marc Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 I think Houston's CBD will be just fine and, in fact, two or three new towers will be planned and built before 2010. That's my guess and (un)educated opinion. We rank pretty well in the "no vacancy" index, so forthcoming will be some more office space. Plus, Houston needs some new and improved towers. Houston is not overbuilt, so that's a plus. Besides, energy is hot, HOT and can I say HOTTER. Stay tuned. The best is yet to come. Trae is right: why so negative???????? I agree. Houston NEEDS a couple or 3 new towers to reshape its already steller and one of the most easily recognizable skylines. I think Houston learned from her over glutting the office market in the early 80s. I think developers are more prudent and cautious now, even though we seem to be in the midst of a mini boom. i know i (as others) moan and groan about the slowness of Houston's highrise growth, but when considering it, i have come to the conclusion, i would rather Houston be prudent and keep the vacancy rates low, then to build massively, and have the buildings sit half empty for another decade or two. I think we all have had enough of that trend. (1985-2000). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 HOTTER. Stay tuned. The best is yet to come. Yes, sir energy is HOT right now! In fact, if you look at an earlier post, Chevron (i.e. Houston) is going to benefit greatly from the oil reserve found in the Gulf. ALSO, there are plans in the works for massive 1000 ft. windmills to be placed off of the coast . I believe they are going to begin with 10 of them, and then increase to a total of 100 over the next twenty years. Most companies backing wind energy all around TX, including the project in the Gulf, are Houston based, including the BIG ONE, Reliant Energy. AND, like it or not, Houston is going to benefit from the contracts given to Houston based companies to rebuild Iraq. So, whether one agrees or disagrees on the motives of the war, Houston still will reap the benefits.....meaning, companies and their subsidiaries expanding, which in turn could mean investing in a supertall highrise sometime soon. (we can always hope....right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tierwestah Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 How could they build a more "signature tower" then the Chevron (Fulbright) Tower? The design was inspired by the company logo... and, well... 'chevrons'.I don't think this is correct. The Chevron Building was built in the early eighties and was formerly the Gulf Tower. The Chevron changeover didn't occur until around ten years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 ^^that design is already in use in phily...we need something that will stand out among the many bland boxes in DT....like the BOA building, that thing is unique and different Yeah, also used in Chicago, although it is hidden (depending on the angle) by the Aon building. I was very upset that we did not get that design. I know the office space market was glutted right when the energy (oil) market went bust......but man, that would have looked sweet among the others that were built. Anyone know how to superimpose the BoSW building into the current skyline? Just for fantasy sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Personally, I preferred the Kohn Pedersen Fox variant of the BOSW tower better than the Murphy Jahn one. perhaps we should give the ol KPF a call regarding that one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkingMan Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 It will be interesting the see the architectural renderings for this new tower, if and when it ever comes to fruition.Houston, in the seventies and eighties, was known for having some of the more advanced architecture of the time. That includes Philip Johnson's Pennzoil Place, an excellent example of late modernism (and I think still the best towers in the city today) and his Williams Tower and Bank of America Plaza, both considered to be key postmodernist works (though pomo doesn't get much respect these days). There are other examples from other designers as well. These buildings were all designed for corporate clients or speculative real-estate developers (like Hines), who were much more open to cutting-edge architecture then: it was proven to increase interest from potential clients, to raise rental rates, to help create a brand or image, and so on. I don't think that is so much the case today in the US. Whenever I hear about cutting-edge architecture, it is usually in the context of museums, performing arts spaces, residential condos, university campuses, and so forth -- not, in the main, developers or the corporate world. Some parts of big business are still open to the idea. Norman Foster recently designed the Hearst HQ in NYC, and that's a media firm. Renzo Piano did the upcoming new HQ for the New York Times, another media firm. Christian de Portzamparc did the Louis Vuitton-Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 The four downtown towers or so that were built in the early part of this decade were good, but hardly inspiring – nothing to push Houston back to its past architectural prominence.Who said our "architectural prominence" ever died? Or was it even there to begin with? When books, people, movies, or t.v. shows talk about architecture, Houston is not mentioned as much as we'd all like to think. Probibly the most mentioned is Bank of America Tower, then Pennzoil Place, and every once in a while the Williams (Transco) Tower is thrown in there. All 3, designed by Philip Johnson. And usually his AT&T Building overshawdows all his other work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I agree. Houston NEEDS a couple or 3 new towers to reshape its already steller and one of the most easily recognizable skylines. I think Houston learned from her over glutting the office market in the early 80s. I think developers are more prudent and cautious now, even though we seem to be in the midst of a mini boom. i know i (as others) moan and groan about the slowness of Houston's highrise growth, but when considering it, i have come to the conclusion, i would rather Houston be prudent and keep the vacancy rates low, then to build massively, and have the buildings sit half empty for another decade or two. I think we all have had enough of that trend. (1985-2000). Speaking strictly as a self-interested citizen of this city, and not necessarily as one seeking to make an efficient allocation of global capital resources, overbuilding is good for this town. Historically, it has most frequently been financed not so much from local investors, but from big out-of-town firms. So when our real estate markets go belly-up, sure there are a fair number of locals who feel the hurt, but most of the hurt is spread around to the shareholders of banks. Meanwhile, we're left with more space than we know what to do with, rental rates drop, and corporate relocations into Houston start to look really good. It has sustained our long-term growth and the non-energy diversification of our employment base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 ^^^^ I understand what you are saying, BUT, say Houston overbuilds between now and say, 2010. We get all excited because she goes through another boom, etc. Say, even a supertall gets built along with the midrises cropping up in the inner loop. But then, the bottom drops out AGAIN, and we are stuck with a virtually stagnant skyline until 2020. Do you really want that? Maybe i am just bitter. I really wanted the Bank of the Southwest Building to be built, but we couldn't because of the market glut. And, it seems, we missed the entire spire phase of skyscraper building in the 90s because of it. Consequently, although i LOVE many of the skyscrapers in Houston, i think they tend to be too flat on the whole. We all know the few exceptions, but see what i mean? Here is one of my nightmares: Houston overbuilds- the bottom drops out- too many empty spaces- a great young architect comes along by 2015- someone cutting edge- (there are many now i know, but go with me here ) so this architect wants to build a signature skyscraper- hmmm, where to put it? where to put it? If what i read is true, then the architect is going to build for the corporation or whatever that will be able to market and afford such a collossus. I would hate to see Houston miss out AGAIN on a world renowned supertall or an avant guarde design because of overbuilding. Make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 ^^^^ I understand what you are saying, BUT, say Houston overbuilds between now and say, 2010. We get all excited because she goes through another boom, etc. Say, even a supertall gets built along with the midrises cropping up in the inner loop. But then, the bottom drops out AGAIN, and we are stuck with a virtually stagnant skyline until 2020. Do you really want that? Maybe i am just bitter. I really wanted the Bank of the Southwest Building to be built, but we couldn't because of the market glut. And, it seems, we missed the entire spire phase of skyscraper building in the 90s because of it. Consequently, although i LOVE many of the skyscrapers in Houston, i think they tend to be too flat on the whole. We all know the few exceptions, but see what i mean? Here is one of my nightmares: Houston overbuilds- the bottom drops out- too many empty spaces- a great young architect comes along by 2015- someone cutting edge- (there are many now i know, but go with me here ) so this architect wants to build a signature skyscraper- hmmm, where to put it? where to put it? If what i read is true, then the architect is going to build for the corporation or whatever that will be able to market and afford such a collossus. I would hate to see Houston miss out AGAIN on a world renowned supertall or an avant guarde design because of overbuilding. Make sense? Yes, I would rather have more buildings now instead of more buildings later. Think of it like a measure of the present value of architecture. IMO we dodged a bullet with respect to 90's architecture. It was underwhelming. Slow and steady is not the correct economic formula for a supertall in Houston. For supertalls, we NEED boomtimes with all the accompanying irrational exuberance, and there simply isn't a good way around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 OK OK, i will concede on the necessity of boomtime in Houston to get the skyscrapers of our dreams built. You made a good case. BUT, being underwhelmed with 90s architecture. Really? I liked some of the things cranked out during the 90s. I tend to be a fan of mixed mediums- like glass mixed with stone facades. I know this is just a matter of asthetics, but what will be interesting to me is if we get a couple of 800 ft + skyscrapers in the next few years, the striking difference in architectural style is going to be blatently obvious. I know that highrises were built in Houston in the 90s (albeit very few) but they are sort of lost in the mix because they are not as tall or taller than the 70-80s collossi. To me i like seeing the transition in DTs of old brownstone with small windows, to larger windows with stone facades, then on to a mixture of stone/glass facades to mostly glass to the present day translucent look so many skyscrapers are getting. It sort of conveys a sense of history. i suppose because i am such a follower of architectural styles, i can see a sort of decade-span gap in DT designs. I don't know....maybe most Houstonians could care less. And i will admit (like i have before) i think i need to get over the scrapped BoSW tower. i am working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonfella Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 And while we are on the subject of CBD ... four new towers (Reliant is the tallest of the four) sprouted from downtown over the past decade. There was Enron's demise. Fortunately, energy has got the Bayou City filling its vacant buildings and there is a need for 2-3 new skyscrapers. I like the 40-story Chevron Tower connected with circular skywalk to the 50-story tower. I hope the next skyscraper will be unique and not boxy. I still marvel at Pennzoil Towers. One of the most unique buildings built anywhere. Only 10 feet separate the towers and visually, sometimes it appears they almost touch. (Y'all are right: we have to get over Bank of the Southwest Tower. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 More square footage off the market in DT:Cheniere moving to Pennzoil PlaceBy KATHERINE FESERCopyright 2006 Houston Chronicle Cheniere Energy signed a lease in Pennzoil Place that will double its downtown headquarters space two blocks from its current location. The Houston-based developer of liquefied natural gas terminals leased 102,206 square feet in one of the two trapezoidal towers at 711 Louisiana.http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/4294202.html_______________________________Looks like demand is very strong and new towers are probable in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Cool. A decent amount of absorption. While the big space grabs are notable and exciting, it's also those handful of smaller, less notable moves that will help bring the vacancy rate down to the magic 12.5% mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 And while we are on the subject of CBD ... four new towers (Reliant is the tallest of the four) sprouted from downtown over the past decade. There was Enron's demise. Fortunately, energy has got the Bayou City filling its vacant buildings and there is a need for 2-3 new skyscrapers. I like the 40-story Chevron Tower connected with circular skywalk to the 50-story tower. I hope the next skyscraper will be unique and not boxy. I still marvel at Pennzoil Towers. One of the most unique buildings built anywhere. Only 10 feet separate the towers and visually, sometimes it appears they almost touch. (Y'all are right: we have to get over Bank of the Southwest Tower. ) 1500 Louisiana was the tallest of the four new downtown towers Who knows... I wonder where the building would go? Perhaps the lot the church (parking lot) put up for sale? Maybe where the Sheraton is? I'm curious... No and no. As the article stated, the building would be on one of two vacant parcels of land acquired by the company when it purchased Allen Center. I don't know exactly where those are, but they are clearly not the church parking lot (because it is owned by the church and was never part of the Allen Center properties) nor is it where the Sheraton is (because that is not a vacant property and also was never part of the Allen Center properties). Interesting to note that Brookfield Properties who bought the old Enron Tower and the two vacant parcels also just recently purchased the Allen Center which includes Continental Centers I and II, 500 Jefferson, KBR Tower, 1500 Louisiana (new Enron), and I, II, and III Allen Center buildings. You left off 1400 Smith, which is now part of Allen Center (Allen Center IV), but Continental Centers I and II, 500 Jefferson, KBR Tower and 1500 Louisiana are not part of Allen Center. Continental Centers I and II, 500 Jefferson, and KBR Tower are all part of Cullen Center, which I believe Brookfield also purchase. 1500 Louisiana is neither part of Allen Center nor Cullen Center, nor was it purchased by Brookfield. It is owned by Chevron. Do people think this is real? CBD vacancy rates were at about 23% in 2005 -- prior to the absorption of all that space by Chevron. I recall that back in the late nineties / early part of this decade, the CBD occupancy rates were extremely high (high nineties) before new office space came online. People I know -- I as well -- were squeezed in real tight downtown. I wonder if Brookfield and the other real estate firms are going to wait that long before they actually start construction on new towers this time around. Hopefully, banks and the developers involved in these kind of projects aren't as spooked about Houston real estate as they used to be, and they will begin construction relatively soon -- before vacancy rates drop into the low single digits. I don't believe CBD vacancy rates got as high as 23% last year (Collier's shows a 2nd quarter 2005 vacancy rate of approx. 20%), but in any event I believe the article stated that they would not proceed until they have a large portion pre-leased. The overall market occupancy is really not directly relevant to a new project. All they need is to have their building leased. For a perfect example of this, look at the Dallas market, with substantial new construction while their market has one of the highest vacancy rates in the country. (Of course the market is indirectly relevant because high vacancies put downward pressure on leasing rates etc etc.) And, the really important factor now might be the availability of large blocks of Class A space. With the recent removal of the huge blocks in 1400 Smith, 1500 Louisiana, and Continental Center I, there probably aren't very many large blocks of space available. Anyone have information on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Trying to find the possible locations... in looking at yahoomaps, the only vacant parcels I see in the immediate vicinity of Allen Center are immediately north of West Dallas St., on either of the street that runs from Allen Parkway from/to Clay and Polk Streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyEvilTwin Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I've read that the lawn in front of Continental Center I was originally intended to be the site of another tower. It's big enough, and it's part of the acquisition of Trizec that Brookfield just completed -- so it would be consistent with the article. It would be a shame to lose that nice patch of green space in downtown, but I don't think it's living up to its full potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 is this some sort of trap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 is this some sort of trap?Thanks semipro, I mean LTAWACS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 It would be a shame to lose that nice patch of green space in downtown, but I don't think it's living up to its full potential.It's a smoker's paradise. Pretty nasty place on a humid day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 It's a smoker's paradise. Pretty nasty place on a humid day.Don't forget about the aggressive homeless bums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Impossible Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Whoa, LTAWACS. Man, you sure bring back memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonfella Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Wedge International Tower was built with the intention of adding a second tower to the existing one. It would be great to get one built there. I like the neon green at the top of this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Whoa, LTAWACS. Man, you sure bring back memories.:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Impossible Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 :cool:Oh, and I meant your screenname. Not what you said. I don't have memories associated with aggressive homeless bums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Oh, and I meant your screenname. Not what you said. I don't have memories associated with aggressive homeless bums.I do. That is why I am wondering why our bungling elected leaders are taking so long to do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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