Downtown Retail Market

[The Great Hizzy!]

Yeah, the place is called Topz, IIRC.

Also,

There's a new convenience store on Travis @ Rusk (NB side). Looks clean and promising, though the selections appear to be limited.

[H-Town Man]

Great info from our correspondent downtown. I love the part about overhearing the conversation on MetroRail about the UH expansion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the SE corner of Fannin and Congress the old courthouse?

[RedScare]

Great info from our correspondent downtown.  I love the part about overhearing the conversation on MetroRail about the UH expansion.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the SE corner of Fannin and Congress the old courthouse?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good call, H-Town.. The SE corner IS the 1900 courthouse, slated for renovation to original granduer, once the new civil courthouse is completed. The SW corner is the Pillot Bldg. Surely that would not be razed. In fact, every corner of that intersection is owned by Harris County.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Great info from our correspondent downtown. I love the part about overhearing the conversation on MetroRail about the UH expansion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the SE corner of Fannin and Congress the old courthouse?

Yeah, that's my fault. It should be Commerce.

[RedScare]

Yeah, that's my fault. It should be Commerce.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice recovery, Hiz.

I could see something being done at Fannin and Commerce. I believe the only thing at that SE corner is a shell of a building being used for parking. And UHD already built a new building across Fannin from there.

[kjb434]

i really would like to see UofH downtown expand to become a major prominence an the north side of downtown. Urban universities add a great facet to a downtown by potentially having people in the area 24/7. Especially if dorms or campus apartments evetually get built.

[MidtownCoog]

And UHD already built a new building across Fannin from there.

It's a nice looking building. I just wonder why they stopped at three stories?

[RedScare]

It's a nice looking building.  I just wonder why they stopped at three stories?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me, too. They are talking about the explosion in student population, but then use an entire city block for a 3 story building.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Budgetary constraints at the time of planning and designing?

[The Great Hizzy!]

They've been working hard on this site for a few months now. Looks to be a fairly ambitous undertaking, too. It's the old location of Logan's Roadhouse and Barcode (the club). Barcode's best moment was during SB week when they had live dancers outside that stroked the ire of the guy holding the tall sign rebuking partiers. Too bad they decide to use the SB as their going away bash.

In any event, does our resident retail expert (Houston Retail or Houston Development) have any info on this?

[RedScare]

A buddy of mine offices above this place. He says it bites, but it may be because we all thought the name was lame. I'll call him again for an update.

[dbigtex56]

He says it bites, but it may be because we all thought the name was lame.

So change it to Brokeback Manor. A gay cowboy theme bar might be just what downtown needs.

[The Great Hizzy!]

"Laidback Manor" does sound pretty weak. But I have to admit that at the very least, they're putting down some serious coin to upgrade the facilities. Looks like the Barcode section has been all but finished.

And, Tex, you clearly waited a good twenty minutes before you thought of that.

[dbigtex56]

And, Tex, you clearly waited a good twenty minutes before you thought of that.

Yeah, I hesitated - but someone had to say it.

[Htowngirl]

The restaurant, Laidback manor has been open for weeks... laidback manor Website.

A gay cowboy theme bar might be just what downtown needs.

Well, Midtown already has one... if you're looking.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Htowngirl

[RedScare]

I'm going to back off my previous comment. My buddy thought it was going to be a bar/lounge, and thought the layout sucked...and for a bar, maybe it does. But, clearly, this place is a bit above bar, so his editorial is a bit off.

The name still sucks, though. dbigtex' may work better.

[The Great Hizzy!]

The website suggests that the place is awfully "froofy".

[h-townsfinest]

I know we complain and talk a lot about what downtown needs, and i agree with about 95% of all of yall, let me say though that its COMPETITION that drives an area, not just businesses, Houston Pavilions is going to compete with Bayou Place as well as Houston Center, its those businesses that right now feel they have it so good, but when the new kid hits the block its a whole new ballgame, and let me say those same businesses are going to upgrade and try and attract people away from Houston Pavilions, thats whats going to start the boom, the city is doing its part with building the stadiums downtown, lightrail, etc. etc., but without competition, business has no real reason to be downtown without people, Houston Center made me sick the last time i went down there, they did all this stuff with new signs and lights, but you step inside and nothing has changed, businesses were unprepared for guess what? a freakin cheerleading competition at GRB, think about if it were something greater, like say the NCAA mens basketball tourney, Houston Pavilions will be the crown jewel for south downtown and great competition and boom for a new city

[MidtownCoog]

Have you seen the Houston Center ads in 2 Houston? It looks like David Lettmen with a limp wrist shopping and talking on a cell phone.

They crack me up.

Proff positive that Houston Center is not serious about improvements.

[h-townsfinest]

LOL yea maybe your right, but it would be more their loss than anyone once this thing is complete, usually when we take people from out of town to houston, we usually go to a ballgame or stay on the north side of downtown, try and keep them away from the undeveloped vacant building of south downtown, but man this is mind boggling news for a city in desperate need of something like this, something with class, and i dont know about you but i think the whole Foley's to Macy's change could have a better impact for downtown, something nationally known to me is better progress, then throw in a Houston House and you got things poppin, lol

[emirate25]

I know that 6th degrees lounge/bar closed its doors not so long ago...do you know if they are going to reopen anything new in that space?

6th degrees used to be located at the bottom of the bayou lofts building.

[mainvoice]

I have been reading a whole lot about several other areas that are planning on developing more retail product. I am going to use the Galleria area as an example because I think we can agree it is doing fine.When you compare downtown to the galleria there is at lease 3x the amount of office space and it is a stronger office market. Industrial product is pretty much non existant in both submarkets-"equal for both". This leaves retail. I think everyone will start perhaps by saying it doesn't have enough existing residential, but I don't quite believe this because of proximity to Midtown. Then there are those who say that there aren't enough other retailers there already, which is the reason for this topic. I don't think it's the reason however for someone deciding to lease or not lease retail space downtown...The daytime population is in my estimation is significantly greater downtown-hands down. I think that there is not anything to do between 5pm-10pm downtown, and I think this really hurts. We have the people that come downtown to work and then we have the group that comes after 10 pm to play which is fine with bars and restaurants. We don't have anything for people to do from 5pm -10 pm, so I guess we don't have people coming down there to shop, and hence a tremendous lack of traditional retailers at street level ? Then you read about fake urban developments,etc. and how they are built out in the middle of no where and how successful they are, but it is my understanding that real "urban" developments are still far better. Dowtown is as real as urban gets. Whether or not Houston Pavilions makes I think downtown has a lot to offer right now and will continue to. I am very pro-pavilions, but there is more to downtown that the pavilions. There are so many residential projects popping up, and think that along the way we should already have seen a lot more retail projects along the way. Perhaps there is to much focus on the big projects and too many landlords along Main Street, perhaps a change in strategy is due ? I don't think you could make a better "fake" urban development (with gravy) one of these if you tried, it's as if it has a head-start over a lot of developments when you look at what it has to offer,etc. Fake urban and new retail developments come on line to fulfil a particular need and depend heavily on timing so as to not be outdated before they actually complete construction. There are far more givens for a developer to count on in downtown.In downtown time is on its side, and it's an Urban Gold Mine. What's the solution ? Is it even on the map from a retail standpoint ? What is it about downtown that isn't getting told to the right people ? I don't know if there needs to be such a concentration on what more to have, it has it all and how to improve it because it is really great, but I think it really just needs to be pushed and placed in front of the right people ? Downtown needs to have a concentrated effort of marketing enough to the right groups perhaps ?

[MexAmerican_Moose]

i agree, we need more retail.....if would be sweet if they put a Foot Action, Foot Locker, or a NikeTown there.. i would go there to buy my shoes.

[TheNiche]

Your analogy to a gold mine is more profound than you know. Although many naturally-occurring gold deposits have a few nuggets at or near the surface, most of the value is underground.

[TJones]

Mainvoice, why do you feel the compulsion to type EVERYTHING in one breath ? I know there has to be a couple of paragraphs in that post somewhere. The words start to run together for me about halfway through.

Good info though.

Edited June 27, 2006 by TJones

[MidtownCoog]

Downtown needs a miracle. We can't even support an Office Supply store.

I took light rail today and met a nice lady from France at the Main St. Square Station. She asked "where is everyone"?

My reply? Houston is very spread out, and downtown is mostly workers. This was at 11:00.

[TJones]

Downtown needs a miracle. We can't even support an Office Supply store.

I took light rail today and met a nice lady from France at the Main St. Square Station. She asked "where is everyone"?

My reply? Houston is very spread out, and downtown is mostly workers. This was at 11:00.

You know, even in the old pictures that are posted on this forum. I have never seen a large amount of people just walking around here in Houston. Lots of cars, no people. I am sure the Hellish Houston summer weather may be a reason, we park as close as we can to the buildings and scurry to get inside to the A/C that is making us FAT !

[mainvoice]

Downtown needs a miracle. We can't even support an Office Supply store.

I took light rail today and met a nice lady from France at the Main St. Square Station. She asked "where is everyone"?

My reply? Houston is very spread out, and downtown is mostly workers. This was at 11:00.

Really. I have not heard about an office supply store downtown that failed recently ?

[mainvoice]

Your analogy to a gold mine is more profound than you know. Although many naturally-occurring gold deposits have a few nuggets at or near the surface, most of the value is underground.

I don't understand ?? The gold nugget is really the surface or the dirt using your example. I think the tunnel should be considered more as a floor just like any other floor in a building but perhaps with a somewhat diff. purpose, unless of course you think the buildings above it are worthless...I am talking about street level, the tunnel is glorified deli space (ha-ha) to an extent because it has a built in demand generators which are the office buildings above it which it is very dependant upon. No offense, but I think that street level retail will and should have much more wide appeal. The tunnels are tapped out and land locked. I am trying to ask for input about what could be done to change the existing street retail environment.

[TheNiche]

I don't understand ?? The gold nugget is really the surface or the dirt using your example. I think the tunnel should be considered more as a floor just like any other floor in a building but perhaps with a somewhat diff. purpose, unless of course you think the buildings above it are worthless...I am talking about street level, the tunnel is glorified deli space (ha-ha) to an extent because it has a built in demand generators which are the office buildings above it which it is very dependant upon. No offense, but I think that street level retail will and should have much more wide appeal. The tunnels are tapped out and land locked. I am trying to ask for input about what could be done to change the existing street retail environment.

You're right...the demand from office workers for convenience retail is fulfilled by the tunnels (and to some extent by cafeterias that are built into a few of the larger office tenants' facilities)...and guess what kinds of businesses generate the most pedestrian traffic? The tunnels have historically been built and expanded in sections along with the construction of large new office buildings, thus incrementally fulfilling the perponderance of demand for convenience retail space.

But what it seems that you really want is destination retail. Typical destination-type stores (i.e. grocery, office supply, home improvement, etc.) frequently require lots of contiguous floorspace that is priced in such a way that their financial objectives can be met and also require the frequent use of loading docks. Although some office buildings can be remodeled to accomodate these needs, very few preexisting large buildings can do so effectively and concurrently accomodate tenant relocations and other typical building operations.

Pavilions may change this dynamic by creating a draw of outsiders to the CBD, but I'm honestly very doubtful that it can create the critical mass by itself or in conjunction with the 13-acre park that can change the character of the entirety of downtown Houston.

Changing the street environment (if it is actually desirable to do so) requires two steps:

1) Build lots of new stuff (add people).

2) Don't build any new tunnels (and possibly backfill the ones we've got).

I personally think that you'd be wrong to do this, however. People use tunnels rather than crosswalks for a reason. They like them. If they didn't, then the retailers would be at street-level already...unless of course you think that they're all just a bunch of dummies.

Edited June 28, 2006 by TheNiche