some people around these parts are displaying the worst characteristics of bloodthirsty mob justice. Saddling someone for the rest of their lives with a felony for a dumb decision made when young and stupid shouldn't be a decision made capriciously. Just because what they did made you angry doesn't mean these kids shouldn't be afforded the beneficence of a just legal system. It's our duty as citizens of this country to use logic and not emotions to uphold justice. As for Falling Down, vigilantism is also a crime. Is that one more allowable in your eyes? Is that a crime you find justifiable in action? I bet those of you so intent on throwing the book at these kids for violating the law break the law yourselves in a million different ways on a regular basis. How about a little moral relativism and some compassion? Pope John Paul II was able to forgive the man who tried to take his life (with real bullets!), and while I'm not trying to suggest anyone in Texas is as upright a man as the pope, especially that pope in particular, perhaps we could learn something positive from his example. Had any of those "victims" required anything more than a band-aid and a cold compress, I might feel differently. Perhaps someone can enlighten the rest of us as to the dastardly outcome of these heinous crimes. Did anyone end up in the ICU? Were any eyes shot out? How many people even know if the gun was a pump air gun or a CO2 gun? How many facts about this case do any of you self-appointed executioners even know? Considering I don't know anything outside what the newspaper's written, I'll reserve my judgement for a time when I'm considerably more informed on the subject. Perhaps the rest of you can do the same.

When did Americans become such pansies? Any physical harm at all? Maybe you're right though, maybe it's good none of the "victims" had a centerfire pistol. Because it would have been just too much awesomeness had those darn kids actually been killed in retaliation like they should have been, am I right? That would have been an appropriate response. Then, the "victim" would have been a hero for protecting the neighborhood against the scourge of BB gun toting Rice nerds. Taking the life of other people is definitely a good way of eliminating welts and bruises. Had I known it was appropriate, I'd have carried a nine when I was nine. Whenever a bully gave me an indian armrub, I could have busted a cap in his ass and screamed at his corpse, "That's what you get for causing physical harm!"

How's this for some reality? Houston has over 5000 officers. Harris County Sheriffs Department has over 4200 deputies. This doesn't even mention the DPS patrolmen or the various constable departments who run around the city and county. You mean to tell me, with a combined force easily measuring over 10,000 people on the streets, I shouldn't expect a cop to respond in a timely manner and do his job without complaint? By the way, in regards to my out-of-touchness with reality, reread what I wrote prior to what you wrote: You see, if the cops weren't busy tying up valuable resources handing out tickets for minor speed violations or other crap, they could be investigating crime. Crazy concept, I know. If they weren't too busy pulling people over for going 65 in a 60, then you wouldn't have to worry about hoping they are responding to high priority calls over car thefts and minor accidents. They could do both. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Houston_Police_Department http://www.linkedin.com/companies/harris-county-sheriff%27s-office

Considering our last state congress bricked on the whole "green" power issue, I'm not surprised local government has picked up the slack. It had to happen for this city to continue to enjoy our "king of the mountain" stature when it comes to energy.

Streetwalkers, sure. But remember, as I wrote earlier, I once lived two blocks from this joint. There used to be hobos who'd visit the apartment Dumpster daily, looking for glass and aluminum and other recyclables the residents (I being chief among the lazy) were obviously too busy to sort. I would assume those guys had to live somewhere, and where better than an empty building? According to the photos on that one other thread, the River Cafe beats the crap out of living in the Savoy (and it's a helluva lot closer).

Oh, no. There's a communication problem here... What you're mistaking is what I think they should be employed to do, and what I perceive their actual job to be. You see, one's an ideal, and the other is reality. Take a moment and let it simmer. Then, maybe then, we can discuss it. There is no contradiction on my end, and even if there was, I'd choose the words of a man more brilliant than I'd ever hope to be: Do I contradict myself? Very well then. I am large, I contain multitudes.* *Google it!

About the $30k to $3k thing, that money is not refundable. A bail bondsman acts as an agent between the courts and the criminal. When a court sets bail at $30,000, then that means they must receive $30,000 before the accused is released. A bondsman gives a loan with a 10% rate of interest upfront to get an accused person out of jail. So yeah, it's only $3k, but once that money's been spent, no matter the outcome of the trial, it's gone. And, I'm sure for a college student who was just out acting stupid, as college students are wont to do (even at tony Rice), it's a huge setback. Had this been a high-pressured water gun attack, even if it also caused welts and/or bruises, this never would have made the news. (Or a paint gun for that matter - and they leave similar injuries to BB guns.)

Everyone I know who's met Fertitta has said he's a royal jerkoff. Too bad Joe's Crabshack has those great crab nachos.

Good point. I guess it could also be to get the hobos out of the neighborhood.

Bruce Lee once said to be like water. Threads meander like streams. Fighting the flow of water is a pretty useless waste of time. I was already there, and the choice wasn't mine to call the cops, nor to wait for them either. Besides, any attempt to uphold the peace shouldn't ever be considered a waste of a cop's time. That's a cop's job, or at least that's what we're told it is. Their job description seems to have changed over the years. Now their job is to generate revenue from the alternative taxes they collect.

I'm not going to spend too much time trying to convince you to think my way about this issue, but surely you must be daft if you can't see the difference between a BB gun and those other guns. Can you discern a difference between a 12 gauge and an ICBM with a nuclear warhead? The world exists in degrees and clines, not polar absolutes.

Well, maybe. It's pretty difficult to say how I'd react without having it actually happen. I suppose had my eye been shot out, I'd be pretty pissed, but that didn't happen to me or any of the "victims." I don't even think a BB is capable of breaking human skin except at close range. What's the worst that happened to these victims? They have a welt? A bruise? I just wrote on another thread about how cops can't be arsed to investigate burglaries, but the justice system is more than willing to throw the book at a few kids for being cheeky? You're right, I might feel differently if I had been hit, but even then I'd be able to recognize that our justice system's priorities are way out of whack.

I'm glad my office door is closed. Otherwise, my laughter would have revealed the fact I'm not doing anything productive right now.

Here's what I don't get. The oldest of these kids is what, 22? They're shooting at people with BB guns, not AK-47s. Is there actually a single victim hurt by these so-called attacks? In order for an assault to be a felony aggravated charge, there must be a weapon (check - sorta, if you're a bird I guess) and the intent to do bodily harm (ehhh... I doubt it). I'm pretty sure these are just kids caught up in what's essentially a prank and nothing more. It ain't as if they're auditioning for the villain role in the next Batman movie. It's a shame these kids aren't let off with a stern warning and a slap on the wrist. No harm, no foul. A $30k bond is outrageous for a BB prank.