Hand searches at airports, etc.

[worldlyman]

At San Diego's Lindbergh Airport, going to Florida, I was singled out for a physical pat down. Probably it's because I had an almost freebie ticket.

For security, business or whatever, I don't like being touched by males. I really just DO NOT. ESPECIALLY when I committed no crime.

In the Philippines, going into malls and such, you are subject to pat downs just about every other time. Sometimes the guard will inspect your backpack or open bags and other times, they'll hand pat. At the door, on those moments, there's a line for females and one for males.

I suppose, the reason is that people per se would rather be patted down or publicly fondled by their own gender because the opposite gender might get off on it or some such assumption. And people per se would be uncomfortable with that. BUT then, what if the screener is, like, homosexual?

Nothing against homosexuals, but with that in mind, if we are going to be subject to these indignities...shouldn't we AT LEAST get to choose what gender should pat us down? We pay AN AWFUL lot for our plane tickets...give an economic reason for these screeners and f--king prude airport administrators to have jobs, right?

I remember at the Manila Airport on the way back to the good old US of A...my wife was being patted down by a pretty female screener. And some dude screener (yeah, he's just doing his job...but then you never know...) was feeling me out. Oh, jolly. I remember being sort of pissed at that indignity. At least have that pretty girl feel me out if we have to be delayed and all that, I reflect. And in Manila Airport, you go through THREE DIFFERENT metal detectors as you make your way.

("Terrorism" is something that is used to put fear in us, to control us anyway, making it easier to increase the military budget from something like an already obscene $380 billion per year to about $420 billion per year. It's something the US authorities had created in 1977, going back to the once "freedom fighting" cum "terrorist" mujahidin. And it is that way, having CIA operatives like Michael Meiring set off bombs, only to have him taken out of the Philippines by the FBI QUICKLY after having his stuff explode by accident in his hotel...blaming it, naturally, on "Islamic fanatics." And to think, the Philippine authorities in Mindanao, on their own soil, were NEVER allowed to question Meiring. Hmm.)

[Mark F. Barnes]

Just curious, what is your point to this rant. Is it that you are wanting to express the fact that you have homophobic issues, or a severe insecurity with being touch by the same gender, or is it the fact you think that you paid too much for your tickets to your destination? Are you insecure in some sort of way that it makes you uncomfortable being pat searched by a male? One too many cavity searches or what? I find it odd that you get singled out as much as you do, sounds as though it happens every time you fly, the way you go on about it.

What makes you think whether you fly first class or not makes you have the right to choose who performs security checks on who?

I fly internationally quite often and I have not been pat searched once. Do you fit some kind of a profile that makes you the most likely candidate to get searched? I have had my bags searched and screened electronically every time, that's just the way it is these days. I went as far as forgetting about a Baker Tool pocket knife that a salesman had given me and I threw it in my laptop bag and forgot about it, and it was found by airport security in Jakarta, they asked about it, I told them, they confiscated it and I went on my way. No lengthy search, about a two minute delay for a security supervisor to ask me three questions and I was done and boarded on time.

Was this the Ninoy Aquino International Airport where you were treated so unkindly as you say? I find the security people to always been polite and respectful. Worst I have had there was where a hand held sensor is run over your body, metal detector I am sure. I find the luggage claim to be more of a hassle than anything, the luggage area can be pure mayhem. The baggage carousel is generally jammed. Balikbayans, over-seas Filipino workers, are under special laws governing limits they can bring into the country and will generally have huge cardboard boxes to be lifted off of the carousel. It is a mad house. I guess being a seasoned expat, I just don't look at it as such a vital threat to my well being as you do, perhaps I think not having any security is far the greater evil.

As far as being hasseled where I shop, I guess I missed out on that too. I don't have time to shop much when I am there but I have been to SM Department Store near the Manila City Hall, Robinsons Place and Harrison Plaza in Manila, no problems there. Oh I did go to Robinsons Galleria in Ortigas Center, Mandaluyong City a couple of times, but no problems there either. Where is all the cool spots you find for all this excitement?

Just Curious

[HoustonMidtown]

....a little insecure are we ??

[sevfiv]

At least have that pretty girl feel me out if we have to be delayed and all that, I reflect.

i am sure there are plenty of screeners that think "i wonder how many creepy people are going to like me patting them down..."

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Better stay out of British Airports. I get patted down there almost everytime and that country is like a second home to me im there so often. Its no big deal and i have no problem with it. Takes all of about a minute of my time.

[editor]

At San Diego's Lindbergh Airport, going to Florida, I was singled out for a physical pat down. Probably it's because I had an almost freebie ticket.

For security, business or whatever, I don't like being touched by males. I really just DO NOT. ESPECIALLY when I committed no crime.

In the Philippines, going into malls and such, you are subject to pat downs just about every other time. Sometimes the guard will inspect your backpack or open bags and other times, they'll hand pat. At the door, on those moments, there's a line for females and one for males.

I suppose, the reason is that people per se would rather be patted down or publicly fondled by their own gender because the opposite gender might get off on it or some such assumption. And people per se would be uncomfortable with that. BUT then, what if the screener is, like, homosexual?

Nothing against homosexuals, but with that in mind, if we are going to be subject to these indignities...shouldn't we AT LEAST get to choose what gender should pat us down? We pay AN AWFUL lot for our plane tickets...give an economic reason for these screeners and f--king prude airport administrators to have jobs, right?

I remember at the Manila Airport on the way back to the good old US of A...my wife was being patted down by a pretty female screener. And some dude screener (yeah, he's just doing his job...but then you never know...) was feeling me out. Oh, jolly. I remember being sort of pissed at that indignity. At least have that pretty girl feel me out if we have to be delayed and all that, I reflect. And in Manila Airport, you go through THREE DIFFERENT metal detectors as you make your way.

("Terrorism" is something that is used to put fear in us, to control us anyway, making it easier to increase the military budget from something like an already obscene $380 billion per year to about $420 billion per year. It's something the US authorities had created in 1977, going back to the once "freedom fighting" cum "terrorist" mujahidin. And it is that way, having CIA operatives like Michael Meiring set off bombs, only to have him taken out of the Philippines by the FBI QUICKLY after having his stuff explode by accident in his hotel...blaming it, naturally, on "Islamic fanatics." And to think, the Philippine authorities in Mindanao, on their own soil, were NEVER allowed to question Meiring. Hmm.)

You are incorrect in thinking that "terrorism" is a product of recent history. The United States intelligence agencies started warning of a potential Islamic terrorist threat coming out of the Middle East at least as far back as 1946. It might be earlier, but that's the earliest document I've seen.

As for the gender thing, I don't mind being patted down by men at airport security. But I do prefer a female doctor and a female dentist.

But much like other people who have read your post -- I don't get what your point is.

[torvald]

if i was a screener and a person selected me to pat them, then

that would be awkward. unless these folks are seriously fondling

your bathing suit area then it should be acceptable.

i don't like being patted at airports, mostly because i just don't like

random folks. it's more a crotchety thing vs. a gender thing.

[Montrose1100]

Oh a choice? So If I, a homosexual male, ask for a guy to pat me down, how comfortable would that be for that security guy? I bet they don't feel too good having to pat down men (+women all day). Its security, not a strip club.

How hypocritical. Your worried about how uncomfortable you feel while being patted down by a male, but how uncomfortable for a female to be "chosen" by a male to be patted down.

Again, this isn't sex your paying for, its a plane ticket.

[dalparadise]

Again, this isn't sex your paying for, its a plane ticket.

So, if he pays an extra $50, can he choose his pat-down partner?

[Guest Marty]

Have you ever been given a physical by a football couch! "cough" I rather be just patted down any day.

[Montrose1100]

So, if he pays an extra $50, can he choose his pat-down partner?

Perhaps he should invest in starting his own airport/airline service. Oh wait, they already have that type of service.

[nmainguy]

In two weeks I will again be flying to Paris. I will be frisked by any number of people. I will be pulled aside and be interrogated because I will have bottles full of HIV and oral chemo meds and hypos for insulin. Do I care whether a man or woman searches my crotch?

No.

I do care about a government who has once again been informed and has chosen to ignore one of it's citizen's medical requirements.

Go figure.

[Guest Marty]

In two weeks I will again be flying to Paris. I will be frisked by any number of people. I will be pulled aside and be interrogated because I will have bottles full of HIV and oral chemo meds and hypos for insulin. Do I care whether a man or woman searches my crotch?

No.

I do care about a government who has once again been informed and has chosen to ignore one of it's citizen's medical requirements.

Go figure.

Do they make you throw your meds away in the garbage?

[worldlyman]

You are incorrect in thinking that "terrorism" is a product of recent history. The United States intelligence agencies started warning of a potential Islamic terrorist threat coming out of the Middle East at least as far back as 1946. It might be earlier, but that's the earliest document I've seen.

As for the gender thing, I don't mind being patted down by men at airport security. But I do prefer a female doctor and a female dentist.

But much like other people who have read your post -- I don't get what your point is.

In 1946, pretty much after World War II, the US planners already recognized what kind of world it was going to be. In secret. The State Dept's Policy Planning Study No. 23 was supposed to be secret until it was accidentally released and according to the liberal George Kennan, he said The Haves (meaning the USA and its top imperial allies) would have to take the materials, cheap labor and other such goodies from The Have Nots.

http://www.why-us.org/pps23.shtml

And since oil, the very valuable substance that the powerful men of The Have countries so covet, happens to be mostly under the feet of the "potential Islamic terrorist threats"...it is quite easy to demonize an entire religion in order to make the US public malleable for military action. The people of many Islamic nations are tired of having US military bases on their nations, tired of having the CIA topple their democratically-elected or populist leaders, so when they fight back, then they are "Islamic terrorists."

Let's not forget the Western nations going back to the 1920s started bullying and terrorizing the Arabs because they had oil. Winston Churchill even enjoyed the thought of "dropping gas bombs" to induce a "lively terror" on the Arabs...well before 1946, and September 11, 2001.

I do not believe the propaganda that the Muslims want to "take away our freedoms." If we could temper the appetites of Big Oil, and get our bases out from most of the world...I really believe that "Islamic terrorism" would be effectively decreased. After all, it is the USA that has 397 military bases all over the world, uses the CIA or the Pentagon to invade other nations at will. It's used military force since 1846 to invade other nations...well before the existence of a "Soviet threat" cum "Islamic terrorism" pretext. People regardless of religion are "terrorists" because they fight back?

-----------------------

The Physical Search Thing.

And no, I am not implying that airports are strip clubs but hey, if THE AIRPORT AUTHORITY IS IMPOSING A PHYSICAL SEARCH UPON US mostly innocent travellers, putting their hands on us, then why should not the customer choose the gender?

Why should we care if the screeners are uncomfortable if we are able to choose? I mean, they're getting paid. We are the ones paying.

It is their idea, not ours. Not mine, for sure. And IF I HAVE TO BE SUBJECT TO FONDLING...what is so wrong with me preferring a female to do it? Like I said, especially if I committed NO CRIME?

Shouldn't my comfort, as a customer, be taken into account? What is so difficult about two lines, female screener and male screener...take your pick?

What is it about this "rant" of mine that has some of you pissy? This is the brain-fart side of the forum, yes?

I might have to admit, that I may be a bit on the voyeuristic side. I'm kinda on the good-looking side (I think) and I take care of my physique...and am kinda proud of it. But I'd rather NOT BE patted or fondled by strangers, male or female. But if I have my druthers, I'd very much like a female to do it.

I get really antsy and irritated when a guy does it. Really don't like male hands on me. Period. As I stated, for whatever reason and when I committed no crime.

Metal detectors and x-rays. That's basically what we need. We don't need to be touched by strangers when we are not criminals per se.

To think that that modern and GENUINE terrorists (not the ones paid or formed by the CIA, ISI and such) would need to continue messing with airlines, especially with the super security measures...that's beyond me.

That shampoo scare...that's all BS.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Aug06/Petras25.htm

Anyone that does a little research should find out that in the context of flying on an airline, it takes a lot of time and extreme caution to do that. When can a mouthwash and Dr. Pepper suicide bomber sit in an airline toilet for hours? That's just the authorities just scaring the sheeple.

And now they allow us to take our liquids on board again.? Just like the BS "red", "green", "orange" alerts. On and off, we are like push buttons easily punched into fear.

Funny, how there is surveillance all over America...we get footage of people being kidnapped or robbed on surveillance cams, displayed on the likes of FOX, CBS, CNN News and such...yet the most presumably surveilled building ever, supposedly armed with a missile battery...yet there is no real footage of what hit the Pentagon for FOX and the other corporate propaganda stations to show? Well, there was stuff recorded by a gas station and hotel...but the FBI took those away and never saw fit to have them aired. Oh, well. Just those inconvenient questions.

[worldlyman]

Just curious, what is your point to this rant. Is it that you are wanting to express the fact that you have homophobic issues, or a severe insecurity with being touch by the same gender, or is it the fact you think that you paid too much for your tickets to your destination? Are you insecure in some sort of way that it makes you uncomfortable being pat searched by a male? One too many cavity searches or what? I find it odd that you get singled out as much as you do, sounds as though it happens every time you fly, the way you go on about it.

What makes you think whether you fly first class or not makes you have the right to choose who performs security checks on who?

I fly internationally quite often and I have not been pat searched once. Do you fit some kind of a profile that makes you the most likely candidate to get searched? I have had my bags searched and screened electronically every time, that's just the way it is these days. I went as far as forgetting about a Baker Tool pocket knife that a salesman had given me and I threw it in my laptop bag and forgot about it, and it was found by airport security in Jakarta, they asked about it, I told them, they confiscated it and I went on my way. No lengthy search, about a two minute delay for a security supervisor to ask me three questions and I was done and boarded on time.

Was this the Ninoy Aquino International Airport where you were treated so unkindly as you say? I find the security people to always been polite and respectful. Worst I have had there was where a hand held sensor is run over your body, metal detector I am sure. I find the luggage claim to be more of a hassle than anything, the luggage area can be pure mayhem. The baggage carousel is generally jammed. Balikbayans, over-seas Filipino workers, are under special laws governing limits they can bring into the country and will generally have huge cardboard boxes to be lifted off of the carousel. It is a mad house. I guess being a seasoned expat, I just don't look at it as such a vital threat to my well being as you do, perhaps I think not having any security is far the greater evil.

As far as being hasseled where I shop, I guess I missed out on that too. I don't have time to shop much when I am there but I have been to SM Department Store near the Manila City Hall, Robinsons Place and Harrison Plaza in Manila, no problems there. Oh I did go to Robinsons Galleria in Ortigas Center, Mandaluyong City a couple of times, but no problems there either. Where is all the cool spots you find for all this excitement?

Just Curious

When did you last travel to the Philippines? In 2006, they hand-pat and fondle EVERYBODY at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport as he or she makes through the place. I do not fit a profile. I've done some international travelling myself, from London to Tokyo, Amsterdam to Manila, nothing about me that's a criminal or "terrorist." I've been hand-patted in San Diego's airport a couple times when I lived in that city but like I said, I've had some discount tickets, one to Florida was given to me by a former airline pilot hence the hand searches. So, no I don't fit a profile.

In Tokyo, when I set off the alarm because of my hiking boots, now those people at Narita were very polite compared to the staff in Manila per se. There was no hand pat because of that. I'm of Filipino descent and Pinoy staff can be quite sarcastic at their airport. My wife's a born and bred Filipina and SHE was getting PO'd at the staff.

Like I said, while we would prefer not to be fondled by airport personnel, IF we MUST BE subject to that indignity...well what is so wrong if we choose the gender?

Haven't you seen some news when women got terribly upset being fondled by airport personnel of the same gender? Airport personnel fondling the breasts of middle-aged women. It is an indignity. But if it is forcibly bestowed upon us, then why not let us choose the gender?

And what "right" do we or I have? Well, we (I) are the paying customers, are we not? That's a pretty understood concept, "the customer is always right". But these days, despite the high fares that we pay, I guess we flyers must be the exception then.

And when did I say I was homophobic? But I don't like male hands on me period. It's not out of insecurity or some such thing. Some people don't like dogs greeting them, some people don't like other people cussing, some people don't like other people of a certain color or religion, some people don't like to be patted on the shoulder for whatever reason

...I just don't like males touching me per se! A pat on the back or hug from a buddy is one thing...but a strange male's hand going down my thighs and groin and other parts for any reason? Hell NO!

I'm not saying I get hassled in general in the Philippines, but they do conduct security checks at the SMs, Gaesanos, Ayalas and most other malls whether in Luzon or Cebu or Mindanao. According to my personal peeve, I just get tired of those male hands. Especially when the Philippine government had its covert hand in creating "terrorists" like the Aby Sayaf.

One time in one of the lines at the new Asia City Mall, hot new point in Manila, I actually strode through the right side of the checkpoint where the female screener was. She quickly frisked me. After having male hands on me the better part of a few days there before entering malls, I took my liberties.

[worldlyman]

Oh a choice? So If I, a homosexual male, ask for a guy to pat me down, how comfortable would that be for that security guy? I bet they don't feel too good having to pat down men (+women all day). Its security, not a strip club.

How hypocritical. Your worried about how uncomfortable you feel while being patted down by a male, but how uncomfortable for a female to be "chosen" by a male to be patted down.

Again, this isn't sex your paying for, its a plane ticket.

What I'm saying is that the prescribed M/M and F/F thing is to avoid discomfort from the opposite gender, as assumed by orthodox lifeview and airport administrators. You know, just as an example, a female passenger may not really like a male screener to pat her down because she might be afraid that he'd get himself off. So if that is the presumption, then what if the female screener is homosexual? If the concern is the hypothetical "getting off" on the part of a screener, that's interesting, is it not?

There have been women in the news getting really mad with female screeners groping their breasts. Otherwise, other female screeners do not touch the breasts of female passengers. This is not to say that a female screener who gropes a female passenger's breasts is a lesbian.

How about that? I've been a passenger in San Diego's Lindbergh Airport a few times and the fondling thing is quite common there and I've observed.

This is a valid and certainly not an anti-homosexual point. It is something to think about. Let us not get too sensitive here.

If you feel comfortable with a male screener feeling you out at a checkpoint or whatever, hey, why not? You should have the right to choose. You paid for your ticket! He's getting paid, so who cares if he's uncomfortable? His damn administrative ups are making the process, not him. But you ARE a customer who should have rights! Just like me.

If I feel more comfortable with a female screener fondling my thighs and groin, then hey, why not? I'm a customer who paid for my ticket. If I am to be subjected to this indignity, well, let me choose my druthers and the gender!

Both male and female can do the security or handsearch job equally, right? It's just a matter for the customer to feel what gender she or he is more comfortable with doing the process.

Dang. What is so "homophobic" about that as some poster here insinuates about me?

I'm not suggesting airports are stripclubs but as a customer, some aspects of a rather undignified process could be mitigated in OUR favor.

[HeightsGuy]

Screeners can and do get fired for overzealos "groping". If it happens to you report it, there are cameras in the area that record everything, if they went too far it will show up on the tape. Otherwise, it's a pretty small price to pay imo.

If you think this is undignified, wait til the next generation of x-ray machines are installed. Those things take a very very detailed picture of the human body.

[ssullivan]

Have you ever been given a physical by a football couch! "cough" I rather be just patted down any day.

Your sofa plays football? And pats you down? Where did you find furniture that could do that?

I've only been patted down once in an airport in the last two years, and hardly a week goes by that I don't go through an airport security checkpoint at least twice. The only time I've been patted down was two weeks ago flying out of Paris, where every passenger was being searched in that manner as he/she headed down the jetway to the aircraft. And yes, while I'm gay, and the guy who patted me down was attractive, there was nothing sexual about it. I just wanted to get through the security check and get on the plane, he just wanted to get his job done so he could go home at the end of the day. Nobody cared, and nobody was getting fondled or getting off on the experience.

And regardless of my orientation, I'm more comfortable with another guy doing that search.