2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: Obama (D-IL) vs. McCain (R-AZ)

[wernicke]

Check her out on the cover of Vogue.

And her Miss Wasilla 1984 shot.

I dunno, something about her big hair... it is almost like it is a huge joke or something. Seems like she could be the sexy secretary in a skin flick, right? Or am I alone on that one?

[BryanS]

I'd start a list for Obama's mistakes, but he's never made an executive decision. Darnit!

Actually, he has. He named Joe Biden to be his VP. That's pretty good executive decision (now that I understand why he did it - at first I didn't think it was a good idea... but it is.)

[BryanS]

Remind me, what did I change (in one minute)?

No, that's crazy! To the extent that we need more warm bodies, increase pay. Compensate people for the risks they're taking. And if a war proves to be more expensive than its worth, don't start one.

I still say that you don't understand how this line of argument originated and that you need to go back and read through my prior posts. I do not advocate needless wars. They're only better than an Obama alternative.

If George Bush could have only taken your advice...

Actually you did say that you advocated needless wars: "I'll take neocon wars...hands down." The latest war, in Iraq, a neocon war, I would say was needless. And if you claim to that you would rather have a "neocon war" vs. a democrat in office... well... we need to send you to the front line. And see if you change your mind.

[memebag]

Niche is really about power; social control through consumerism and market forces.

I'm thinking dissocial personality disorder. He doesn't seem to have any empathy for other human beings.

[KinkaidAlum]

KinkaidAlum: See, I told you so.

LOL.

You didn't tell me anything. Again, I said I'd like to see you TELL a military family your thoughts. Typing from the comfort of your own home and hiding behind a keyboard hardly qualifies as "telling."

Why don't you own your thoughts and tell us your name or where you work?

I agree. It sucks. I'm not defending the war, just making a comparative statement. In neocon wars v. socialism, I'll take neocon wars...hands down. But that doesn't mean that I expect that Barack wouldn't deploy troops frequently, either. Neither party can really lay claim to having not been warlike.

And you'd take a neocon war exactly the same way the neocons do; by avoiding service and sending other people to do the dirty work.

It doesn't take much to "support" a war if all you are doing is placing a car magnet (likely made in China) on your bumper.

[PuroAztlan]

LOL. You didn't tell me anything. Again, I said I'd like to see you TELL a military family your thoughts. Typing from the comfort of your own home and hiding behind a keyboard hardly qualifies as "telling." Why don't you own your thoughts and tell us your name or where you work? And you'd take a neocon war exactly the same way the neocons do; by avoiding service and sending other people to do the dirty work. It doesn't take much to "support" a war if all you are doing is placing a car magnet (likely made in China) on your bumper.

Never gonna happen. This weak character is a bonafide internet coward who will easily fold in you and your military family's presence. Edited August 30, 2008 by PuroAztlan

[ssullivan]

I dunno, something about her big hair... it is almost like it is a huge joke or something. Seems like she could be the sexy secretary in a skin flick, right? Or am I alone on that one?

Nope, you're not alone in that one. A friend of mine in Arizona said something to the effect of "She looks like the librarian in the opening scene of a porn flick. Pretty soon the glasses come off, the hair comes down and ..." Well you know the rest.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Check her out on the cover of Vogue.

And her Miss Wasilla 1984 shot.

I dunno, something about her big hair... it is almost like it is a huge joke or something. Seems like she could be the sexy secretary in a skin flick, right? Or am I alone on that one?

The Vogue cover is a really bad photo shop that's been floating around the internet for a while. The photo was created by some blogger and is nothing new, however very bogus. So it is true she was in Vogue but the photo above is a fake. You can view the actual Vogue photos HERE.

[musicman]

don't know how many times they've asked her "can you be VP with a special needs child?" that should stir up a few mothers. she sure has the attention of the media. they've mentioned hillary clinton more than barack on the 1/2 of GMA. who's running for president again?

Edited August 30, 2008 by musicman

[Trae]

don't know how many times they've asked her "can you be VP with a special needs child?" that should stir up a few mothers. she sure has the attention of the media. they've mentioned hillary clinton more than barack on the 1/2 of GMA. who's running for president again?

And then this little interview will come up:

Do you support the teaching of creationism in US public schools?

Palin: Yes.

Do you agree with the oil companies about the causes of global warming?

Palin: Yes.

If an eleven year old girl is raped and impregnated by her father, should she be forced to bring that fetus to term?

Palin:Yes

[musicman]

And then this little interview will come up:

not on GMA at least, yet.

[lockmat]

Do you agree with the oil companies about the causes of global warming?

Palin: Yes.

Don't look beyond the phrasing of the question. Typical

If an eleven year old girl is raped and impregnated by her father, should she be forced to bring that fetus to term?

Palin:Yes

Explain why this is wrong.

[TheNiche]

Actually, he has. He named Joe Biden to be his VP. That's pretty good executive decision (now that I understand why he did it - at first I didn't think it was a good idea... but it is.)

This is actually a very good point. The tactical competency displayed by someone running their own campaign is an indication of tactical competency while in office. It is unfortunate that Obama is advocating such destructive policies. Competence of this sort only helps to ensure that he'll be very effective at actually implementing the destructive policies he advocates. All the more reason to vote against him.

If George Bush could have only taken your advice...

Actually you did say that you advocated needless wars: "I'll take neocon wars...hands down." The latest war, in Iraq, a neocon war, I would say was needless. And if you claim to that you would rather have a "neocon war" vs. a democrat in office... well... we need to send you to the front line. And see if you change your mind.

You either misunderstood me or are misrepresenting me. If given two undesirable options, I'll go with the neocon war...an unending series of them if necessary.

[TJones]

Why don't you own your thoughts and tell us your name or where you work?

Ummm, I have seen him at more HAIF gatherings than YOU and Puro put together, chief. Niche isn't a shrinking violet.

Edited August 30, 2008 by TJones

[barracuda]

The Vogue cover is a really bad photo shop that's been floating around the internet for a while. The photo was created by some blogger and is nothing new, however very bogus. So it is true she was in Vogue but the photo above is a fake. You can view the actual Vogue photos HERE.

Even if it is fake, it illustrates the dangers of picking an unknown so close to the election. Images like the Vogue cover will be burned into people's minds. She will have to do a lot to overcome that quickly, or else that is how people will view her going into the election.

In a slight way, it reminds me of the nefarious campaign to paint John Kerry as anything but a war hero by the swift boat veteran for truth traitors. Kerry was unable to overcome this negative image, even though he was by most accounts a hero during the Vietnam war.

[Trae]

Karl Rove on Obama picking Tim Kaine for VP ("Face the Nation" 8/10/08):

SCHIEFFER: You have said yourself in the past that Obama probably should pick a red state governor, somebody just like Tim Kaine that we just heard just a minute ago from Virginia. Governor Kaine seems to think that Democrats really can carry Virginia this time. Do you think that state

[wernicke]

lockmat said:

If an eleven year old girl is raped and impregnated by her father, should she be forced to bring that fetus to term?

Palin:Yes

Explain why this is wrong.

If you don't understand why opposing abortion in this circumstance is wrong, then you are definitely way out on the fringe of our societal norms, and any conversation on the issue is pointless.

[Trae]

If an eleven year old girl is raped and impregnated by her father, should she be forced to bring that fetus to term?

Palin:Yes

Explain why this is wrong.

Srsly?

[lockmat]

lockmat said:

If an eleven year old girl is raped and impregnated by her father, should she be forced to bring that fetus to term?

Palin:Yes

Explain why this is wrong.

If you don't understand why opposing abortion in this circumstance is wrong, then you are definitely way out on the fringe of our societal norms, and any conversation on the issue is pointless.

That's a good thing for me. Everyone recognizes how far down the tubes our society is going. And I want to be a part of that?

[barracuda]

If an eleven year old girl is raped and impregnated by her father, should she be forced to bring that fetus to term?

Palin:Yes

Explain why this is wrong.

To explain this would require that you exhibit empathy and respect for women.

[lockmat]

Srsly?

Seriously.

While mowing the yard, I was wondering why I even said that. Why bring it up when I know we disagree.

To explain this would require that you exhibit empathy and respect for women.

Empathy is impossible since I am a man. Sympathy, I can still have.

But I do respect life. That does not show my disrespect for women.

[TheNiche]

I'm thinking dissocial personality disorder. He doesn't seem to have any empathy for other human beings.

Obama says I'm my brother's keeper. Perhaps I am (you'd know it for fact unless you were a close friend or relative, especially from over the last couple months). But that is not Obama's or anybody else's decision to make than mine. He's talking about government-enforced redistribution of wealth from those who have earned it to those who have not, whether the individual taxpayers would want to support it or not.

I advocate charity. I believe that the individual is responsible for determining how charitiable resources ought to be put to use; their decision should reflect their own personal system of ethics. That Obama believes that his ethics are in any way superior to anybody else's and that he is willing to take property from one man to give to another is tantamount to robbery. It is unethical. It is disrespectful. It is worse than racism, sexism, or anything we have conquered in the past; it is classist. Whereas I desire that respect be granted to all human beings equally, Obama wants to punish the most productive in our society in order to reward the less productive...but ethics aside, this mentality also removes the incentive to be productive, and in so doing causes economic growth to stagnate. Reapportionment is good for some and bad for some, but stagnation is good for no one. Growth is good for all.

[lockmat]

Obama says I'm my brother's keeper. Perhaps I am (you'd know it for fact unless you were a close friend or relative, especially from over the last couple months). But that is not Obama's or anybody else's decision to make than mine. He's talking about government-enforced redistribution of wealth from those who have earned it to those who have not, whether the individual taxpayers would want to support it or not.

I advocate charity. I believe that the individual is responsible for determining how charitiable resources ought to be put to use; their decision should reflect their own personal system of ethics. That Obama believes that his ethics are in any way superior to anybody else's and that he is willing to take property from one man to give to another is tantamount to robbery. It is unethical. It is disrespectful. It is worse than racism, sexism, or anything we have conquered in the past; it is classist. Whereas I desire that respect be granted to all human beings equally, Obama wants to punish the most productive in our society in order to reward the less productive...but ethics aside, this mentality also removes the incentive to be productive, and in so doing causes economic growth to stagnate. Reapportionment is good for some and bad for some, but stagnation is good for no one. Growth is good for all.

Can this be officially put in the encyclopedia or some place?

[barracuda]

Empathy is impossible since I am a man. Sympathy, I can still have.

But I do respect life. That does not show my disrespect for women.

Empathy and sympathy are not the same, and they are both human capacities not specific to one gender.

[lockmat]

Empathy and sympathy are not the same, and they are both human capacities not specific to one gender.

Exactly. How can I be empathetic if I'm not able to be inpregnated and have a child? I cannot put myself in her situation.

I can have sympathy though, and I do.

However, I'd have more sympathy towards a child who had his or her choice to live taken away from them. What about respect and sympathy for them?

Just because their mother was inpregnated by her father does not mean they don't have the right to live.

[wernicke]

Just because their mother was inpregnated by her father does not mean they don't have the right to live.

As long as you realize only about 10% of Americans agree with you, and you don't try to force this extreme view down society's throat, I don't mind.

But if you held that belief and were in charge of nominating justices to the Supreme Court?

Scary.

McCain put his ambition for president over the good of the country.

[barracuda]

Obama says I'm my brother's keeper. Perhaps I am (you'd know it for fact unless you were a close friend or relative, especially from over the last couple months). But that is not Obama's or anybody else's decision to make than mine. He's talking about government-enforced redistribution of wealth from those who have earned it to those who have not, whether the individual taxpayers would want to support it or not.

McCain would shift more of the tax burden to the middle class in favor of greater tax relief for the wealthiest Americans. Isn't that redistribution of wealth?

I advocate charity. I believe that the individual is responsible for determining how charitiable resources ought to be put to use; their decision should reflect their own personal system of ethics. That Obama believes that his ethics are in any way superior to anybody else's and that he is willing to take property from one man to give to another is tantamount to robbery. It is unethical. It is disrespectful. It is worse than racism, sexism, or anything we have conquered in the past; it is classist. Whereas I desire that respect be granted to all human beings equally, Obama wants to punish the most productive in our society in order to reward the less productive...but ethics aside, this mentality also removes the incentive to be productive, and in so doing causes economic growth to stagnate. Reapportionment is good for some and bad for some, but stagnation is good for no one. Growth is good for all.

I don't see how you can assume that people who make less money are thereby less productive. Do you really think some CEO skimming millions off the top of a company is more productive than some line working putting in 60 hours a week?

Your argument is easy to spin -- McCain favors those with extravagant incomes, with the freedom to bask in leisure time, over those productive members of society who are struggling to support a family. It is McCain's plan that would punish the most productive in our society -- the middle class folks who are the core of our economy. If millions of families can't afford to buy medicine or pay for education, our future doesn't sound too promising. Talk about unethical or disrespectful.

Besides, how many people are making over $250k? Those who support Republican tax cuts likely don't realize they are probably better off under Obama's plan. I can't understand why middle-class people are often so inclined to support Republican policies that HURT them rather than help them.

http://alchemytoday.com/category/politifacts/

http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/

[lockmat]

As long as you realize only about 10% of Americans agree with you, and you don't try to force this extreme view down society's throat, I don't mind.

What's scary as that we're walking down the line of judging who does and does not deserve to live.

You have nothing to worry about, I will not be making those decisions.

McCain would shift more of the tax burden to the middle class in favor of greater tax relief for the wealthiest Americans. Isn't that redistribution of wealth?

No, it means they get to keep what they earned.

That's why we need something like the fair tax.

[barracuda]

Exactly. How can I be empathetic if I'm not able to be inpregnated and have a child? I cannot put myself in her situation.

I can have sympathy though, and I do.

However, I'd have more sympathy towards a child who had his or her choice to live taken away from them. What about respect and sympathy for them?

Just because their mother was inpregnated by her father does not mean they don't have the right to live.

Empathy doesn't require physically experiencing the event. You can try and empathize with an 11 y/o girl trying to raise a bastard kid without having been pregnant yourself. I imagine it would bring feelings of humiliation, powerlessness, anger, despair, etc. What kind of future does and 11 y/o with a child have to look forward to? But alas, since you claim you cannot empathize, I guess it's impossible to relate to this situation. You would rather have the government tell the kid what she can and cannot do with her own body. Way to sympathize.

[lockmat]

Your argument is easy to spin -- McCain favors those with extravagant incomes, with the freedom to bask in leisure time, over those productive members of society who are struggling to support a family. It is McCain's plan that would punish the most productive in our society -- the middle class folks who are the core of our economy. If millions of families can't afford to buy medicine or pay for education, our future doesn't sound too promising. Talk about unethical or disrespectful.

Besides, how many people are making over $250k? Those who support Republican tax cuts likely don't realize they are probably better off under Obama's plan. I can't understand why middle-class people are often so inclined to support Republican policies that HURT them rather than help them.

http://alchemytoday.com/category/politifacts/

http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/

McCain is not as much for the wealthy as he is defending them.

Why should they be punished for making more money.

I think some fail to see that there will always be someone who makes more or less than you. There's nothing wrong with that. Also, without the super rich, the poor wouldn't even have jobs. Who do we think is paying and creating positions those with less paying jobs?