Washington Avenue More Urban Than Midtown

[barracuda]

So is there a trendy term we can create and hurl against a neighborhood's long-time residents who have abdicated their responsibility to maintain both their homes and neighborhood? Because this is what led to 3rd Wards demise. Funny how people blame white people for leaving (white flight) and white people for returning (gentrification) as the source of all the neighborhoods ills. (actually its white, black, Asian, Hispanic, etc that are returning) The question that remains unanswered is what happened inbetween?

I don't believe it's always a racial thing, but I agree that there is definitely a perception that "yuppies" or "suburbanites" are ruining or have ruined areas like Midtown and the third ward by moving in and displacing older residents. This, despite the fact that many of the new developments are built on abandoned lots in sparsely populated neighborhoods that are far beyond decay. The real tragedy is that areas like Midtown ever declined in the first place. But I do get annoyed at this perception that, by moving into these areas, you are supposed to be filled with guilt because the crack house and brothel down the street might see higher property taxes as a result.

That said, I do wholeheartedly agree that affordable housing needs to be available when there are displaced residents, and they shouldn't be forced out of their homes. But many of them are renters and have no choice once the owner decides to sell.

In the case of the third ward, we the Midtown taxpayers are funding this preservation. Whether or not the buildings in question deserve taxpayer-funded preservation depends on the eye of the beholder, as I'm sure some of the dilapidated structures being preserved have value to someone besides Garnet Coleman.

But in my opinion, development is inevitable when many of the structures are dilapidated and surrounded by abandoned lots. Instead of funneling the money to keep people in old dilapidated housing, I'd rather see the zoning restrictions to limit the kinds of housing/buildings that can be built, identify and preserve those structures deemed to have historical or cultural significance, and use our tax money to help low-income residents afford to keep a place to live if they are in fact displaced or priced out of the market. I know zoning is a bad thing in Houston and opens up a whole other can of worms and I probably shouldn't have brought it up, but if the free market is left to decide, it will likely build nothing but three-story townhouses crammed as closely together as possible and shut out the existing residents who can't afford them. At least on that note I probably agree with Coleman.

[brian0123]

Yes infrastructure has been improved, thanks in a large part to Federal Matching funds. Just imagine how far along the process would be if the funds AND Federal Matching funds had been utilized.

As a resident, I believe that is how development should occur. Midtown is doing it completely right by doing phased development for infrastructure improvements (especially with Federal Matching funds instead of us having to pay for it all). It would be a mess if we had Elgin, McGowen, Gray, etc. all torn up at the same time. Also, Midtown's budget in years past isn't what it is now. As Midtown grows, the budget increases.

Also, you keep forgetting that they are spending the budget based on what the law is. If you have problems with how the budget is spent, GO TO THE MIDTOWN MEETINGS. They are open to the public, and you can probably even talk to Garnett afterwards. According to the calender, they are meeting June 25th . If you don't go to a meeting to learn, then you are in no position to be upset until you have all the facts.

[EMME]

But I do get annoyed at this perception that, by moving into these areas, you are supposed to be filled with guilt because the crack house and brothel down the street might see higher property taxes as a result.

And there you go, assuming that only, or even mostly, crackhouses and brothels were displaced. The third and fourth wards were home to many many hard working, church going folks.

[houston_urban_fan]

That said, I do wholeheartedly agree that affordable housing needs to be available when there are displaced residents, and they shouldn't be forced out of their homes. But many of them are renters and have no choice once the owner decides to sell.

I'm glad you made the point about many being renters because when you realize the degree of renters in the 3rd ward you begin to gain additional insight into how people are displaced.

One of the biggest lies told by those crying Gentrification is that the developers force people out of their homes. This is an often repeated misrepresentation that displays a level of ignorance about the market and tax system. With the fervor this lie is repeatedly told you would think that developers are showing up with bullhorns announcing that you have 15 minutes to vacate the premises!

Taxing Authorities, Building Code departments and Courts are some of the entities that force people out of houses not developers. The homeowner that is delinquent on their taxes or neglects to maintain their property is solely responsible for this.

A quick scan of www.publicans.com will demonstrate tons of delinquent properties in 77004 nowhere near redevelopment. Who do you blame for these?

Even if developers build new homes in the area your taxes to a large degree are still based on the size and condition of your home. A one-story 2 bedroom home built in the 1920's may have little comparable properties if the nearest homes are 3 story townhomes. The choice to accept and not contest an over-valued property tax appraisal rests solely on the homeowner. Don't blame the developers for you lack of self-preservation.

Furthermore you have the homestead exemption and the over-65 exemption that combined take a sizeable chunk out of ones tax bill.

Ideally I think that the best approach would be a 100% property tax exemption for those 65 and up who have remained and maintained a home in decent repair in a redeveloping neighborhood. Given that individuals meeting this description already have a fixed and limited income, and the property is no doubt worth less than newer homes the loss of this tax income will be minimal.

Politian

[houston_urban_fan]

As a resident, I believe that is how development should occur. Midtown is doing it completely right by doing phased development for infrastructure improvements (especially with Federal Matching funds instead of us having to pay for it all). It would be a mess if we had Elgin, McGowen, Gray, etc. all torn up at the same time. Also, Midtown's budget in years past isn't what it is now. As Midtown grows, the budget increases.

Agreed. That was not my point. My point was money should be spent along the lines of what it was intended for, i.e. improvements. What is occurring is land assemblage that far exceeds the amount of space required and cost required to build homes. If you can build affordable housing anywhere then it

[barracuda]

And there you go, assuming that only, or even mostly, crackhouses and brothels were displaced. The third and fourth wards were home to many many hard working, church going folks.

Sorry, but I was referencing my neighborhood. We had an old apartment across the street where some drug dealers lived, so we called it the crack house. There was also whorehouse a few lots down. I was actually sad to see the japanese whorehouse close up a few years ago - it added character to the neighborhood.

[houston_urban_fan]

Sorry, but I was referencing my neighborhood. We had an old apartment across the street where some drug dealers lived, so we called it the crack house. There was also whorehouse a few lots down. I was actually sad to see the japanese whorehouse close up a few years ago - it added character to the neighborhood.

Ahh, that must have been the "New" Tokyo Studio on Chenevert? (The old name was Chop Stix, which I'm sure received a few calls a day for delivery or carry out)

So that leaves Midtown with only one remaining Modeling Studio? (Aloha on Bagby, assuming those EVIL developers haven't already bulldozed it)

Darn Gentrification is killing the neighborhood! Next thing you know they will convert the Midtowne Spa bath house on Fannin and Elgin into some sort of hipster lounge.

[TheNiche]

Ahh, that must have been the "New" Tokyo Studio on Chenevert? (The old name was Chop Stix, which I'm sure received a few calls a day for delivery or carry out)

So that leaves Midtown with only one remaining Modeling Studio? (Aloha on Bagby, assuming those EVIL developers haven't already bulldozed it)

Darn Gentrification is killing the neighborhood! Next thing you know they will convert the Midtowne Spa bath house on Fannin and Elgin into some sort of hipster lounge.

There's a really low-key modeling studio that I happened upon a few years ago while I was scoping out properties in the East Downtown Warehouse District (or EaDo if you're into that name). I want to say that it was St. Emanuel or Bastrop Street, and Dallas or McKinney. Somewhere in that vicinity.

[UpperWestEnder]

Regarding whether Washington Avenue is more urban than Midtown, who among us hasn't been to Manhattan? To me that's what urban looks like. Houston has its own definitions. It's never going to be true high density, completely walkable neighborhoods with a full mix of retail, housing, restaurants and bars. I'm okay with that.

I moved to the Washington Avenue corridor because it was less expensive than Midtown while allowing me to be close to Midtown. As has been pointed out Midtown has parking garages, better sidewalks, a grid street pattern while Washington Avenue is a three mile stretch of poorly maintained sidewalks and little to no parking for the volume of people that go there in the evenings. Now that Washington Avenue has developed, I like it in different ways than I like Midtown. I'm being somewhat selfish because I can walk to Washington, but I like the grit. I like the mix of old and new. The morning after Ike some friends and I walked down Jackson Hill to the Allen Pkwy and then over to the Sabine bridge and back up to Washington Avenue. The street has a lot of character and potential.

I only wish we did proactive infrastructure improvement. If the city had repaved Shepherd and put in all new side walks in 2005-2006 it would have laid a solid foundation for the area to improve upon.

[longhornguy]

The fact that you have your choice of walking/short bike ride to Buff Bayou Park of Memorial Park is a big selling point of Washington.

Whether this constitutes urban or not, I'm not sure, but Memorial Park does remind me of a juxtaposed Central Park.

I know Midtown theoretically has Hermann Park, but I believe the number of park visitors to Memorial Park outnumbers Hermann greatly.

[rsb320]

The fact that you have your choice of walking/short bike ride to Buff Bayou Park of Memorial Park is a big selling point of Washington.

Whether this constitutes urban or not, I'm not sure, but Memorial Park does remind me of a juxtaposed Central Park.

I know Midtown theoretically has Hermann Park, but I believe the number of park visitors to Memorial Park outnumbers Hermann greatly.

That's an interesting thought (Memorial vs. Hermann attendance). I guess the count would depend on if you're counting joggers, being that Hermann is not a runner's park; that'd be Rice U. Hermann has the zoo, nearby museums, Rice, two train stations and Miller Outdoor. Both have golf courses.

[brian0123]

The fact that you have your choice of walking/short bike ride to Buff Bayou Park of Memorial Park is a big selling point of Washington.

Whether this constitutes urban or not, I'm not sure, but Memorial Park does remind me of a juxtaposed Central Park.

I know Midtown theoretically has Hermann Park, but I believe the number of park visitors to Memorial Park outnumbers Hermann greatly.

Not sure I would say Memorial is like a Central Park. IMHO, Herman is way more of an "urban", central park. Also, the number of joggers does not make a park more "urban". Instead, I would judge it based on the variety of users that attend the park.

For example, I used to live along Washington and now I own in Midtown. From my experience, I hardly used Memorial Park. It's a great place if you are into jogging/biking (or play league sports on one of the fields)... however, I still ended up just jogging/biking along Buffalo Bayou into downtown. I also found myself driving to Herman all the time for golf/Miller Outdoor/Picnics/etc.

Now that I live in Midtown, I go to Herman all the time. On nice days, I'll ride the bike there in 10 minutes. Other times I'll ride the rail down (something you can't do at Memorial). Also, Herman is more of a melting pot and gathering space for different types of users... from museum goers, to golfers, to joggers/bikers, to event-goers at Miller, to zoo patrons, to people coming over from the Hospitals, to people dressed up all fancy coming from Za Za or other restaurants, to tourists, weddings, etc.

[longhornguy]

You're right, I was counting joggers at Memorial Park, it just makes the park seem that much more lively. Hermann does have the perks of the Museum district. Both parks do have their good points...what a great city to have these choices.

[lcc179]

I moved to the Washington Avenue corridor because it was less expensive than Midtown while allowing me to be close to Midtown. As has been pointed out Midtown has parking garages, better sidewalks, a grid street pattern while Washington Avenue is a three mile stretch of poorly maintained sidewalks and little to no parking for the volume of people that go there in the evenings. Now that Washington Avenue has developed, I like it in different ways than I like Midtown. I'm being somewhat selfish because I can walk to Washington, but I like the grit. I like the mix of old and new. The morning after Ike some friends and I walked down Jackson Hill to the Allen Pkwy and then over to the Sabine bridge and back up to Washington Avenue. The street has a lot of character and potential.

I also live off Washington and agree that Midtown has a better infrastructure to be urban with its grid and sidewalks. I used to rent a townhouse in Midtown before I bought a place on Washington and I would walk to the restaurants and bars in Midtown all the time. Granted, it was mainly Post Midtown Square but the sidewalks and having a nice in between place to walk by made it alot more friendly to walk around. Washington is a long stretch with empty lots in between the establishments making it less friendly to walk up and down.

With that said, I feel more general excitement around the Washington area. This may be due to it being the new "it" spot for bars and lounges and may go away once a different area is the new trend. But places like Washington Centre will help sustainability along with the numerous other non-bar projects that are happening.

[houston_urban_fan]

With that said, I feel more general excitement around the Washington area. This may be due to it being the new "it" spot for bars and lounges and may go away once a different area is the new trend. But places like Washington Centre will help sustainability along with the numerous other non-bar projects that are happening.

I also sense the excitement on Washington Ave. Things are popping up so fast its mind-boggling. The question that begs to be answered is how and why of the development. I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any central authority tasked with getting the word out and revitalizing Washington Ave. It appears that this has occurred organically, without the "assistance" of a revitalization org or management group. Hmmmmm. On the other hand we have a centralized revitalization and management district that we support via our tax dollars and annual assessments. Yet somehow Midtown struggles to attract the vibrant businesses we see popping up in Washington Ave and beyond. Kudos to the district and TIRZ for repairing Midtown streets, but unfortunately you still have empty buildings and retail adjacent to the new streets.

I think the management district and the TIRZ can spend millions fixing streets, adding planters, logo signs, on street parking, but they will still lose out to other areas until they get serious about what causes prospective investors to turn the car around and leave Midtown. (for Washington, upper Kirby, etc)

I think the laissez faire attitude by the district, the city, and HPD towards the ever-increasing homeless problem is single largest detriment to Midtown's success. The problem as I see it is that the various homeless groups are very effective at Guilt Marketing. Every town hall I've attended with the homeless as a topic has ended up as a masterful spin-job by the various homeless groups and capitulating public official of the month. Income Guilt is the opiate of the young urban Midtowner who walks in fired up about their property rights taking a backseat to the rights of the homeless and leaves feeling guilty or shouted down by the professionals at Homeless-Outreach Inc. How ironic that the homeless and homeless outreach both utilize guilt to either obtain your money or your silence.

The facts are you work hard for your income and home. You spend 50+ hours working to pay your mortgage and taxes, yet you

[musicman]

I also sense the excitement on Washington Ave. Things are popping up so fast its mind-boggling. The question that begs to be answered is how and why of the development.

it's the bar/club cycle which moved from midtown a few yrs ago.

[RedScare]

Yet somehow Midtown struggles to attract the vibrant businesses we see popping up in Washington Ave and beyond.

WOW! What do you say in response to a statement like this? Clearly, the poster has no concept of what Midtown looked like prior to the last 10 years. My guess is he did not even live in Houston prior to 2000, or he would know that Midtown was a barren wasteland of vacant lots and only a few thousand poor residents and some vietnamese restaurants. Land sold in the area for $2 a square foot. Today, it has an estimated population of 25,000, there are canyons of apartment buildings, all built in the last 10 years, restaurants, bars, clubs and retail that never existed prior to the late 90s. Land sells for $50 a foot. This post could not project a bigger lack of knowledge about one's neighborhood.

[TheNiche]

Land sells for $50 a foot.

I beg to differ. Land doesn't sell anymore.

[brian0123]

WOW! What do you say in response to a statement like this? Clearly, the poster has no concept of what Midtown looked like prior to the last 10 years. My guess is he did not even live in Houston prior to 2000, or he would know that Midtown was a barren wasteland of vacant lots and only a few thousand poor residents and some vietnamese restaurants. Land sold in the area for $2 a square foot. Today, it has an estimated population of 25,000, there are canyons of apartment buildings, all built in the last 10 years, restaurants, bars, clubs and retail that never existed prior to the late 90s. Land sells for $50 a foot. This post could not project a bigger lack of knowledge about one's neighborhood.

You took the words right out of my mouth, RedScare.

Also, everyone should remember that even though Washington might be becoming the "IT" place for clubs/bars... Midtown is transitioning to a better phase as well. I've been to MMD meetings, and I've heard a lot of residents complain about disrespectful bar and club patrons. It's not uncommon for people to drive in from the burbs, get drunk at the clubs, be loud and rowdy at night (keeping RESIDENTS awake), pee in a resident's yard (the homeless don't even do that!), throw some trash on the ground, and then head back out to the burbs. With these types urinating along Washington now... Midtown is becoming a more walkable, urban neighborhood for LIVING... not just partying. We still have tons of awesome restaurants, bars, clubs, etc. within walking distance (not to mention the best Specs in town!)... but they are now being frequented by residents that care about the neighborhood.

As for the homeless, we are living in one of the most walkable communities in Houston. Hell, if I was homeless I'd want to live in Midtown too! The fact is that as more development occurs, they just get pushed along to the next place. Camden Travis is the most recent example. Before, it was a run down shopping center w/ rundown buildings nearby. Now, there is a new apartment complex going up that will house a bunch of fellow yuppies like me... AND the neighborhood around it is changing as well. I noticed just yesterday that two rundown buildings on Louisiana that homeless used to camp at are now being totally renovated.

[roadrunner]

I will never understand the constant complaint of Midtown/Washington homeowners that complain about their rowdy neighborhoods. You know what it is. Almost any neighborhood inside the loop are going to be loud, and even have some people the are drunk on the weekends. It's a huge city...people like to party in the city. You want Midtown to be a quiet neighborhood? It won't happen, so I would suggest moving.

It's like people who buy a brand new home in Sugar Land or Katy complaining about the traffic or commute. Some Houstonians have an impossible view of living.

No offense to anyone here, just sharing my thoughts.

[houston_urban_fan]

Clearly, the poster has no concept of what Midtown looked like prior to the last 10 years. My guess is he did not even live in Houston prior to 2000, or he would know that Midtown was a barren wasteland of vacant lots and only a few thousand poor residents and some vietnamese restaurants.

On the contrary I know pre-2000 Midtown very well. I spent countless time both day and night in Midtown eateries and nightspots. Homage, Emo's, SOME, Rich's, Saigon Cafe, etc, ring a bell?

Unfortunately if I had known that land was going for $2 a square foot I would have purchased some land to park my car vs. taking up a bums offer to watch my car for me. (you know, to keep the bad guys away)

Land sells for $50 a foot. This post could not project a bigger lack of knowledge about one's neighborhood.

Do you work for HCAD, because you sound suspiciously like the people appraising Midtown this year. "bigger lack of knowledge about one's neighborhood....." ha! your THAT guy!

RedScare and Brian123, keep in mind that Midtown was once a nice neighborhood for decades before it needed to be revitalized. The city should ask itself what type of resident it prefers. Homeowners or the Homeless? Yeah, it is that simple.

[UpperWestEnder]

Looks like the question that started this thread is a moot point now. They're both urban!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...ro/6502059.html

[RedScare]

RedScare and Brian123, keep in mind that Midtown was once a nice neighborhood for decades before it needed to be revitalized.

Which decades were those?

[diggity]

it's the bar/club cycle which moved from midtown a few yrs ago.

It really doesn't have to be either/or. I live right off of McGowen and can promise you that the bar/club scene is still going strong in Midtown.

[musicman]

It really doesn't have to be either/or. I live right off of McGowen and can promise you that the bar/club scene is still going strong in Midtown.

yes, however the rate of new places opening has shifted to washington.

[brian0123]

yes, however the rate of new places opening has shifted to washington.

Probably because Washington had nothing but a lot of rundown, crap buildings all near each other (like Midtown used to have, but no longer does). In other words, Midtown's core "club" area is matured and built out... and development is now slowly trickling out of the core "club" area to additional areas (i.e. 2901 Fannin currently being built).

Also, what's the deal with the former Pig Stand on Washington? When redevelopment first started on it... it looked like it would be cool. Now that they are further along... that building is soooo fugly (especially with the cheap brown siding on it)! It makes me angry everytime I drive by it and see how they turned a cool building into an eyesore.

[musicman]

Probably because Washington had nothing but a lot of rundown, crap buildings all near each other (like Midtown used to have, but no longer does). In other words, Midtown's core "club" area is matured and built out... and development is now slowly trickling out of the core "club" area to additional areas (i.e. 2901 Fannin currently being built).

the fannin/ san jac area had already opened several clubs which have lost momentum and appear to have closed much to the delight of townhome owners in the area.