HDTV

[RedScare]

I just bought and installed an old-fashioned aerial antenna this weekend, so that I can pick up local HDTV. As most of you know, Satellite dishes do not pick up local channels in HD. Now, that the antenna is up and running, I'd like to try to pick up B-CS and Beaumont, or even Austin (the antenna supposedly has 190 mile range). Does anyone here have an aerial? If so, have you tried to pick up out-of-town signals?

Anyone know where the broadcast towers are for these cities? What direction, other than the obvious, do I need to aim this monster?

BTW, for anyone who hasn't done this, there are now 3 or 4 channels for every station, including 24 hour weather.

[musicman]

I just bought and installed an old-fashioned aerial antenna this weekend, so that I can pick up local HDTV. As most of you know, Satellite dishes do not pick up local channels in HD. Now, that the antenna is up and running, I'd like to try to pick up B-CS and Beaumont, or even Austin (the antenna supposedly has 190 mile range). Does anyone here have an aerial? If so, have you tried to pick up out-of-town signals?

Anyone know where the broadcast towers are for these cities? What direction, other than the obvious, do I need to aim this monster?

BTW, for anyone who hasn't done this, there are now 3 or 4 channels for every station, including 24 hour weather.

FYI the channel 11 technicians/engineers told me that their digital signal is weaker. I'm assuming that since it is digital there is less bandwidth required for broadcasting. If you do figure out something keep us posted cause i'm addicted to my hdtv.

to determine what channel the stations are broadcasting this site may help.

antenna web

[JasonDFW]

I just bought and installed an old-fashioned aerial antenna this weekend, so that I can pick up local HDTV. As most of you know, Satellite dishes do not pick up local channels in HD. Now, that the antenna is up and running, I'd like to try to pick up B-CS and Beaumont, or even Austin (the antenna supposedly has 190 mile range). Does anyone here have an aerial? If so, have you tried to pick up out-of-town signals?

Anyone know where the broadcast towers are for these cities? What direction, other than the obvious, do I need to aim this monster?

BTW, for anyone who hasn't done this, there are now 3 or 4 channels for every station, including 24 hour weather.

You will never pick up stations from 190 miles consistently, no matter the power, without a 2,000 foot tower. It has to do with the curvature of the earth and the fact that VHF and UHF stations will travel right through the ionosphere and will not bounce back to earth like the AM band.

Musicman: I think it was you before that mentioned something about digital requiring less bandwidth. You're a bit confused on this. Bandwidth is different than power. The DTV digital signal basically uses up the full 6MHz bandwidth of the US spectrum. Its the power of digital stations that is usually less than their analog counterpart.

Jason

[travelguy_73]

AVSforum.com has a local HD forum for Houston. I got on there when I was looking for a good indoor (that's an oxymoron) antenna since I can't get HD via satellite and I can't mount anything on my building. Anyway, there are a number of very knowledgable people on there, so check it out!

As for range, aiming these things can be really tricky. I get 2.1, 11.1, and with adjustment 13.1. Never could get PBS, since they are high VHF and not UFH like everyone else.

BTW, I recall that Houston is getting local HD via DirecTV this year, assuming it hasn't already happened. I have to say that OTA HD is definitely superior to anything that you can get from cable or satellite. It's pure and uncompressed. Downside is can't integrate it into the DirecTivo!

[musicman]

Musicman: I think it was you before that mentioned something about digital requiring less bandwidth. You're a bit confused on this. Bandwidth is different than power. The DTV digital signal basically uses up the full 6MHz bandwidth of the US spectrum. Its the power of digital stations that is usually less than their analog counterpart.

Jason

I agree bandwidth is distinctly different than power. I am saying that an analog channel requires more bandwidth that a digital one. The reason we are going digital is that in we are running out of "air" space for all our electronic gadgets. this will prevent future interference. In the same analog bandwidth, they are able to broadcast multiple digital signals now instead of one. For instance ch 13 analog is one station, but digitally they are able to broadcast three. You are required to select three distinct channels now instead of one. I believe they are still using the same bandwidth as a whole, however each signal is basically compressed digitally to provide more data in less space. Hence each station individually requires less bandwidth

The 2 paragraphs below are from a tv station website.

DTV has a distinct advantage over today

[skwatra]

i tried over the air when i lived in seabrook. i had a simple power amplified directional antenna in my apartment, and was only able to pick up 2 stations, and one more by moving the antenna. i went with timewarner after that. can't live without my DVR now...

check out hdtvpub.com for lots of info on HD OTA as well.

[musicman]

As for range, aiming these things can be really tricky. I get 2.1, 11.1, and with adjustment 13.1. Never could get PBS, since they are high VHF and not UFH like everyone else.

BTW, I recall that Houston is getting local HD via DirecTV this year, assuming it hasn't already happened. I have to say that OTA HD is definitely superior to anything that you can get from cable or satellite. It's pure and uncompressed. Downside is can't integrate it into the DirecTivo!

May I ask what kind of TV and antenna you're using? I"ve had absolutely no problem getting any stations. I know when i look at fox i do have to shift the antenna about 50 or so degrees but that's it. I have an LG LCD 37" hdtv with a odd looking antenna i bought at circuit city. Also even though it also has "rabbit ears", I never extend them cause for me, it makes it more difficult to obtain the digital stations.

Also PBS is a VHF station. too bad you can't get it cause it has the most hd programming.

i tried over the air when i lived in seabrook. i had a simple power amplified directional antenna in my apartment, and was only able to pick up 2 stations, and one more by moving the antenna. i went with timewarner after that. can't live without my DVR now...

The ch 11 engineer told me something similar..i remember he asked where i lived and i said inside the loop and he said you should have no problem. I think he had mentioned something like if you live outside the beltway you may have problems.

[RedScare]

I'm using a Radio Shack VU-190-XR. It picks up all of the network channels perfectly. PBS has some good HD programming that really shows off HD.

Jason, I pretty well guessed that I'd have a tough time picking up 190 miles away on a regular basis. However, Beaumont is only 120 miles, and Bryan 100, so I thought I could get those. It took awhile to figure out how to incorporate it into my DirecTV tuner (even though it is very simple), so I haven't played around with out-of-town stations yet.

BTW, musicman, I tried that HD antenna that you attach to the dish. It didn't pick up anything.

[Jeebus]

I hate Time Warner, but like Skwatra, I couldn't live without my DVR!

[jm1fd]

AVSforum.com has a local HD forum for Houston. I got on there when I was looking for a good indoor (that's an oxymoron) antenna since I can't get HD via satellite and I can't mount anything on my building.

I remember reading something a while back stating that federal law trumps HOA regs, and you can mount whatever you want....

[REALaw]

BTW, I recall that Houston is getting local HD via DirecTV this year, assuming it hasn't already happened.

DirecTV has HD local channels for only NBC, ABC, and FOX. Plus you have to buy the DirecTV HD receiver which isn't cheap. But, it's nice to have the total integration.

[RedScare]

DirecTV has HD local channels for only NBC, ABC, and FOX. Plus you have to buy the DirecTV HD receiver which isn't cheap. But, it's nice to have the total integration.

I don't recall picking up HD on local channels with DirecTV. They have New York HD channels for that. The problem is, when you are watching sports, they often will black out the New York channels.

I have the HD tuner already.

[JasonDFW]

Jason, I pretty well guessed that I'd have a tough time picking up 190 miles away on a regular basis. However, Beaumont is only 120 miles, and Bryan 100, so I thought I could get those. It took awhile to figure out how to incorporate it into my DirecTV tuner (even though it is very simple), so I haven't played around with out-of-town stations yet.

You're really pushing it. Basically at about this distance, depending on your elevation (which can't be that high given where you live) the antenna is not likely the limitation, the height of it is. If you could put up say a 70' Rohn 25G tower in the back yard you'd have a better chance. Even with that though you're still going to have co-channel interference from other locations as none of radio shack's combo antennas have stellar directivity.

By the way, this may be obvious but you can get over the air HDTV DVRs so . Some of them do functions not even Tivo does. Of course there is always Windows MCE as well.

And last I checked, DirecTV doesn't yet have local HD content on the air for Houston. I can't remember if it was mid 06 or mid 07 that it was supposed to be available.

Jason

[skwatra]

depending on your elevation (which can't be that high given where you live)

he does live in the Heights!

[RedScare]

70 footer? In the Heights? I'm all over it!

I've got 20 feet of pole, and I'm sitting on 60 feet of dirt (which is pretty good for Houston!), so we'll see. While looking around at different forums, I saw that Houston, along with Dallas, DID have HD locals. But, I watch it every night, and if THAT is HD on DirecTV, it's the crappiest HD ever! I've noticed that every deadline they ever set for HD, they've missed.

Oh well, the locals are coming in pretty good on this antenna. I'll let everyone know what else I find.

[editor]

I remember reading something a while back stating that federal law trumps HOA regs, and you can mount whatever you want....

I'm not sure about HOA restrictions, but federal law absolutely trumps apartment restrictions. You still can't mount anything to your apartment building or balcony railing, but you can have a dish or whatever other antenna you want on your balcony, as long as it's on a tripod and not attached to the building.

There was some court action or something back around 2000 that caused my apartment complex (Live Oak in Midtown, now known by a different name) to send around memos to everyone outlining exactly what our rights are.

[RedScare]

FCC regs allow antennas in subdivisions, as well.

[editor]

I have to say that OTA HD is definitely superior to anything that you can get from cable or satellite. It's pure and uncompressed. Downside is can't integrate it into the DirecTivo!

Don't fool yourself. HDTV is compressed. But over the air it hasn't been re-compressed even tighter by a cable or satellite company.

It's the compression that allows them to fit multiple channels in the same space as an old channel used to take up. Computers dynamically adjust the compression on the fly depending on the type of programming being shown on all of the subchannels and at what resolution.

As an historical aside: The broadcasters didn't want HDTV -- it was a congressional mandate. TV stations, like just about every other company, don't want to spend money unless absolutely necessary and they fought against the transition to DTV. What made them eventually give in was the concession allowing them to multicast, and not charging them for a second channel during the transition period when they would have both analog and digital stations on the air.

I've never been clear about why congress pushed for DTV so hard. I've heard a number of things from pressue by the electronics industry to jealousy over other countries having digital already. As with anything in Washington, the real story is probably lost.

[Jeebus]

While looking around at different forums, I saw that Houston, along with Dallas, DID have HD locals. But, I watch it every night, and if THAT is HD on DirecTV, it's the crappiest HD ever! I've noticed that every deadline they ever set for HD, they've missed.

Red I'm not sure if you're just restating that the local channels are broadcasting in HD. If so, then yes. That's the only advantage I still see with cable vs. satellite - the local channels. Now, has any local channel actual shot & broadcasted anything in HD locally? No, no that I'm aware of. The only HD programming I've seen is from the networks.

Speaking of which, we finally got a WB-HD channel (305). I'm still waiting for ESPN-HD though. They advertise it, but I'm not seeing it available. I keep wondering how long before some of the regular cable channels switch over as well. Food Network, History, TLC, Discovery (Discovery theatre is nice, but not really functional), etc.

EDIT: Nevermind, I have ESPN-HD. TWC is just being a jerk & holding it hostage until I pony up another 7 bucks monthly..

[skwatra]

EDIT: Nevermind, I have ESPN-HD. TWC is just being a jerk & holding it hostage until I pony up another 7 bucks monthly..

HD PLUS Add $5 per month

Includes ESPN HD, HDNet and HDNet Movies

its also prorated, and takes a quick phone call to add. what i used to do (yes i'm this cheap, those bills get pricey), is if there was a specific event i wanted to watch on ESPN, i would call and add HD PLUS, then call the next day and cancel it. I tried it permanently for a while, but didn't find myself watching HDNet or HDNet movies, so i didn't keep it.

[travelguy_73]

May I ask what kind of TV and antenna you're using? I"ve had absolutely no problem getting any stations. I know when i look at fox i do have to shift the antenna about 50 or so degrees but that's it. I have an LG LCD 37" hdtv with a odd looking antenna i bought at circuit city. Also even though it also has "rabbit ears", I never extend them cause for me, it makes it more difficult to obtain the digital stations.

Also PBS is a VHF station. too bad you can't get it cause it has the most hd programming.

The ch 11 engineer told me something similar..i remember he asked where i lived and i said inside the loop and he said you should have no problem. I think he had mentioned something like if you live outside the beltway you may have problems.

I'm downtown, with a somewhat obstucted shot to get to the signal farm. The signal must bounce around a lot between buildings because I have the antenna pointed about 50 degrees away from the farm (on the SW side) to get the channels. I consider myself lucky to have what I have! I have a 42" Philips Ambilight plasma with an indoor Zenith ZHDTV1 antenna. I went through 4-5 antennas in all price ranges, and this one works best for me. It has both UHF and VHF, but I just can't get the VHF to work. P***** me off that PBS, with all the good HD content, uses it. Wish I knew why!

I remember reading something a while back stating that federal law trumps HOA regs, and you can mount whatever you want....

This is true for HOAs, except I believe it allows anything 1 meter and under (not that anyone uses those mega-dishes anymore...or do they?). In my building, the rules say nothing can me mounted outside, and I don't have a balcony anyways. There is one big dish on the roof that stacks the signal and sends to all the units (this is typical of all multi-family buildings). Supposedly there is a solution that would allow us to have HD without a lot of wiring expense, but I haven't pushed the issue.

[RedScare]

Red I'm not sure if you're just restating that the local channels are broadcasting in HD. If so, then yes. That's the only advantage I still see with cable vs. satellite - the local channels.

I WAS saying that DirecTV stated that local is HD. However, it has not come online yet, like JasonDFW said. So, the only way to get HD in Houston is OTA. TWC of course, has HD if you pay the 7 bucks. But, it doesn't give you all of the broadcasts. Not that it matters. The extra channel looks to just be 24 hour weather.

[Jeebus]

TWC of course, has HD if you pay the 7 bucks. But, it doesn't give you all of the broadcasts. Not that it matters. The extra channel looks to just be 24 hour weather.

How many extra channels does each local station have? Up to three maximum right?

TWC gives us:

KHOU CBS - 11.1, 11.2 (weather)

KPRC NBC - 2.1, 2.2 (news), 2.3 (weather)

KTRK ABC - 13.1 , 13.2 (news), 13.3 (news/weather)

KUHT PBS - 8.1, 8.2 (alternate programing)

KRIV FOX - 26.1

KHWB WB - 39.1

What burns me is that TWC will give you TNT-HD as part of the HD package, but makes you pay extra for ESPN-HD. The problem with TNT is that almost every program & movie they run, its not even in HD. They usually just zoom the picture and then add their TNT-HD banner to give the illusion of true HD. If you flip from TNT to TNT-HD you'll find identical pictures, except that the top & bottom of the TNT-HD picture has been cut off from the zooming process.

[musicman]

How many extra channels does each local station have? Up to three maximum right?

No, three is not the maximum. I believe some of those religious stations here have 4 or 5 however the quality of the pic is NOT HD. Therefore since it isn't in HD there is less data to broadcast and hence they can broadcast more than 3 channels.

for me your descriptions of each channel aren't quite accurate like 13.2 does show news but they also show other programs like infomercials, i know they showed a baseball series. For me though I do enjoy that they repeat the 6pm news at 7. in case you get home late you can still watch the news. sometimes it is an exact copy of what is on 13.1

btw, does the audio level on 13.1 tend to be lower than the other channels' audio level?

[Jeebus]

btw, does the audio level on 13.1 tend to be lower than the other channels' audio level?

13.1's audio compared to all other channels, or just the other KTRK digital channels? Either way I haven't noticed. The only problem I have is the dialogue in most shows being so soft, causing me to turn the volume up. Then when the commercials come on they're so damn loud my ears bleed. I've tried everything from adjusting my surround sound, to experiementing with the tv's volume leveling feature. Nothing seems to work for me.

[skwatra]

What burns me is that TWC will give you TNT-HD as part of the HD package, but makes you pay extra for ESPN-HD.

i remember complaining to TW when ESPN HD was not an option at all. There were some big contract issues between the two, i'm guessing they didn't get a good deal.

i agree about TNT, its not true HD, though it is better quality picture and at least usually in 5.1

[Jeebus]

Well, I'm waiting for FX to go HD. Currently their shows look like crap on my TV (42" Plasma). My wife asked me about MTV, but I figured they'd be one of the last to go, seeing as most of their shows are very cheaply produced.

[musicman]

13.1's audio compared to all other channels, or just the other KTRK digital channels? Either way I haven't noticed. The only problem I have is the dialogue in most shows being so soft, causing me to turn the volume up. Then when the commercials come on they're so damn loud my ears bleed. I've tried everything from adjusting my surround sound, to experiementing with the tv's volume leveling feature. Nothing seems to work for me.

I just noticed it on 13.1 only. when i change to another channel it is loud of all a sudden. even when they simulcast the news on 13.1 (hd) and 13.2 (sd) 13.1 is less loud.

Another question...how are you routing sound from your tv to your surround sound? optical cable?

[Jeebus]

For regular tv, I just use RCA's from the cable box to the tv. For surround sound, I'm running optical from the cable box to the receiver.

[editor]

How many extra channels does each local station have? Up to three maximum right?

The maximum number of channels each station has depends on what's being shown. Certain programs are kind of low-bandwidth compared to others, and the stations can mix-and-match to fill up the space available. Sometimes you'll see stations show some movie in high quality, and the other channels get compressed to crap, or are dropped altogether.

Sports - high bandwidth - high framerate, lots of action.

Movies - high bandwidth - widescreen, detail is important.

News - low bandwidth - bursts of action, with long stretches of relative calm.

Weather - low bandwidth - compression computer doesn't even break a sweat.

Dramas - low bandwidth - lots of dialogue. Not many scene changes.

I haven't been on the compression side of any music videos, so I'm not sure how they would fit. Part of me thinks that they would be high-bandwidth because of all the quick cuts and fast action. But maybe not.