Downtown's Street Grid

[Guest danax]

Does anyone know why the streets from Downtown going east all run southeast/northwest and northeast/southwest instead of north/south and east/west? My first guess is that the Bayou as it approached Allen's Landing from the east was the rough benchmark for the layout of DT and the first streets ran parallel and perpendicular to that.

Are we doomed by virtue of having wacky Feng Shui?

I did a quick check to relieve my anxiety regarding that possiblity and here are the results of various downtowns ;

NSEW alignment

Chicago

Phoenix

San Diego

Portland (mostly)

Non-NSEW alignment

Manhattan

Los Angeles

San Francisco

Boston

Seattle

London

Paris

Tokyo

Dallas

The oldest cities are the ones with the most tangled streets. It looks like we're not doomed after all .

[Guest Marty]

Doesnt it got something to do with drainage?

Edited November 8, 2006 by Marty

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I think the streets like the buildings are quened off of Buffalo Bayou. Thats the reason the buildings downtown have a staggered look to them. They line up with the bayou.

[MidtownCoog]

Don't the streets run North/South and East/West?

At least that's what the signs say in downtown.

[musicman]

Don't the streets run North/South and East/West?

At least that's what the signs say in downtown.

danax's map is displayed with north at the top. the streets don't run directly north/south and east/west but rather diagonally

Edited November 8, 2006 by musicman

[MidtownCoog]

Well then Houston signs have a problem.

We had this agrument in my office building while trying to determine the location of a conference room.

Nobody could agree on the direction of Louisana & Lamar. I still don't think they agree.

[RedScare]

http://www.houstonhistory.com/legacy/history6c.htm

The Allen brothers laid out the original grid to parallel Buffalo Bayou. The original streets were from Commerce south to Texas Avenue, and from Bagby east. The northeast orientation is due to the bayou's orientation.

[musicman]

Well then Houston signs have a problem.

What signs are you referencing Downtown that are incorrect? I think it's a given that 45N and 59N don't run north either. one end runs "generally" north while the other end runs the other direction (i.e. south)

[The Great Hizzy!]

I concur with both Red and Music Man.

[MidtownCoog]

What signs are you referencing Downtown that are incorrect?

Check out the street signs. They have the markings of NSEW on each side. They show Louisana to run due North. You have to be on foot. Not sure if you can see them from your car.

[sevfiv]

Check out the street signs. They have the markings of NSEW on each side. They show Louisana to run due North. You have to be on foot. Not sure if you can see them from your car.

yeah, those are technically incorrect - but probably more of a decoration than a utility

What signs are you referencing Downtown that are incorrect? I think it's a given that 45N and 59N don't run north either. one end runs "generally" north while the other end runs the other direction (i.e. south)

but yeah, it is general...especially 59, which runs pretty much due east and west between the west beltway and downtown

Edited November 8, 2006 by sevfiv

[RedScare]

Check out the street signs. They have the markings of NSEW on each side. They show Louisana to run due North. You have to be on foot. Not sure if you can see them from your car.

Coog, those directional signs are a concession to the general inclination of people giving directions in downtown to call NE/SW streets North/South, and NW/SE streets East/West. The signs and posts were installed as aids to those unfamiliar with downtown. I know of no one who says Travis is Northeast, so a tourist can use the signpost in the way the locals give directions.

[musicman]

Check out the street signs. They have the markings of NSEW on each side. They show Louisana to run due North. You have to be on foot. Not sure if you can see them from your car.

i think they are attempting to show a general direction, not due north/south/east nor west. could be helpful for a visitor or someone who isn't familiar with the downtown area.

[MidtownCoog]

Lame

[musicman]

but yeah, it is general...especially 59, which runs pretty much due east and west between the west beltway and downtown

i'm thinking of 59 in its entirety that's why i used "general" cause small portions of it go north/south/east and west as does 45.

Edited November 8, 2006 by musicman

[RedScare]

Lame

Tourists are lame.

[musicman]

Lame

concur but many things in life are lame. this is just another.

[Houston19514]

concur but many things in life are lame. this is just another.

There is really nothing lame about it. On the street signs, I believe the N, S, E, and W indicators merely indicate that you are to the North, South, East, or West of the starting place. In Houston, I BELIEVE the north-south starting point is roughly Buffalo Bayou, and I BELIEVE the east-west starting point is Main Street. If a street sign says N, that just means you are on a street that runs in a generally North-South bearing (as opposed to an East-West bearing), and that you are to the North of the dividing point.

From his comments here, I guess MidtownCoog would propose that the street signs, rather than simply saying N, should say N 33 degrees, 12 minutes, 25 seconds, E, or some such level of detail. Of course, that would be totally unworkable; not to mention, the point of the street sign indicators is not to serve as a compass, but just to specify which side of town you are on and which general bearing the street runs in.

[musicman]

There is really nothing lame about it. On the street signs, I believe the N, S, E, and W indicators merely indicate that you are to the North, South, East, or West of the starting place. In Houston, I BELIEVE the north-south starting point is roughly Buffalo Bayou, and I BELIEVE the east-west starting point is Main Street. If a street sign says N, that just means you are on a street that runs in a generally North-South bearing (as opposed to an East-West bearing), and that you are to the North of the dividing point.

Good theory but how would you explain Dallas vs. W Dallas and Gray vs. W Gray? There are numerous streets that have divisions that dont meet your criteria. the signs he was talking about have n/s/e/w on each side.

[SunKing]

On the street signs, I believe the N, S, E, and W indicators merely indicate that you are to the North, South, East, or West of the starting place. ...From his comments here, I guess MidtownCoog would propose that the street signs, rather than simply saying N, should say N 33 degrees, 12 minutes, 25 seconds, E, or some such level of detail. ...

No, I think y'all have mis-understood each other. The signs that MidtownCoog are talking about are downtown big circular signs with N.S.E.W. marked at each quarter circle. They are situated so that main street 'appears' to run directly North/South, and Congress 'appears' to run directly east/west. Of course, looking at a map you can see that the downtown streets don't run directly north/south. So those circle signs are a bit skewed. And yeah, that is a bit lame IMHO.

[RedScare]

Good theory but how would you explain Dallas vs. W Dallas and Gray vs. W Gray? There are numerous streets that have divisions that dont meet your criteria. the signs he was talking about have n/s/e/w on each side.

Totally different deal. The signs downtown are directional aids. W Dallas and W Gray are actual streets.

[sevfiv]

Totally different deal. The signs downtown are directional aids. W Dallas and W Gray are actual streets.

yes, and the streets (gray, pierce, bell, clay, polk, etc) begin "west" around where they break from the original diagonal grid

Edited November 8, 2006 by sevfiv

[MidtownCoog]

They should have just labed these signs 'Up, Down, Right and Left'.

Or take a page from Lake Jackson with "This Way" and "That Way".

[Houston19514]

No, I think y'all have mis-understood each other. The signs that MidtownCoog are talking about are downtown big circular signs with N.S.E.W. marked at each quarter circle. They are situated so that main street 'appears' to run directly North/South, and Congress 'appears' to run directly east/west. Of course, looking at a map you can see that the downtown streets don't run directly north/south. So those circle signs are a bit skewed. And yeah, that is a bit lame IMHO.

Oh, sorry. When he said "street signs" I thought he meant, well, street signs, in the traditional sense, meaning those (usually green) things on the corners of intersections. You're talking about the big "way-finding" signs?

[nmainguy]

Do I have to change my name now?

[Houston19514]

Good theory but how would you explain Dallas vs. W Dallas and Gray vs. W Gray? There are numerous streets that have divisions that dont meet your criteria. the signs he was talking about have n/s/e/w on each side.

You'll notice that the transition from W Dallas to Dallas and W Gray to Gray is at the same point; this is perfectly in concert with my "theory" (and the "W" in "W Dallas" obviously does not mean one is going due West, because then the other side of the street would have to be named "E Dallas"; the "W" in "W Dallas" just inicates that it is a street with a generally east-west bearing and you are to the West of the dividing line). In Houston, as in many cities, there is a sort of "default" whereby streets to one side of the dividing line are stated without stating the direction. So, when you see "Dallas", the East is implied.

(BTW, I got the East-West dividing line wrong, it is not Main Street, but somewhere just to the west of downtown.)

[sevfiv]

(BTW, I got the East-West dividing line wrong, it is not Main Street, but somewhere just to the west of downtown.)

it appears, map-wise, to be where the streets broke away from the original horizontal grid

---

oops, i am tired, i just echoed myself

Edited November 8, 2006 by sevfiv

[dguet]

I read somewhere that the original city grid was oriented to take advantage of the seabreeze. Homes on the grid had their front and back doors and windows oriented with the grid to maximize cooling by the breeze.

As the city grid expanded it drifted away from this basic design.

The grid was probably also influenced by the orientation of the bayou.

[dbigtex56]

It's been my understanding that the street orientation was skewed from directly N/S to minimize the number of bridges needed to span Buffalo Bayou, and that the street grid was layed out by a Mr. Borden (yes, same Borden's as in ice cream.)

And in regard to streets' names and actual directions... isn't it odd that the 78 Alabama bus's route never takes it onto Alabama? A more accurate name would be the W Alabama route.

[SamHouston]

On a somewhat related subject of where W Gray meets Gray:

For some time now, I've been trying to get a handle on where the 'zero' lines fall (i.e. where the address would be 1 N Some St, or 1 W Any Street). I can't tell if it is Main St and the bayou all the way out to Barker Cypress or if it is the latitude and longitude line of where the bayou and Main St. meet (Allen's landing has also been tossed in as a guess).

Things I haven't done yet, but might:

-Call the post office or City Hall or Fire Department

-Plot out all the 1 N Any Streets in Google Earth (partial list: UHD, Bayou Bend, Rainbow Lodge)

-Give up

Finally, wherever these lines are, do you notice/is it true that the odd and even numbers change sides? North of Buffalo Bayou evens on N/S streets are on the East side and South of the bayou they're on the West?

Edited November 9, 2006 by SamHouston