Texas Arresting...

[J.A.S.O.N.]

Texas arresting people in bars for being drunk

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - Texas has begun sending undercover agents into bars to arrest drinkers for being drunk, a spokeswoman for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission said on Wednesday.

The first sting operation was conducted recently in a Dallas suburb where agents infiltrated 36 bars and arrested 30 people for public intoxication, said the commission's Carolyn Beck.

Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkenness, Beck said.

The goal, she said, was to detain drunks before they leave a bar and go do something dangerous like drive a car.

"We feel that the only way we're going to get at the drunk driving problem and the problem of people hurting each other while drunk is by crackdowns like this," she said.

"There are a lot of dangerous and stupid things people do when they're intoxicated, other than get behind the wheel of a car," Beck said. "People walk out into traffic and get run over, people jump off of balconies trying to reach a swimming pool and miss."

She said the sting operations would continue throughout the state.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060322/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_bars_1

Edited March 23, 2006 by J.A.S.O.N.

[RedScare]

This is not entirely new conduct on the part of TABC, or bored police departments, like Oak Ridge North PD, Shenandoah PD, and the Montgomery County SO. I have represented numerous persons who have been plucked out of bars and arrested, most of whom do not meet the legal definition of public intoxication.

Virtually all of those I represented had charges dismissed because the prosecutors doubted whether the person was "so intoxicated as to be a danger to himself or others". This is almost impossible to prove, unless the person has actually done something dangerous, like drive a car. When TABC drags them out of their chair and arrests them before (and without knowing if) they get into a car, there is little or no proof of dangerousness. But this is not a problem to TABC. They know that most PI arrestees plead Guilty just to get out of jail.

Besides, this is just a terror tactic being carried out by a government still upset that Prohibition ended. I would point out which political party controls Texas government, but I'd be accused of being out of line. Just remember Gestapo tactics like this in November.

Question to bachanon: Are they still doing mass arrests in The Woodlands? The last group I handled there was in 1999.

[pineda]

Care to give out your number, Red, just in case...

[dbigtex56]

Care to give out your number, Red, just in case...

No need to blush, pineda.

We all are at risk of being arrested for PI. The fact of sobriety or lack of same doesn't matter. All that's required is the testimony of the arresting officer. There is no recourse - you cannot demand a breatholizer or blood test.

(Red, please correct me if I'm wrong - but I'm pretty sure I'm right.)

[DJ V Lawrence]

Wow!

I kinda figured that the reason people usually go to bars is to drink. I wonder if the stings could hurt the bar/night industry. And how would those establishments stay opened if they can't serve alcohol without worrying about a sting on their customers? (I'm guessing the stings are also to give the owners some accountability)

I do like the fact that drunk driving is being acknowleged throughout the state. But if they have a sobber designated driver with them at the bar during the sting, would they still get arrested?

[RedScare]

No need to blush, pineda.

We all are at risk of being arrested for PI. The fact of sobriety or lack of same doesn't matter. All that's required is the testimony of the arresting officer. There is no recourse - you cannot demand a breatholizer or blood test.

(Red, please correct me if I'm wrong - but I'm pretty sure I'm right.)

bigtex is absolutely correct. The police are not required to give a breath test, take photos or videotape. If they are of the mind to arrest, you will be arrested. It is then your word against his.

The problem is not the honest cops. Most of us like to think that all of them do their job honestly. But, the competitive nature of the business causes some to fudge the facts. Some have been known to arrest "close calls" just so the case will go to trial, enabling the officer to get overtime pay for testifying in court. The fact that the accused citizen must then spend thousands of dollars to clear their name doesn't seem to bother them.

I would assume TABC is using this tactic to go after "problem bars". A high number of arrests at your bar can affect your license renewal. But, the potential for abuse is so high that they can't be trusted. And, why should innocent citizens who are not driving have to go to jail, just so TABC can harrass a bar owner?

PS - Since bigtex doesn't seem to mind, I'll post my number. Mods, if it's a problem, just delete. My office number is 713-227-2700. (Easy for drunks to remember) Happy Drinking!

[Parrothead]

wow, people jumping off of balconies into pools and missing? NOOO! Walking out in the middle of the road and getting hit? You must be kidding!

It's called "thinning of the herd". Sounds like these people are taking care of things well enough on their own, just through process of elimination.

Miss Carolyn needs to have a beer and just relax.

[RedScare]

Yes, with the ever-growing number of drunks jumping off of balconies, I must say that this is an intelligent use of our limited resources. In fact, I can't think of a single thing more important to the state's citizens than reducing the number of balcony jumpers.

(BTW, methinks Ms. Beck may have been drunk when she wrote this speech.)

[TJones]

Red, let me ask you, is it always better, NOT to do the breathalizer if asked, and buy the time you may or may not need, down at the police station, or can they draw blood right there if they so wish ?

[RedScare]

Red, let me ask you, is it always better, NOT to do the breathalizer if asked, and buy the time you may or may not need, down at the police station, or can they draw blood right there if they so wish ?

The short answer is that if you have been drinking, never take the test. The breath test is not nearly as reliable as the propaganda we've been fed for 30 years. Additionally, with the lower alcohol level (.08), it takes fewer drinks to be "legally" intoxicated. With the old .10 standard, virtually everyone was intoxicated at .10. Now, there are those who are not intoxicated at .08, yet the law still says you are guilty. So, you may feel sober, but the test (and the law) says you are intoxicated.

Because the government has been so successful at convincing everyone that the test is infallible, it is almost impossible to convince a jury otherwise. If you do not blow, the best evidence will be the videotape of your arrest. If you perform well on the video, the chances of a not guilty are dramatically increased.

Now, there is also a DPS "penalty" if you are convicted of DWI, $1000 a year for 3 years. This is in addition to your fine and court costs. If you blow .16 or higher, the penalty goes to $1500 per year. So, there could be a $1500 penalty just for blowing too high. If you do not blow, there is no way to know how high your alcohol level was.

Some people are concerned that your license will be suspended for 6 months if you do not blow. I can appeal the suspension. I can also get you an occupational license, allowing you to drive to work while suspended. Besides, which is more important, a 6 month DL suspension, or having a DWI conviction, with fines, penalties, and higher insurance?

So, NEVER take the test. Instead, tell the officer you will take any test he wishes, AFTER you talk to your lawyer. He won't let you call your lawyer, but you sound like you are not refusing. Above all, don't get angry. You are being videotaped.

[Jeebus]

Here's a question from us in the peanut gallery (the po' folks).. Unlike everyone on tv, if arrested, and I ask for my lawyer, I don't actually have one to call! What do I do? What is the real life answer for that moment when you "want to speak with your lawyer", but you're just a working schmo who's never once thought about needing a lawyer before?

[RedScare]

In virtually every arrest, the police will not let you call a lawyer until they are finished booking you into jail, so it does not matter that you don't have one to call. What the request for a lawyer does, however, is force the police to stop interrogation until they comply with your demand. Since they won't let you call the lawyer, questioning stops...or, if they question you anyway, the questioning will be inadmissible in court. So, ask for your lawyer, regardless. It actually means something!

Oh, and when they tell you that you have the right to remain silent....REMAIN SILENT! I can't tell you how many people tell me, "I thought that only worked on TV".

[Jeebus]

So instead of asking for "my" lawyer, I should just ask for "a" lawyer? Hopefully they'll have internet access where I get booked, so I can just PM you!

[Heights2Bastrop]

I heard on the news this evening the 33% of the arrests have been in Austin.

BTW, there is a pretty good way to avoid getting a DWI. I was told how in DWI class after I got mine 13 years ago.

[RedScare]

I heard on the news this evening the 33% of the arrests have been in Austin.

BTW, there is a pretty good way to avoid getting a DWI. I was told how in DWI class after I got mine 13 years ago.

True, but not everyone knows how to drive that fast.

Seriously, H2B is right. If you're going to tie one on, plan ahead. If you are only having a few, wear your seatbelt, drive the speed limit and use your turn signals.

And never, ever, EVER carry dope in your car with an expired inspection sticker.

[CE_ugh]

True, but not everyone knows how to drive that fast.

Seriously, H2B is right. If you're going to tie one on, plan ahead. If you are only having a few, wear your seatbelt, drive the speed limit and use your turn signals.

And never, ever, EVER carry dope in your car with an expired inspection sticker.

ooh I need to get a new one

[RedScare]

Here's an article on this operation from the Dallas MN.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...rs.10b9f8a.html

TABC arrested an out-of-towner drinking at the hotel bar of the hotel that he was staying in. If their purpose is to prevent drunk driving, why go arrest people who are already home?

[Jeebus]

TABC arrested an out-of-towner drinking at the hotel bar of the hotel that he was staying in. If their purpose is to prevent drunk driving, why go arrest people who are already home?

What recourse does someone have in this man's particular case? What would you suggest if you were his attorney?

[jm1fd]

My office number is 713-227-2700. (Easy for drunks to remember) Happy Drinking!

Alternatively just remember 713-A-CRAP-00

Courtesy http://www.phonespell.org/

[infinite_jim]

LOL!,

this is why i can't be bothered to drink in public anymore

good info Red

if i wasn't being reppresented by another reputable attorney last fall

I would have called you.

[TheNiche]

Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkenness, Beck said.

The goal, she said, was to detain drunks before they leave a bar and go do something dangerous like drive a car.

This is a load of steaming hot bovine feces. A bar is not a public place, as it is not publicly-owned or operated. The government has no vested interest in the operations or activities of a bar except for the stream of revenues that it receives from the taxing of the business or taxing from the consumption of alcohol.

If they can arrest someone at a bar for being drunk, can they arrest someone for being drunk in their own home?

[RedScare]

This is a load of steaming hot bovine feces. A bar is not a public place, as it is not publicly-owned or operated. The government has no vested interest in the operations or activities of a bar except for the stream of revenues that it receives from the taxing of the business or taxing from the consumption of alcohol.

If they can arrest someone at a bar for being drunk, can they arrest someone for being drunk in their own home?

Believe it or not, I once represented a guy who got drunk in his house, and then fired off a round from his shotgun on his front porch. He lived on about 2 acres in Tarrant County. When the police showed up, they arrested him for Reckless Conduct and Public Intoxication. They actually wrote in the polie report that he was drunk in his living room!

The (young) DA at first tried to argue that it was a legitimate charge. It is one of the few times I have laughed in someone's face. After consulting with her boss, who also laughed, she agreed that one's living room is not public, and dismissed the case. The Reckless Conduct charge was also dismissed, since no one saw him fire the shotgun, and therefore, could not say he fired it recklessly.

As for bars, they are "quasi-public", in that they are open to the public. Also, the TABC permit they receive to sell alcohol gives TABC officers the right to enter the premises and inspect for compliance, without notice or a warrant.

[Jeebus]

My office number is 713-227-2700. (Easy for drunks to remember) Happy Drinking!

Tell me you wouldn't chuckle just a bit if at 4:30 in the morning you get a call from a guy asking for Redscare who says he is Jeebus.

It could happen..

[TheNiche]

As for bars, they are "quasi-public", in that they are open to the public. Also, the TABC permit they receive to sell alcohol gives TABC officers the right to enter the premises and inspect for compliance, without notice or a warrant.

Well that's certainly annoying. I'd still argue that a private establishment is a private establishment in that the owner can choose who to let in or keep out. We're not talking about a beer concession at a friggin carnival.

As for TABC, couldn't they just charge an even more ridiculous rate for alcohol permits or better yet the sale of alcohol, and then just give some subsidy to the the victims (or estates) of those hurt in auto accidents with drunks?

[wendyps]

I heard on NPR this morning that they are suspending this for the time being....woohoooooo. time to go nuts!!!