Villagio Town Center: Mixed-Use In Katy

[cla]

Seems like they didn't market it very well. Some advertising with some specials, kids eat free nights, etc would get the people back in - I don't ever remember seeing anything like this in the mail.

Not about Wings and Rings, but I speaking of marketing, I went to the grand opening of Homegoods (at 99 and Westheimer) yesterday around 10:30 or so and although I thought there was a very good crowd, I overheard a manager saying that it was not a good grand opening.

[Mr. B]

I wouldn't say the food at Buffalo Wings and Rings was bad as I ate there on quite a few occasions. The wings were actually very good since they were different being in the wet state I was skeptical but after trying them like this I really liked them. The other food was on par for that type of place. Have to admit they didn't advertise but I don't think this would have saved them. Katy and Cinco Ranch are the same as they have been for years. A graveyard for startups/mom and pops, no support for the smaller places except for a few. Aside from that its asses and elbows in the typical chain joints.

I can tell you what the 3 times I went to the hooters on I-10 with my family were the last for a long time as that was just pathetic in service and food quality. Each time I waited a while to hope it got better and it didn't it was actually worse. The last trip was actually the worst wings I have ever eaten in my life and just left them there as the manager didn't seem to care.

Well hopefully the BW3's rumor is true.

If you expect to open a place here you should be prepared to do very little business or take a loss for at least 2 years to see if you will make it. There are a couple of exceptions but then again we'll see how long they last. I am very good freinds with the owners of Chin Won and Rocco's and it took them about 2 years to see if they would make it and get some long term clients and even after many more years they still do not get the business they deserve. I am sure its like this for some other small establishments as well.

My clock is on the new med style joint that just opened up over off of South Mason and Westhiemer Parkway. The 2 year clock is on them.

[cla]

A graveyard for startups/mom and pops, no support for the smaller places except for a few. Aside from that its asses and elbows in the typical chain joints.

In my 3 years here I have noticed the same. Why is this? Is it because the area is full of newly arrived residents who trust a name they know (the chains) rather than venture out and try the unknown? I am used to small local restaurants and myself and some of my coworkers have lamented the lack of "hole in the walls" in Katy, but maybe the area has a completely different vibe that doesn't support the mom and pop's.

Whatever the reason, it is a shame, because the best food can be found in these places. Some have survived here in Katy - like Texas Borders. But when I mention this or other similar restaurants to my fellow Katy co-workers, many have never heard of it.

So reasons could be...

1. new residents reluctant to try the unknown

2. lack of advertising

3. food really sucks

4. people don't eat out much in katy

5. lack of variety

6. people not eating out due to lack of healthy eating establishments (lots of young, health conscience resident seem to live around her)

7. oversaturation in type of food (how many mexican or wings type of restaurants does an area really need?)

It would really be interesting to find out why an area with the money to spend isn't spending it.

[bman]

Bman,

Would you happen to know what the replacement will be?

Also, this wing place has gone down hill. It started out ok...not great...and got worse and worse.

I had a feeling it wasn't going to last...especially with much better choices in the same center. (Azzerelli's, BerryHill, etc.)

Also, I wonder when the Greek restaraunt will open...

We haven't finalized the lease yet, and because of the circumstances I can't announce who's going in. But... think sports...

[bcnet]

I would really like a Texadelphia to go in there. It's already set up with a "sports-bar" like theme. It is a local/regional "chain" so that would upset some folks, but I bet it would have a lot better chance of surviving. There are tons of younger folks that are now married and live in the Cinco that used to frequent Texadelphia "in town" when they were single or without kids. If its non-smoking it could be a family friendly place with good food but still a place where you grab a bucket of beer and watch the game with the guys.

[CandW]

I agree....people tend to migrate (graze) where others do...

As far as think sports B....sports bar or sporting goods?

[Mr. B]

I don't know I have been here over 11 years and in years past people frequented the mom and pop's I think because they were familiar and comfortable plus that was what was out this way before all the chains came in. As people moved out and the Gymboree cult moved in things changed. They only eat at chain resturants that they know or familiar with or just don't eat out at all much.

As I said on any given night at the chain's its asses and elbows for sub par food while smaller no name places with fantastic food and different types of food go half empty to empty.

Shame that what people think is good food comes from a chain resturant. Guess being from South La and pretty much making it a point to go to the dives and mom & pops over the chains gives me a different perspective (in South La that is where the good food is found)Then again majority of the people I knew back home could cook better food out of their garage than most of the fine dining establishments.

I do eat at the chains from time to time.

[livincinco]

Shame that what people think is good food comes from a chain resturant. Guess being from South La and pretty much making it a point to go to the dives and mom & pops over the chains gives me a different perspective (in South La that is where the good food is found)Then again majority of the people I knew back home could cook better food out of their garage than most of the fine dining establishments.

I think you have to consider the demographic of the area, though. While my kids were growing up, we went to Chili's and Applebee's a lot. Not because we thought the food was good, but because it was a workable compromise. They have food and an atmosphere that works for kids, while most independant restaurants are more geared to adults.

I love to support mom & pops, but there are not a lot in the area that I would consider "family friendly".

[bcnet]

I love to support mom & pops, but there are not a lot in the area that I would consider "family friendly".

There is definitely some truth to this as I have a 4 and 2 year old. The chains seem to do a much better job of being family friendly with atmosphere, menu and things such as kiddy cups with lids and "bendy" straws.

Someone mentioned Texas Borders in a prior post - we eat there every once in a while as the kids really do like the playground and its not a chain so its something different. But an annoying thing they do is they bring our kids milk in a "adult" sized styrofoam cup! Our kids have no problem drinking out of a child's sized cup, but anyone who has kids knows styrofoam is not a good choice for kids. About 5 minutes after the waitress brought the milk, sure enough the 2 year old poked a couple of fingers through the cup and covered himself in milk

[TexasVines]

I think there are several reasons especially in the Katy area

People there eat out for convenience and with kids they will probably be pickier eaters so there is no room for lack of consistency or food out of the main stream

Mom and Pops often suffer from consistency issues and or they serve foods that most kids will not like as well as chains.....so it is easiest to go to the place where a known exist and everyone probably has an idea what they will get before they walk in the door

If they want something "mom and pop style" they will probably cook at home that night.....I think people still use those stainless and granite filled kitchens....so mom and pop to them means mom and or pop or both actually cook it........eating out is for a known consistent hassle free experience

With a family it is too big of a risk to try out a mom and pop place..............at lunch as an adult going somewhere alone it is cheaper and less dicey to go to mom and pop and try it than with a family in tow......but then the adult lives further away from the mom and pop place they frequent for lunch.....or it is only open for lunch (probably because it is in a business area).....so the family never gets there.....the adult can also get a recommendation from co-workers.........but once back in the Katy area the recommendations are less frequent because of the above issues....people not taking a risk with a family in tow

Mom and pop places do not offer a broad enough menu for todays picky family units.......or the alternatives they do offer are not up to par for the picky eater to be happy or they are actually not that good because the owner is mad they even had to offer them

while there are plenty of chains I don't like the issue is usually the style of food they offer or what they have sacrificed to mass it up

I happen to think Chilis is pretty good across the board on everything they make.....I think people can pick individual items and say some other place is so much better, but across the board I think they do well......their burgers are still very good and so are their fajitas and nachos

I have on the whole had many more bad experiences at "mom and pop" and "local places" than any chain and that is anywhere I have ever lived.....if it is not poor service, it is just a dirty place, or lack of consistency, or things changing up too often, or not keeping the hours posted on the door, or being out of items.....and you can mix a bunch of those all together....even the mom and pop places I like I can easily see why families are not beating down the door to get in the place

Restaurants are WAY harder than most mom and pop owners think....you can get way better steaks at some places than many chains, but are you really going to drag a family there and pay those prices when some of them might not want steaks.....there are great burger places....but everything else besides their burgers blow......so they are out.......same with a BBQ place......most offer little if anything but BBQ....so out for a family.........same with a great seafood place.....mom and pop ones often have horrible items besides seafood or they have a burger or a grilled cheese and both are nothing special....so they are out

[cla]

Yes, I have a teenage daughter who always wants to go to Chili's. She seldom wants to try out something new and wants to be able to look over the menu online before trying a new place, and if there isn't any nutritional information on the online menu - forget it.

[Tigerjag]

If they want something "mom and pop style" they will probably cook at home that night.....I think people still use those stainless and granite filled kitchens....so mom and pop to them means mom and or pop or both actually cook it........eating out is for a known consistent hassle free experience

With a family it is too big of a risk to try out a mom and pop place..............

I agree with this. When our kids were little, we never took them anywhere we didn't know. If my husband and I couldn't visit before hand and check it out, we didn't go to the hole in the wall places. We cooked in our tile and copper kitchen.

Since I've lived in Katy over 25 years, we've seen lots of mom n pop places come and go. The only one that has lasted is El Jarrito. It's boomed, in fact. Some people never eat mexican food any where else. I liked it on Mason @ Cimarron Parkway. I don't like it at all since it opened on Highland Knolls and put in that giant, filthy sandbox. (Besides, I never though they had picante sauce (or hot sauce). It just tastes like onion sauce to me.) My kids are grown. I no longer frequent establishments with sandboxes.

Even with kids, though, we did visit lots of restaurants up and down Mason that are no longer there. Einsteins Pub used to be a great Mexican restaurant. Starbucks was where a cute place called... Spotz, maybe? We ate there under a couple of incarnations, and it was good. Our favorite pizza place was called Pizza To Go. They made it and you took it home and cooked it. It was excellent, but short-lived.

[CandW]

Yea, I remember when Little Ceaser's first moved into the Katy market (Kingsland and Mason) they did not deliver and they didn't cook the pizza, you ordered it, then took it home to eat...there used to be a sandwich shop in that same center...I think it was called john and diane's or something like that...it had the best philly samiches...too bad places like that don't exhist any longer...Regarding kids and trying new places out...going against what seems to be the norm around here....I always make it a point to take the kiddo along...she is now much older, but by doing that, it gave me instent feed back on if we would go back...if she didn't like it, lol...we didn't go back, period. BUT by doing that, it opened her palate up to new adventures, lol...some of her favorite places to eat provide food that most kids her age don't even attempt to eat...and please, don't take any of my comments personally...it's just how I chose to entertain my daughter when it comes to food...some of the places we have tried were so bad, it was a good thing they didn't last very long, lol....Yea, I use my kiddo as a barometer....most of the time she's spot on....if we find a dish we both like, then we try to reconstruct it at home with our own twists...this practice gets the kids involved in cooking dinner and understanding what works and what does not work....and sometimes...we come up with a twist that makes the dish better....IMO...

[FalconRanch1]

Once in a while you just plainly get sick and tired of eating out. Cooking at home has its advantages and disadvantages, However the pros outweigh the cons. People around here have the budgets to cook a nice meal at home, freshly prepared. They really care about what they are eating (Not saying that eating out is bad!!), and they want to care of themselves at all costs. So that could be part of it, By personal experience, If i find a place that I like, IT means that this place is clean, fairly priced, It has great tasting food, and great customer service. For Example, Pei-Wei Cuisine on Mason Rd/Highland Knolls 3/4 Sunday's the entire family eats there. It sounds crazy but their food is excellent! Thus, we hesitate to go somewhere else because we already know what we like, we have already tried it, and there is no reason to go experiment with something else that we may not like. I have noticed however, that some new restaurants hardly do ANY advertising, Next thing you know and they are out of business. Just my .02

[crunchtastic]

Pei Wei is barely a step above McDonalds. "wings" are vinegar flavored deep fried chicken.

Learn to cook. Learn to shop for food. I work long hours, my partner works long hours , we cook, we eat at home, and we eat well. Just like my mother, who still lives in Katy, and worked outside the home, and still fed a family nearly every night, in the dark days of the 70s and 80s before rotisserie chicken.

[katyresident]

Pei Wei is barely a step above McDonalds. "wings" are vinegar flavored deep fried chicken.

Learn to cook. Learn to shop for food. I work long hours, my partner works long hours , we cook, we eat at home, and we eat well. Just like my mother, who still lives in Katy, and worked outside the home, and still fed a family nearly every night, in the dark days of the 70s and 80s before rotisserie chicken.

Um..no. Sorry that's not enough credit for Pei-Wei. I find the food to be really good and I am not alone...

[Mr. B]

Some of these post show exactly what I meant.

The new influx of people eat nothing but the chains for the most part. That is all they know and all they will eat with no intentions of venturing outside that safety net. As for the excuse about the kids not eating that is a cop out. I have a kid and can tell you she does not determine where we eat. She can either eat or not but in most cases she has a very wide palate because we have taken here to experience many differnent foods. She loves italian, chinese, mexican, and vegetables just as much as old mcdonalds. Most of the smaller places may not have the expansive menus, play grounds or the wants to let you kids run amok like most but that is understandable. Most of the smaller places or mom & pops go out of there way to provide us with what we need for our child. They may not have bendy straws, and pure junk food, etc but if that is as some of you say determines where you eat leaves me to believe things are pretty sad on the food front for most.

I cook and shop and work long hours but still go out to enjoy some finer dining other than the chili's, pie wies, etc because if that is what is becoming my only options out here I will be eating in more often.

[musicman]

must be katy phenomenon since many of the more recent posters appear to be from there.

[sevenmeadows]

The problem my husband and I had with Wings and Rings is the cheap arcade atmosphere that greets you the minute you walk in the door. Even when we're looking for a casual dining experience, grungy arcade is not what we have in mind.

We frequent many other restaurants in the area, especially Azzarelli's which is located in the same shopping center, but were just very disappointed with the atmosphere at Wings and Rings.

[bcnet]

We haven't finalized the lease yet, and because of the circumstances I can't announce who's going in. But... think sports...

bman,

Is the "sports" related tenant still a go?

[bcnet]

Looks like Stadia Sports Grill will be coming to this spot in Villagio

Stadia Sports Grill

[fingtxcwby]

Yes - you won't even be able to tell that the other buildings are not part of the original development.

And for those who are interested - Buffalo Wings and Rings just opened Tuesday. They brought us some samples, and they are fantastic!

I noticed Lord Byron's cigar bar has already closed its doors. Does any one know why. I was really looking foward to going to it.

[Mr. B]

Hmmm that looks interesting.

[Mr. B]

There used to be a very good resturant in Old Katy right off the main strip. I wish I could remember the name but it had a lot of mediterranean/spanish type meals.

No kids allowed very nice place to eat. All of a sudden after many years and excellent reviews they drug up and moved to where I don't remember exactly but was inside the loop supposidly.

Spoke to some people in Katy that knew the owner and according to them he moved locations because he felt his resturant would go over better in that part of town. The strange thing is the place was always full when in Katy on most nights and on weekends we always had to make reservations far in advance.

Last I heard they didn't stay open for business to long after the move, but I can't say for sure on this.

If someone from Katy many years ago remembers this place and has any info to share please do. My curiosity of what actually happend to them is peaked again.

[stevearino]

I noticed Lord Byron's cigar bar has already closed its doors. Does any one know why. I was really looking foward to going to it.

Well, first off the guy didn't pay his rent for 3 months straight, just like the buffalo wings and rings. Second, he built this grandiose place that would have been great in La Centerra or another visible place, but the Villagio does no advertising. Thus, no traffic, no way of knowing the place is there.

I'm sure he took a hit in the stock market too.

[Standeck]

Received a newsletter from the new proprietors of The Angel and The Ox, the Irish themed pub going in at Villagio. Build out is continuing, looks like HVAC going in this week. They're on track to open before Christmas this year.

They've got their liquor license and have hired assistant managers. Bands (three) are booked for the first few weeks. "Knobs & Knockers" (heh!) Happy Hour from 4 ~ 7 PM Monday through Thursday, whole lot of sports channels lined up. 10% off your food order when you wear one of their silly shirts (that could pay for itself pretty quickly), see the website.

Mr. B - was it Tognetti's?

[Mr. B]

It was Barcelona's

[HermanPark]

I noticed Lord Byron's cigar bar has already closed its doors. Does any one know why. I was really looking foward to going to it.

Spoke with someone today - not sure of how legit the source, so take it with a grain of salt - who stated that the there are back rents owed and perhaps even some build out fees outstanding. The place is still stocked and appears that you could go right in and open shop. I was also told that they might have others interested in acquiring the space. So it appears that Lord Byron is Lord no more.

[BedHead_Katy]

Spoke with someone today - not sure of how legit the source, so take it with a grain of salt - who stated that the there are back rents owed and perhaps even some build out fees outstanding. The place is still stocked and appears that you could go right in and open shop. I was also told that they might have others interested in acquiring the space. So it appears that Lord Byron is Lord no more.

Sounds as though the Villagio owners are "flippers", build a pretty place and resell. I only found out about this place when I drove by, but you see ads for La Centerra every where. They need to take a lesson from the LC owners. Three of the Villagio stores have failed, wings place, Lord Byrons and the paper store. Wonder how the jeweler and clothing placing are doing. We go to the bookworm often, but it is rarely what I would call busy. La Centerra is always booming.

[bman]

Sounds as though the Villagio owners are "flippers", build a pretty place and resell. I only found out about this place when I drove by, but you see ads for La Centerra every where. They need to take a lesson from the LC owners. Three of the Villagio stores have failed, wings place, Lord Byrons and the paper store. Wonder how the jeweler and clothing placing are doing. We go to the bookworm often, but it is rarely what I would call busy. La Centerra is always booming.

Don't think you can call these failures:

1. Buffalo Wings and Rings - the owner was NEVER there - had a full time job elsewhere. Was his first ever restaurant. Overbuilt to the hilt for a Wing store, and paid no attention to demographics, his food was horrible, and he hired kids that had no concept of the meaning of work. My opinion - he never really tried.

2. Lord Byron's never opened for business, so technically he didn't fail.

3. The Paper Store is still open for business.

None of these 'failures' had anything to do with location. But I agree, more center-wide advertising would help.