Fringe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 This all comes back to the fact that we pretty much know what we are getting with McCain, like it or not, but no one really knows what the hell we are getting with Obama. Muslim? Christian? Manchurian candidate? Who the hell knows for sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniepwils Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 This all comes back to the fact that we pretty much know what we are getting with McCain, like it or not, but no one really knows what the hell we are getting with Obama. Muslim? Christian? Manchurian candidate? Who the hell knows for sure?Why does it matter? This isn't The United States of Religion's... It is The United States of America, and the last time I checked we had some concept of "Separation of Church and State". Maybe if and when we get the Christian hand out of American politics' this country will make a turn for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Why does it matter? This isn't The United States of Religion's... It is The United States of America, and the last time I checked we had some concept of "Separation of Church and State". Maybe if and when we get the Christian hand out of American politics' this country will make a turn for the better.I totally agree that religion and politics don't mix but I was not talking about just Obama's religious affiliation. I'm talking about the whole picture here. Do we really know what we are getting? And if your answer is yes then please enlighten me. And I don’t want to hear “because Obama told me so”. Believe it or not, politicians sometimes tell fibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 This all comes back to the fact that we pretty much know what we are getting with McCain, like it or not, but no one really knows what the hell we are getting with Obama.No it doesn't. We know Obama as well as we know McCain. All of these allegations have been investigated. The evidence is easy to find. He isn't a Muslim.Saying we know Obama less than we know McCain is deceptive. Believing it is self-deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I totally agree that religion and politics don't mix but I was not talking about just Obama's religious affiliation. I'm talking about the whole picture here. Do we really know what we are getting? And if your answer is yes then please enlighten me. And I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 No it doesn't. We know Obama as well as we know McCain. All of these allegations have been investigated. The evidence is easy to find. He isn't a Muslim.Saying we know Obama less than we know McCain is deceptive. Believing it is self-deception.Typical liberal response of not answering the question. McCain has a legacy. Obama doesn't. What do you know about him that hasn't been told to you by him or his political party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Typical liberal response of not answering the question. McCain has a legacy. Obama doesn't. What do you know about him that hasn't been told to you by him or his political party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 You don't think a person's values have anything to do with how they run the country?Values as in what religion you practice, or what your pastor says? Absolutely not. Any Christian, Muslim, Jewish faith, etc. has an equal opportunity at my vote.Now, values as in "here's where I would use my religious beliefs in the White House"? That's a different question because now you're talking about how the real issues that affect Americans would be altered. That's where I'd be paying attention. If in fact Obama was a muslim but claimed Christianity for political purposes (I don't think he is), then he's a liar. I would have a problem with him running my country. Additionally, even his Christian minister is a radical that doesn't share Christian values. He cusses from the pulpit, preaches prejudice, and is for abortion. These aren't Christian ideals. Christianity is inclusive and values all people, even the unborn. I wouldn't consider Obama muslim or Christian. And yes, I'd prefer a Christian in the White House. of any race, with any name, big ears or not.The problem there isn't if Obama were a Christian or Muslim. The problem there is the fact that people would actually not vote for him if he were an open-Muslim. I'm a Christian guy myself, but America's not a Christian nation; it's a nation of all religions, race, and creed. So if a Muslim could vote for a Christian all this time, I can vote for a Muslim. Why should someone have to be a certain religion to be President? Why not just be a better candidate issue and policy-wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 But not McCain of course.I'm not taking sides like you are. Hell yeah, McCain lies. But I will admit it while liberals don't even question Obama. A liberals only response is to say something negative about Bush or McCain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Typical liberal response of not answering the question.Why the name calling? Have I dismissed what you say in a similar manner? McCain has a legacy. Obama doesn't.Obama certainly does have a legacy. He's been an elected official since 1996. What can you possibly mean by this statement?What do you know about him that hasn't been told to you by him or his political party?The same sort of things I know about McCain. I know what's on record, and I know what's been scrutinized by the press. Other than age, how are they any different with respect to what we know about them and how we know it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 There are a lot of stupid Texans out there... everyone knows that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 From Chron:Wow. That's almost half of the people who say they will vote for McCain. How does this happen?Paraphrasing Colin Powell, "so what if he is?"It's funny. On one hand these same folks are saying he is a fervent supporter of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and on the other he is Muslim.Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Why the name calling? Have I dismissed what you say in a similar manner?"Saying we know Obama less than we know McCain is deceptive. Believing it is self-deception." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 "Saying we know Obama less than we know McCain is deceptive. Believing it is self-deception." I believe those were your words. So it's self deception to question a man with little political experience, absolutely no executive experience, and someone that few people outside of Illinois ever heard of until this presidential race.I didn't say it was self-deception to question him. I said it was self-deception to believe that we know less about him than we know about McCain.But why did you start throwing the "liberal" label around and make generalizations about "white liberals"?Whoopee. He was a state legislator in Illinois. That really makes him Presidential material.You said he didn't have a legacy. He does. Instead of accepting that, you tried to change the subject. Why?Let see. McCain has been a Federal legislator/senator since 1982. Again he has a REAL history that can be tracked very easily. Obama? Not so much.Why can't Obama's history be tracked as easily as McCain's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Why can't Obama's history be tracked as easily as McCain's? Because Obama is a Maverick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Paraphrasing Colin Powell, "so what if he is?"It's funny. On one hand these same folks are saying he is a fervent supporter of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, and on the other he is Muslim.Which is it?Macbro, quit introducing logic into this topic. We're talking Texans and religion here. Logic is against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniepwils Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Let see. McCain has been a Federal legislator/senator since 1982. Again he has a REAL history that can be tracked very easily. Obama? Not so much.Real history? how does Obama not have real history, do you mean political history? He has political history, it just isn't all Washington political history.Obama's history is just as traceable as McCain's, you just have to look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Macbro, quit introducing logic into this topic. We're talking Texans and religion here. Logic is against the rules. Hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasVines Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Real history? how does Obama not have real history, do you mean political history? He has political history, it just isn't all Washington political history.Obama's history is just as traceable as McCain's, you just have to look for it.I looked....he was "present" for all the big issues in Illinois and the US Senate with the exception of a few where he totally voted the opposite of just about everyonehe was also present at reverend writes church for 20 years, but claims to have never heard any of the bad stuffwhile obama being a muslim or not being a muslim is not an issue for me because I would not vote for him anyway based on what he has RARELY stood forI think the issue that many might have with muslims is their religion does strictly involve government and the rule of law which is why so many have willingly moved to many European countries and then tried to impose sharia law in those countries for their followers and willing espouse the notion that one day those entire countries will be under sharia lawit is amazing how many in this thread will fight to the end to bash this country for having any Christian principles, but they will totally ignore what muslims clearly stand for and the vast examples where they have said their stance and acted upon it including using violence in many other European countries I have zero desire to allow muslims or their religion to gain ANY foothold in the USA even if that only means voting for a wishy washy person with little spine that only votes "present" most of the time and who will 100% positively cater to muslims if electedbeing a politician to me is not about always being popular it is about taking a stand on all the issues even the ones where some might be offended by your stand.....the only thing obama has taken any real stand on is that he does not want to take a stand on the tough issues and he wants to be a politicianI am also opposed 100% to the types of "community" organizations that obama has been involved with because they drain funds into "black holes" (opps can I use that "racial term") and there is never any real results......which is why all the areas obama "organized" are worse off now than ever before......he failed then and he will fail us all if elected with stupid "toss money at the issue" type solutions that fail to do anything as has been proven by the hundreds of community organizations that he and his supporters have been involved with in areas that are ever more quickly declining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniepwils Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I am also opposed 100% to the types of "community" organizations that obama has been involved with because they drain funds into "black holes" (opps can I use that "racial term") and there is never any real results......which is why all the areas obama "organized" are worse off now than ever before......he failed then and he will fail us all if elected with stupid "toss money at the issue" type solutions that fail to do anything as has been proven by the hundreds of community organizations that he and his supporters have been involved with in areas that are ever more quickly decliningSo he is a black muslim Bush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I didn't say it was self-deception to question him. I said it was self-deception to believe that we know less about him than we know about McCain.But why did you start throwing the "liberal" label around and make generalizations about "white liberals"?You said he didn't have a legacy. He does. Instead of accepting that, you tried to change the subject. Why?Why can't Obama's history be tracked as easily as McCain's?Your white? Let the record show that I never once accused you of being white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Something to think about... I just got this in an e-mail:Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin, what if things were switched around?....think about it.Would the country's collective point of view be different?Ponder the following:What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including athree month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severedisfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards?What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted topainkillers but also acquired them illegally through her charitableorganization?What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five?(The Keating Five werefive United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting amajor political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisisof the late 1980s and early 1990s.)What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter?What if Obama was the one who had 20 year military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distrib ution?What if the Obamas had adopted a white child? You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality,doyou really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negativequalities in another when there is a color difference.Educational Background:Barack Obama:Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization inInternational Relations.Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum LaudeJoseph Biden:University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)vs.John McCain:United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899Sarah Palin:Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semesterNorth Idaho College - 2 semesters - general studyUniversity of Idaho - 2 semesters -journalismMatanuska-Susitna College - 1 semesterUniversity of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. inJournalismEducation isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the world. You make the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F. Barnes Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Wait wait SarahikiWhat if Cindy McCain wrote her college thesis on segregation of the white race from the lesser races in the world?What if John and Cindy attended the Church of the Aryan Nation in Hayden Lake, Idaho, and set there while the pastor screamed out about White Power, and Damn the Niggas and Kikes. God Bless a White America?What if John McCain and his wife hung around with Theodore Kaczynski. Attended meeting at Berkley with him, and attended a party over at his house?What if John McCain went to a going away party for August Kreis III? Or as far as that goes Rashid Khalidi?What if John McCain had decades of his life that was unaccoutable for, no paper trail what so ever? Just bits in pieces mentioned here and there, mostly in his own memoirs. What if what if what if?If you are going to try and reverse this thing, don't leave out stuff. Best thing is just to stick to the way it is, it's bad enough trying to keep all the bulls_ _ _ straight as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Wait wait SarahikiWhat if Cindy McCain wrote her college thesis on segregation of the white race from the lesser races in the world?What if John and Cindy attended the Church of the Aryan Nation in Hayden Lake, Idaho, and set there while the pastor screamed out about White Power, and Damn the Niggas and Kikes. God Bless a White America?What if John McCain and his wife hung around with Theodore Kaczynski. Attended meeting at Berkley with him, and attended a party over at his house?What if John McCain went to a going away party for August Kreis III? Or as far as that goes Rashid Khalidi?What if John McCain had decades of his life that was unaccoutable for, no paper trail what so ever? Just bits in pieces mentioned here and there, mostly in his own memoirs. What if what if what if?If you are going to try and reverse this thing, don't leave out stuff. Best thing is just to stick to the way it is, it's bad enough trying to keep all the bulls_ _ _ straight as it is.Half of that is true of half of the old white men in the Senate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 What if John McCain was associated with a church that bashed black people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 What legacy? As a state legislator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Half of that is true of half of the old white men in the Senate.LOL. How true. Don't make me have to bring up the biggest liberal in the land: Ted Kennedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 So, in reponse to not knowing everything about Obama, I should vote FOR a guy who knows nothing about the economy, picks a running mate that no one had heard of 2 months ago, and promises to continue EVERY bad polict that has put us in the hole we are currently in? Is THAT what you are suggesting?LF, you are free to choose what you think is important. But, asking me to vote for a guy that we KNOW will make things worse versus a guy that MIGHT make things worse is exactly why McCain is behind in the polls...and exactly why I voted for Obama. Your argument leaks like a sieve.I'm not asking you to vote for ANYONE. Trust me, I'm not a big fan of McCain. I just don't understand how "you people" can get all upset when I question if Obama is qualified to be the president of our country. And WHAT makes him more qualified than McCain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 What if John McCain was associated with a church that bashed black people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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