Gulfton brt extension

[Jay123]

Hi I would like to start a thread with the new brt extension to gulfton soon.

https://www.ridemetro.org/about/metronext/metrorapid/metrorapid-gulfton-corridor-project

[004n063]

I'm excited about it. I've basically avoided Hillcroft since getting rid of my car, and I miss it; this will bring it back into my orbit, especially when it connects to the University line.

More importantly, it'll provide a rapid transit spine (and hopefully the same kinds of pedestrian realm improvements promised on the University Line) through the heart of the city's densest district. And of course, if this, the Silver Line, and the Inner Katy line are all connected, then it's a one-seat ride to Downtown. 

However, I think it is absolutely essential that they not use the current Silver Line timetable. More than 10-minute headways is not acceptable for a rapid transit line; they should be aiming for six or fewer.

Also, while the Bissonet-Gulfton stretch should be the top priority for Hillcroft, I hope they eventually extend it south to (at least) Brays and eventually add a northern branch to Woodway. Or maybe add a Hillcroft/I-10/Gessner/Braeswood loop line? 

Also Bellaire/Holcombe needs a rapid transit line from Kirkwood to TMC plz

[j_cuevas713]

It's important that anyone who frequents this forum gives feedback on METRO's plan to remove the bike lane on Hillcroft and replace it with a car lane. This would return Hillcroft to a 3 lane road each way and defeats the whole idea of making Hillcroft a multimodal street and slowing down drivers. To top it off, METRO thinks providing a path for both pedestrians and bicycles to share is a better idea. How dumb is this agency? We might have the dumbest transit agency in the nation. I've given my feedback about how absolutely stupid this is. 

Here is a link to the Metro site about the project: https://www.ridemetro.org/about/metronext/metrorapid/metrorapid-gulfton-corridor-project

And here is the link to give feedback: https://ridemetro.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_bae54Sl6MgcIIlw

[Houston19514]

2 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

It's important that anyone who frequents this forum gives feedback on METRO's plan to remove the bike lane on Hillcroft and replace it with a car lane. This would return Hillcroft to a 3 lane road each way and defeats the whole idea of making Hillcroft a multimodal street and slowing down drivers. To top it off, METRO thinks providing a path for both pedestrians and bicycles to share is a better idea. How dumb is this agency? We might have the dumbest transit agency in the nation. I've given my feedback about how absolutely stupid this is. 

Here is a link to the Metro site about the project: https://www.ridemetro.org/about/metronext/metrorapid/metrorapid-gulfton-corridor-project

And here is the link to give feedback: https://ridemetro.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_bae54Sl6MgcIIlw

They aren't adding a lane for cars; they are adding a lane for BRT buses. And from Gulfton to Bellaire they are removing a car lane (and adding very wide shared use sidewalk/bike lanes, as proposed for the rest of the Hillcroft BRT route).

 And the sidewalk/path with which they propose to replace the existing sidewalk and bike track is VERY wide and will easily accommodate bicycles and pedestrians.  PLUS Hillcroft currently has bike track only from Westward/Highstar to Bellaire Blvd?  4/10 of one mile. Metro is proposing the very wide sidewalk/bake track from Gulfton to Bissonet  1 1/2 miles.  Looks like greatly improved conditions for all involved. Bicylists give up 4/10 of a mile of exclusive bike track in exchange for 1 1/2 miles of nice wide shared path.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Houston19514

[cspwal]

At least for me biking around, roads with real off street shared paths (holly hall, bagby, and Cullen south of 45) are the nicest streets to bike, better than the high comfort lanes on Austin and Lamar because you get shade and real buffer between you and cars 

[springcityparts]

4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

They aren't adding a lane for cars; they are adding a lane for BRT buses. And from Gulfton to Bellaire they are removing a car lane (and adding very wide shared use sidewalk/bike lanes, as proposed for the rest of the Hillcroft BRT route).

 And the sidewalk/path with which they propose to replace the existing sidewalk and bike track is VERY wide and will easily accommodate bicycles and pedestrians.  PLUS Hillcroft currently has bike track only from Westward/Highstar to Bellaire Blvd?  4/10 of one mile. Metro is proposing the very wide sidewalk/bake track from Gulfton to Bissonet  1 1/2 miles.  Looks like greatly improved conditions for all involved. Bicylists give up 4/10 of a mile of exclusive bike track in exchange for 1 1/2 miles of nice wide shared path.

The section in question is currently three lanes and a bike lane in each direction  

they are proposing maintaining the three lanes and adding an exclusive bus only lane in the middle while removing the bikeway. They are removing buses from the current three vehicular lanes so effectively they are widening the road for vehicular traffic

Three lanes of traffic now un-impeded by bus traffic would be hard and unpleasant to cross as a pedestrian and we would lose safety improvements that accompany road diets (less speeding)

for me this is not about losing the bike lane. I would be most in favor of making an extra wide path similar to what they did on Bagby in downtown on both sides where there is a designated bikeway and plus a pedestrian exclusive path. 

[j_cuevas713]

14 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

They aren't adding a lane for cars; they are adding a lane for BRT buses. And from Gulfton to Bellaire they are removing a car lane (and adding very wide shared use sidewalk/bike lanes, as proposed for the rest of the Hillcroft BRT route).

 And the sidewalk/path with which they propose to replace the existing sidewalk and bike track is VERY wide and will easily accommodate bicycles and pedestrians.  PLUS Hillcroft currently has bike track only from Westward/Highstar to Bellaire Blvd?  4/10 of one mile. Metro is proposing the very wide sidewalk/bake track from Gulfton to Bissonet  1 1/2 miles.  Looks like greatly improved conditions for all involved. Bicylists give up 4/10 of a mile of exclusive bike track in exchange for 1 1/2 miles of nice wide shared path.

That's not what the plan shows and this idea that shared paths are somehow better is a joke. Crossing 3 lanes of traffic as a pedestrian is ridiculous, and cyclists and pedestrians get the consolation prize of a "shared path." Make Hillcroft 2 lanes each direction, simple. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by j_cuevas713

[Jay123]

Also why doesn’t metro make a brt route on bellaire and I remember when the metro next plan was approved a “signature” service for westheimer was approved but now they have reduced it to a “boost” corridor.

[Texasota]

82 was always going to become a Boost line. The "Westheimer Signature Service" thing is separate, skips Lower Westheimer, and hasn't really been fully explained, but definitely seems to still be planned.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Texasota

[editor]

On 7/31/2023 at 5:07 PM, j_cuevas713 said:

METRO thinks providing a path for both pedestrians and bicycles to share is a better idea.

Is it better to share a lane with pedestrians, or with cars?

[Houston19514]

On 8/1/2023 at 9:12 AM, j_cuevas713 said:

That's not what the plan shows and this idea that shared paths are somehow better is a joke. Crossing 3 lanes of traffic as a pedestrian is ridiculous, and cyclists and pedestrians get the consolation prize of a "shared path." Make Hillcroft 2 lanes each direction, simple. 

Yes, what I told you is what the plan shows. —there are currently three general traffic lanes used by all cars, buses and trucks.  The plan provides 3 general purpose lanes plus a new lane for BRT buses only.  The new lane is for BRT buses only, not cars.

[j_cuevas713]

1 hour ago, editor said:

Is it better to share a lane with pedestrians, or with cars?

Cars. And you're talking to someone who rides on street with traffic. You aren't going to change the car culture in this city by continuing to make exceptions for drivers. A sidewalk is just that, a SIDE WALK. Some streets benefit from a shared path like Bagby, but in this case we're talking about a mini highway in the middle of the city. 

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

Yes, what I told you is what the plan shows. —there are currently three general traffic lanes used by all cars, buses and trucks.  The plan provides 3 general purpose lanes plus a new lane for BRT buses only.  The new lane is for BRT buses only, not cars.

I'm completely aware of how BRT works. So you're ok with 3 lanes of traffic? That's my point, Hillcroft doesn't need 3 lanes each direction. This is about pedestrians feeling safe, and 3 car lanes isn't safe for people of all ages or for cyclists. The reason we have so many pedestrian fatalities in this city is we keep feeling bad for drivers. This city doesn't have to cater to drivers if it doesn't want to. It's all a choice. And if 2 car lanes isn't enough for drivers, then too bad. They'll have options to take BRT or walk/bike. Crossing a 6 lane road is ridiculous. That's not hard to understand. I see kids try to cross Kirby here in UK in the mornings to go to school. It's a disaster, and all it's doing is pushing those kids to want to leave Houston when they get older for cities that provide very basic needs for people. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by j_cuevas713

[004n063]

14 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Cars. And you're talking to someone who rides on street with traffic. You aren't going to change the car culture in this city by continuing to make exceptions for drivers. A sidewalk is just that, a SIDE WALK. Some streets benefit from a shared path like Bagby, but in this case we're talking about a mini highway in the middle of the city. 

I'm completely aware of how BRT works. So you're ok with 3 lanes of traffic? That's my point, Hillcroft doesn't need 3 lanes each direction. This is about pedestrians feeling safe, and 3 car lanes isn't safe for people of all ages or for cyclists. The reason we have so many pedestrian fatalities in this city is we keep feeling bad for drivers. This city doesn't have to cater to drivers if it doesn't want to. It's all a choice. And if 2 car lanes isn't enough for drivers, then too bad. They'll have options to take BRT or walk/bike. Crossing a 6 lane road is ridiculous. That's not hard to understand. I see kids try to cross Kirby here in UK in the mornings to go to school. It's a disaster, and all it's doing is pushing those kids to want to leave Houston when they get older for cities that provide very basic needs for people. 

I empathize with all of this, but preserving the current thousand feet of onstreet "protected" lanes isn't going to fix Hillcroft. It's a stroad, and a bad one at that (in terms of urban road design; obviously it's phenomenal as a food and culture hub). 

But a transit lane, done right, would be valuable for the neighborhood not because it would turn Hillcroft into a street (though we shouldn't rule out boulevardification in the long run), but because it would allow the neighborhood streets to lean into being (much more pedestrian-friendly) streets long term.

Will that actually happen? Not without a lot of advocacy. But could it happen? Only with functional higher-order transit on Hillcroft, if you ask me.

My bigger issue here is the triangle between 59 amd Westpark. There are a ton of destinations there, the pedestrian access is crappy, and the biking is death zone stuff. A connector branch up to the University Line and pedestrian/bike improvements (even a shared use path) would be welcome there.

[j_cuevas713]

4 minutes ago, 004n063 said:

I empathize with all of this, but preserving the current thousand feet of onstreet "protected" lanes isn't going to fix Hillcroft. It's a stroad, and a bad one at that (in terms of urban road design; obviously it's phenomenal as a food and culture hub). 

But a transit lane, done right, would be valuable for the neighborhood not because it would turn Hillcroft into a street (though we shouldn't rule out boulevardification in the long run), but because it would allow the neighborhood streets to lean into being (much more pedestrian-friendly) streets long term.

Will that actually happen? Not without a lot of advocacy. But could it happen? Only with functional higher-order transit on Hillcroft, if you ask me.

My bigger issue here is the triangle between 59 amd Westpark. There are a ton of destinations there, the pedestrian access is crappy, and the biking is death zone stuff. A connector branch up to the University Line and pedestrian/bike improvements (even a shared use path) would be welcome there.

That doesn't mean we can't change that. By keeping it a 3 lane road each direction, we aren't improving much. 

[Houston19514]

21 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I'm completely aware of how BRT works. So you're ok with 3 lanes of traffic? That's my point, Hillcroft doesn't need 3 lanes each direction. This is about pedestrians feeling safe, and 3 car lanes isn't safe for people of all ages or for cyclists. The reason we have so many pedestrian fatalities in this city is we keep feeling bad for drivers. This city doesn't have to cater to drivers if it doesn't want to. It's all a choice. And if 2 car lanes isn't enough for drivers, then too bad. They'll have options to take BRT or walk/bike. Crossing a 6 lane road is ridiculous. That's not hard to understand. I see kids try to cross Kirby here in UK in the mornings to go to school. It's a disaster, and all it's doing is pushing those kids to want to leave Houston when they get older for cities that provide very basic needs for people. 

You told us Metro was adding a car lane.  I merely pointed out that is not the plan. Metro proposes keeping three lanes for cars (and all other vehicles- general purpose lanes) and adding a BRT lane.

I expressed no opinion as to whether Hillcroft needs 3 general purpose lanes.  But to that point, that is not a matter Metro gets to decide. That is a city of Houston matter.  If you want fewer general purposes lanes on Hillcroft, you need to direct your thoughts to the City of Houston, not to Metro.

[j_cuevas713]

50 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

You told us Metro was adding a car lane.  I merely pointed out that is not the plan. Metro proposes keeping three lanes for cars (and all other vehicles- general purpose lanes) and adding a BRT lane.

I expressed no opinion as to whether Hillcroft needs 3 general purpose lanes.  But to that point, that is not a matter Metro gets to decide. That is a city of Houston matter.  If you want fewer general purposes lanes on Hillcroft, you need to direct your thoughts to the City of Houston, not to Metro.

Ok then maybe I worded that wrong. What I meant was they're going to maintain 3 lanes on Hillcroft by removing the bike lanes. The original plan was to keep the bike lanes and shift Hillcroft to 2 lanes but drivers gave feedback that they didn't want that. So Metro proposed the shared path which is nonsense because it's catering to what drivers want. The power starts with what the people want, and unless you tell Metro no we want to keep the bike lanes, they're going to keep Hillcroft a mini highway with 3 lanes each direction. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by j_cuevas713

[Houston19514]

40 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Ok then maybe I worded that wrong. What I meant was they're going to maintain 3 lanes on Hillcroft by removing the bike lanes. The original plan was to keep the bike lanes and shift Hillcroft to 2 lanes but drivers gave feedback that they didn't want that. So Metro proposed the shared path which is nonsense because it's catering to what drivers want. The power starts with what the people want, and unless you tell Metro no we want to keep the bike lanes, they're going to keep Hillcroft a mini highway with 3 lanes each direction. 

Drivers are people too.  ;-)     Where did you see Metro's explanation for the change?

Edited August 3, 2023 by Houston19514

[j_cuevas713]

20 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Drivers are people too.  ;-)     Where did you see Metro's explanation for the change?

Maybe so but transit agencies need to focus on moving people outside of a car and 3 lanes on a city street each direction is poor city infrastructure no matter where you live. It was from recent feedback. I need to go find it. 

[Houston19514]

2 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Maybe so but transit agencies need to focus on moving people outside of a car and 3 lanes on a city street each direction is poor city infrastructure no matter where you live. It was from recent feedback. I need to go find it. 

Here's a Chronicle article that gives an idea of the competing interests Metro has to consider. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/gulfton-brt-metro-houston-lanes-transit-18175799.php

And, again, it's ultimately the city that decides how many lanes there will be for cars.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Houston19514

[springcityparts]

On 8/3/2023 at 1:19 PM, Houston19514 said:

Here's a Chronicle article that gives an idea of the competing interests Metro has to consider. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/gulfton-brt-metro-houston-lanes-transit-18175799.php

And, again, it's ultimately the city that decides how many lanes there will be for cars.

We were given a quick presentation on this by a planner at the city and she was telling us this is very much up to METRO

[Houston19514]

4 hours ago, emmanume said:

We were given a quick presentation on this by a planner at the city and she was telling us this is very much up to METRO

Either she misspoke or you misunderstood.  Metro does not have blanket authority to do what they please with city streets. When one watches Metro Board committee meetings where they get update from staff on various projects, one of the constants is negotiations with the City.

[springcityparts]

Let’s just put it this way, whatever METRO recommends ultimately is what the city will implement. If the board of directors at METRO is convinced of keeping three general purpose lanes in this section of the project, it will happen this way.

Sure the city could technically pump the breaks because it’s their right of way and have authority over METRO but this road redesign is so minuscule that the city in full force is *unlikely* to interject. 

[Houston19514]

34 minutes ago, emmanume said:

Let’s just put it this way, whatever METRO recommends ultimately is what the city will implement. If the board of directors at METRO is convinced of keeping three general purpose lanes in this section of the project, it will happen this way.

Sure the city could technically pump the breaks because it’s their right of way and have authority over METRO but this road redesign is so minuscule that the city in full force is *unlikely* to interject. 

Well, yeah, if Metro decides to keep the number of general-purpose lanes the street (classified as a Major Thoroughfare) currently has, it is unlikely the city would object.  It is very possibly a different story if Metro proposes to reduce the number of general-purpose lanes. I guarantee Metro is talking with the City about these plans and working closely with them on the ultimate street design.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Houston19514

[004n063]

On 8/6/2023 at 4:12 PM, Houston19514 said:

the street (classified as a Major Thoroughfare)

Everything else aside, it is insane to me that the city would classify one of the most business-dense, culturally significant streets in the whole state as a "thoroughfare". 

The stroad mindset is a powerful thing.

[ChannelTwoNews]

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/gulfton-silver-line-brt-metro-buses-houston-18328694.php

"Metropolitan Transit Authority officials on Thursday approved the preferred route for a planned bus rapid transit extension into Gulfton. The line would run from the Westpark/Lower Uptown Transit Center along Westpark near Loop 610, heading west on Westpark before turning south at Chimney Rock. Dedicated lanes for the buses would then run from Chimney Rock to Gulfton to Hillcroft, where the line would end at Bissonnet.

Service would not start until 2027, under preliminary plans submitted to the Federal Transit Administration. Extending the Silver Line into Gulfton is estimated to cost $220 million, based on the plans Metro submitted to federal officials seeking grant funding for the project."