713 To 214 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Let's see, here. . .1st you make the following statement in your post: In the end, what we found was not the NBA being rigged, but basketball fans (outside of Dallas) being unimpressed with big-mouthed billionaires.Then, I ask the following reasonable question in response to your statement:I'm interetsted to know what source(s) you would cite what source(s) you would cite, or which "basketball fans (outside of Dallas)" you polled which "basketball fans (outside of Dallas)" you polled to come to that determination. Please scroll to the bottom of this page to obtain actual comments from actual fans (outside of Dallas) who might disagree with your statement. As a matter of fact, read the entire page for more insight. In the same post, I concede that the Mavericks' free throw shooting is what got them into trouble. Additionally, I denounced any assertion that Mark Cuban's criticisms of NBA officiating, warranted any retaliation in the form of bogu foul calling. I think the Mavericks should have done a better job of making free throws down the stretch. However, there's no denying that the refs played an uneccessary role in the Mavs' demise. . .and it's not an excuse for them to make bougus calls against the Mavericks in retalitation for Mark Cuban's criticisms of NBA officiating. Mr. Stern, NBA Owners, players, and fans should expect more than that.. . .then you respond with:Come on, dude! Didn't you watch the news? We just got flooded here on Monday. Now, all of the Dallas crying about the refs is going to flood us again.PS - Never cry about officiating to Houston fans. We tried it in the 70s...didn't work. Pittsburgh still went to the Super Bowl. Get real! I pointed you in the direction of an ESPN editorial writer who not only predicted the outcome based upon officiating, but he also shared a sample of a number of emails, from people all around the country (I noticed none were from Houston), who agreed with thim regarding the calls that Wade received. Beleive it or not, if/when you can step away from your monitor and venture outside of the realm of HAIF, you will find that reasonable people can admit that the Mavericks have themselves to blame for their loss, but the officials were making questionable/bogus calls that dictated the outcome of some games, as well. The two, IMHO, aren't mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Get real! I pointed you in the direction of an ESPN editorial writer who not only predicted the outcome based upon officiating, but he also shared a sample of a number of emails, from people all around the country (I noticed none were from Houston), who agreed with thim regarding the calls that Wade received. Beleive it or not, if/when you can step away from your monitor and venture outside of the realm of HAIF, you will find that reasonable people can admit that the Mavericks have themselves to blame for their loss, but the officials were making questionable/bogus calls that dictated the outcome of some games, as well. The two, IMHO, aren't mutually exclusive. You're right. I apologize. The Mavs would have won the whole thing if not for the refs. How could I not see that? Must be my anti-Dallas bias. Tell you what. To make it up to you, all of us Houstonians here at HAIF will chip in and make a "Would've been NBA Champs, but for the refs" trophy just for you. You guys can have your parade. Everyone will be happy. Feel better, now? Man, there is nothing better than watching sports fans debate sports outcomes as fact. It's the greatest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Dude. Just do a Google News search. There are essay's from Coast to Coast laughing at Dallas, their pre-mature parade planning, and the cry baby owner.Just do it.I knew you wouldn't be able to resist the opportunity. . .you're so predictable.Read this post very carefully! I know people are laughing at the Dallas City Representatives, Dallas Police Officials, and the Dallas Mavericks organization for planning a victory parade. . too soon. I agree that they should be criticized (at least for making their plans public). But you are smart enough to know that you can't blame every citizen of Dallas for the mistakes of a few.Whether Mark Cuban is a "cry baby owner" is disputable. I tend to look at him as a man with an investment in a business, and a man who is not afraid to speak up when he thinks his business is being treated unfairly. Additionally, he'll actually try to do something about whatever problem he perceives is affecting his business. In this case, it's NBA officiating. . .and if you follow NBA basketball, you know that many of Cuban's recommendations to the league have been implemented. In my mind, that indicates that he's not just "crying" over something trivial, but rather, his complaints have merit. He might not go about voicing his complaints the way you want him to. You might not like the fact that he sits in the stands, instead of the luxury suite. . .but that's Cuban's MO. . .his mantra is "I am the ultimate fan!!" It has worked for him so far! Ticket sales are outstanding, the Mavericks reached the finals, 6 years after his purchase of the team, and fan support couldn't be higher. Throw in his track record of becoming a self made billionaire, and I think you have no room, whatesoever, to question how Cuban voices his displeasure with NBA officiatingNow, would you care to comment on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProHouston Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Dude, just accept other people's opinions. We don't all have to love Cuban or, for that matter, Jerry Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 My opinion doesn't quite conform to Bill Simmons'. Mine is more akin to that of Dallas Morning News columnists.It seems I didn't have to leave Dallas city limits to find someone who agrees with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Dude, just accept other people's opinions. Dude, you go first. . .and why would you drag Jerry Jones into this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProHouston Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Dude, you go first. . .and why would you drag Jerry Jones into this? Because, being from Dallas, you probably think he's a god too. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantanamo Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 People in Dallas don't like Jerry. He's a big time suburban developer. People like Cuban, Tom Hicks and the Perots, on the other hand, seem to have a love for Dallas proper and have made huge investments in the city. Jerry, ran to Arlington and builds whatever he can as far out as he can. He even lives right outside the Dallas border in Highland Park. We also think he's not the owner Cuban is. Jerry like to interfere. Cuban just likes to be an overzealous fan. He goes to bat for his team and THE LEAGUE repeatedly. He's right. Being quiet is to allow a product that could be making lots of money and gaining popularity continue to fail and go downhillAs for how to look at the series, say what you want. Bill Simmons wrote his articles before the finals were over and was dead on. Take that how you want, but its scary. Normally, predictions and pre-analysis are based on on-the-court play, not on how the series is called. As you can see, he did his homework too. I gurantee you that if it aint football, in the DMN, its just an opinion. Simmons made a hypothesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I think it all ballooned and took on a life of its own, and I think Mark Cuban was partly responsible. NBA officiating has been bad for a while now but the problem is that people more notice it when it affects their team negatively.The truth is that Nowitski was the beneficiary of some bogus calls and non-calls, and not just in the Heat series. It sucks all around. I won't debate if the calls even out because I'm of the opinion they almost never do (despite the cliche). But I can understand Mavs fans' frustrations: they saw calls that didn't look good (although, technically, the foul call in Game 5 at the end of the game was actually legit--in fact, the Heat would've had more room to complain had a foul not been called given that Devin Harris was clearly grabbing Dwayne Wade's arm on his drive) but at the same time, I thought Jason Terry's jersey was grabbed on Dallas' last shot attempt in Game 6. No call.Anyway, Mark Cuban, more than anyone, seems to have turned a lot of people's sympathy about bad officiating to a feeling of perpetual whininess on the part of Mavericks fans and brass--and probably to an unfair degree. But Cuban, IMO, needs to grow up a little as an owner. His personal crusade against Stern would not just turn the league office against, but other owners as well.The parade debacle was just an error on the city's part. They meant well, just didn't think the timing through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 While carping incessantly about Dwyane Wade's 250 free throws, I never hear mention of Dirk Nowitzski's 229 free throws. They both played 23 games in the playoffs, so Wade shot 1 more free throw per game. And Dirk is not exactly a mash it up in the middle guy. He is a fall away jumper and 3 point shooting 7 footer, versus Wade's driving the lane mentality.The fact is, the Mavericks lost 4 games. If it makes the loss easier to take by blaming the officiating, so be it. But, to expect the rest of us to respect you for it is wishful thinking.For a case study on how to be respected as a fan, see Edmonton, Alberta. Ranked 14 out of 16 teams, their fans never gave up, and were among the loudest of any arena in any sport. They were so fervent in their support, that I found myself rooting for them against my former hometown, Raleigh, NC. After losing Game 7 of the Stanley Cup, there were no complaints.All sports fans could learn from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 He's ritzy, he's glitzy and his behavior's a little schizophrenzy! He's Cuban, The Mythic! Eh-oh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 He's ritzy, he's glitzy and his behavior's a little schizophrenzy!He's Cuban, The Mythic! Eh-oh! I'm striking another one up fer ya Coog. Been gone for a few days and everyones stolen my smart ass ideas. Anyway, Dallas lost because they got man handeld. Miami turned what Dallas did to Shaq (double and triple teamed) in the first two games, over on Dirk, which gave him very few good looks at the basket. Miami was far more aggressive and wanted it a lot more than did Dallas. I'm not going to step into the Cuban debate as EVERYBODY knows this guys a sniveling little sh#t. 713, you might try and step off planet Dallas every once in a while, reality is not that bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 He looks so tough in his $200 Diesel jeans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Hmmm. It seems that not all of ESPN's columnists agree with Bill Simmons.Cuban Whistle Crisis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 He's ritzy, he's glitzy and his behavior's a little schizophrenzy!He's Cuban, The Mythic! Eh-oh! They should just Chloroform his @$$ during halftime, so they can concentrate on the game and not his antics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Hmmm. It seems that not all of ESPN's columnists agree with Bill Simmons.Cuban Whistle Crisis"Cuban whistle crisis". I love it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Proud to say I didn't watch a single minute of the crapfest known as the NBA.The College Baseball World Series in Omaha and watching replays of the World Cup are more to my liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Proud to say I didn't watch a single minute of the crapfest known as the NBA.The College Baseball World Series in Omaha and watching replays of the World Cup are more to my liking.And the church said, Amen!The NBA for me was simply something to do during nighttime TV's usual "worse than the NBA" crapfest. The College World series is much more to my liking as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalparadise Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Proud to say I didn't watch a single minute of the crapfest known as the NBA.The College Baseball World Series in Omaha and watching replays of the World Cup are more to my liking.Absolutely. It's sad, too. The NBA used to be an entertaining sports diversion. Bird, Majic, MJ, Hakeem, Malone + Stockton -- they were all guys who were fun to watch and the game was exciting. Now, it's about intimidation and Gs, with crappy play, no team loyalty among players and lame-asses like Cuban as poster children. I haven't watched or attended a single minute of NBA basketball in two seasons. Over the three seasons prior to that I watched a couple of games per season and attended maybe one.Prior to that, I had been both a Rockets and Mavericks (when I lived in Dallas) regular -- 15-20 games per season each -- even when both weren't doing very well.Sad. I miss the old NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
713 To 214 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Hmmm. It seems that not all of ESPN's columnists agree with Bill Simmons.Cuban Whistle CrisisI knew your legal research skills would finally pay off for you in this thread. Good job, counselor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProHouston Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I think the NBA is great. It hasn't been better since the 90's. No drug problems, no hold outs, international superstars, fast paced, genuine athleticism, etc. I think it's one of the best games out there, and that's from a lifelong Rockets fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Proud to say I didn't watch a single minute of the crapfest known as the NBA.The College Baseball World Series in Omaha and watching replays of the World Cup are more to my liking. Yea, I was a little upset that USA lost to Ghana, GHANA of all people ! Maybe next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Ghana Punch!Guyana Punch us in the face! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Ghana Punch!Guyana Punch us in the face!Yep, must have been the bad refereeing. Too many yellow cards. Cuban is gonna protest that loss also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I knew your legal research skills would finally pay off for you in this thread. Good job, counselor! I like that. Nice shot, 713/214. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I knew your legal research skills would finally pay off for you in this thread. Good job, counselor!Not to take anything away from Redscare's legal research skills, but it really wasn't very difficult to find columns criticizing Cuban. They were indeed all over the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krix Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Yea, I was a little upset that USA lost to Ghana, GHANA of all people ! Maybe next time. But you know in 2002, the defending world champion (and Euro champion to boot), France, lost against Senegal, they didn't score ONE goal during round one. So it can happen. And we need at least one African team in round two . I was watching this silly conspiracy movie, and the villain was talking to his mentor at the Vatican, the evil cardinal, and they were saying while watching a monk kicking a ball: - the Baptists went to America when the English king allowed ball games on Sundays - well this is why the Americans are so bad and the English are so good at soccer... I don't know if that was really a factor (I mean I know that some left England because they found the English authorities too lenient in matters of the faith, but not sure which was which) but at least it's a funny joke, no BTW: Germany is leading 2-0 against Sweden, who are one man down!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonfella Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Official NBA finals thread. Except the threads are about the friggin soccer world cup. Am I missing something here? Or is it that Mark Cuban's chokers are less entertaining than the Belgium Burpers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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