Cypress Village Station Developments

[TheNiche]

More explanation required. What environmental regulations necessitate clearcutting?

We had a discussion about this many months ago. Even well-intentioned developers wanting to preserve trees (and developers are fully aware that trees add significant value) are often forced to remove all but a few of them as a result of various regulations relating to infrastructure and drainage. This is a big factor as to why new sections of The Woodlands have very few trees.

[mrfootball]

Please provide a link to the other thread where they're discussing trees vs. drainage.

Lastly, please don't hijack threads anymore. This was a thread about Metro's Town Center...not about Harris County's inherent issues.

[PureAuteur]

Well, I was actually the first to hijack the thread, which is why I want the bottom half moved to another thread either new or already created. That way people can get back to discussing the Metro Town Center.

[N Judah]

Houston has had a blase'-faire attitude towards development so far, but that doesn't mean it has to always be like that. It's not the one-horse boomtown it once was, and though I hate to disappoint those who moved here specifically to live in a developer's paradise, at some point those people need to understand that the city wasn't built to satisfy them and them alone . . .

[TheNiche]

Please provide a link to the other thread where they're discussing trees vs. drainage.

I've looked for it, but with no luck. I don't remember which section it was in or what it was called. It may even have been the latter section of another hijacked thread...not sure.

If anybody out there remembers where this is, I'd appreciate the help. Thanks.

at some point those people need to understand that the city wasn't built to satisfy them and them alone . . .

And that is precisely the reason that I am strongly against restrictions on land use and other impediments on our freedoms. Land uses aren't implemented there to satisfy the immediate neighbors and the immediate neighbors alone . . .

[mrfootball]

And that is precisely the reason that I am strongly against restrictions on land use and other impediments on our freedoms. Land uses aren't implemented there to satisfy the immediate neighbors and the immediate neighbors alone . . .

You continue to amaze us, Niche. What a brilliantly simplistic way of looking at it. Wow.

[N Judah]

And that is precisely the reason that I am strongly against restrictions on land use and other impediments on our freedoms. Land uses aren't implemented there to satisfy the immediate neighbors and the immediate neighbors alone . . .

According to....you?

[TheNiche]

You continue to amaze us, Niche. What a brilliantly simplistic way of looking at it. Wow.

Yes, it is simple. Especially if you have a full understanding of market dynamics and consumer welfare. I could expand on this for pages if I were so inclined but get the distinct sense that I'd be wasting my time with that.

According to....you?

Yes.

[mrfootball]

Yes, it is simple. Especially if you have a full understanding of market dynamics and consumer welfare. I could expand on this for pages if I were so inclined but get the distinct sense that I'd be wasting my time with that.

Oh wise one...please tell us. Let us be wise in the way of TheNiche.

It's too bad you weren't teaching those classes back in Business school.

A question for Master Niche...

Have you ever lived outside of Houston? Where did you obtain such masterful knowledge of market dynamics and consumer welfare? Tell us, oh learned Niche. Show us the way.

[feufoma]

I've looked for it, but with no luck. I don't remember which section it was in or what it was called. It may even have been the latter section of another hijacked thread...not sure.

If anybody out there remembers where this is, I'd appreciate the help. Thanks.

And that is precisely the reason that I am strongly against restrictions on land use and other impediments on our freedoms. Land uses aren't implemented there to satisfy the immediate neighbors and the immediate neighbors alone . . .

You're entitled to your opinion, but those who share your opinion are part of the reason that Houston is turning into such a dump. Market dynamics my ass. Those same dynamics impact every other city. Yet, Houston tends to stand out as a shining example of how not to develop a city.

[PureAuteur]

I think the only reason I like Houston is because I have acquired a taste for it that requires one to grow up in this city. If I was 25 years old and seeing Houston for the first time after having previously lived in San Diego or Portland, I'd think Houston looked like a puzzle where the pieces are completely out of order.

Apparently, Niche, the Olympics committee didn't seem too keen on your "market dynamics" when they said "no" to Houston as a host city.

Even George W. Bush said "there ought to be limits to freedom". Surely he was referring to urban land development.

I think the Chronicle ran a point-counterpoint story about Houston sprawl, where one writer expressed MrFootball's sentiments and the other saw things similarly to the TheNiche.

[N Judah]

Houston's too subsidized to use it as an example of a free market success. That's all I'm going to say now.

[PureAuteur]

How is Houston subsidized?

[TheNiche]

Oh wise one...please tell us. Let us be wise in the way of TheNiche.

It's too bad you weren't teaching those classes back in Business school.

A question for Master Niche...

Have you ever lived outside of Houston? Where did you obtain such masterful knowledge of market dynamics and consumer welfare? Tell us, oh learned Niche. Show us the way.

I learned from the master: Bart Smith.

And it would've been the Economics Department, actually...B school is oriented toward the private sector. Funny you mention it as you did...a few months ago, I had an old economics professor of mine contact me and try to get me into an Economics Ph.D. program. Though tempting, I decided against it. The benefits simply do not justify the costs; he understood perfectly.

I've lived outside of Austin, in McAllen, and in Houston. Austin was by far the most screwy place, politically...and for me, it lost its charm in the 90's.

[TheNiche]

Apparently, Niche, the Olympics committee didn't seem too keen on your "market dynamics" when they said "no" to Houston as a host city.

Even George W. Bush said "there ought to be limits to freedom". Surely he was referring to urban land development.

I think the Chronicle ran a point-counterpoint story about Houston sprawl, where one writer expressed MrFootball's sentiments and the other saw things similarly to the TheNiche.

I could care less about the Olympics committee. We should not exist for others, but for ourselves.

I'd agree that there are limits to freedoms. For instance, I'd support legislation preventing toxic waste dumps from being within a reasonable distance of somebody's existing home. But prohibiting someone from opening up a business establishment out of their home? Hell no. That's their property and their decision. If the neighbors don't like it, they're free to pursue deed restrictions or to move to a neighborhood that has them.

And if you don't like sprawl, then don't live there and feel free to voice your opinion to as many people as will listen. It is one thing to persuade by argument...it is another to persuade by force.

Yet, Houston tends to stand out as a shining example of how not to develop a city.

For such a poorly-developed city, we sure don't seem to have any problems attracting new residents or businesses.

[mrfootball]

For such a poorly-developed city, we sure don't seem to have any problems attracting new residents or businesses.

I'm sure this guy is living somewhere in our fair city of high standards.

Houston's like a fat girl who'll love anyone who'll love her back. She's not real picky.

[TheNiche]

I'm sure this guy is living somewhere in our fair city of high standards.

Oh my, I hardly expected such a stunning and intellectually-compelling comeback. I concede! Uncle! Uncle!

Houston's like a fat girl who'll love anyone who'll love her back. She's not real picky.

A very weak analogy. Even so, I'd rather be paired up with a loving fat girl than a vapid princess (Dallas) or an overbearing hippie (Austin). The others are just too high-maintenance for my taste.

[N Judah]

How is Houston subsidized?

Billions of dollars spent on freeways that I don't remember voting for (+ billion dollar overages that no one seems to mind)...plus development policies that hinder anything that's not a typical strip center with a larger parking lot....there are other ways, too, but those are the most relevant to houston transportation and visual cityscape.

[N Judah]

I'd agree that there are limits to freedoms. For instance, I'd support legislation preventing toxic waste dumps from being within a reasonable distance of somebody's existing home. But prohibiting someone from opening up a business establishment out of their home? Hell no. That's their property and their decision. If the neighbors don't like it, they're free to pursue deed restrictions or to move to a neighborhood that has them.

I guess what I just don't understand is why you, of all people, are the one who gets to decide what the limits to these freedoms are.

[mrfootball]

Other cities have development codes and planning with a long-term view that helps keep the city livable and takes into account quality of life factors.

In Houston, its a crapshoot.

The really sad part is, that it could be a nice city.

[TheNiche]

I guess what I just don't understand is why you, of all people, are the one who gets to decide what the limits to these freedoms are.

Subject to the 15th, 19th, 23rd, 24th, and 26th amendments, the State of Texas gets to decide whether or not I have a right to vote. And the 1st amendment guarantees my right to espouse my personal beliefs, which is all that I have done here.

If you don't understand why I "am the one" (among millions of others) that get to decide...well that's just pitiful.

Other cities have development codes and planning with a long-term view that helps keep the city livable and takes into account quality of life factors.

I don't like the word "livable". If a place is truely unlivable, people won't live there...and yet our population grows with each passing year!

[mrfootball]

I don't like the word "livable". If a place is truely unlivable, people won't live there...and yet our population grows with each passing year!

Amazingly enough, the same could be said for a Third World country. Brilliant, Niche.

BTW, where in this wonderful city of ours do you live? You seem to be all over these forums, gracing us with your expansive knowledge and brilliant perspectives. How do you find enough time to post on every topic, and still go out and experience all that this wonderful city has to offer?

[TheNiche]

Amazingly enough, the same could be said for a Third World country. Brilliant, Niche.

Yes, it could. That's precisely why I don't like the term 'livable'. It's rhetoric.

BTW, where in this wonderful city of ours do you live? You seem to be all over these forums, gracing us with your expansive knowledge and brilliant perspectives. How do you find enough time to post on every topic, and still go out and experience all that this wonderful city has to offer?

I live in a condo near the TMC. I'm employed in a niche sector of the real estate industry...I get around.

[N Judah]

Subject to the 15th, 19th, 23rd, 24th, and 26th amendments, the State of Texas gets to decide whether or not I have a right to vote. And the 1st amendment guarantees my right to espouse my personal beliefs, which is all that I have done here.

Well, it's just a little ironic considering that everyone who opposes your viewpoint is (essentially) told to shut up and move out. If and when the locals decide to support certain types of development standards, hopefully you will take your own advice, and take all of the other overbearing Austinites with you.

If you don't understand why I "am the one" (among millions of others) that get to decide...well that's just pitiful.

You haven't lived here long enough, but you'll see -- ability to vote is uncorrelated with having any effect on development standards (or lack thereof) and/or spending of taxpayer money. We don't vote for these massive freeway plans, even when they add zero free lanes and go over cost by a billion dollars, and the things we *do* support in referenda - like light rail - are retroactively chop-blocked by all of the carpetbagging limosuine libertarians and their ilk.

[feufoma]

For such a poorly-developed city, we sure don't seem to have any problems attracting new residents or businesses.

Oh, the city does attract business and residents who support those businesses. I won't argue that point. It's a dirt cheap place to live and do business. The aesthetics and quality of life certainly aren't the draw. The new residents and businesses end up moving to a cheap place that looks like a complete dump and they generally end up treating it as such (e.g., the trash on the freeways here is such a nice touch; perhaps the Mayor could press the state to do its job...or not; the decimation of what little greenery there is/ was here is another big plus). Give me a break, man.

Amazingly enough, the same could be said for a Third World country. Brilliant, Niche.

BTW, where in this wonderful city of ours do you live? You seem to be all over these forums, gracing us with your expansive knowledge and brilliant perspectives. How do you find enough time to post on every topic, and still go out and experience all that this wonderful city has to offer?

Niche sounds easy to please. The gist that I get from his posts is: as long as "market dynamics" are at play who cares what the city looks like or how it functions. All that matters is that people are provided with a place to work and sleep. Moreover, the government should have no ability to control development.

I'm curious to know whether Niche has any actual thoughts on how to make Houston better. I have a feeling that the "status quo" is o.k. with him. How quaint.

[N Judah]

I wonder -- did Houston EVER have a populist or utilitarian streak?

[TheNiche]

Well, it's just a little ironic considering that everyone who opposes your viewpoint is (essentially) told to shut up and move out. If and when the locals decide to support certain types of development standards, hopefully you will take your own advice, and take all of the other overbearing Austinites with you.

I'm not sure where you get the "shut up and move out" thing from...but you can rest assured that the day that the City of Houston enacts zoning will be the day that I start looking for a little place in the country. I'd consider moving to another major city without zoning...but there isn't one.

You haven't lived here long enough, but you'll see -- ability to vote is uncorrelated with having any effect on development standards (or lack thereof) and/or spending of taxpayer money. We don't vote for these massive freeway plans, even when they add zero free lanes and go over cost by a billion dollars, and the things we *do* support in referenda - like light rail - are retroactively chop-blocked by all of the carpetbagging limosuine libertarians and their ilk.

We don't vote for massive freeway plans very often, no...but we do vote for those that fund TXDoT and either choose to keep it on a tight leash or let it go wild. That's how a representative democracy works. And actually, yes, we do vote for Culberson, Clutterbuck, and a number of other folks who seek to impede the development of an LRT system. And trust me, they're Republicans, not Libertarians. Philosophically pure Libertarians are hard to distinguish from anarchists.

[TheNiche]

Oh, the city does attract business and residents who support those businesses. I won't argue that point. It's a dirt cheap place to live and do business. The aesthetics and quality of life certainly aren't the draw. The new residents and businesses end up moving to a cheap place that looks like a complete dump and they generally end up treating it as such (e.g., the trash on the freeways here is such a nice touch; perhaps the Mayor could press the state to do its job...or not; the decimation of what little greenery there is/ was here is another big plus). Give me a break, man.

This city has its pros and cons, but it is not unique. There is no such place as utopia.

The tricky thing is devising policy so that the pros and cons net out such that benefit to the citizenry is maximized. And the growth rate is a good indicator of that. If you want cleaner freeways, you're going to have to raise taxes or take the money from other programs to do it. Is it worth that? If you want to protect green spaces, you'll have to remove developable land from the market, forcing land prices up. That makes the cost of living and of doing business higher. Just another tradeoff...

Niche sounds easy to please. The gist that I get from his posts is: as long as "market dynamics" are at play who cares what the city looks like or how it functions. All that matters is that people are provided with a place to work and sleep. Moreover, the government should have no ability to control development.

I'm curious to know whether Niche has any actual thoughts on how to make Houston better. I have a feeling that the "status quo" is o.k. with him. How quaint.

What matters is that people are made happy. On a more fundamental level, I firmly believe that if you leave people to their own devices and allow them the resources that they're willing to create, they'll do a better job at making themselves happy than the government will ever be able to. The same applies to urban planning. In the long run, people tend to segregate into like-minded subcultural groups, creating unique neighborhoods without being prompted by the government. The best thing that the government can do is to not actively interfere with policy that favors one group and disenfranchises another.

Houston is overregulated. We need to trim the fat and simplify development regulations that apply to all parts of the city. Then pass more power down to the neighborhood and individual level. We're too big a city to have brightline policies that apply throughout. The 25-foot setback rule that afflicts Midtown is a good example of the kind of thing that I'd like to get rid of.

I'd also like to see a major overhaul of rules impacting development standards that get passed down to us from the TCEQ and EPA. Not all of them are bad, but there are some that are too restrictive or even destructive...and there are many that serve no purpose at all except to build a bureaucracy. With respect to the development of mass transit infrastructure, I believe that the FTA rules should be rebuilt from the ground up to better evaluate the true benefit of mass transit. Ridership by itself is not a sufficient measure.

[PureAuteur]

Niche, while I agree with you on neighborhoods being free to enact deed restrictions (which have helped many original Houston and Cypress neighborhoods to retain their value, good residents, and aesthetics), I would disagree on your views of "trimming the fat". Development inside loop 610 actually looks nice because of that "fat". You said you lived around TMC? What is that anyways? If you've ever been to the NW side of Houston out 290... well just NW on 290 and exit 1960. Then drive down 1960 about 5 miles in either direction from 290. I'm sure though, with your view of the world, the clutter, lack of community feel, traffic, chaotic-feel of the area, and lack of trees will elude your critical sensors.

Just because "free market dynamics" works, doesn't mean that they create cities that are pleasant to live in. Way back about 10 years ago during the end of the industrial age, Houston was still a fairly decent city to look at. Now that our economy has adapted from the end of the industrial revolution into the service industry and information era, it allows for a seemingly infinite amount of jobs all over the city, especially in the suburban areas. It also allows for the growth of the lower class, lower middle class, and working apartment dwelling class. This type of growth isn't going to give you too many neighborhoods like Timbergrove Manor at 11th and TC Jester and Longwood at Spring Cypress and Telge. You're going to get a lot of sprawl and a lot of junk. If Houston gets any worse in the next 10 years, I bet even you, Niche, will start packing your bags and questioning your own opinions and beliefs.

[TheNiche]

Niche, while I agree with you on neighborhoods being free to enact deed restrictions (which have helped many original Houston and Cypress neighborhoods to retain their value, good residents, and aesthetics), I would disagree on your views of "trimming the fat". Development inside loop 610 actually looks nice because of that "fat". You said you lived around TMC? What is that anyways? If you've ever been to the NW side of Houston out 290... well just NW on 290 and exit 1960. Then drive down 1960 about 5 miles in either direction from 290. I'm sure though, with your view of the world, the clutter, lack of community feel, traffic, chaotic-feel of the area, and lack of trees will elude your critical sensors.

TMC = Texas Medical Center. But I don't cocoon myself within the Loop...it would be professionally imprudent.

I know all about 1960. I was up that way just a couple of weeks ago on personal business, and then a couple of months before that for professional business. It is suburbia...nothing shocking about that. In fact, suburbia is the anti-shock...very few surprises. I've worked on several projects out that way over the past many years, including issues pertaining to a few subdivisions, an apartment complex, and also to the Vintage.

Just because "free market dynamics" works, doesn't mean that they create cities that are pleasant to live in. Way back about 10 years ago during the end of the industrial age, Houston was still a fairly decent city to look at. Now that our economy has adapted from the end of the industrial revolution into the service industry and information era, it allows for a seemingly infinite amount of jobs all over the city, especially in the suburban areas. It also allows for the growth of the lower class, lower middle class, and working apartment dwelling class. This type of growth isn't going to give you too many neighborhoods like Timbergrove Manor at 11th and TC Jester and Longwood at Spring Cypress and Telge. You're going to get a lot of sprawl and a lot of junk. If Houston gets any worse in the next 10 years, I bet even you, Niche, will start packing your bags and questioning your own opinions and beliefs.

I never used the phrase "free market dynamics". Only "market dynamics". An understanding of market dynamics can be applied to both regulated and unregulated environments as a means of helping policy makers forsee and hopefully avoid unintended consequences.

Not much has changed in 10 years, except that there is renewed interest in inner-city living. That's really about it. There are only potentials for a finite number of jobs; the service industry jobs are inherently dependent upon the creation of new white and blue collar jobs. The distribution of those jobs is tending to move outside of the city, but that was in line with what one would expect with or without zoning in Houston...that's certainly been a long-run trend in many other large metro areas.

You seem to not like that there are so many low-skill jobs out there, but would you prefer that they not exist at all? What about the people that work those jobs? Perhaps you just want them out of your neighborhood? Well where should they go? Whose problem should they be if not a shared problem? The poor exist everywhere and in every city. Houston is not unique.

If Houston gets any worse in the next 10 years, I bet even you, Niche, will start packing your bags and questioning your own opinions and beliefs.

If by "worse" you mean an environment where many more of the poor have jobs (as opposed to not having them) and a relatively higher percentage of them are able to afford homes of their very own, even if those homes aren't much to look at and are packed onto small lots that couldn't handle any trees, then not only will I stick around, but I'll enjoy rubbing your nose in it.