HAIF Demo Poll

[CoolBuddy06]

I do think whoever said earlier that they've never even noticed the waterwall when driving past, either is pulling out some extreme BS to rationalize their opinion that it's just another fountain.. either that or they shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.

What?? I leave it to HAIFers to decide on this one. I drive south loop and west loop at least once weekly since 2003 when I moved to No one told me about the Astrodome or Reliant stadium or the Astroworld. No one pointed out Williams tower to me, or Minute Maid Park or the convention center. Those are visible from the freeway. Something visible is what you don't have to consciously take you eye/s off the road to see. I read about the waterwall on the net, visited it, liked it, doesn't want it to get demolished. Never visited the theatre, will do because of this thread. But the fact remains that the waterwall is not visible from 610, alright?

[TxDave]

The River Oaks Theater is definitely the more historic of the two (the Waterwall has a decade or two before being considered historic).

Although, the Waterwall is more identifiable as a unique Houston icon (most other cities have a historic theater).

IF I had to choose between the two, I would select the Waterwall because it is Houston's own.

But we don't have to choose one over the other - fight to protect both!

[Pumapayam]

What?? I leave it to HAIFers to decide on this one. I drive south loop and west loop at least once weekly since 2003 when I moved to No one told me about the Astrodome or Reliant stadium or the Astroworld. No one pointed out Williams tower to me, or Minute Maid Park or the convention center. Those are visible from the freeway. Something visible is what you don't have to consciously take you eye/s off the road to see. I read about the waterwall on the net, visited it, liked it, doesn't want it to get demolished. Never visited the theatre, will do because of this thread. But the fact remains that the waterwall is not visible from 610, alright?

You need more friend then to tell you about these things, it's so important!

But no, the waterwall is visible, especially going North on 6-10.

It's part of Westheimer. I don't know why it's special. Here's part of it:

Okay, but I agree, it is not special, but it is a nice area of town (Montrose), but definitely does not qualify as a landmark. Thanks for clearing it up.

[lockmat]

Let me ask this. Hypothetically...you love Houston so much that you wanna get a tatoo. What would you get to represent the city? A landmark, the skyline????....

[CoolBuddy06]

Let me ask this. Hypothetically...you love Houston so much that you wanna get a tatoo. What would you get to represent the city? A landmark, the skyline????....

I wouldn't tatoo a landmark on my body. But if I have to have a landmark represent houston on a poster, I'll go for Downtown skyline, or BOA Centre, both waterwall and the theatre won't make top 10...both won't make top 20.

[KinkaidAlum]

Funny, but I'd consider the old Tower Theatre a landmark even in it's present-day form. Thanks for providing the photo.

The Curve/Lower Westheimer is very much a Houston landmark. A landmark doesn't have to be a building, a statue, or even a singular place. Would any of you argue that The Village or SoHo are not landmarks in Manhattan?

Whenever I have out of town guests, I take them to the Curve/Lower Westheimer. It's the Funky side of Houston that most visitors would never assume exists. It's where fine dining (Mark's) meets funk (resale shops, tattoo parlors, EJs).

[dbigtex56]

I still want to know more about this "Westheimer Curve"! What is it, and what is it special?

'The Curve' is in the 1400 block of Westheimer, near Windsor and Mulberry St. In the mid-80's a neon store and several other merchants in the area installed neon signage and promoted it as the 'Neon Curve'; it was really quite flashy. There was even a neon sign which said 'Shop The Curve'.

Most of the neon is now gone, but locals still refer to it as The Curve.

Back to the poll - you want me to do what? Ever see "Sophie's Choice"?

[Pumapayam]

I wouldn't tatoo a landmark on my body. But if I have to have a landmark represent houston on a poster, I'll go for Downtown skyline, or BOA Centre, both waterwall and the theatre won't make top 10...both won't make top 20.

Sorry, but the waterwall is already been used so much to market Houston, you'd be lying to yourself if you claimed it's not in your Top 20.

What would your Top 20 would contain if you can come up with a list of 20 landmarks more worthy and notable than the waterwall.

The Curve/Lower Westheimer is very much a Houston landmark. A landmark doesn't have to be a building, a statue, or even a singular place. Would any of you argue that The Village or SoHo are not landmarks in Manhattan?

I think something particular has to standout in that place. The Village or Soho are not landmarks. Something within them has to be a landmark. Montrose is not a landmark. The Galleria area is not a landmark. The waterwall in the Galleria area is.

[sanguine entity]

Houston does not have that many well identified landmarks.

I can think of:

1. the Astrodome
   
2. the Williams tower
   
3. San Jacinto Monument - (Not really in Houston)
   
4. Mecom Fountain - Hermann Park
   
5. The Sam Houston on horse Statue - Hermann Park
   
6. Virtuoso - Downtown
   

I am struggling to find others that are worth mentioning.

If this list of six is a struggle you must not get out much and would in no way, in my opinion, be qualified to comment on anyone's list ; )

MFA

Menil

Museum of Modern Art

Memorial Park

Rice Hotel

La Carafe (oldest bar in Houston, famous for ghost and celebrity)

Rice University

Downtown Tunnels

Galleria

River Oaks

the many old theaters we have in Houston, one of them being River Oaks

Woodlands Cynthia Woods Pavilion

all the construction we have to see

NASA

Port of Houston

the many old music clubs we have in town (Meredian, Engine Room, Numbers, Washington)

the 50 Presidents currently popping up all over town, 288 and beltway, Smith street exit for downtown from I-10, Katy

people travel to Houston to see one thing in particular all the time...

depending on the interest group one could find hundreds of landmarks in Houston. The masterplan of the city itself is interesting to many architects/planners for its unplanned mayhem and developer encouraged sprawl ridiculousness. Landmarks are historically given to buildings and "landmarks" (statues, waterfalls, circle drives, things peculiar to the common place)

I think to even compare River Oaks Theater and the Williams Tower Waterfall is impossible since they are both equally important to their interest groups. Yes one could assimilate that the groups are yuppies and (insert your term for lone star drinking, typically well educated, sometimes intellectual) crowd. One landmark is in the uptown business district and the other is in a famous sometimes artistic community. I don't see either ever going down but if one were to argue which is more historic... Williams Tower Waterfall was built in 1983... River Oaks Theater 1939... enough said.

I would fight for actual history. So would architectural historians.

[Pumapayam]

If this list of six is a struggle you must not get out much and would in no way, in my opinion, be qualified to comment on anyone's list ; )

MFA

Menil

Museum of Modern Art

Memorial Park

Rice Hotel

La Carafe (oldest bar in Houston, famous for ghost and celebrity)

Rice University

Downtown Tunnels

Galleria

River Oaks

the many old theaters we have in Houston, one of them being River Oaks

Woodlands Cynthia Woods Pavilion

NASA

Port of Houston

the many old music clubs we have in town (Meredian, Engine Room, Numbers, Washington)

the 50 Presidents currently popping up all over town,

288 and beltway

Smith street exit for downtown from I-10

Katy

Most of these are too broad or really not something that would be known nationwide. Even La Caraf would bring "a what???" If you asked someone about the Golden Gate, Empire State, Gateway Arch, they could indentify that with the associated city. Most of those you listed are very VERY locally known or just an area of Houston, not a landmark.

Museums like the Menil is not a very nice looking building. If you are reference the items housed in the Menil, okay, but that does not make it a landmark. There is nothing impressive about the building.

[memebag]

Most of these are too broad or really not something that would be known nationwide.

And you really think the fountain near Williams Tower is known nationwide? I know you saw it in brochures about Houston, but I'm guessing most people in the nation haven't seen those brochures and would have no idea what you're talking about.

[Pumapayam]

And you really think the fountain near Williams Tower is known nationwide? I know you saw it in brochures about Houston, but I'm guessing most people in the nation haven't seen those brochures and would have no idea what you're talking about.

Other than NASA and the dome, Houston does not have much else with nationwide notablility, with the others I have noted the best I can think of.

But Rice Hotel, Katy Texas, even our port is nothing special to be called a city landmark.

[lockmat]

Museums like the Menil is not a very nice looking building. If you are reference the items housed in the Menil, okay, but that does not make it a landmark. There is nothing impressive about the building.

It's a box, but give it more credit than that. I like the outside a lot.

[Pumapayam]

It's a box, but give it more credit than that. I like the outside a lot.

Not hating, but not a landmark worthy building.

[OkieEric]

Most of these are too broad or really not something that would be known nationwide. Even La Caraf would bring "a what???" If you asked someone about the Golden Gate, Empire State, Gateway Arch, they could indentify that with the associated city. Most of those you listed are very VERY locally known or just an area of Houston, not a landmark.

Museums like the Menil is not a very nice looking building. If you are reference the items housed in the Menil, okay, but that does not make it a landmark. There is nothing impressive about the building.

Keep in mind others may not share your opinion of what is "nice" looking - I honestly think many would disagree with you about the Menil. It was designed by Renzo Piano, and I'd say the roof is a pretty interesting characteristic. My brother came in from Tulsa a few months ago and said he had heard of it due to the roof alone. Check it out, or you can just google it

I think marking off items not "known nationwide" is pretty ironic considering your fondness of the waterwall...I'm pretty sure many things on that list are better known than a fountain

[Pumapayam]

Keep in mind others may not share your opinion of what is "nice" looking - I honestly think many would disagree with you about the Menil. It was designed by Renzo Piano, and I'd say the roof is a pretty interesting characteristic. My brother came in from Tulsa a few months ago and said he had heard of it due to the roof alone. Check it out, or you can just google it

I think marking off items not "known nationwide" is pretty ironic considering your fondness of the waterwall...I'm pretty sure many things on that list are better known than a fountain

It does not justify the Menil being a landmark, sorry, I don't see it. It is a musuem that is known for the contents and not the building itself. It does not have anything unique about it, look like a gerenic Houston ISD school bus drop off area to me.

The waterwall is a landmark to Houston, it may not be nationally known like NASA or the Astrodome, but it is up there.

[OkieEric]

It does not justify the Menil being a landmark, sorry, I don't see it. It is a musuem that is known for the contents and not the building itself. It does not have anything unique about it, look like a gerenic Houston ISD school bus drop off area to me.

The waterwall is a landmark to Houston, it may not be nationally known like NASA or the Astrodome, but it is up there.

You must have missed the part about the roof. Maybe it would have been more unique if they had put a huge fountain out front?

[memebag]

You must have missed the part about the roof. Maybe it would have been more unique if they had put a huge fountain out front?

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE! ONE FOUNTAIN! PRAISE IT!

Perhaps it would be a landmark if it was taller. Short buildings are just crap, apparently.

[Pumapayam]

You must have missed the part about the roof. Maybe it would have been more unique if they had put a huge fountain out front?

I read the part about the roof, but why does it justify it being a landmark. The general person who does not appreciate the design for the roof would never notice. It looks lik a boxy old HISD school.

The waterwall is pretty, touristy, and something a person would take a photo in front of because it is easy for anyone to take interest and appreciate.

Perhaps it would be a landmark if it was taller. Short buildings are just crap, apparently.

Ha, I see the sarcasm, but you do have a point, most notable landmarks are fairly tall.

[memebag]

The waterwall is pretty,

To you.

touristy,

To you.

and something a person would take a photo in front of because it is easy for anyone to take interest and appreciate.

To you. Do you imagine that your opinions are shared by everyone else? Do you imagine that you are unique in that respect?

[Pumapayam]

Do you imagine that your opinions are shared by everyone else? Do you imagine that you are unique in that respect?

It's not a landmark. Never will be significant to Houston. It's my opinion yes, But if you set up a demo poll of the waterwall and the Menil building (not including the contents within it), the margin will be drastically different than what is shown here between the waterwall and the theatre.

Even now, the waterwall is ahead, by a small margin but still ahead.

[houstonmacbro]

Menil is kinda boring to look at. But then too so is Rothko Chapel (in MY opinion). But they are both famous. Just not striking or even terribly memorable.

When you think of the great cities of the world do you think of cities by the water. There is some study that shows that many great cities are on the water.

We're on the water ... bayous and the murky ship channel. Yay!

[OkieEric]

It's not a landmark. Never will be significant to Houston. It's my opinion yes, But if you set up a demo poll of the waterwall and the Menil building (not including the contents within it), the margin will be drastically different than what is shown here between the waterwall and the theatre.

Even now, the waterwall is ahead, by a small margin but still ahead.

Your question is slightly flawed, though - if they were to demo the Menil and not its contents, that would presuppose the museum is only relocating to a new building. If we knew a new fountain was coming to replace the waterwall, nobody would care about it, either, as there's nothing really interesting about it other than it being a large fountain. I still believe there would be some architects out there that would care slightly about the Menil's demolition, given the architect and the building's "interesting" roof.

I've only been to the Menil once, I'll admit, but I was pretty impressed with the natural lighting provided by the design. That's one more time than I've been to the waterwall

Why all this fuss about landmarks, anyway? Should that be the deciding factor in whether something is demo'd or not? I'll admit the waterwall is a visible, fixed object, but I'd rather see it go than 100 different things in Houston..."landmark" or not

[Pumapayam]

Your question is slightly flawed, though - if they were to demo the Menil and not its contents, that would presuppose the museum is only relocating to a new building. If we knew a new fountain was coming to replace the waterwall, nobody would care about it, either, as there's nothing really interesting about it other than it being a large fountain. I still believe there would be some architects out there that would care slightly about the Menil's demolition, given the architect and the building's "interesting" roof.

I've only been to the Menil once, I'll admit, but I was pretty impressed with the natural lighting provided by the design. That's one more time than I've been to the waterwall

Why all this fuss about landmarks, anyway? Should that be the deciding factor in whether something is demo'd or not? I'll admit the waterwall is a visible, fixed object, but I'd rather see it go than 100 different things in Houston..."landmark" or not

I had a hard enough time finding 10 Houston icons more significant than the waterwall. I could not even complete that.

And when we say demo, it means demo, not relocate. If the fountain were relocated it would not be as big of an issue, but I am sure people would rather it see intact in the same location. It is a significant Houston icon. A landmark worthy of keeping.

I mention the Menil building only because the real reason people go to that location is for the contents, but than does not make it a landmark. The unique roof design is architecturally interesting, but not landmark worthy.

I seem to repeat myself a lot.

[OkieEric]

I had a hard enough time finding 10 Houston icons more significant than the waterwall. I could not even complete that.

And when we say demo, it means demo, not relocate. If the fountain were relocated it would not be as big of an issue, but I am sure people would rather it see intact in the same location. It is a significant Houston icon. A landmark worthy of keeping.

I mention the Menil building only because the real reason people go to that location is for the contents, but than does not make it a landmark. The unique roof design is architecturally interesting, but not landmark worthy.

I seem to repeat myself a lot.

LOL, OK...how about this. If they were to demo the Menil and remove it completely as a museum (disperse its contents), I have a hard time believing the waterwall would win. If that were the case, then screw the uncultured masses Please, no poll, though

Icon or not, I can think of a list of 10 things I would prefer stay over the waterwall - how about the 10 tallest buildings in Houston? Reliant stadium, minute maid park, the astrodome? Anything over 100 years old? How worthy is it really of "icon" status?

[dbigtex56]

I mention the Menil building only because the real reason people go to that location is for the contents, but than does not make it a landmark. The unique roof design is architecturally interesting, but not landmark worthy.

The building itself is also a 'real' reason people visit the Menil Collection. Renzo Piano is a highly regarded architect; his and Mrs. Menil's creation of a building which relates to the surrounding neighborhood has earned international interest and praise.

GreatBuildings online link

Menil Collection by Fondazione Renzo Piano - book review

[wernicke]

Not that it matters, but the Menil Collection is the only Houston activity/attraction listed in the book 1000 Things to See Before You Die.

[sanguine entity]

Most of these are too broad or really not something that would be known nationwide. Even La Caraf would bring "a what???" If you asked someone about the Golden Gate, Empire State, Gateway Arch, they could indentify that with the associated city. Most of those you listed are very VERY locally known or just an area of Houston, not a landmark.

Museums like the Menil is not a very nice looking building. If you are reference the items housed in the Menil, okay, but that does not make it a landmark. There is nothing impressive about the building.

You completely missed the point of my post.

I'm still a little dumb struck that on an architecture forum you have said that the Menil is not an impressive building. That would be saying than Renzo Piano is not an impressive architect when in fact, he is one of the highest paid contractible architects in the world.

just FYI, the Menil is Houston's version of the Kemble museum in Dallas... meaning it's considered one of the best buildings ever designed by everyone who knows anything about architecture. If you don't know this or can't see this, just accept it. That is fact. There is no debate here. In any architecture school in the United States a student will learn of Piano and one of the buildings they will learn about is the Menil, it is also one of the ONLY noted buildings in Houston. The Williams Tower is a glass copy of a building in New York and obviously not noted for anything. It's a copy and the Water Wall is the same simple language as the University of Houston Architecture building. This is typical quick and pleasing Phillip Johnson.

Check this site to become aware of the landmarks of Houston, PBS made a presentation that the entire nation watched. I'm surprised I haven't seen it in this blog.

hot town cool city

All Houston landmarks are local, and as you will learn on this site... that's what makes Houston one of "the" cities in the USA and worth mentioning in the same breath as Chicago, LA, Miami and New York.

I suggest everyone go to the Menil and pick up the Piano book there and understand why the Menil is genius. This is essential in talking about architecture.

Also, update: Williams Water Wall is not going down, nor is the River Oaks theater. River Oaks is cited on Wikipedia and Water Wall is under maintenance. Neither are going anytime soon.

[KinkaidAlum]

I gotta say Puma, you need to step down as a judge if you think the Waterwall is > The Menil.

That is redonkulous.

Trust me, people who know art and architecture know the Menil. I have many friends here in Boston who either have taken a trip to Houston with the sole purpose of seeing the Menil or they have heard all about it and want to someday visit. I have never ONCE heard a person from New England comment on the Waterwall. Not once.

Maybe you'd like the Menil more if water cascaded down off of the roof?

[Pumapayam]

I gotta say Puma, you need to step down as a judge if you think the Waterwall is > The Menil.

That is redonkulous.

Trust me, people who know art and architecture know the Menil. I have many friends here in Boston who either have taken a trip to Houston with the sole purpose of seeing the Menil or they have heard all about it and want to someday visit. I have never ONCE heard a person from New England comment on the Waterwall. Not once.

Maybe you'd like the Menil more if water cascaded down off of the roof?

I'd like to believe that I know the Houston area pretty well. I did not know about the Menil existance until today. I think the common Houstonian would know about the waterwall, rather than someone knowing about the Menil.