Car Talk → 2022

[Subdude]

Speaking of car talk, Dodge is killing the Magnum. Time to grab and SRT8 while you can.

Yep, and also killing the PT Cruiser convertible and the Pacificia. They should also consider killing the Dodge Caliber, on grounds of extreme ugliness if nothing else.

[Subdude]

New BMW 1-Series coupe from Autoblog. Thoughts?

[gwilson]

New BMW 1-Series coupe from Autoblog. Thoughts?

As a former BMW owner, I can say the only BMW I'd buy now is the 6/m6.

That is all.

[Subdude]

It's not bad, but the curved indentation between the wheels makes it look like it has a sagging belly.

The new Malibu is downright sexy.

Isn't the new Malibu another iteration of the Saturn Aura/Opel Vectra? I was looking at pictures and the interiors look almost identical.

[MidtownCoog]

The only 1-Series that's decent is the hatchback. It looks a lot like a Mazda 3 hatchback.

They say it won't come here becuase they don't want the 1-Series competing with the Mini.

[Subdude]

The only 1-Series that's decent is the hatchback. It looks a lot like a Mazda 3 hatchback.

They say it won't come here becuase they don't want the 1-Series competing with the Mini.

Probably more because Americans are assumed to hate hatchbacks.

[urban909]

Yep, nothing like some good ol' "torque steer" to throw you into a ditch, huh ?

I'm just saying, I can't recall seeing a whole heck of alot of FWD racecars out there.

are you talking about aftermarket or stock. the new mazdaspeed3 is the fastest FWD stock car to come out recently...

[jm1fd]

are you talking about aftermarket or stock. the new mazdaspeed3 is the fastest FWD stock car to come out recently...

I think he's talking about the real thing. RACE CAR. You know...F1, Indy, NASCAR, etc.

[Talbot]

I love hatchbacks, Although I have a Mazda 6, my cousin owns a Mazda 3 5 door and it is a great looking car.

[Subdude]

I've always loved station wagons/hatchbacks too. You can't beat the practicality. With small cars, it seems to me that the proportions of a hatchback look a lot better than sedans with stubby little trunks.

[MidtownCoog]

Hold(en) on to your seats, this "El Camino" sounds FAST!

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/...02/pageNumber=1

[sevfiv]

I've always loved station wagons/hatchbacks too. You can't beat the practicality. With small cars, it seems to me that the proportions of a hatchback look a lot better than sedans with stubby little trunks.

I agree, though I can't get Niles' (from Frasier) term out of my head

The rental agency didn't have a single luxury car left. They stuck me with some vehicle I think they call a hunchback.

I recently purchased one, though, and I am quite happy - it is a fugly car, but it grows on you. Good gas mileage, comfortable, and every seat (except driver's) folds flat for extra cargo room.

[Subdude]

Hold(en) on to your seats, this "El Camino" sounds FAST!

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/...02/pageNumber=1

That's great they're bringing it to the US, but too bad it will be sold as a Pontiac. I suppose it will get a lot of plastic cladding and such.

[MidtownCoog]

Hopefully they don't add a plastic butt. That's so Pontiac.

My neighbor just got the Volvo C30. Looks fun.

[Subdude]

I didn't realize that was sold in the US. Strange that it is only offered in 3-door format. They must be giving up a lot of sales without a 5-door. Not bad-looking though.

[MidtownCoog]

I think the "five door" is the V40.

[jm1fd]

My neighbor just got the Volvo C30. Looks fun.

I was disappointed they didn't offer an AWD option on this car. Maybe they'll do a C30 R version with a high output engine and AWD later in the production run....

[Mr. Chenevert]

They dont need AWD on that car. The weight penalty of AWD would ruin the car.

Bringing the diesel powerplant over to the states and allowing the car to get 50mpg would be ideal.

[Subdude]

I think the "five door" is the V40.

That's at least a size bigger.

What would be the advantage of AWD on a car like the C30? For that matter, I'm not sure of the advantage of AWD in Houston. Snow and ice are few and far between. Is it for the road-handling as you sit in traffic on the Katy Freeway?

[TJones]

As far as the Buick, the Chinese apparently LOVE Buicks, it is THE luxury brand there. http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/04/2008-...hinese-get.html

Perhaps an S-Class/7-Series would be a more appropriate comparison.

Yeah, it's mostly older Chinese men in their 70's. They like the trunk space for their golfclubs. As soon as these geezers start keeling over like the market here has, the Buicks will cool off.

[MidtownCoog]

I don't think you need AWD in Houston. It's for them folks up in the snow belt.

[sunsets]

The AWD on my Subaru saved my butt once last summer, on 45 during a torrential downpour. I was doing 55 or so, and hit a patch of highway that was pretty much submerged in a couple of inches of water. I felt the back end of the car get loose, I started to skid, and I felt the AWD kick in (transferred more power to the wheels with traction) and was able to maintain control.

That said, the car came with me from the snowy north (Montana, where you have a Subaru or a pickup) and it's probably not something I'd purchase again if I was planning on staying in Houston.

[MidtownCoog]

My car has electronic stability control and can do the same thing, just without having AWD.

You can even disable it if you feel like burning rubber.

[Subdude]

As a former BMW owner, I can say the only BMW I'd buy now is the 6/m6.That is all.

I saw the new 1-Series today. Not exactly Style King. The Bangle-ized sheet metal seems overdone on the sides.

I think the "five door" is the V40.

Volvo will be introducing a C30 wagon version.Per Autoblog

[MidtownCoog]

I read in Forbes an AWD v30 is coming next year.

[jm1fd]

That's at least a size bigger.

What would be the advantage of AWD on a car like the C30? For that matter, I'm not sure of the advantage of AWD in Houston. Snow and ice are few and far between. Is it for the road-handling as you sit in traffic on the Katy Freeway?

Better traction/control in messy conditions, and better handling in dry conditions.

[Subdude]

Who got there first?

BMW X6

Ssangyong Actyon

BMW has so jumped the shark.

[TJones]

Maybe it was Dodge ?...........

[Lwilliams]

Blazing new trails in ugliness, I give you the Hummer H3T pickup truck.

Who would buy one of these things?

doesn't seem this has been released a 1/2 year later (or if it has, i'm not up to date) ... but i have to disagree with your 'Blazing new trails in ugliness' comment. although i do think it looks a little "lego"ish, i do kinda like it.

Cheers

[MidtownCoog]

I heard those X6s have problems with oil burn.

BMW became lost after the fugged-up the 5 Series.

[Subdude]

I heard those X6s have problems with oil burn.

BMW became lost after the fugged-up the 5 Series.

BMW became lost even before that with the Bangle-ized fugly Z5. And around the same time with the hated i-Drive. BMW lost their way when they decided to stop focusing on agile and sporty and instead focus on over-styled land barges.

doesn't seem this has been released a 1/2 year later (or if it has, i'm not up to date) ... but i have to disagree with your 'Blazing new trails in ugliness' comment. although i do think it looks a little "lego"ish, i do kinda like it.

Cheers

If you like Hummers now is the time to buy one. GM announced yesterday they are putting Hummer on "strategic review", meaning probably selling the brand or shutting it down. I'm sure the dealers will be practically giving them away today.

[RedScare]

If you like Hummers now is the time to buy one. GM announced yesterday they are putting Hummer on "strategic review", meaning probably selling the brand or shutting it down. I'm sure the dealers will be practically giving them away today.

GM Shutting down 4 Truck Plants

[RedScare]

More bad truck and SUV news.

May Sales

Look at the chart in the article. Ford trucks down 31%, and Chevy down 42%.

[MidtownCoog]

Americans still make a better truck than Toy(ota). The Toy wants to be an F150 so bad you can see it in the design. Remember the commerical when "they asked how to make American trucks better"?

It's not like Toy has great MPG unless you drive 52.5 in the slow lane late at night.

Real truck buyers never bought Toyota to begin with, which is why you see a 4% decline vs. the American trucks.

[RedScare]

Real truck buyers never bought Toyota to begin with, which is why you see a 4% decline vs. the American trucks.

Perhaps you should read the article closer. Toyota overall sales are down 4% versus May 2007 sales. Chevy trucks are down 42% versus May 2007. Ford trucks are down 31% versus May 2007.

"Real truck buyers" dropped 42%. Fake truck buyers only dropped 4%.

[flipper]

"Real truck buyers" dropped 42%. Fake truck buyers only dropped 4%.

I love my 04 "fake truck". Kicks the butt of any other truck I've owned.

flipper

[ChrisP]

doesn't seem this has been released a 1/2 year later (or if it has, i'm not up to date) ... but i have to disagree with your 'Blazing new trails in ugliness' comment. although i do think it looks a little "lego"ish, i do kinda like it.

Cheers

hello everyone,

Yeah, I think it is very ugly too!! I like the American trucks better than the Toy(ota) ones----good play on words!!

Edited June 16, 2008 by ChrisP

[TJones]

Well, technically, Toyota Tundra IS an "American truck", as they are built in San Antonio. But, the Nissan Titan, destroys ALL in class. The Titan is also built in America NOT Japan.

Edited June 16, 2008 by TJones

[ricco67]

Well, technically, Toyota Tundra IS an "American truck", as they are built in San Antonio. But, the Nissan Titan, destroys ALL in class. The Titan is also built in America NOT Japan.

That's true, but I've been seeing a number of Titans and Tundra trucks being used as "work trucks" by contractors.

[TJones]

That's true, but I've been seeing a number of Titans and Tundra trucks being used as "work trucks" by contractors.

If I wasn't hauling anything over 8000 pounds, Titan would be my truck in a heartbeat.

Red, if you ask if that is with or without ME in the truck, YOU will catch a serious beatdown the next time I see you !!!!

Edited June 16, 2008 by TJones

[Subdude]

Thought this was interesting. Kia is taking dead aim at the Scion xB.

One big outcome of current gas prices is that now America will be getting a lot fewer fat land barges and more of the cars the rest of the world drives. Ford will be selling a lot more of its European cars (Fiesta, Focus, maybe Mondeo) and GM has already turned Saturn over to Opel. Interesting times in auto-land!

Autoblog

[RedScare]

2009 will be interesting, but nothing like the 2010 models. That is when the lag time from when the automakers realized, "Oh crap, we need to make some smaller cars!", to production will end. As for mpg, if you can hold out until 2010, that is when you'll see some real advances in economy as well. Frankly, while 30 mpg is nice, I just do not see that as overly impressive. 40 mpg is when I feel like they've put some thought and engineering into it.

I'm hoping to see the return of the turbocharger, too.

[Subdude]

2009 will be interesting, but nothing like the 2010 models. That is when the lag time from when the automakers realized, "Oh crap, we need to make some smaller cars!", to production will end. As for mpg, if you can hold out until 2010, that is when you'll see some real advances in economy as well. Frankly, while 30 mpg is nice, I just do not see that as overly impressive. 40 mpg is when I feel like they've put some thought and engineering into it.

I'm hoping to see the return of the turbocharger, too.

And you shall have your wish, at least if you get a Mercedes. I believe they are adding turbos to all their lines over the next two years.

I've said this before, but it's not like the technology for higher mileage cars doesn't exist. Of course it does. Cars sold in America 20 years ago had higher mileage than anything available today. The current model of the Ford Fiesta gets about 40 mpg, and of course more with the diesel, and that's hardly exceptional. Of course, the mileage means a trade-off in size and engine power.

[jm1fd]

I'm hoping to see the return of the turbocharger, too.

You shall. Ford is working on a whole line of engines using turbocharging and direct injection under the marketing name "Eco Boost". GM is planning on putting a little ~1.4L turbo D.I. 4-cyl in their Cavalier/Cobalt replacement.

Cars sold in America 20 years ago had higher mileage than anything available today.

Indeed....of course you fail to mention that they had to meet a much lower set of safety and emissions standards than the cars of today.

[RedScare]

You shall. Ford is working on a whole line of engines using turbocharging and direct injection under the marketing name "Eco Boost". GM is planning on putting a little ~1.4L turbo D.I. 4-cyl in their Cavalier/Cobalt replacement.

Yeah, I had seen the 1.4l turbo that GM was planning, so I hoped that meant several more were in the pipeline. There were several turbo models around in the 80s, and then they all disappeared. I wondered why, but my suspicion is that the automakers found it cheaper to just build bigger gas guzzling engines, since gas was so cheap, than to build technologically superior ones.

Indeed....of course you fail to mention that they had to meet a much lower set of safety and emissions standards than the cars of today.

That is true of the smaller cars. However, look for better use of computer engineering to bring down the weight/safety ratio. After that, it is merely a matter of educating the public. Already, the largest vehicles are not the safest. Trucks and large SUVs routinely rank lower than the better engineered cars in crash tests and rollover ratings. Smart's geometry makes it remarkably crash efficient for its size...and in general. It outranks many trucks in side impact tests.

Edited July 26, 2008 by RedScare

[Subdude]

You shall. GM is planning on putting a little ~1.4L turbo D.I. 4-cyl in their Cavalier/Cobalt replacement.

Is that the Chevy Cruze? Just reading that name makes my eyeballs bleed.

Indeed....of course you fail to mention that they had to meet a much lower set of safety and emissions standards than the cars of today.

Have there been significant changes in safety and emissions standards over the past two decades? I thought the major safety requirements were introduced in the 1970s and 1980s, as were catalytic converters. I really do think that the reason cars today get worse mileage is that they are a lot bigger and more powerful.

Already, the largest vehicles are not the safest. Trucks and large SUVs routinely rank lower than the better engineered cars in crash tests and rollover ratings. Smart's geometry makes it remarkably crash efficient for its size...and in general. It outranks many trucks in side impact tests.

Plenty of small cars get 5-star NCAP ratings.

[MidtownCoog]

All this small car talks saddens me...

Is a lovely V8 or V10 the new Rolex?

[TJones]

Yes Subdude, if you want HP you sacrifice fuel economy. How were cadillacs getting mid 20 fuel economy in the 80's. Look at the HP compared to today, it was roughly HALF if today's output. How were Hyundais getting 40 mpg back then ? 80hp engine does surprising well on gas as opposed to 120hp, that is why you only get 30 mpg now.

Red, I'll prove your data about smart cars wrong. We'll go rent an Expedition and a smart car. We will take out the full coverage insurance on both. We will then take turns smashing into each other in our own little side impact test, at say 50mph ? I will even let you go first with you driving in your smart car.

Edited July 27, 2008 by TJones

[RedScare]

Yes Subdude, if you want HP you sacrifice fuel economy. How were cadillacs getting mid 20 fuel economy in the 80's. Look at the HP compared to today, it was roughly HALF if today's output. How were Hyundais getting 40 mpg back then ? 80hp engine does surprising well on gas as opposed to 120hp, that is why you only get 30 mpg now.

Red, I'll prove your data about smart cars wrong. We'll go rent an Expedition and a smart car. We will take out the full coverage insurance on both. We will then take turns smashing into each other in our own little side impact test, at say 50mph ? I will even let you go first with you driving in your smart car.

No need, TJ. It occurred to me that certain drivers recognize that they are poor drivers, and they recognize the need to surround themselves with tons of metal to protect themselves from themselves. Drivers that use their vehicle as a rolling living room, complete with phone, tv and stereo, are much less attentive and much more prone to accidents, either by causing them themselves, or by their inability to avoid one. They also may have their hands full of Big Macs and cokes, reducing their ability to take evasive action. I can understand why inattentive drivers would feel the need to drive larger vehicles.

Statistics bear me out. In spite of having the heaviest vehicle fleet in the worls, US traffic fatality rates are at or near the top against nearly every other country. Despit having much smaller vehicles and hillier and curvier roads, countries such as Germany, France and Great Britain have fatality rates one half of the US. Since the vehicles are smaller, and therefore by your logic, less safe, this gap can only be attributed to the fact that Europeans actually pay attention to driving.

All this small car talks saddens me...

Oh, Coog. Live a little. There is more to life than straight lines and NASCAR.

[RedScare]

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

SUVs Deadlier Than Cars

It appears that all of that steel protecting you from the great unwashed car drivers becomes your enemy once you become upside down.

But the main reason for the safety gap in S.U.V. and car fatalities, according to federal regulators, is that S.U.V.'s are more likely to roll over, a particularly deadly accident event that is a symptom of their higher ground clearance.

''It's largely a function of the rollover problem,'' said Rae Tyson, a spokesman for the traffic agency. ''In certain types of crashes, you're more likely to be better off in an S.U.V., but that is offset by the fact the you're more likely to roll over.''

Joan Claybrook, president of the consumer advocacy group Public Citizen and a former top auto safety regulator, said, ''There's no question that the rollover problem with S.U.V.'s really undermines their safety.''

The traffic safety agency reported last week that there were 16.42 deaths of S.U.V. occupants in accidents last year for every 100,000 registered S.U.V.'s. The figure for passenger cars was 14.85 deaths for each 100,000 registered; pickups were slightly higher than cars at 15.17 deaths per 100,000, while vans were lowest at 11.2 occupant deaths for every 100,000 registered.

Not to mention that driving a land yacht is yawningly fun.