Why doesn't Metro contribute to fighting climate changes- Extreme Heat?

[trymahjong]

With all the forward thinking ideas Metro is giving us for Houston-- why not address ameliorating   Extreme Heat experience of people waiting for a bus during over heated Houston summer?

of course more shaded bus stops would be great but maybe......

Metro needs ideas......Here's a few
 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by trymahjong

[Texasota]

I mean, they are actively contracting out hundreds of new covered bus stops. Adding this kind of greenery adds significantly to maintenance costs - I'd rather they build more shelters and plant trees.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Texasota

[trymahjong]

I was wondering if you had stood under the current Metro cover when it's 100 degrees plus? Look closely at the shade it provides.....planting a 3" diameter pin oak for shade would be a positive addition but........what type of shade would it actually provide? Plus the cost of removing that concrete to allow planting  would be $$$.

 

IMO a "new normal" situation of 100 degrees for weeks and weeks would justify the maintenance costs if it helped improve the situation for riders. Slowly, these climate change impacts will affect how we view everything. Our mindset will change--- it won't be the same old same old- how could it be?

[trymahjong]

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/transportation/2023/06/29/455597/metro-bus-shelters-turn-into-easy-bake-ovens-in-heatwave-as-houson-riders-search-for-shade/

 

We should at least consider what other metro systems are trying

 

https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/eco-bus-stops-to-bring-cool-relief-in-fight-against-urban-heat-island-problem-6330

n

[Texasota]

I just don't think adding some vines is a real long-term solution - planting trees is. 

You'll notice the example bus stop you gave on Montrose (which isn't one of the new ones) does provide shade behind it, so it's not just becoming an oven. But ultimately you need the layering effect of a tree canopy to make a real difference. 

What Metro *should* be doing is working with the management districts, City, TXDOT, etc, to fund new tree plantings, especially near bus stops. 

But ultimately Metro isn't the problem here. Shade needs to be a city-wide priority, and I'd rather Metro focus on maximizing service *first*. 

Or to put it differently: Why add things to Metro's plate when the real problems are TXDOT, Public Works, etc?

[editor]

While it's trying to make improvements as fast as it can, Metro is a generation behind on a lot of things, especially is bus shelters. 
 

It's very proud that it is finally putting in covered bus shelters in some locations. Yay. Welcome to 1973.  But the vast majority of Metro's bus stops are nothing more than flimsy metal signs. 
 

It would be great if Metro would skip ahead to today with its new shelters, but that would probably entail leaving a lot of bus stops with no shelter at all. 
 

 

[mattyt36]

10 hours ago, Texasota said:

I just don't think adding some vines is a real long-term solution - planting trees is. 

Worst thing that has ever happened as far as city planning goes in Houston as far as I'm concerned is the absolute inattention to a requirement for trees in public rights-of-way, sidewalks (well, yeah, I guess we don't have those, I suppose they go hand-in-hand) and roadways.  And I'm not talking about the 19th century, even if someone made an effort in my lifetime, this city would be an entirely different and more livable place.  Atlanta, of course, is the most prominent example.

[trymahjong]

It's not the vines-- focus on mindset.

I'm fully committed to the idea, that Climate wise, nothing will ever be what it was..........ever.

Metro is a big entity- that surely hires a bunch of big shot " thinkers " to uhm..er...forward   Think! 
$$$? yes it will cost $$$$$$$$  but the increase of long mega heat events  isn't going away- it will have to be dealt with eventually.

 

So yes,In this time of heat crisis, I can  Metro call  out!   Are Metro personal on HAIF? Maybe.........is it okay to be  first of many voices to call for Metro to change their mindset? -absolutely!

Yes more bus stop covers! Yes, more trees planted! Yes more greenery on top of bus covers to support bees and butterflies and impact heat islands!

Sigh-  IMO, even   Metro can understand  the impact of this extreme heat and want to do something positive about it.

 

[august948]

15 hours ago, mattyt36 said:

Worst thing that has ever happened as far as city planning goes in Houston as far as I'm concerned is the absolute inattention to a requirement for trees in public rights-of-way, sidewalks (well, yeah, I guess we don't have those, I suppose they go hand-in-hand) and roadways.  And I'm not talking about the 19th century, even if someone made an effort in my lifetime, this city would be an entirely different and more livable place.  Atlanta, of course, is the most prominent example.

Apparently, the city has a plan to plant 4.6 million trees in the next 7 years.

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/energy-environment/2023/03/24/447243/city-plants-first-270-of-100000-tree-goal-in-order-to-create-more-green-space-in-houston/

Last go around for this sort of thing, 10 years ago or so, they planted a lot of the trees in the medians.  Prettier for driving but not so much for walking.  We'll see how it goes this time around.

[trymahjong]

That sounds great! I'm sort of math challenged; wondering how those 4.5 million trees will be distributed over Houston's 650 (+-) square miles? Is that about the number other cities plant?

Edited August 9, 2023 by trymahjong

[samagon]

14 hours ago, trymahjong said:

That sounds great! I'm sort of math challenged; wondering how those 4.5 million trees will be distributed over Houston's 650 (+-) square miles? Is that about the number other cities plant?

I think it's more (hopefully) going to matter the miles of roads in Houston as to how the distribution of those trees will happen. the entire area is comprised of largely private property, so I don't expect the city to plant in people's backyards, or even in city parks, but along streets and such, sure. in that, according to a chron article, there's 6200 miles of roads in Houston, so if they only plant trees on streets, then that's 725 trees per mile, if evenly spaced on each side of the road, then that's a tree planted on each side of the road every 15'. roughly, and my maths probably sucks.

as to the heat this year, it is anomalous, even considering our current doom path of climate change, but it's a great example of what we have in store. this year (and probably the next 5-10 years) is a result of the immense amount of water vapor that was shoved into the atmosphere by the hunga tonga whatever volcano.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/tonga-eruption-blasted-unprecedented-amount-of-water-into-stratosphere

Quote

Volcanic eruptions rarely inject much water into the stratosphere. In the 18 years that NASA has been taking measurements, only two other eruptions – the 2008 Kasatochi event in Alaska and the 2015 Calbuco eruption in Chile – sent appreciable amounts of water vapor to such high altitudes. But those were mere blips compared to the Tonga event, and the water vapor from both previous eruptions dissipated quickly. The excess water vapor injected by the Tonga volcano, on the other hand, could remain in the stratosphere for several years.

 

This extra water vapor could influence atmospheric chemistry, boosting certain chemical reactions that could temporarily worsen depletion of the ozone layer. It could also influence surface temperatures. Massive volcanic eruptions like Krakatoa and Mount Pinatubo typically cool Earth’s surface by ejecting gases, dust, and ash that reflect sunlight back into space. In contrast, the Tonga volcano didn’t inject large amounts of aerosols into the stratosphere, and the huge amounts of water vapor from the eruption may have a small, temporary warming effect, since water vapor traps heat. The effect would dissipate when the extra water vapor cycles out of the stratosphere and would not be enough to noticeably exacerbate climate change effects.

that report says small, temporary, while it doesn't feel small for the last month or so, in the overall yearly global average, it'll end up being small, and temporary, water vapor will dissipate from where it causes warming.

but yeah, as you said in another post, nothing is constant, all is changing, it has and it will continue to do so, regardless of whether you believe it's our fault or not, it doesn't matter, we're in for change, and our elected leaders need to figure out how to stop arguing and just make small changes like the tree plantings, or adjusting ordinances to reduce the heat island effects that get magnified as temperatures rise.

[trymahjong]

32 minutes ago, samagon said:

 

but yeah, as you said in another post, nothing is constant, all is changing, it has and it will continue to do so, regardless of whether you believe it's our fault or not, it doesn't matter, we're in for change, and our elected leaders need to figure out how to stop arguing and just make small changes like the tree plantings, or adjusting ordinances to reduce the heat island effects that get magnified as temperatures rise.

I'm glad you wrote that.....

since this is an election year--- Please please let the voters ask hard question about how Metro as well as COH should

lead.  Rather than follow

when it comes to strategies concerning climate change. 

[Texasota]

Metro, by its very existence, contributes to fighting climate change. Increasing the number of people using transit is *the* most important thing they can do in that fight.

I just always get annoyed when people criticize the *good* actors for not doing enough when the real problem *cough*TXDOT*cough* is standing right there.

 

[IWantTransit555]

2 hours ago, Texasota said:

I just always get annoyed when people criticize the *good* actors for not doing enough when the real problem *cough*TXDOT*cough* is standing right there.

 

What can we do about TXDOT? We were not even able to stop the 45 project.

[Texasota]

No I get it. Metro is easier because they might actually listen. But that doesn't mean they have to do everything, and I'd rather push them to improve service and frequency.

Accessibility is part of that of course, but adding vines to bus shelters is greenwashing something that's already actually pretty green. 

What I'd really like to see Metro do is seriously take inspiration from their better projects (the red line) and avoid the kinds of mistakes they're looking at making with the Gulfton line. Two new lanes of impermeable pavement will do a lot to contribute to a heat island effect and make that route a lot less safe than if they just replaced two existing lanes with transit lanes.

[Houston19514]

26 minutes ago, IWantTransit555 said:

What can we do about TXDOT? We were not even able to stop the 45 project.

Maybe pay closer attention to what TXDOT actually proposes to do.  For example, the I-45 expansion segments 1 & 2 is primarily to add HOV/HOT/bus lanes, not to mention that every TXDOT project in recent years includes a lot of attention to adding landscaping and trees.

[samagon]

4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Maybe pay closer attention to what TXDOT actually proposes to do.  For example, the I-45 expansion segments 1 & 2 is primarily to add HOV/HOT/bus lanes, not to mention that every TXDOT project in recent years includes a lot of attention to adding landscaping and trees.

not to bleed the subject from the i45 topic here, but TXDoT does exactly the bare minimum required by the FHWA to unlock the funds that justify their existence.

Edited August 10, 2023 by samagon

[trymahjong]

Hmmmmmmmmmm TxDot ........sigh

it garners a lot of attention I agree

but I started picking on Metro in reaction to the many riders seeming to spend significant time standing at bus stops with no shade when it's a kazillion degrees outside......" good actor " or not, Metro is slow in reacting...and the heat keeps increasing.Metro needs to step up.

I'm sure Metro, preens, when mention of their ridership or type of eco- friendly engines are brought up. However, IMO Metro's biggest  opportunity to gain serious chops in the pro/eco conversation......(and what transit system wouldn't want that) ......start putting up bus stops with " knock your socks off " xeriscape  greenery that comes up first thing when making a Google search on the subject.

[samagon]

5 hours ago, trymahjong said:

Hmmmmmmmmmm TxDot ........sigh

it garners a lot of attention I agree

but I started picking on Metro in reaction to the many riders seeming to spend significant time standing at bus stops with no shade when it's a kazillion degrees outside......" good actor " or not, Metro is slow in reacting...and the heat keeps increasing.Metro needs to step up.

I'm sure Metro, preens, when mention of their ridership or type of eco- friendly engines are brought up. However, IMO Metro's biggest  opportunity to gain serious chops in the pro/eco conversation......(and what transit system wouldn't want that) ......start putting up bus stops with " knock your socks off " xeriscape  greenery that comes up first thing when making a Google search on the subject.

this is a larger discussion than something METRO themselves should be responsible for though right?

if you look at Houston, streets are not designed for people, they're designed for cars. METRO buses have to share the streets with cars, so rather than a person waiting 5-10 minutes for a train that runs on a very strict schedule, they have to wait on a bus that has a schedule, but that schedule is subject to the whims of the vehicles it is forced to cohabitate with.

what's worse, it can even be said the whole city is built to serve cars, not people, so by extension, all the departments and organizations of the city, have to follow suit and design themselves to work around the primary need of cars, and then serve people.

[august948]

35 minutes ago, samagon said:

this is a larger discussion than something METRO themselves should be responsible for though right?

if you look at Houston, streets are not designed for people, they're designed for cars. METRO buses have to share the streets with cars, so rather than a person waiting 5-10 minutes for a train that runs on a very strict schedule, they have to wait on a bus that has a schedule, but that schedule is subject to the whims of the vehicles it is forced to cohabitate with.

what's worse, it can even be said the whole city is built to serve cars, not people, so by extension, all the departments and organizations of the city, have to follow suit and design themselves to work around the primary need of cars, and then serve people.

The waiting times comparison for busses vs trains are only ever going to be valid on a very limited set of routes.  There's no way you will ever be able to serve any significant fraction of the total bus stops by rail.  So, first and foremost, METRO should be taking the lead on improving shade at bus stops.  That's far easier and quicker than rebuilding entire roads.

[004n063]

20 hours ago, august948 said:

The waiting times comparison for busses vs trains are only ever going to be valid on a very limited set of routes.  There's no way you will ever be able to serve any significant fraction of the total bus stops by rail.  So, first and foremost, METRO should be taking the lead on improving shade at bus stops.  That's far easier and quicker than rebuilding entire roads.

I agree, but I'd also say that ensuring all buses have functioning trackers for the METRO TRIP app would do at least as much good, and could probably happen faster. Makes a huge difference to be able to duck into a Starbucks and track the bus as it approaches.

[trymahjong]

Have a great green xeriscape Metro shade to enjoy that Starbucks would enhance the experience .

[004n063]

2 hours ago, trymahjong said:

Have a great green xeriscape Metro shade to enjoy that Starbucks would enhance the experience .

I don't disagree, but I'd still pick the AC of the actual Starbucks myself

[BEES?!]

Sort of on topic, this was in the Chronicle. 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/metro-fan-bus-shelter-solar-power-18298783.php

METRO is designing bus stops with solar-powered fans and mesh sides/screens to allow for airflow. It sounds like METRO is one of the first transit authorities to do this here in the US, so they’re having to trial-and-error a lot of this as they go. They are going to do a trial run, it sounds like, of 50 shelters. I think they are going to put some of the first ones on the 82 route. 

[trymahjong]

The mention of mesh side screens  intrigued me- I googled it - The picture I found alluded to a $10k price tag!

 

The first thing that came to mind was the disastrous mega dollar "branding" designs Montrose Manage District put up all over Montrose and how that ended up- geez