West Gray road diet

[editor]

6 hours ago, aachor said:

in neither case was I expected to show up to work in an office, hold meetings, and represent anyone other than myself. A little salt crust and body odor is perfectly acceptable trekking through a dessert canyon or touristing on the Vegas strip

You make the mistake of assuming that the people referenced were trekking, or tourists.  They were not.  They were regular commuters. 

People have been commuting by bicycle for longer than they have commuted by car.  It's possible to do it.  And if someone sweats profusely from a little bike ride, I suggest that perhaps more bike rides are in order.

I don't commute, but it's my understanding that people who cycle to work on hot days don't wear the same clothes the bike in when they go to meetings.  This was actually very common in the past.  Sometimes in movies make before 1980, you'll see a businessman pull a new shirt out of his desk drawer.  I assume that cyclists still have some similar arrangement.  

Even KHOU had a shower so that people who biked to work, or jogged during their lunch hour, or who were otherwise sweaty could rinse off. 

 

6 hours ago, aachor said:

The majority of people are earth would love an automobile with A/C.

And yet, somehow they survive without it.  I'm not sure what your point is.

[editor]

16 hours ago, goofy said:

absolutely love the people who act like Houston is so dissimilar to other cities that strategies proven elsewhere won't work here.

There seems to be this notion that Houston is the only place that is hot and humid in America.  I guess they've never been even as far as New Orleans.

[mollusk]

On 12/15/2022 at 5:11 AM, 004n063 said:

I'm not on Nextdoor, but it was not my impression that their critiques were as nuanced as that.

The only thing that Nextdoor and nuance have in common is they both start with N. 🥷

[hindesky]

I biked to work for ten years. I initially started doing it one winter to stay in shape for my road and MTB racing that I did during the rest of the year. Being a crane operator I didn't have to smell good since I was in the cab of a crane. I wore my cycling clothing and brought a change of work clothing. The next winter I started doing it year round. 22 miles round trip from south Pasadena on Fairmont Pkwy to the ship channel. I had a cycling friend who lived in Montrose who was also a racer staying in shape and commuted east bound to the chemical plant he worked at in Pasadena. He was a mechanical engineer. I would often see him early in the morning heading east bound on the same road I was going westbound on. His was a 40 mile round trip.

If the weather was bad in the morning I would drive to work but sometimes got caught in bad weather in the afternoon while heading home. I recall one winter day when it started snowing around noon and had to ride home in the snow.

Edited December 17, 2022 by hindesky

[Ross]

1 hour ago, mollusk said:

The only thing that Nextdoor and nuance have in common is they both start with N. 🥷

Most posters on Nextdoor have had a nuancectomy

[j_cuevas713]

On 12/16/2022 at 1:56 PM, goofy said:

i absolutely love the people who act like Houston is so dissimilar to other cities that strategies proven elsewhere won't work here. 

what always happens is we finally make the change and people adjust to it... like they do everywhere else! 

 

EXACTLY! The city keeps doing these pilot programs for walkability and I'm like just look at NY or Chicago as your pilot .

3 hours ago, hindesky said:

I biked to work for ten years. I initially started doing it one winter to stay in shape for my road and MTB racing that I did during the rest of the year. Being a crane operator I didn't have to smell good since I was in the cab of a crane. I wore my cycling clothing and brought a change of work clothing. The next winter I started doing it year round. 22 miles round trip from south Pasadena on Fairmont Pkwy to the ship channel. I had a cycling friend who lived in Montrose who was also a racer staying in shape and commuted east bound to the chemical plant he worked at in Pasadena. He was a mechanical engineer. I would often see him early in the morning heading east bound on the same road I was going westbound on. His was a 40 mile round trip.

If the weather was bad in the morning I would drive to work but sometimes got caught in bad weather in the afternoon while heading home. I recall one winter day when it started snowing around noon and had to ride home in the snow.

Hell yeah man, that's the grind of riding. Major props on riding 22 miles from Pasadena. I have a buddy who does that ride often. Damn 40 miles is beasty tho .

[BEES?!]

FWIW riding in the summer does legitimately suck. It’s also worth keeping in mind that some people- and I speak from personal experience- are disabled or sick and may not be able to cope with the extreme heat in the summer, so they don’t cycle or walk. Sometimes it isn’t just a matter of choice- high heat and humidity can truly be dangerous for some segments of the population. 

But I also feel like sometimes people exaggerate Houston’s heat. I think from about Mid-Oct to May we have great outdoor weather for doing things like walking and cycling. And, we don’t have to contend with unruly topography, everything is pretty flat so it’s really not so bad to cycle or walk during those nice months. 

[samagon]

On 12/14/2022 at 8:09 PM, aachor said:

This is so ridiculous. The city will take time out of the lives of thousands of drivers so that five cyclists and the pizza delivery guy don't have to choose between sharing the road with motor traffic or using the sidewalk. A better way to help cyclists would be if the police started enforcing traffic rules. Last I knew, changing lanes without signaling is a good way to kill a cyclist, and it's also against the rules. If the rules are followed, the cyclists can safely share the road.

Also, if you want to encourage people to not use their cars, maybe we should consider turning bus shelters into places where bus passengers might want to wait. Right now they're just the preferred spot for the homeless to store shopping carts of cans or for druggies to smoke crack pipes. 9 out of 10 times I pass a bus shelter, it's being occupied by someone sleeping under their personal trash heap, meanwhile the people waiting for the bus are standing in the elements.

My wife doesn't like to drive. She'd rather take public transport. But the bus situation is very unpleasant. 

Making hellish traffic more hellish is not an actual solution. It will just make living inside the loop more troublesome than it already is.

</annoyed rant> 

I don't get the rant.

W. Gray is already basically a one lane in each direction road between Taft and Montrose anyway since cars seem to be permanently parked on the side of the road between these two streets. so it's a street that goes from 1 lane in each direction, to 2 lanes in each direction, and then at Shepherd it turns into a neighborhood street with 1 lane in each direction again.

if there were enough traffic on the road, you'd think the city would have adjusted the section between Taft and Montrose to no parking, or at least set it up for no parking during peak traffic times in each direction (as is often done on other roads in the city), but they never have, so it can't be that bad.

seems like a great opportunity, and I guess it'll be a replica of what they did to Dallas between the same roads.

On 12/17/2022 at 3:30 PM, BEES?! said:

FWIW riding in the summer does legitimately suck. It’s also worth keeping in mind that some people- and I speak from personal experience- are disabled or sick and may not be able to cope with the extreme heat in the summer, so they don’t cycle or walk. Sometimes it isn’t just a matter of choice- high heat and humidity can truly be dangerous for some segments of the population. 

But I also feel like sometimes people exaggerate Houston’s heat. I think from about Mid-Oct to May we have great outdoor weather for doing things like walking and cycling. And, we don’t have to contend with unruly topography, everything is pretty flat so it’s really not so bad to cycle or walk during those nice months. 

and I'd very much agree that people exaggerate Houston weather, for half the year it is very bike-able, and even at the worst, at least the morning ride is in the 70s, or 80s, it isn't until you get into mid day, or the late afternoon that the heat becomes oppressive. 

also, acclimating yourself (and staying suitably hydrated really helps with not having heat related issues. but yes, there are some in the community that absolutely cannot deal with it, and that should be understood and respected.

Edited December 19, 2022 by samagon

[hindesky]

Plus the lanes by the curb between S. Shepherd and Montrose are in such bad shape hardly anyone drives in them anyway.

Edited December 20, 2022 by hindesky

[004n063]

On 12/19/2022 at 4:05 PM, samagon said:

I don't get the rant.

W. Gray is already basically a one lane in each direction road between Taft and Montrose anyway since cars seem to be permanently parked on the side of the road between these two streets. so it's a street that goes from 1 lane in each direction, to 2 lanes in each direction, and then at Shepherd it turns into a neighborhood street with 1 lane in each direction again.

if there were enough traffic on the road, you'd think the city would have adjusted the section between Taft and Montrose to no parking, or at least set it up for no parking during peak traffic times in each direction (as is often done on other roads in the city), but they never have, so it can't be that bad.

seems like a great opportunity, and I guess it'll be a replica of what they did to Dallas between the same roads.

and I'd very much agree that people exaggerate Houston weather, for half the year it is very bike-able, and even at the worst, at least the morning ride is in the 70s, or 80s, it isn't until you get into mid day, or the late afternoon that the heat becomes oppressive. 

also, acclimating yourself (and staying suitably hydrated really helps with not having heat related issues. but yes, there are some in the community that absolutely cannot deal with it, and that should be understood and respected.

Moreover, the point is to make biking, walking, and transit viable options, not binding commitments. If it's hot out and you'd rather drive, then drive. We just want the (safe) option to be there, because there are plenty of contexts in which the bike or the shoe-leather express may actually be the most pleasant option.

[hbg.50]

On 12/14/2022 at 8:09 PM, aachor said:

This is so ridiculous. The city will take time out of the lives of thousands of drivers so that five cyclists and the pizza delivery guy don't have to choose between sharing the road with motor traffic or using the sidewalk.

Making hellish traffic more hellish is not an actual solution.

</annoyed rant> 

I’m convinced there are federal funds (of some sort) tied to all of this city activity.  Otherwise it’s illogical.  It has to be political.

[samagon]

12 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I’m convinced there are federal funds (of some sort) tied to all of this city activity.  Otherwise it’s illogical.  It has to be political.

I wouldn't say it's political, but chances are high that the money is federal.

[j_cuevas713]

On 12/22/2022 at 9:09 PM, steve1363 said:

I’m convinced there are federal funds (of some sort) tied to all of this city activity.  Otherwise it’s illogical.  It has to be political.

Political how? If Federal funds are available to finance a project and the city has the ability to request those funds, why wouldn’t they? That goes for any other city in the country. Plus the HGAC directs a lot of the money coming in to the area and they’re mostly conservative. 

[hbg.50]

16 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Political how? If Federal funds are available to finance a project and the city has the ability to request those funds, why wouldn’t they? That goes for any other city in the country. Plus the HGAC directs a lot of the money coming in to the area and they’re mostly conservative. 

What I meant is that the federal government won’t release funds for infrastructure unless a certain % is earmarked for carbon reduction projects.

Found these articles…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/04/21/carbon-reduction-program-buttigieg/

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/president-biden-usdot-announce-new-guidance-and-64-billion-help-states-reduce-carbon

“The Carbon Reduction Program will fund a wide range of projects designed to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from on-road highway sources — from installing infrastructure to support the electrification of freight vehicles or personal cars, to constructing Bus Rapid Transit corridors, to facilitating micro-mobility and biking. Under the CRP, states must also develop carbon reduction strategies in consultation with Metropolitan Planning Organizations to identify projects and strategies tailored to reduce carbon dioxide emissions in their states, although states and localities may begin using the CRP funds even before plans are developed and reviewed.”

[004n063]

On 12/22/2022 at 10:09 PM, steve1363 said:

I’m convinced there are federal funds (of some sort) tied to all of this city activity.  Otherwise it’s illogical.  It has to be political.

I think you're probably right about the impetus being federal funding requirements, but I don't see how it is illogical. West Gray - especially the portion affected by the road diet - makes very little sense as a high-speed/high-auto-capacity roadway. It's a retail-dense, mixed-use street within a relatively dense residential area; it effectively ends at Shepherd already, and Allen Parkway is a much better downtownward option for drivers.

The road diet - particularly during the construction phase - will make it an unappealing choice for through-traffic, to be sure. But that's kind of the point. 

[hbg.50]

2 hours ago, 004n063 said:

I think you're probably right about the impetus being federal funding requirements, but I don't see how it is illogical. West Gray - especially the portion affected by the road diet - makes very little sense as a high-speed/high-auto-capacity roadway. It's a retail-dense, mixed-use street within a relatively dense residential area; it effectively ends at Shepherd already, and Allen Parkway is a much better downtownward option for drivers.

The road diet - particularly during the construction phase - will make it an unappealing choice for through-traffic, to be sure. But that's kind of the point. 

I meant illogical in the sense that it is not demand-driven.   I guess it depends on the stated objectives of the project.

[004n063]

2 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I meant illogical in the sense that it is not demand-driven.   I guess it depends on the stated objectives of the project.

Yeah, I think we're several rounds of road diets, streetfront redevelopments, etc., away from any of that stuff being driven by presently/concurrently visible demand. But, to borrow a cliché, you don't cancel a bridge project because not enough people are currently swimming across.

[j_cuevas713]

On 12/28/2022 at 12:05 PM, steve1363 said:

I meant illogical in the sense that it is not demand-driven.   I guess it depends on the stated objectives of the project.

How is it no demand driven? The demand the past 10 years has been people wanting a more vibrant, urban, walkable pedestrian realm. Most of our streets are well overbuilt. So it’s logical in more than one aspect to return the street back to it designed purpose as a neighborhood street, not some thoroughfare hybrid. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by j_cuevas713

[004n063]

3 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

How is it no demand driven? The demand the past 10 years has been people wanting a more vibrant, urban, walkable pedestrian realm. Most of our streets are well overbuilt. So it’s logical in more than one aspect to return the street back to it designed purpose as a neighborhood street, not some thoroughfare hybrid. 

Ehh, I think Steve is right in the sense that we are presuming (defensibly, I would argue, but still presuming) a certain amount of latent demand for pedestrian and particularly bicycle access that's not really observable right now in the traffic patterns on West Gray. I think that's a fair assessment. This is Houston, after all - "commercial corridor" and "multilane stroad" have lodged a certain synonymity in the public consciousness here.

Personally, though, I'm glad that the city is taking on a more intentional role here, and I hope that the trend accelerates. Car-dependent sprawl (of which I am obviously not a fan) is a bit like a moving walkway: if you don't actively work against it, it'll just get worse and worse. But since Houston has already allowed it to progress as far as it has, I suspect that a lot of (what I would personally call) wise decisions will feel illogical and disconnected for a while.