2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[memebag]

Ok, really. I've tried to be fair, but this is just too much.

Then watch the Frontline doc I mentioned above. It's really informative and won't offend any conservative sensibilities. They talked about the Japanese health ministry lowering the payments for MRIs so much that it created a market for Toshiba to produce ultra-cheap MRI machines. Those machines are now being sold around the world and bringing more yen into Japan.

[lockmat]

The watch the Frontline doc I mentioned above. It's really informative. They talked about the Japanese health ministry lowering the payments for MRIs so much that it created a market for Toshiba to produce ultra-cheap MRI machines. Those machines are now being sold around the world and bringing more yen into Japan.

I love frontline. They do a great job. Do libraries usually have their videos? I doubt I'm gonna go out and buy it.

Also, Lieberman just gave a pretty good speech. Thompson was pretty good too. The rest were real yawners.

[memebag]

I love frontline. They do a great job. Do libraries usually have their videos? I doubt I'm gonna go out and buy it.

Go here: Sick Around the World

Click on "Watch Online".

[lockmat]

Go here: Sick Around the World

Click on "Watch Online".

niiiiice. Thanks.

[TJones]

Does this mean the govt will decide when its time to let someone die or when it's okay to go on with a life saving procedure? How do other countries deal with that problem?

Well, that is pretty much how Canada does it. They assess you, by your age, your amount of medical attention needed, and will you go back to being a more useful member of society, or more of a burden. SO, a 30 yr. old who just came into the emergency room with a heart condition that needs a transplant, will be ahead in line of the 65yr. old that has been there two days with the same condition who is now stabilized and waiting for the same donor heart to become available. Why, because the 30 yr. old has a wife and two small children and a good factory job. The 65 yr. old is on retirement and he is divorced and his children are grown. So, we all turn into statistics, and those who statistically have the best chance for recovery get taken care of first. Doesn't matter how long you have been waiting on the list, if a better piece of meat comes in, you get put on the back burner.

On a lighter note. Man, you know you got problems in your party when your one time VP choice turns around and supports the other horse ? Friggin' CLASSIC ! Damn fine speech by Lieberman, but I still won't vote for McCain.

[BryanS]

On a lighter note. Man, you know you got problems in your party when your one time VP choice turns around and supports the other horse ? Friggin' CLASSIC ! Damn fine speech by Lieberman, but I still won't vote for McCain.

First, Lieberman left the Democratic party, it did not leave him. Second, he's no longer a Democrat - thank God. And Third... he was no where near as lively as this character in 2004:

I miss Zell Miller.

[memebag]

Well, that is pretty much how Canada does it. They assess you, by your age, your amount of medical attention needed, and will you go back to being a more useful member of society, or more of a burden. SO, a 30 yr. old who just came into the emergency room with a heart condition that needs a transplant, will be ahead in line of the 65yr. old that has been there two days with the same condition who is now stabilized and waiting for the same donor heart to become available. Why, because the 30 yr. old has a wife and two small children and a good factory job. The 65 yr. old is on retirement and he is divorced and his children are grown. So, we all turn into statistics, and those who statistically have the best chance for recovery get taken care of first. Doesn't matter how long you have been waiting on the list, if a better piece of meat comes in, you get put on the back burner.

First, you act like statistics can somehow be avoided. They can't. It doesn't make financial or ethical sense to spend money on procedures that have little chance of extending life or improving its quality when it could be spent to actually help someone.

Second, where are you getting this information about Canada?

[RedScare]

Well, that is pretty much how Canada does it. They assess you, by your age, your amount of medical attention needed, and will you go back to being a more useful member of society, or more of a burden. SO, a 30 yr. old who just came into the emergency room with a heart condition that needs a transplant, will be ahead in line of the 65yr. old that has been there two days with the same condition who is now stabilized and waiting for the same donor heart to become available. Why, because the 30 yr. old has a wife and two small children and a good factory job. The 65 yr. old is on retirement and he is divorced and his children are grown. So, we all turn into statistics, and those who statistically have the best chance for recovery get taken care of first. Doesn't matter how long you have been waiting on the list, if a better piece of meat comes in, you get put on the back burner.

While it is certainly not required that a US healthcare plan include the calculation that TJ describes, there may be logic to using a formula like that for scarces resourses. Currently, we have a waiting list with a first come first served policy. Maybe that is not the best way to do it.

[houstonmacbro]

First, Lieberman left the Democratic party, it did not leave him. Second, he's no longer a Democrat - thank God. And Third... he was no where near as lively as this character in 2004:

I miss Zell Miller.

There's certainly no love lost on Lieberman. Good riddance.

[Trae]

Campbell Brown sticking it to them:

[houstonmacbro]

McCain strikes me as very unstable. Maybe having Palin on the ticket is a good thing. She'll (hopefully) bring some stability to his madness.

[lockmat]

Campbell Brown sticking it to them:

Wow. Media liberal bias at it's finest. Could you imagine in a hundred years her going that hard after an Obama spokesperson? What a joke.

Trae, it's fine to support Obama and all, but even I try and see through the bias Fox news, Rush or Hannity feeds me sometimes.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Look how slanted and off point they have gotten. The banner reads "Breaking News-----Palin's Teenage daughter pregnant" That's really breaking news isn't it. The night they announce her as the VP candidate. The had the Banner, "Breaking News Palin has three houses." What is the obsession with multiple homes anyway. How many Homes does Hillary have, they never cared about that. The majority of the rich politicians all have multiple homes. They never obsessed over this before that I can remember. I'm sure Kerry had multiple Homes, I know GWB does, Gore does, hell they all do. Not sure if Obama does, evidently not, or they wouldn't take such and obsessive stance, just very weird, but however even more pointless reporting and obsessive bantering. Stick to the real issues, not pregnant daughter and multiple homes. Their are bigger problems in this world than that.

This is going to be a messy campaign. Obama can sit back and let the Media and Left Wing Zealots, do all the dirty work, and he looks no worse for the wear. And he can come in and say, no one in his campaign will use tactics and if they did they would be fired all he wants, he need not worry about that, the Media will do it for them. Fox leans one way, the rest lean the other, it's all a bunch of crap. Vote your conscience and be done with it.

Look at this morning, Fox's headline is some Pizza Guy goes on a killing rampage, and CNN is talking about Palin's personal shortcomings, and her limited experience. Now CNN is comparing the amount of "A-Listers" that will be at the RNC vs. the DNC. Who gives a damn how many Hollywood Celebrities are where. Not even a scrolling banner talking about the Pizza Killer. Now Fox is back on all the attacks against Palin, Jeez this is getting old fast.

[RedScare]

Look at this morning, Fox's headline is some Pizza Guy goes on a killing rampage, and CNN is talking about Palin's personal shortcomings, and her limited experience.

Are you suggesting that crazy pizza killers are of more importance than an absolute unknown being a heartbeat away from the presidency? Last week, experience was of the utmost importance to Republicans. Today, it means nothing. They try to make her out to be a "commander in chief" because she commands the Alaska National Guard, a 4,000 member unit with a budget of $20 million. Are you suggesting that this prepares in any way whatsoever to command a 1.4 million member armed force with a budget of $600 Billion, currently operating in two theatres?

Please. People can trot out their version of GOP PC...can't talk bad about vets, moms or religion...but trying to sugarcoat the most un-qualified candidate for executive office in US history with claims that we're picking on her ain't gonna fly with me. If McCain croaks, are you going to yell at Hugo Chavez, Vladimir Putin and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to quit picking on her? As they say, if she can't stand the heat, go back to the kitchen.

BTW, she does NOT have any control whatsoever over the Guard when it is called up to federal service, according to federal law and the US Army. So, Tucker lied....again.

[wernicke]

Anyone catch this:

In a speech last June to her former church in Wasilla, Ms. Palin said the war in Iraq was “a task that is from God.”

In her speech to the Wasilla Assembly of God in June, Ms. Palin said it was “God’s will” that the federal government contribute to a $30 billion gas pipeline she wants built in Alaska.

Scary stuff. We've already been through this "God's will" stuff with George W. Bush (although I think his handlers were smart enough to never let him say it publicly).

Does anyone else feel the Iraq war -- a war that has cost us a trillion dollars, over 3000 soldiers, and killed 100s of thousands of Iraqi civilians to make us less safe in the world -- was a task sent from God? She said that in JUNE, people!

[lockmat]

Anyone catch this:

In a speech last June to her former church in Wasilla, Ms. Palin said the war in Iraq was "a task that is from God."

In her speech to the Wasilla Assembly of God in June, Ms. Palin said it was "God's will" that the federal government contribute to a $30 billion gas pipeline she wants built in Alaska.

Scary stuff. We've already been through this "God's will" stuff with George W. Bush (although I think his handlers were smart enough to never let him say it publicly).

Yes, it has been touched on already.

[wernicke]

Yes, it has been touched on already.

What do you think about it lockmat, I can't find the discussion about these comments specifically...

[houstonmacbro]

Yes, it has been touched on already.

I think we're seeing this whole debacle crash and burn. I give it another week if that long.

As I have stated before, this smells like another Harriet Miers.

[RedScare]

I think we're seeing this whole debacle crash and burn. I give it another week if that long.

As I have stated before, this smells like another Harriet Miers.

Dude, at least Harriet Meiers has a law degree.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Are you suggesting that crazy pizza killers are of more importance than an absolute unknown being a heartbeat away from the presidency? Last week, experience was of the utmost importance to Republicans. Today, it means nothing. They try to make her out to be a "commander in chief" because she commands the Alaska National Guard, a 4,000 member unit with a budget of $20 million. Are you suggesting that this prepares in any way whatsoever to command a 1.4 million member armed force with a budget of $600 Billion, currently operating in two theatres?

Please. People can trot out their version of GOP PC...can't talk bad about vets, moms or religion...but trying to sugarcoat the most un-qualified candidate for executive office in US history with claims that we're picking on her ain't gonna fly with me. If McCain croaks, are you going to yell at Hugo Chavez, Vladimir Putin and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to quit picking on her? As they say, if she can't stand the heat, go back to the kitchen.

BTW, she does NOT have any control whatsoever over the Guard when it is called up to federal service, according to federal law and the US Army. So, Tucker lied....again.

No Red, pull her experience apart, you can pull apart anything that directly effects National Policy or Security, but screw this BS about her multiple house and pregnant daughter. Has Zero to do with being VP. Lack of experience, I will be the first to admit it, she definitely has that or the lack of, however you want to put it. Just stay on point. I know I know, it's all part of the game, but that doesn't make it right.

I mean someone had the audacity to compare this story on the pregnant daughter to the Kerry Swift Boat ordeal. I find that find of amusing. Kerry was saying his Service in Vietnam and waving his "War Hero" status as his National Security Qualifications, and was using it to try and lesson GWB's. And these Swiftees were soldiers who supposedly served with Kerry and were disputing his stories from 'Nam. Whether or not Palin's daughter can keep her legs together has no place in Politics. Palin's lack of experience, yes, her deal with the firing or attempted firing of the State Trooper ex-BIL, sure, if she used her power to influence or tried to, you bet your ass it's and issue. Don't really think it's and issue from my standpoint, but it's fair game. It's not like she's the only politician to use their office to try and pull some strings, that's for damn sure. Ask Teddy about Chappaquiddick. How many politicians pulled string to keep their kids out of 'Nam, including Bush number 1.

I want to see Palin under pressure, I want to see how she handles it. The Daughter I'd rather not see beaten to death. I went through this very same thing in my own life. That's the reason I have my wonderful 15 year old Grand Daughter and wouldn't trade her for anything. At least the Boy in Palin's case is trying to be responsible, we weren't so lucky, or maybe we were he wasn't that's the way we look at it. It goes on everyday in today's life, that's the reason we have so many grandparents raising their grand kids. But the Media is going to do what they do, it doesn't make it right or wrong I guess, I just don't have to agree with that.

But Hey it's Politics right?

Man I am glad to be home Red. got a lot of catching up to do. Last two months have been trying. I don't know about this West Virginia gig though. That's about one depressing piece of real estate. But it's hard to feel sorry for them, when 75% of it is self inflicted.

[houstonmacbro]

Dude, at least Harriet Meiers has a law degree.

Yes, but in McCain's own words, this woman "is the real deal."

That's reassuring.

[sarahiki]

Wow. Media liberal bias at it's finest. Could you imagine in a hundred years her going that hard after an Obama spokesperson? What a joke.

Trae, it's fine to support Obama and all, but even I try and see through the bias Fox news, Rush or Hannity feeds me sometimes.

All she's doing is turning around his own questions and comments about Obama, back on him, regarding Palin. These are points he raised about Obama; it's fair to make him answer them about Palin. I would like to see more of this questioning from the media on both sides. Too often reporters ask a question, are given a canned response that doesn't answer it, then they move on. I'd really like to see the press push a little harder.

Honestly, if you're looking for bias in that clip, it can only be that she is asking questions about Palin. Who happens to be in the current newscycle. Who is going to speak tonight. Who is therefore a sensible topic.

[sarahiki]

No Red, pull her experience apart, you can pull apart anything that directly effects National Policy or Security, but screw this BS about her multiple house and pregnant daughter. Has Zero to do with being VP. Lack of experience, I will be the first to admit it, she definitely has that or the lack of, however you want to put it. Just stay on point. I know I know, it's all part of the game, but that doesn't make it right.

I mean someone had the audacity to compare this story on the pregnant daughter to the Kerry Swift Boat ordeal. I find that find of amusing. Kerry was saying his Service in Vietnam and waving his "War Hero" status as his National Security Qualifications, and was using it to try and lesson GWB's. And these Swiftees were soldiers who supposedly served with Kerry and were disputing his stories from 'Nam. Whether or not Palin's daughter can keep her legs together has no place in Politics. Palin's lack of experience, yes, her deal with the firing or attempted firing of the State Trooper ex-BIL, sure, if she used her power to influence or tried to, you bet your ass it's and issue. Don't really think it's and issue from my standpoint, but it's fair game. It's not like she's the only politician to use their office to try and pull some strings, that's for damn sure. Ask Teddy about Chappaquiddick. How many politicians pulled string to keep their kids out of 'Nam, including Bush number 1.

I want to see Palin under pressure, I want to see how she handles it. The Daughter I'd rather not see beaten to death. I went through this very same thing in my own life. That's the reason I have my wonderful 15 year old Grand Daughter and wouldn't trade her for anything. At least the Boy in Palin's case is trying to be responsible, we weren't so lucky, or maybe we were he wasn't that's the way we look at it. It goes on everyday in today's life, that's the reason we have so many grandparents raising their grand kids. But the Media is going to do what they do, it doesn't make it right or wrong I guess, I just don't have to agree with that.

Mark, (drumroll), I agree with you... I am sick of the pregnant daughter headlines. I don't give a rat's hiney if she's pregnant or not. It's none of my business. I do hope that the next time a Republican tries to legislate something regarding my own body, such as access to birth control or abortions, they will also recognize how inappropriate it is to get involved with my personal life, and back off.

I would much rather see CNN and the other media outlets focus on the real issues. Like her stances on creationism, abortion, access to birth control, and God's involvement in US foreign policy. These are issues that will affect people in this country if she is elected and if she should become President through an unexpected tragedy. Focusing on the daughter is just muck-raking.

[lockmat]

What do you think about it lockmat, I can't find the discussion about these comments specifically...

Yeah, the (small) discussion may be a page or two back.

What I believe? I believe God is sovereign in all things. However, that doesn't necessarily mean he initiates such things and is playing us like a chess game until what he wants to happen does. It's not something I completely understand. But I wouldn't tell anyone that we should do something like this because it is his will like she did. I don't believe they have a direct revelation from God saying that it is his will. There are a few places in the Bible, one that I can think of now, where he says directly what his will is. It says, "For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you abstain from sexual morality." (1 Thess. 4:3). Being sanctified covers a lot of things also.

To restate and sum it up. I believe that God is sovereign but I don't necessarily believe that the war is his direct will. I think she went a little too far.

[lockmat]

All she's doing is turning around his own questions and comments about Obama, back on him, regarding Palin. These are points he raised about Obama; it's fair to make him answer them about Palin. I would like to see more of this questioning from the media on both sides. Too often reporters ask a question, are given a canned response that doesn't answer it, then they move on. I'd really like to see the press push a little harder.

Honestly, if you're looking for bias in that clip, it can only be that she is asking questions about Palin. Who happens to be in the current newscycle. Who is going to speak tonight. Who is therefore a sensible topic.

I actually don't mind the hard questions. What bothers me is if she's interviewing someone from the Obama camp, she'll go easy on them. They don't treat both sides equally.

[sarahiki]

I actually don't mind the hard questions. What bothers me is if she's interviewing someone from the Obama camp, she'll go easy on them. They don't treat both sides equally.

I don't think anyone was easy on Obama when the Rev. Wright story broke. Was that a conservative media bias? Or does it only apply when the "bias" goes in one direction?

[lockmat]

I don't think anyone was easy on Obama when the Rev. Wright story broke. Was that a conservative media bias? Or does it only apply when the "bias" goes in one direction?

I can't comment on that b/c I never saw any interviews with Obama or a representative. I know the media was outspoken about it, but that's not the same thing as an interview.

The issue was her foreign relation experience. I'll be surprised if she was to even raise the question of experience with someone from the Obama camp. And if she did/does, I doubt it would be so hardball. I'll be quiet if it happens or if someone can show me a similar video for Obama.

[Jeebus]

Dude, at least Harriet Meiers has a law degree.

Yes, because a law degree is the tell-all indicator of a good leader.

Are you suggesting that crazy pizza killers are of more importance than an absolute unknown being a heartbeat away from the presidency?

YES. Especially when the focus of reports seem to be on the candidate's unwed teenage daughter's pregnancy. How petty.

They try to make her out to be a "commander in chief" because she commands the Alaska National Guard, a 4,000 member unit with a budget of $20 million. Are you suggesting that this prepares in any way whatsoever to command a 1.4 million member armed force with a budget of $600 Billion, currently operating in two theatres?

I would rather have someone who has served in an executive position of any level, and knows what commanding a military force entails - especially when the alternative is two guys with no executive experience or even service in the military to boot.

Please. People can trot out their version of GOP PC...can't talk bad about vets, moms or religion...but trying to sugarcoat the most un-qualified candidate for executive office in US history with claims that we're picking on her ain't gonna fly with me. If McCain croaks, are you going to yell at Hugo Chavez, Vladimir Putin and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to quit picking on her? As they say, if she can't stand the heat, go back to the kitchen.

Again with the sexist comments from the left. You are the most hypocritical bunch. "Burn your bras, but only after you cook my dinner, woman!"

[sevfiv]

There's a video of the address to the Wasilla Assembly of God (I didn't know she did the Pentecostal thing) on this posting:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/p...h_n_123205.html

Anyone catch this:

In a speech last June to her former church in Wasilla, Ms. Palin said the war in Iraq was “a task that is from God.”

In her speech to the Wasilla Assembly of God in June, Ms. Palin said it was “God’s will” that the federal government contribute to a $30 billion gas pipeline she wants built in Alaska.

Scary stuff. We've already been through this "God's will" stuff with George W. Bush (although I think his handlers were smart enough to never let him say it publicly).

Does anyone else feel the Iraq war -- a war that has cost us a trillion dollars, over 3000 soldiers, and killed 100s of thousands of Iraqi civilians to make us less safe in the world -- was a task sent from God? She said that in JUNE, people!

[lockmat]

About 38% of U.S. households pay no income tax today.

link

Sad.