'Big D' offers little help

[JasonDFW]

So who IS in charge of The Metroplex?

There is nobody specifically in charge of the metroplex, which is why some people were saying they were waiting for the state to come in and discuss how exactly the people were going to be spread around the metroplex.

Jason

[MidtownCoog]

Considering Dallas and Ft. Worth can't even agree on an airport, I hope Houston never has to evacuate.

[JasonDFW]

Why did your Mayor refuse the Chronicle's request. It looks like the Chronicle tried to interview the principles...wonder why principle #1 dodged?

I don't know how to say that without sounding like I am defending her. I don't know her real reason for doing that. I suspect she felt she had more important things to do at the time. I'm betting, that even a person who lacks decent public skills like Miller, would have changed her tune quickly if something were pushing the issue like a tropical storm making its way past the keys. She could have lied and said they were working hard on trying to find more space and she could have stroked Houston's ego at the same time. But she didn't. I bet people here would have been much happier if they'd heard that but the end result would be the same. It sounds though, that meetings with the state are in order and questions from a Houston paper are the last thing she appears to be worried about. I personally have something else I'd rather her stay working on right now, so that doesn't upset me. I'm more of a results guy though. I care more about the 40,000 people than the city of Houston's opinion of Dallas and their crazy mayor.

Jason

Considering Dallas and Ft. Worth can't even agree on an airport, I hope Houston never has to evacuate.

Up until now, Dallas and Fort Worth have agreed on the vast majority of the items related to the airport. The trouble comes in when the federal government steps in and tells Dallas they can't shut down an airport to commercial traffic then Dallas gets in trouble with Fort Worth. There is a suprising amount of agreement (more than I'd like) between much of the Dallas government and Fort Worth up until now. Angela Hunt is a good example of this.

The major battle, is between AA (in Fort Worth) and Southwest (in Dallas).

Jason

P.S. I think you'll have bigger things to worry about in an evacuation than Dallas-Fort Worth. Just the other day people couldn't agree whether there would be free gas or not.

[rantanamo]

Why this whole thing is ridiculous:

There is nobody specifically in charge of the metroplex, which is why some people were saying they were waiting for the state to come in and discuss how exactly the people were going to be spread around the metroplex.

and yes, this is a bash fest.

[Gary]

Speak for yourself Gary. It's not very terribly complex once you get past the basic details of what the state actually wants, and that the Chron didn't interview the right people to get a good grasp of the situation. I have not defended Dallas on everything negative presented, in fact I often go the other way on these forums and elsewhere. I agree with much of what soifan said, and some of the things that people like Redscare says, so I am not going to try to debate them on it and "defend her without remorse" as you claim. This is something you could never do which has been proven from your post history. This post is a little better than your typical Dallas one as it actually has sentences in it. Bravo for that, but you're really more in the catagory of Mister X than someone that is actually interested in discussing or debating something.

Jason

P.S. I guess you haven't been to Dallas in a long time, or just don't get around most of the city, because the vast majority of the "Country Club" folks have long since left the city of Dallas for Highland Park, University Park, Plano, Frisco, Coppell, Addison, Southlake, Colleyville etc...

Jason, your proving my point by your intellectualy superior response. What's there to debate? This isn't a complex issue.The facts are the facts and have been well analized by Red, Coog etc, so why would I continue?

By the way, I don't come on this board to act as if I have an answer to all of the threads posed, rather I come here to learn from those that frequent the forum. Maybe you should consider doing the same.

Since I'm a shallow non intellectual who never has anything to say worthy of your attention, I'll leave you alone.

[Mister X]

I don't see what there is to debate here. The article is quite clear. For whatever reasons that sound the most palatable, Dallas has no interest in trying to shelter their fair share of people in an emergency. It is as simple as that. It sounds to me that not only is Dallas not able to handle an emergency like this today, but is also making it clear that it has no intention of ever even TRYING to. Their priorities are somewhere else.

I admit it. I don't care for Dallas at all. Sue me. I lived in north Dallas for 8 years - didn't think much of it (people or places) and never understood the whole superior attitute thing at all.

Now I live SF and as far as general attitude and pomposity goes, the people in SF make Dallas look like Houston during Katrina - on a daily basis! The only difference is when it comes to actual city and bay area assets, they can back up the big talk, not counting all the pointless and annoying politically correct crap going on the streets, there are some actual interesting things to see and do here. SF delivers most of what it promises, Dallas is all about trying to con people into believing in myths or something, like Jason is doing on this forum.

I suppose if you live in Dallas long enough, you start to believe in the myth. It must be like some form of brain washing. If everyone goes around calling themselves beautiful and classy long enough, then eventually they will start believing it - when in reality, the rest of the world is laughing at them behind their backs. Many people in Dallas (especially the ones who frequent this Houston Architecture forum) don't realize that the myths end at the Dallas city limits. Or at very least, 50 miles out. Talk will get you just so far, eventually you have to deliver.

I respect Houston because, despite whatever assets or shortcomings, you don't hear a lot of BS. Just action and results. It was no surprise to me that Houston, within such a short time period, had welcomed thousands of people who had just lost everything they had in the world. Good or bad, Houston lets the action speak for itself. No excuses or appologies.

[JasonDFW]

By the way, I don't come on this board to act as if I have an answer to all of the threads posed, rather I come here to learn from those that frequent the forum. Maybe you should consider doing the same.

Since I'm a shallow non intellectual who never has anything to say worthy of your attention, I'll leave you alone.

If you want to believe you come here for that, you can prove that with your future actions rather than these words. I never said you didn't have things to say that were worthy of my attention. When you post text (instead of text-less posts with smileys trying to bash/provoke somebody) I listen. In fact I believe I have previously commented on how nice one of your posts was, because it had actual text.

Jason

Now I live SF and as far as general attitude and pomposity goes, the people in SF make Dallas look like Houston during Katrina - on a daily basis! The only difference is when it comes to actual city and bay area assets, they can back up the big talk, not counting all the pointless and annoying politically correct crap going on the streets, there are some actual interesting things to see and do here. SF delivers most of what it promises, Dallas is all about trying to con people into believing in myths or something, like Jason is doing on this forum.

Ok, Mister X, so the people of San Francisco not only think they are great, but demonstrate it regularly. That's great, you must be proud to be part of such a city. And exactly what myths am I trying to force on people? That Dallas people are beautiful???

Jason

[Gary]

If you want to believe you come here for that, you can prove that with your future actions rather than these words. I never said you didn't have things to say that were worthy of my attention. When you post text (instead of text-less posts with smileys trying to bash/provoke somebody) I listen. In fact I believe I have previously commented on how nice one of your posts was, because it had actual text.

Jason

1.) Don't assume you know my motives for coming on this forum, because you don't

2.) you made not have said I had nothing of value to say, but you deffinately insinuated it.

3.) If I decide to make a smart ass comment I'm in good company with quite a few on this board. I do it because I think there are things said sometimes that warrant one.

4.) As far as using Smilies, I don't get it. I haven't used one in this thread.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[JasonDFW]

1.) Don't assume you know my motives for coming on this forum, because you don't

2.) you made not have said I had nothing of value to say, but you deffinately insinuated it.

3.) If I decide to make a smart ass comment I'm in good company with quite a few on this board. I do it because I think there are things said sometimes that warrant one.

4.) As far as using Smilies, I don't get it. I haven't used one in this thread.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

1) I'll definitely continue to assume from your posts, thank you.

2) I never said or insinuated your had nothing of value to say. I said you were not here for a discussion or debate. I also said your posts that are comprised entirely of icons intended to provoke/bash instead of actual text have no value.

3) That's your prerogative, but it will all go back to number 1 despite your insistence that it doesn't. When that's the crux of your discussion, it says a lot.

4) Yes, and I already specifically stated that and how it was an improvement.

Jason

[nmainguy]

1) I'll definitely continue to assume from your posts, thank you.

2) I never said or insinuated your had nothing of value to say. I said you were not here for a discussion or debate. I also said your posts that are comprised entirely of icons intended to provoke/bash instead of actual text have no value.

3) That's your prerogative, but it will all go back to number 1 despite your insistence that it doesn't. When that's the crux of your discussion, it says a lot.

4) Yes, and I already specifically stated that and how it was an improvement.

Jason

God, Jason...Gary asked if you could agree to disagree but you can't get the monkey off your back. Move on...seems everyone else has.

[Gary]

1) I'll definitely continue to assume from your posts, thank you.

2) I never said or insinuated your had nothing of value to say. I said you were not here for a discussion or debate. I also said your posts that are comprised entirely of icons intended to provoke/bash instead of actual text have no value.

3) That's your prerogative, but it will all go back to number 1 despite your insistence that it doesn't. When that's the crux of your discussion, it says a lot.

4) Yes, and I already specifically stated that and how it was an improvement.

Jason

You got me Jason, you've figured me out. How can I argue any further? Tell me , do you know a good palm reader?

Now, you make a smart ass comment back, and then tell me how disingenuous I am.

Now to be serious, I don't join in on many debates because there are those here that do a much better job than I.

[JasonDFW]

God, Jason...Gary asked if you could agree to disagree but you can't get the monkey off your back. Move on...seems everyone else has.

If it were something debatable, such as if he said:

For whatever reasons that sound the most palatable, Dallas has no interest in trying to shelter their fair share of people in an emergency.

as Mister X did, I would have dropped it. In fact I don't intend to debate Mister X on that. Because in that case it is an opinion, where it is easy to disagree. When Gary says I insinuated something and I know for a fact he is wrong, then no I can't agree to disagree.

Jason

[TxDave]

This is one of those forums that I hate to respond to, but feel I need to.

The Houston vs. Dallas thing has gotten way out of hand. If/when there is a hurricane that hits the Texas Gulf Coast, the DFW area will absorb anyone from the Houston area as necessary. We will take care of our brothers/sisters/"kin" that need help in any emergency.

The real issue is that, based on evacuation plans, the DFW area is expected to take in 40,000 evacuees who have no personal transportation (i.e. no car or no feasible way to evacuate on their own).

The "Dallas Bashing" in this thread has (somewhat appropriately) resulted from the response of some voices within the City of Dallas expressing their fear about being able to handle that many people.

The real issue and confusion in this thread results from the misconception that everythin thing in the DFW metroplex is run by the city of Dallas. It is not!

The CITY of Dallas only represents only about 20% of the metroplex population, but is expected to be the municipal face of the region whenever any thing happens here (evacuation, homeless, etc.).

It is not wrong for the city of Dallas to question how the 40,000 evacuees will be distributed across the Metroplex. The neighboring cities need to carry their weight too! (most of the Dallas suburbs are not quaint villages, but rather large cities in their own right).

If a major hurricane hits Houston, we will take good care of you! We just need to figure out how we will share the costs with our many suburban cities!

[2112]

With all this Dallas versus metroplex issue being tossed around here, what happend to the "Dallas is essentially all the cities in the metroplex"? I thought all was one, and that that is why "Dallas" is the largest "city" in Texas? Boy, it sure seems like a whole bunch of distinct cities here with little cohesiveness between them.

I just love how "Dallas" separates themselves from the other cities in the metroplex when things dont live up to thier image, but then claims them all when comparing itself to other U.S. cities to make themselve seem like the all mighty "New York" of Texas. (Or whatever they think they are.) Sorry. I'm just pointing it out the truth here.

This is one of those forums that I hate to respond to, but feel I need to.

The Houston vs. Dallas thing has gotten way out of hand. If/when there is a hurricane that hits the Texas Gulf Coast, the DFW area will absorb anyone from the Houston area as necessary. We will take care of our brothers/sisters/"kin" that need help in any emergency.

The real issue is that, based on evacuation plans, the DFW area is expected to take in 40,000 evacuees who have no personal transportation (i.e. no car or no feasible way to evacuate on their own).

The "Dallas Bashing" in this thread has (somewhat appropriately) resulted from the response of some voices within the City of Dallas expressing their fear about being able to handle that many people.

The real issue and confusion in this thread results from the misconception that everythin thing in the DFW metroplex is run by the city of Dallas. It is not!

The CITY of Dallas only represents only about 20% of the metroplex population, but is expected to be the municipal face of the region whenever any thing happens here (evacuation, homeless, etc.).

It is not wrong for the city of Dallas to question how the 40,000 evacuees will be distributed across the Metroplex. The neighboring cities need to carry their weight too! (most of the Dallas suburbs are not quaint villages, but rather large cities in their own right).

If a major hurricane hits Houston, we will take good care of you! We just need to figure out how we will share the costs with our many suburban cities!

I agree with you TxDave. So dont take my previous post as a personal thing. It is, however, aimed at some dallassites out there who just cant stop proclaiming thier supperiority, sophistication, and all things great about Dallas. I wont mention names (cough-grunt-Aceplace-cough-Aceplace-cough-hack). It just gets old. It's like constantly listening to some snooty arrogant type constantly telling you how great they are and how ugly you are. It brings out the nasty side from those not privey to be part of the "country club"

I probably would have a lot more respect for Dallas if it wasnt for the decades of unfounded arrogance.

[RedScare]

Here's a column from Rick Casey, with a little more detail on the matter.

Rick Casey

The point he makes is the point several of us were trying to make. Not ALL of the metroplex is turning their back on their civic duty...only Laura Miller and the CITY of Dallas. Dallas COUNTY has said they will do what needs to be done, as it did last year. Knowing Fort Worth, they'll step up, as they did before. I'm sure some of the smaller burgs will chip in, as well.

Dallas? Well, maybe they'll let us use our FEMA cards at Nothpark Mall...maybe. Dallas is certainly entitled to make the statements they did. The rest of us are certainly entitled to our opinions as to what it says about Dallas' priorities. And yes, Houstonians are certainly entitled to be concerned that our most vulnerable neighbors might not be cared for in an emergency.

[tamtagon]

I probably would have a lot more respect for Dallas if it wasnt for the decades of unfounded arrogance.

Of course, the arrogance of The Dallas Fop Squad would be deflated without such strong reactions from envious Houston Roughnecks. It's a source of admiration and embarassment; Texans can be so serious in their pride. It's funny when people get really pissed off from my-city-is-better cat-fights.

-----

It's good that Metroplex municipalities get a jump on planning the accommodation of such a large special needs population. Since DFW and Houston hava about the same population, it's probably fair to say a Houston area evacuation would come close to doubling the special needs population in North Texas. I dont think the article mentioned how many other evacuees from the Coast would also head to the Metroplex, but probably a whole lot.

All the whining from organizers only points out the seriour need for some sort of North Texas regional authority. One single entity should organize the Metroplex inventory of facilities capable of temporarily accommodating the high volume of special needs individuals and their families should a catastrophy occur in the Houston area.

[JasonDFW]

With all this Dallas versus metroplex issue being tossed around here, what happend to the "Dallas is essentially all the cities in the metroplex"? I thought all was one, and that that is why "Dallas" is the largest "city" in Texas? Boy, it sure seems like a whole bunch of distinct cities here with little cohesiveness between them.

I just love how "Dallas" separates themselves from the other cities in the metroplex when things dont live up to thier image, but then claims them all when comparing itself to other U.S. cities to make themselve seem like the all mighty "New York" of Texas. (Or whatever they think they are.) Sorry. I'm just pointing it out the truth here.

Since I first started seeing you say this, about 6 months ago, I've been looking for anything that matches that and asking you for examples but I've found none and you've offered none. However, I should add there is one guy here I haven't seen in a while (perhaps banned?) that seems like he is just trying to piss Houston people off and I don't read his posts. The city of Dallas has very clear city limits, and a population of 1.2million. The metro area, which I try to refer as DFW although it is actually DFW-Arlington, is a very specific 12 counties with a population of around 5.9million. "North Texas" is a bit more vague but usually refers to the 16 county, 6.25 million person area. The first two can't possibly shrink or expand, they have formal definitions. Sometimes you have to guess what people are referring to, as I have in this thread, because often they will not tell you what they're referring to. I for one will always tell you which I'm referring to if I haven't made it clear in the context. I have no idea by the way what people are referring to when they say "Big D", as I simply do not hear it from much from people from any part of the metroplex. I have friends/acquaintances from all over the US that I've often heard this phrase from, but I don't think they think about it enough to actually answer if they're referring to the metro or city of Dallas.

The fact is, and what you choose to ignore, is some things lend themselves to numbers by city (especially government issues), some things by county, and some things by metro. If the city of Grapevine is touting the job market an outside group, I think it is fair to state metro facts. A huge portion (likely more than Houston) of people living in the metroplex work in a different town from the one they live. Fort Worth commutes to Dallas, Dallas to Fort Worth, Denton to both cities etc... If the city of Dallas is touting how they've lowered crime it makes sense to use the core city, or even smaller units like zip codes instead the metro numbers. It's all about the topic, the audience, and to a lesser extent the interests of the person discussing them. If the goal is to tell someone where to go shopping it'd be OK for them to cross a few blocks out of the city of Dallas into Highland Park to go shopping but if you're the Dallas council person tasked with raising the commercial to residential tax base ratio then

As to cohesiveness, in some ways many cities work well together (e.g. DART system with Dallas, Plano, Irving, Richardson etc... and the nice commuter rail between FW and D) and some things (like emergency management) don't work that way. Perhaps they should, but they aren't. That's something Houston does better than DFW. By the way I'm referring to the Houston metro there in saying "Houston", I know you think I'm naughty for doing that and people with more pure intentions would never do that..

Jason

[MidtownCoog]

Did the Houston leaders ever decide upon one emergency leadership position?

I remember Rick Perry wanted one, and the greter Houston area said bite me.

Not sure if they ever changed their position.

I don't trust Perry's leadership - he's all about followership on the obvious.

[2112]

Since I first started seeing you say this, about 6 months ago, I've been looking for anything that matches that and asking you for examples but I've found none and you've offered none...

Jason

You wont find it normally as something explicitly stated....that's because it is written in between the lines...I can, if you would like, research this and consolidate, afterwhich, the propensity of the evidence will make it obvious. But that is besides the point. The aggrogate clarity is in the years of listening to it and reading it. It is something that is "felt"and experienced after years and even decades. I think you know it's there. And that even in good deed, you choose to pretend it is not there, because it is an easy defense.

Of course, the arrogance of The Dallas Fop Squad would be deflated without such strong reactions from envious Houston Roughnecks. It's a source of admiration and embarassment; Texans can be so serious in their pride. It's funny when people get really pissed off from my-city-is-better cat-fights.

With all due respect, the use of the word "envious" is a bit of a stretch. A more descriptive word would be "annoyance".

[tamtagon]

With all due respect, the use of the word "envious" is a bit of a stretch.

That's what I thought, too, at first, but after some thought, I decided "envious" is a very appropriate word to describe how the pretentious set in Houston views the pretentious set in Dallas. "Roughnecks" is the weak word in that statement.

[713 To 214]

You wont find it normally as something explicitly stated....that's because it is written in between the lines...I can, if you would like, research this and consolidate, afterwhich, the propensity of the evidence will make it obvious. But that is besides the point. The aggrogate clarity is in the years of listening to it and reading it. It is something that is "felt"and experienced after years and even decades. I think you know it's there. And that even in good deed, you choose to pretend it is not there, because it is an easy defense.

Believe me. . .there is no conspiracy amongst HAIF posters living in Dallas to somehow covertly make Houstonians feel less than they should. The way you perceive things sounds like a personal problem to me, bro.

[Gary]

This thread continues to go down hill.

I think we should stop trying to convince our "Dallas" (not DFW) brothers of there city's attitude, an attitude that's known far and wide.

[Mister X]

Why would anyone with even the slightest clue about the world around them be envious of Dallas. There are far much nicer places to be envious of. If you like high density urban landscapes you would be envious of NYC, CHI, or SF, not Dallas. If you like year round nice weather, you would be envious of San Diego, not Dallas. If you like tacky lights, you would be envious of Las Vegas. Beaches? Mountains? Entertainment? Museums? Only a complete idiot would be envious of Dallas.

Dallas doesn't offer anything of any real significance that Houston doesn't. Even the pretentious set knows that.

[JGraspo]

Why would anyone with even the slightest clue about the world around them be envious of Dallas. There are far much nicer places to be envious of. If you like high density urban landscapes you would be envious of NYC, CHI, or SF, not Dallas. If you like year round nice weather, you would be envious of San Diego, not Dallas. If you like tacky lights, you would be envious of Las Vegas. Beaches? Mountains? Entertainment? Museums? Only a complete idiot would be envious of Dallas.

Dallas doesn't offer anything of any real significance that Houston doesn't. Even the pretentious set knows that.

Always putting it in perspective and keeping it real Mister X

[JasonDFW]

With all due respect, the use of the word "envious" is a bit of a stretch.

It's funny that word was used, because a Houstonian on this board said basically the same thing when things were turned around the other way toward Houston from the San Francisco Gate:

There is nothing positive or legit about Astros fans and very little to like about the city of Houston. Enron, hellish traffic, awful weather, a horrible college football program and drum-roll please . . . No Reggie Bush!

....

Dallas is classy and cool, San Antonio is funky, charming, historic and has maybe the best Mexican food on the planet. Austin is outrageous tunes and tons of fun.

Houston? The town smells bad. Maybe it's because it's always wet or hot. The worst stop on the PGA Tour is in Houston, sponsored by a greedy oil company.

To which the response came:

Houston bashing screams jealousy.

Interesting. One thing is for sure, Houstonians are obsessed with the people of Dallas. You shouldn't have to expend so much energy telling everyone how much superior you are.

Jason

[Trae]

^^I think your the obsessed one.

[Gary]

Interesting. One thing is for sure, Houstonians are obsessed with the people of Dallas. You shouldn't have to expend so much energy telling everyone how much superior you are.

Jason

If I have to hear this quote from another Dallas poster I'm going to scream.

We are obsessed with Dallas because we can't get away from the "our ____ doesn't stink" attitude. I am amazed that I hear nothing negative from a Dallasite about their city, if they do, it's a place that's up and coming. No wonder Houstonians get their tale feathers in a wad.

Just unbelievable.

[RedScare]

It's funny that word was used, because a Houstonian on this board said basically the same thing when things were turned around the other way toward Houston from the San Francisco Gate:

To which the response came:

Interesting. One thing is for sure, Houstonians are obsessed with the people of Dallas. You shouldn't have to expend so much energy telling everyone how much superior you are.

Jason

Coming from the guy who has posted 28 times about an article in the Houston Chronicle. Sounds pretty obsessed by what we think of Dallas.

[JasonDFW]

I am amazed that I hear nothing negative from a Dallasite about their city, if they do, it's a place that's up and coming. No wonder Houstonians get their tale feathers in a wad.

Just unbelievable.

I read many, many bad things about Dallas daily, mostly coming from people within Dallas. Of course, I pay better attention to these things than you, just as you likely pay better attention to Houston issues.

Jason

Coming from the guy who has posted 28 times about an article in the Houston Chronicle. Sounds pretty obsessed by what we think of Dallas.

I have posted 28 times in a thread about Dallas. If you were to post 28 times in a thread about Houston I would not try to twist the facts saying you're obsessed with something other than the topic.

Jason

[JGraspo]

I don't think any one person from Houston has posted this much about a Houston thread. If so it's probably a much longer thread that spans a longer period of time. 28 times in this short of a thread and in this short of a time is obsessive in my book