The Mitchell Report Out Today

[musicman]

They really nail Clemens. Maybe it will knock his inflated ego down a peg.

hopefully no more HEB commercials either.

[RedScare]

hopefully no more HEB commercials either.

What? Are you kidding me? Who better to advertise growth hormone injected chicken and beef than the guy who profited most from it.

Imagine the possibilities.

[musicman]

What? Are you kidding me? Who better to advertise growth hormone injected chicken and beef than the guy who profited most from it.

Imagine the possibilities.

LOL true dat.

[Fringe]

Clemens hired Rusty Hardin to deny his steroid use for him.

Hardins

[musicman]

hiring hardin to deny being hardened.

[TJones]

What the hell is Clemens worried about. So what if he was doing 'roids ! All the guys he struck out were doing 'roids. I see an even playing field here.

[RedScare]

Hardins

[west20th]

hiring hardin to deny being hardened.

Is that the famous "F-you Rusty" of Anna Nichol fame?

[Mark F. Barnes]

The one and only "F-You" Rusty Hardin

[dbigtex56]

I will! Basically, baseball is exempt from anti-trust legislation, and to keep that exemption, it has to submit to congressional oversight. That's horribly over simplified, but it gives the flavor of the excuse politicans use to talk about baseball on the taxpayer's dime.

Thanks!

Not everyone can so clearly explain tortured logic.

Can we look forward to the same level of scrutiny for football?

Is that the famous "F-you Rusty" of Anna Nichol fame?

In defense of A.N. (never thought I'd utter those words), she said "Screw you, Rusty."

Throughout Houston it quickly became known as the "Anna and Rusty Show" thanks to a heated six-day cross-examination by Pierce Marshall's attorney. When he asked her on the stand if she'd been taking new acting lessons, she responded, "Screw you, Rusty."

source: ABC News

[lockmat]

What the hell is Clemens worried about. So what if he was doing 'roids ! All the guys he struck out were doing 'roids. I see an even playing field here.

Don't know if there's sarcasm there or not. But i guess Bonds gets a pass, too.

[sifuwong]

Don't know if there's sarcasm there or not. But i guess Bonds gets a pass, too.

Exactly. If Clemens gets a pass, so should Bonds, McGwire, etc.

[RedScare]

Andy Pettite admitted using HGH today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3156305

In effect, Pettite confirmed that what his trainer told Mitchell's people was true. The trainer, and Pettite, said that he used HGH on two occasions to heal from an elbow injury quicker. The problem for Roger Clemens is that Rusty Hardin is basing his defense on the uncorroborated statements of a "troubled man". Andy just corroborated the trainer's statements, inadvertantly torpedoeing Clemens.

What say you, Rusty?

[lockmat]

Andy Pettite admitted using HGH today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3156305

In effect, Pettite confirmed that what his trainer told Mitchell's people was true. The trainer, and Pettite, said that he used HGH on two occasions to heal from an elbow injury quicker. The problem for Roger Clemens is that Rusty Hardin is basing his defense on the uncorroborated statements of a "troubled man". Andy just corroborated the trainer's statements, inadvertantly torpedoeing Clemens.

What say you, Rusty?

Do you think this will affect their relationship? Ouch.

[RedScare]

Do you think this will affect their relationship? Ouch.

Not really. Andy did not say anything about Clemens. And, to be fair, Andy did not corroborate any of the allegations against Clemens. BUT, Rusty Hardin has suggested that nothing that this trainer said has been corroborated, and that he should not be believed just because he is a shady character. Well, now some of what he said HAS been corroborated, and by Clemens' friend and training partner. So, logic is not on Clemens' side, because logic suggests that the allegations are true.

Another tactic by Hardin is that McNamee (the trainer) was threatened with federal prosecution, so his statements are not credible...in other words, suggesting that McNamee lied to keep from getting indicted. Well, we know he told the truth about Pettite. Does it make any sense that he would then LIE about Clemens...especially, since the deal was to tell the TRUTH or go to jail?

Since there will be no prosecutions, the only court is the court of public opinion. My court of opinion says Clemens juiced. Your mileage may vary.

[sifuwong]

Not really. Andy did not say anything about Clemens. And, to be fair, Andy did not corroborate any of the allegations against Clemens. BUT, Rusty Hardin has suggested that nothing that this trainer said has been corroborated, and that he should not be believed just because he is a shady character. Well, now some of what he said HAS been corroborated, and by Clemens' friend and training partner. So, logic is not on Clemens' side, because logic suggests that the allegations are true.

Another tactic by Hardin is that McNamee (the trainer) was threatened with federal prosecution, so his statements are not credible...in other words, suggesting that McNamee lied to keep from getting indicted. Well, we know he told the truth about Pettite. Does it make any sense that he would then LIE about Clemens...especially, since the deal was to tell the TRUTH or go to jail?

Since there will be no prosecutions, the only court is the court of public opinion. My court of opinion says Clemens juiced. Your mileage may vary.

Roger needs to come clean. If he keeps denying it, there will be more stories that could make it even more shameful. Just come clean since this country is so forgiving. Come clean and move on! I remember back when Ken Caminiti was still alive. He said over 60% of MLB are using steroids, but everyone blew him off. I guess not anymore.

Oh BTW,..Jose Canseco has some 'stuff' on Alex Rodriguez also. He will put it in his next book. I heard that he will also add a list that the Mitchell report DID NOT include.

[SecondTour]

Pettitte coming clean certainly helps the credibility of the document and hurts the credibility of the players denying it. Hats off to Pettitte for being honest, even if it was forced.

Here's an interesting graph that ran in The Times a few days ago.

Looks like the only thing Roger gained was an extended carrer (possibly).

His ERA was above his average for most of his alleged steroid years.

[sifuwong]

Pettitte coming clean certainly helps the credibility of the document and hurts the credibility of the players denying it. Hats off to Pettitte for being honest, even if it was forced.

Here's an interesting graph that ran in The Times a few days ago.

Looks like the only thing Roger gained was an extended carrer (possibly).

His ERA was above his average for most of his alleged steroid years.

So as a result of his extended career, he got more $$$$. I guess that is the bottom line for these players.

[lockmat]

Holy Friggin Cow. This is huge. This phone call and press conference was crazy.

[Chris]

Holy Friggin Cow. This is huge. This phone call and press conference was crazy.

Yeah, It was crazy. I watched the entire conference live on ABC 13's 4 pm Newscast. They couldn't show the phonecall due to explicit language. After the phonecall they came back in the conference live and Roger answered questions until one reporter asked one that kinda pushed one of his buttuns. He then left out of the room after about 25 minutes of answering questions. I personally don not believe Roger Clemens took steroids. But then again, why would someone make this whole thing up.

[lockmat]

The beginning of the phone call was being played on the radio as I turned on my car to leave work. The fact that it was recorded and played made it feel like a really big deal.

The thing is, I think there's reason to believe both sides, but it's more of a sentiment thing w/ Clemens. But I still think Mitchell and the trainer have the leverage. I don't like the court of public opinion since it always thinks the party is guilty first.

[N8TIV]

Nice logic, Rog- "I won 7 Cy Youngs, I couldn't possibly have taken steroids"

William Roger Clemens v. Brian McNamee

1/7/2008 2008-00703

Defamation of character action in which the plaintiff's former trainer, defendant McNamee, falsely claimed the plaintiff "used, possessed, or was injected with steroids and/or HGH in 1998, 2000 and 2001," The defendant made the allegations, published on Dec. 13, 2007 by former U.S. Senator George Mitchell, to federal authorities after being threatened with criminal prosecution if he did not implicate Clemens. Over the course of his more than 20 year pitching career in major league baseball Clemens received the Cy Young award seven times

[lockmat]

I recently heard the report that's available to the public is not the entire document and that the rest can only be seen by congress. Is this true?

[Mark F. Barnes]

Only problem with the issue, did he use steroids, did he not use steroids, is anything prior to August 7, 2002 is a moot point. Major League Baseball's adopted their newly strengthened ban on controlled substances, including steroids, starting in the 2003 season. So until it's made illegal it's legal correct. If they were using, Bonds, Clemens, and McGwire, would not be the only player to do what they may have, or may not have done. Second, let

[lockmat]

I think it was Jason Stark that said the releasing of the Mitchell Report was a bad idea. I disagreed at first, but now I'm not sure. The hearsay is just that and I don't know what good it does.

[RedScare]

I really could not care less about multi-millionaires throwing temper tantrums. Those that want to put Clemens on a pedestal will find plenty of reasons to do so. Those of us that suspected it prior to his being outed have not heard anything to change our minds. This is merely a male version of a Hollywood drama. I will not waste any of my short life reading about it, or debating it.

[west20th]

Only problem with the issue, did he use steroids, did he not use steroids, is anything prior to August 7, 2002 is a moot point. Major League Baseball's adopted their newly strengthened ban on controlled substances, including steroids, starting in the 2003 season.

Steroids, for the most part, have been illegal since 1988. The fact that baseball was almost 15 years too late with their policy in no way jusitifes their use.

[CDeb]

Steroids, for the most part, have been illegal since 1988. The fact that baseball was almost 15 years too late with their policy is the moot point.

It's not moot in the sense that being a criminal is not the same thing as being a cheat in the eyes of sport.

[SecondTour]

Baseball theater at it's finest.

Roger waited way too long to respond to any of this. Every move he's made since the report was released, and the amount of time he took to do so, have felt calculated and rehearsed. The very types of responses that guilty people usually have.

The Mike Wallace interview was meaningless. Wallace and Clemens are personal friends, hence Roger picking him for his first of several calculated moves. No depth to the questions, no follow-ups to the answers.

Yesterday's press conference, complete with rehearsed outrage and sarcasm directed at the reporters - "can I drink water?... is that good or bad?..." - was just more of Clemens posturing - sort of an "I'm outraged and insulted, how dare you?!" type of response to all the reporters, news stations, fans, etc. Embarrassing. On the Wallace interview - "I wish the person who supplied me with the needles would come forward, really I do". Yesterday - "the injections he gave me..." Well Roger, which is it - mystery supplier or McNamee?

The taped phone call - a new low for Roger. How sad to have to listen to someone who isn't aware they are being recorded while someone else listens in, hoping they'll lie. Disgraceful on the part of the Clemens camp.

Also, along those lines - knowing he was being recorded and the tape was going to be played at his press conference - why in the world would Clemens not at the very least say "why did you lie about me?...", "you know I've never taken steroids..." or something in his own defense? Instead, he just asks him "why did you do it", "I need someone to tell the truth", etc, etc. 17 embarrassing minutes wasted.

The repeated comments that he doesn't give a rat's ### about records or the hall of fame?

[lockmat]

Also, along those lines - knowing he was being recorded and the tape was going to be played at his press conference - why in the world would Clemens not at the very least say "why did you lie about me?...", "you know I've never taken steroids..." or something in his own defense? Instead, he just asks him "why did you do it", "I need someone to tell the truth", etc, etc. 17 embarrassing minutes wasted.

It always seems like when they're lying, they never do the obvious. Is it a simple as cuz they don't think about it?

If he really is lying, he's got huge balls if he follows through and says the same thing in front of congress. I guess these guys just think they're invincible.