Houston's Own Grand Central Station-Downtown Transit Hub

[cosmo]

Hello to all and am back again after having read the great responses and responses to the responses...I cannot input statistics as my time does not allow for this research however my input is based on my experience and love of the urban core of Houston as I feel this core is very unique in the U.S. We have a grid system of streets that measures about a 1mile in width by 7 miles long....proportionately similar to Manhattan from our downtown to Reliant Park and when this corridor is attached to a San Fransisco type city configuration going west, we end up with a city that's about 10 by 6 miles ...for our dynamic core ...We have 3.5 downtown areas , if you include Greenway Plaza and have several distinct urban areas of interest within the core...historical district , theatre district , museum district , hopefully 2 shopping districts if the Pavillions and Foley's/Macy's works out along with the Galleria etc. My hope for the downtown area is always that the wasteland that is south downtown will someday have a future but speculative real estate prices seem to prohibit that. Midtown is ripe for development that has yet to occur. We love Houston ..but how to convince other people to love this core and how to convince visitors to move here or how to convince businesses to move to this core is a different animal. My particular point in this discussion of the Grand Central Hub terminal as it interfaces with the Hardy Rail Yard development is that in order to bring a critical mass of people to the downtown area and midtown , point being , to make our city a real urban city , I feel that it would be necessary to not have a bus facility that would be connected to an integral part of the public transportation system. There will probably always be a need for intercity bus transporation , vis a vis Greyhound but I don't feel that that is an element of transportation that furthers the cause of city's healthy development ,low income, middle income , upper income not withstanding. I keep harping on this point because for what little benefit a bus company ,,Greyhound bus lines or any commercial bus line brings the area that it is located at , I see a downward spiral for that particular area of town due to the demographic peoples it attracts. If it weren't so and developers felt that locating their businesses next to a bus station would be a fantastic asset to their location then we should have all kinds of infrastructure and amenities ; buildings , condos , restaurants etc next to this bus station. As it is , no business is going to want to locate themselves next to a bus station .....period.....so why should a potential catalyst to the downtown area, the Hardy Rail Yards be any different...... That is my point............. Please don't tell me about how this does not represent the indigenous population or the reality of the population or how one is being elitist. This dynamic core of Houston must compete with other urban areas of Texas and the U.S and from what I see/read/talk about...not just with my aunties and uncles but with my business associates and clients. Houston is and has been falling behind in attracting a demographic of people and business that Austin, Dallas , Atlanta, Seattle seem to have no problem attracting. Houston is at a disadvantage from the get go in that it is not an intrinsically geographically pretty city as is Austin or Atlanta or Seattle, however with a little motivation and pruning we could be a very beautiful city ...ie Herman Park corridor, Memorial Parkway the possible Buffalo Bayou Park developement or see what Moody Gardens can do to convince . But a bus station in the new Grand Central Hub? Please reconsider this.

[musicman]

I feel that it would be necessary to not have a bus facility that would be connected to an integral part of the public transportation system. There will probably always be a need for intercity bus transporation , vis a vis Greyhound but I don't feel that that is an element of transportation that furthers the cause of city's healthy development ,low income, middle income , upper income not withstanding. I keep harping on this point because for what little benefit a bus company ,,Greyhound bus lines or any commercial bus line brings the area that it is located at , I see a downward spiral for that particular area of town due to the demographic peoples it attracts. If it weren't so and developers felt that locating their businesses next to a bus station would be a fantastic asset to their location then we should have all kinds of infrastructure and amenities ; buildings , condos , restaurants etc next to this bus station. As it is , no business is going to want to locate themselves next to a bus station .....period.....so why should a potential catalyst to the downtown area, the Hardy Rail Yards be any different...... That is my point.

When METRO designed the first line, it was a requirement to have a LRT station near the Greyhound station specifically.

[RedScare]

...I feel that it would be necessary to not have a bus facility that would be connected to an integral part of the public transportation system. There will probably always be a need for intercity bus transporation , vis a vis Greyhound but I don't feel that that is an element of transportation that furthers the cause of city's healthy development ,low income, middle income , upper income not withstanding.

But a bus station in the new Grand Central Hub? Please reconsider this.

Yes, let's build an intermodal transportation hub, but don't link it to all of the transportation options. Why? Because I don't use that form of transportation.

Makes sense to me. Let's consider getting rid of lower priced hotels and outlet malls, too.

Cosmo, I would respond more, but I cannot figure out a way to do so without calling you elitist, etc. So, I'll just have to leave it at the obvious...Intermodal facilities serve all forms of transportation and all types of citizens. That's the definition of Intermodal.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Yes, let's build an intermodal transportation hub, but don't link it to all of the transportation options. Why? Because I don't use that form of transportation.

Makes sense to me. Let's consider getting rid of lower priced hotels and outlet malls, too.

Cosmo, I would respond more, but I cannot figure out a way to do so without calling you elitist, etc. So, I'll just have to leave it at the obvious...Intermodal facilities serve all forms of transportation and all types of citizens. That's the definition of Intermodal.

OYE OYE OYE!!! Rizpekt 2 Redscare!

Why would we have a central hub if Greyhound and Metro wouldn't have a bus terminal? It would be a completely useless project, yo. What else would U expect the project to be a hub to? Light Rail?!

[nmainguy]

But a bus station in the new Grand Central Hub? Please reconsider this.

I don't see an Intermodal fall into disuse if a Greyhound station isn't included.

In fact, I can't imagine an Intermodal without a Greyhound station.

[is this conversation over or are we doomed to have it drag out to infinity?]

Edited August 9, 2006 by nmainguy

[DJ V Lawrence]

I don't see an Intermodal fall into disuse if a Greyhound station isn't included.

In fact, I can't imagine an Intermodal without a Greyhound station.

[is this conversation over or are we doomed to have it drag out to infinity?]

I think a legitimate question is this: What do you think wil happen to the current Greyhound site? Could it be a high-rise, or do you think it will be another strip center?

[TheNiche]

I think a legitimate question is this: What do you think wil happen to the current Greyhound site? Could it be a high-rise, or do you think it will be another strip center?

Abandonment until after Central Square gets redeveloped. Possibly for a good long while afterward.

[Guest Plastic]

I just wanna know, will there be nightclubs.

[312]

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/disp/story...nt/3599661.html

Should be an interesting project. Curious as to if it will become a reality...

No such article.

[2112]

I like the intermodal terminal idea. It seems logical to have long haul transit such as the planned commuter trains, Amtrak, and the others, combined with local busses and local light rail. It ties many transit options together in one, hopefully impressive site. The bus termianal that I think is a good model is NYC's Port Authorityh Bus Terminal (PABT). That place is pretty impressive, and they cleaneup up the vagrant situation years ago by doing little things, like not having bences. Yea, it was kinda pain waiting around in there with no place to sit. But this shouldnt be a hang out place anyways. There were also lots of shops and restaurants in there. Anyways, the place was pretty iimpressive. And then, add the commuter station functions like Penn and Grand Central, and combine the whole thing together. Makes sense to me.

[bkjones98]

While I certainly appreciate your input, I have to advice people in this forum to refrain from using the "wall of words." For, one it is completely exhausting to the eyes, and discourages some people from even reading it. Secondly, the use of paragraph breaks allows a reader the opportunity to rest and evaluate the point of the preceding paragraph. In addition, it conveys a train of thought and logic, as opposed to the appearance of mere ramblings.

I am not attempting to call you out, or to play school teacher. I just think that the great arguments and information on this forum are sometimes lost in the minutia of large blocks of text.

My two cents.

Hello to all and am back again after having read the great responses and responses to the responses...I cannot input statistics as my time does not allow for this research however my input is based on my experience and love of the urban core of Houston as I feel this core is very unique in the U.S. We have a grid system of streets that measures about a 1mile in width by 7 miles long....proportionately similar to Manhattan from our downtown to Reliant Park and when this corridor is attached to a San Fransisco type city configuration going west, we end up with a city that's about 10 by 6 miles ...for our dynamic core ...We have 3.5 downtown areas , if you include Greenway Plaza and have several distinct urban areas of interest within the core...historical district , theatre district , museum district , hopefully 2 shopping districts if the Pavillions and Foley's/Macy's works out along with the Galleria etc. My hope for the downtown area is always that the wasteland that is south downtown will someday have a future but speculative real estate prices seem to prohibit that. Midtown is ripe for development that has yet to occur. We love Houston ..but how to convince other people to love this core and how to convince visitors to move here or how to convince businesses to move to this core is a different animal. My particular point in this discussion of the Grand Central Hub terminal as it interfaces with the Hardy Rail Yard development is that in order to bring a critical mass of people to the downtown area and midtown , point being , to make our city a real urban city , I feel that it would be necessary to not have a bus facility that would be connected to an integral part of the public transportation system. There will probably always be a need for intercity bus transporation , vis a vis Greyhound but I don't feel that that is an element of transportation that furthers the cause of city's healthy development ,low income, middle income , upper income not withstanding. I keep harping on this point because for what little benefit a bus company ,,Greyhound bus lines or any commercial bus line brings the area that it is located at , I see a downward spiral for that particular area of town due to the demographic peoples it attracts. If it weren't so and developers felt that locating their businesses next to a bus station would be a fantastic asset to their location then we should have all kinds of infrastructure and amenities ; buildings , condos , restaurants etc next to this bus station. As it is , no business is going to want to locate themselves next to a bus station .....period.....so why should a potential catalyst to the downtown area, the Hardy Rail Yards be any different...... That is my point............. Please don't tell me about how this does not represent the indigenous population or the reality of the population or how one is being elitist. This dynamic core of Houston must compete with other urban areas of Texas and the U.S and from what I see/read/talk about...not just with my aunties and uncles but with my business associates and clients. Houston is and has been falling behind in attracting a demographic of people and business that Austin, Dallas , Atlanta, Seattle seem to have no problem attracting. Houston is at a disadvantage from the get go in that it is not an intrinsically geographically pretty city as is Austin or Atlanta or Seattle, however with a little motivation and pruning we could be a very beautiful city ...ie Herman Park corridor, Memorial Parkway the possible Buffalo Bayou Park developement or see what Moody Gardens can do to convince . But a bus station in the new Grand Central Hub? Please reconsider this.

Edited August 31, 2006 by bkjones98

[DaTrain]

Bell might be a waste now, but the station is needed for future growth.

In addition to servicing the Toyota Center and STCL... It appears to be a block closer to the future Pavillions than the Main Street Square exit.

One hopes the pavillions will bring about other development to the southeast in the endless sea of parkinglots on that side of downtown.

It would have been bad planning to not have the Bell station and go 10 blocks without a station to service an area with that much potential.

Even if Bell Station is needed for future growth, the buttfaces need to reneg on having that station open from 5 AM to Midnight like everybody else on the METRORail line because rail transit stations cost money to keep open. Factor in the amount of people and the number of ticket sales at the TVMs and the time of the day the station is used. Then METRO can consider closing the Bell Street Station all other hours of the day and have it open only during rush hour for Exxon workers to commute to and from, and keep it closed even on the weekend until the Rockets have their home games at Toyota Center. Until the Pavillions get built, Bell is better off being closed middays and I don't give a damn if ppl complain about the trains buzzing by and not pickin ppl up, just walk to DTC or MSS! At least it woun't be embarassing to the rail ssytem to have at least an abandoned rail station for once.

I also suggest Smithlands be closed middays too because that station is so private that TMC workers use that station to park their cars near during rush hour. It's pointless for Smithlands to be open on weekends too cuz nodoby uses that station that time.

Edited August 31, 2006 by DaTrain

[RedScare]

Even if Bell Station is needed for future growth, the buttfaces need to reneg on having that station open from 5 AM to Midnight like everybody else on the METRORail line because rail transit stations cost money to keep open.

Say, Train, how much do you figure it costs to keep a 150 foot long hunk of unattended concrete open?

Just curious.

[WesternGulf]

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but what is the need to go through the trouble of closing Bell anyway? Stopping there probably sets you back a minute at the most.

[2112]

Say, Train, how much do you figure it costs to keep a 150 foot long hunk of unattended concrete open?

Just curious.

OMG!! I could 'ntstop laughing after reading this!

I have no life...I actually went surfing for old threads...like this one....because...well...I'm a loser. But anyways, thanks for the laugh.

[2112 resumes his nightly banging of head against wall]

Edited November 3, 2006 by 2112

[Montrose1100]

Say, Train, how much do you figure it costs to keep a 150 foot long hunk of unattended concrete open?

Just curious.

I hear its astronomical! Think of the electricity bill for the blinking sign, and ticket machine! TICKET MACHINE!

My god, thats almost as high as the estimated amount of money it would take for someone to light up our skyline at night.

Even though they're all ranking up the Fortune 500 list, they still don't make nearly enough profit to even consider it.